| --- Log opened Tue Mar 17 00:00:38 2015 |
| 01:05 | <@froztbyte> | I could swear I once saw some kind of trampolining thing |
| 01:05 | <@froztbyte> | which allowed you to just drop ISOs on storage and then load the trampoline from syslinux |
| 01:05 | <@froztbyte> | to boot to any of them |
| 01:05 | <@froztbyte> | damned if I remember what it is though |
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| 01:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | froztbyte: there's memdisk, but that only works until the system being loaded stops using int 0x13 to access the disc |
| 01:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which means most modern OSes will die halfway through booting |
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| 12:29 | <@Tarinaky> | "I would get rid of inheritance tax," Nigel Farage declares. In areas like London, he adds, "this would be the only way anybody could get on the property ladder." |
| 12:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Have... What... |
| 12:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Has reality just gone into pure parody? |
| 12:30 | <@TheWatcher> | UKIP = U Know It's Parody~ |
| 12:31 | <@Tarinaky> | "What I want to see is the minimum wage being the exception and not the rule," Nigel Farage adds. "You do that by stopping this unmitigated flow [of migrants]." |
| 12:31 | <@TheWatcher> | Horay, logic |
| 12:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Shame he wouldn't know it if you hit him with it. |
| 12:33 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm sure he recognises the distinction between being beaten with a stick and not being beaten with a stick. |
| 12:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Which I'm informed is enough to teach classical logic. |
| 12:33 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm. I dunno. I'd love to test that out, though. |
| 12:33 | <@TheWatcher> | Especially if I could put a rusty nail or two in it. |
| 12:41 | < abudhabi> | Nothing wrong with removing inheritance tax. |
| 12:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, aside from the fact it generates a lot of revenue, doesn't unfairly penalize the poor and public services are slashed or chronically underfunded. |
| 12:44 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyway, it wasn't the abolition of inheritance tax I was objecting to. |
| 12:44 | < abudhabi> | It only unfairly penalizes anyone it touches. |
| 12:44 | <@Tarinaky> | It was the "because the only way anyone can live in London is if they inherit a house" part. |
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| 13:38 | <@Tarinaky> | So. To actually ask something relevant to the title. |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | When implementing an EA, how do you map the original problem onto a solution chromosome? |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Most of the stuff I've seen seem to kinda skip that step. |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | When it strikes me as being the most important. |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | EA => Evolutionary Algorithm |
| 13:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | It depends on the problem. |
| 13:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | For GAs, it always boils down to "find some way of expressing the solution as a sequence of numbers" |
| 13:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | For GP, you generally use an AST and mutate that, although there are variations. |
| 13:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: what's the problem at hand, and what sort of EA are you using? |
| 13:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Hmm... I've been looking at a bunch of articles on using GA to optimise 4X Game AIs. |
| 13:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | (disclaimer: I've only done toy GA stuff for school, and only read about GP) |
| 13:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | (the most complicated thing I've done with this is using GA to tune ACO) |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | I did my AI modules as an Undergrad. |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | Which involved lectures on GA and a vague mention that GP was a thing that you could do with it. |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | But I;'ve not even done toy GA stuff. |
| 13:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. We had an undergrad course on "computational intelligence" which included implementing various EA and swarm algorithms. |
| 14:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | I still have the code lying around somewhere. |
| 14:08 | <@Tarinaky> | Note to self: attempt to implement Countdown arithmetic problem solver using GP. |
| 14:09 | <@Tarinaky> | (In a game show called countdown one of the rounds involves being given a number of random integers, a 'goal' integer and the task of finding a sum that transforms the input integers to the goal integer) |
| 14:10 | <@Tarinaky> | (By adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing combinations of the input integers with each input used only once) |
| 14:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Although that's not a very good application :/ |
| 14:17 | <@Tarinaky> | idk ignore me. |
| 14:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Each input used at most once, or exactly once? |
| 14:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | And is the order fixed? |
| 14:20 | <@Tarinaky> | At most. |
| 14:20 | <@Tarinaky> | Any order. |
| 14:21 | | * ToxicFrog comes up with two different chromosome representations for that |
| 14:21 | <@Tarinaky> | Go for it. |
| 14:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | R1: each gene corresponds to a single number; different alleles specify where it appears in the sequence and what operator is used. Fixed length; a special sequence number indicates "don't use this number" |
| 14:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | R2: each gene corresponds to a single operation; different alleles specify which input and operator are used. |
| 14:28 | <@Tarinaky> | You can use operations more than once. |
| 14:28 | <@Tarinaky> | How do you handle paranthesis? |
| 14:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Operation, not operator. In R2 the gene comes out as a sequence of instructions: add this number, then subtract this one, then multiply by this one... |
| 14:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | s/gene/chromosome/ |
| 14:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Ahhh~ |
| 14:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I don't think either can handle parens, though. |
| 14:30 | <@Tarinaky> | Wikipedia says you can use a tree structure as your genes. |
| 14:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | The easy way out is to ditch bitstring chromosomes entirely and use an AST instead, a la GP |
| 14:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah, yeah. |
| 14:44 | < abudhabi> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yata2U5GZWA |
| 14:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Description? |
| 14:46 | < abudhabi> | JPEG Degradation. |
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| 18:24 | < kourbou> | Hi. :P |
| 18:33 | <@Shiz> | when did AverageJoe get here |
| 18:33 | <@Shiz> | :o |
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| 19:19 | < AverageJoe> | Shiz, I been jere for like ever |
| 19:20 | <@Shiz> | lol |
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| 19:36 | <@Wizard> | Shiz: I think I invited him here before you |
| 19:37 | <@Shiz> | ah |
| 19:38 | | * Thalass|afk eyes Jasper, wonders if it can be used to replace google now. |
| 19:48 | < Thalass|afk> | Though if you're sending audio to raspberry pi over the network and doing searches from there you might as well install it on your phone. |
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| 20:59 | <@AverageJoe> | hes right. <3 Wizard |
| 20:59 | < Thalass|afk> | Hey there Joe |
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| 20:59 | <@AverageJoe> | hi |
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| 22:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyone want to have a giggle at one of the first computer programs I ever wrote? |
| 22:36 | < abudhabi> | I'll have a giggle, mate. |
| 22:36 | <@Tarinaky> | https://github.com/Tarinaky/Homebrew-RPGs/blob/master/ironsoul/really%20old/thir dgatehelper.cpp |
| 22:39 | < abudhabi> | Why is the indentation so messed up? |
| 22:40 | < abudhabi> | Also, are you using Hungarian notation? |
| 22:40 | <@Tarinaky> | Not any more. |
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| 22:53 | | * TheWatcher blinks |
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| 22:53 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm actually impressed that you still have the code for one of the first programs you wrote. |
| 22:54 | <@Tarinaky> | I just found it. |
| 22:54 | <@Tarinaky> | I was going through all of the homebrew RPGs I wrote back in my late teens |
| 22:55 | <@TheWatcher> | I don't have the code for anything I wrote before 1997 or so. |
| 22:55 | <@Tarinaky> | This was... more recent than that |
| 22:55 | | * Tarinaky is yoooooung. |
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| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | The oldest chunk of code I have that I'll admit to is from 1995. |
| 22:57 | <&McMartin> | (I have older, but it's 8-year-old-playing-with-BASIC level and of no interest to anyone except as a science experiment in data preservation) |
| 22:57 | | * McMartin ported it from custom VGA framebuffer to SDL back in '01. |
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| 22:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I think I was something like 15 :/ |
| 22:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is really embaressing |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | That's about when the code I'd admit to is from |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | But by then I and my crew were fairly badass, so~ |
| 22:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I never got as far as code when I was 8. |
| 23:00 | <&McMartin> | Writing our own keyboard handling interrupts in MS-DOS, directly hacking the VGA framebuffer for sprite graphics etc |
| 23:00 | <@Tarinaky> | I was too busy trying to work out why renaming the .java file to .class didn't work. |
| 23:00 | <&McMartin> | So, I, being a greybeard, hail from the era that when I was a youth the way you got a computer to do *anything* was by interacting with the BASIC interpreter burned into its ROM |
| 23:01 | | * Thalass hands McM a cane to shake at the rest of us |
| 23:02 | <&McMartin> | But by '95 most of the techniques you used to get MS-DOS to really sing were readily available even to curious teenagers |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | So we built our own graphics tools and sprite engine from the ground up and made a little shooting game |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | Sadly, while I do still have the reference materials, I've lost the skills I'd need to really make it work |
| 23:06 | | * Alek fondly remembers putting together a couple of assembly programs, published somewhere, to soft-boot and power down his DOS machine. |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | ... and I'm not sure I have a compiler that will let me mix C and 16-bit x86 asm anymore |
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| 23:08 | <@Alek> | iirc, I had a batch to run one game, which ran a font TSR that changed the system font but did not change it back after exiting, and the soft-boot after it to refresh the system font. |
| 23:08 | <@Alek> | the fun part about the font TSR - it changed the system font everywhere, including in Word, and in the printer. |
| 23:08 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 23:09 | <@Alek> | I had fun using it separately, too. |
| 23:09 | <&McMartin> | It stands to reason that this would work, but I don't recall how to do it |
| 23:09 | <&McMartin> | I only did that trick on the C64, which is where the tilegraphics tended to come from. |
| 23:21 | <@gnolam> | abudhabi: still in Norway? If so, any aurora? |
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| --- Log closed Wed Mar 18 00:00:54 2015 |