| --- Log opened Sun Apr 20 00:00:17 2014 |
| 00:22 | | Mantisking [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-rg9mk7.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:54 | | Ced23Ric [me@Nightstar-m3oect.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 09:07 | | Ced23Ric [me@Nightstar-m3oect.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 09:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh hai. |
| 16:39 | | JPRoth1980 [JPRoth1980@Nightstar-gdf.fnd.107.107.IP] has joined #mf0 |
| 16:40 | | JPRoth1980 [JPRoth1980@Nightstar-gdf.fnd.107.107.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 19:58 | | Soren [Soren@Nightstar-o43pp7.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 20:19 | < Soren> | *poke* |
| 20:19 | < Soren> | Is it alive? |
| 20:19 | < FlakManiak> | I am. |
| 20:19 | < Soren> | Yay! |
| 20:20 | < FlakManiak> | I managed to post three companies last night, all Chubs of various sorts. |
| 20:20 | < Soren> | Iām enjoying your orange Chubs, yeah. |
| 20:23 | < FlakManiak> | I still need to photograph my grey caped guys and post those up. Then I'll have posted all eleven of my frame companies. |
| 20:23 | < FlakManiak> | I guess I also need to photograph my terrain. |
| 20:23 | < Soren> | Excellent. |
| 20:25 | < FlakManiak> | (And my two one-off frames which are long overdue for it. Well I have photos of one but I'm not sure they're good enough, and I want to post the other one first anyway.) |
| 20:26 | < FlakManiak> | Also I might be able to make a game happen soon. |
| 20:28 | < Soren> | Oho. |
| 20:28 | < Soren> | Iām looking forward to the pictures. |
| 20:54 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh! |
| 20:54 | < Ced23Ric> | The Soren! |
| 20:54 | < Ced23Ric> | Heya. |
| 20:54 | < Ced23Ric> | I realized something today. |
| 20:54 | < Ced23Ric> | And it is somewhat simple, yet still profound. |
| 20:54 | < Ced23Ric> | Soren doesn't like digital renders of anything Lego. |
| 20:55 | < Ced23Ric> | If it's bricked up and photographed right, he'll prefer a midway build more than any highly complicated virtual built. |
| 20:55 | < Ced23Ric> | And I understand why. |
| 20:55 | < Ced23Ric> | Still, just ind of struck me today, as I was sitting over this virtual model ... |
| 20:58 | < Soren> | Iām actually just terrible at/bored by the CAD process. |
| 20:59 | < Ced23Ric> | I guess it's because I am so used to hotkeys and juggling programs. |
| 20:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, and that I have a pretty good memory what button where summons what brick in what position etc. pp. |
| 20:59 | < Ced23Ric> | See, if I had the bricks ... I'd be slower. |
| 20:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Because I cannot try out as much as fast without making a mess. |
| 21:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Whenever I build, I mae a mess of my desk and sit in a pile of started, yet abandoned connections. |
| 21:04 | < Soren> | Everyone has their own process. |
| 21:05 | < Ced23Ric> | Would you say that touching the bricks helps you? |
| 21:05 | < Soren> | Yeah, most times. |
| 21:06 | < Ced23Ric> | My problem was, when I started in brick mode (over CAD mode), I kind of looked at my parts and didn't have any inspiration coming. |
| 21:06 | < Ced23Ric> | I have little to no knowledge/experience when it comes to microscale spaceships. |
| 21:06 | < Soren> | Also, until fairly recently, there were a lot of connections you could pull off in the real world that donāt work/take hours of fiddling in CAD. |
| 21:06 | < Ced23Ric> | 75% of what I find aesthetic in microscale ships is from your FlickR and others spreading off from there. |
| 21:07 | < Soren> | Well, itās a start. |
| 21:07 | < Ced23Ric> | True, although I am sometimes wary of some connections. They may fit for posing purposes, but might not survive game handling, y'know? |
| 21:07 | < Soren> | You should check out this guy: https://www.flickr.com/photos/47881312@N04/ |
| 21:07 | < Soren> | Yeah, i donāt worry so much about that normally, although i did for the official ships. |
| 21:09 | < Ced23Ric> | Lemme see. |
| 21:09 | < Ced23Ric> | ... is he using rubber bands to sculpt cockpits..? |
| 21:10 | < Ced23Ric> | Okay. |
| 21:10 | < Soren> | Yep. |
| 21:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Facing the danger that I may sound unwarrantedly irrate, but is he serious about this "Customs Corvette"Ć |
| 21:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Because that's intense. |
| 21:11 | < Soren> | Apparently he is, yes. |
| 21:13 | < Ced23Ric> | Heh. He likes himself some Modulex here and there. |
| 21:13 | < Ced23Ric> | Did you ever venture further with those? |
| 21:14 | < Soren> | Still have āem, still want to use āem. |
| 21:14 | < Soren> | ITās just hard tomake them connect to things. |
| 21:15 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, how do they connect, if I may ask? |
| 21:15 | < Soren> | Luck, magic, brute force. |
| 21:15 | < Soren> | Usually all three. |
| 21:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Uhm. |
| 21:16 | < Ced23Ric> | I meant ... what is the connector it is looking for? |
| 21:17 | < Soren> | Nothing, officially. You have to try orifices and protrusions until they fit. |
| 21:17 | < Soren> | 2x2 Modulex tiles fit loosely over 1x1 bricks. |
| 21:17 | < Soren> | 1x4 modulex tiles can be snapped over grille tiles. |
| 21:18 | < Soren> | If you sand down the edges, you can fit a modulex tile into the bottom of a 1x1 brick, etc. |
| 21:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, gotcha! |
| 21:18 | < Soren> | There are a few more options. |
| 21:18 | < Ced23Ric> | So you really have to make a connector prior, essentially. |
| 21:18 | < Soren> | more or less. |
| 21:19 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm. |
| 21:19 | < Ced23Ric> | Is there any specific thing you want to do with them? |
| 21:19 | < Ced23Ric> | I saw the chair you played around with. |
| 21:19 | < Soren> | They make good magazines for rifles. |
| 21:20 | < Ced23Ric> | You could probably get a nice greebling going, with 2x headlight brick, grille, and slap a bar across, for some less common shapes on the surface of something. |
| 21:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm. Got an example flying around? |
| 21:20 | < Soren> | Yup, Iāve done that. |
| 21:20 | < Soren> | maaaaaybe? |
| 21:21 | < Ced23Ric> | Weeeeeeell? |
| 21:21 | < Ced23Ric> | If not, then not. |
| 21:22 | < Ced23Ric> | But I'm always curious. |
| 21:22 | < Soren> | Not seeing it, no. |
| 21:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Building weapons can be, because they are so tiny, a bit of a bitch. They always look chunky. |
| 21:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Anime style, oversized. |
| 21:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Or 40k style. ;) |
| 21:22 | < Soren> | https://secure.flickr.com/photos/bricklovinfreakboy/57343453/in/set-1240796 hereās the lone shot I got of the connections I discovered originally. |
| 21:23 | < Soren> | I know you can fit the end of binoculars over a 1x2 Modulex brickās studs |
| 21:23 | < Soren> | But yeah, limited applicability. |
| 21:23 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm. |
| 21:23 | < Ced23Ric> | You could probably row up a few binos. |
| 21:23 | < Ced23Ric> | Maybe for the belly of a ship. |
| 21:24 | < Ced23Ric> | light grey/white upper hull, dark grey binos on the underside. |
| 21:24 | < Soren> | Probably, yeah |
| 21:24 | < Ced23Ric> | Makes for a nice ribbed loo, I'd think. |
| 21:24 | < Ced23Ric> | Like, have them face each other stud-hole to studhole, and then put 3 or 4 next too each other. |
| 21:24 | < Soren> | Mm. |
| 21:24 | < Ced23Ric> | 3 might do the trick at out scale, though. |
| 21:24 | < Ced23Ric> | *our |
| 21:25 | < Ced23Ric> | *other spelling mistakes because I got carried away. |
| 21:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm. Fieschi's ships look like if you would pick them up, they'd snap in half. |
| 21:26 | < Ced23Ric> | From the weight alone. |
| 21:26 | < Soren> | Some of mine are about that fragile. |
| 21:26 | < Soren> | Also, a lot of what heās up to would be a lot more durable scaled down. |
| 21:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, yeah. |
| 21:27 | < Ced23Ric> | But he builds them about laptop size. |
| 21:27 | < Soren> | Yep. Building for display vs. building for a game is a distinction with a lot of design implications. |
| 21:29 | < Ced23Ric> | Definately. I was just about to ask - how do you like the 12/16 stud scale? |
| 21:29 | < Ced23Ric> | I found it quite challenging. |
| 21:29 | < Soren> | Itās my spec, and I had to argue for it, so Iām pretty happy with it. |
| 21:30 | < Soren> | Joshua wanted 6/8 or so, which I thought was insane, as a design space. |
| 21:30 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh god. |
| 21:30 | < Ced23Ric> | That's TINY. |
| 21:30 | < Soren> | Thatās what i said. |
| 21:30 | < Ced23Ric> | Like, we'd all be flying around in 5 piece ships with antennas everywhere. |
| 21:30 | < Soren> | Exactly. |
| 21:30 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. No. |
| 21:30 | < Soren> | Thereās no aesthetic room there at all. |
| 21:31 | < Ced23Ric> | It's alright tight at the 12/16 scale. |
| 21:31 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 21:31 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, why 8x8 and not 10x6 when it'S 4x8 for frigates? |
| 21:32 | < Soren> | About 25/35% of this job is arguing Joshua out of doing something patently insane, I have to say. |
| 21:32 | < Ced23Ric> | Does it pay? ;) |
| 21:32 | < Soren> | Iām looking at around $5k so, yeah. |
| 21:33 | < Soren> | Iām doing more kits this time to maximize that. |
| 21:34 | < Soren> | I also live across the street from a Lego store now, by total accident, so any parts savings that can net me send a little extra straight into my pocket. |
| 21:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, how many fleets are you building anyway? |
| 21:34 | < Soren> | 16. |
| 21:34 | < Ced23Ric> | What's the size of each? |
| 21:34 | < Soren> | 12 special editions and four custom fleets. |
| 21:35 | < Soren> | three ships and two companies for each Special and probably one more ship for the Customs. |
| 21:35 | < Soren> | Also doing four single ships. |
| 21:35 | < Soren> | So itās work, but relatively easy fun work. |
| 21:35 | < Soren> | And itās not like I have to do it sober ;) |
| 21:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, no one sees you doing it anyway. |
| 21:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Are you throwing up different designs for each, or are they going to follow your shown models? |
| 21:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Except for the customs, of course. |
| 21:37 | < Soren> | Iāll be doing the models Iāve shown, just like last time. |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Got any word on what's custom yet? |
| 21:39 | < Soren> | Itās much, much easier that way. |
| 21:39 | < Soren> | Nope, havenāt talked to the backers yet. |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, I guess you have your parts lists and know how it goes together, you just need to pick colours and get crackin', eh? |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Gotcha. |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | I saw it too late or I would have been one of them. |
| 21:40 | < Soren> | Iām hoping to sell one guy on some pink-and-red Homeworldy stuff. |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | At least I got on THIS kickstarter, after I missed out on the last. |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | God, I would totally go for that. |
| 21:40 | < Soren> | Hah, yeah. |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | Or for the bright blue/bright orange with turquoise accents. |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | That was purty as fuck. |
| 21:40 | < Soren> | yeah. |
| 21:40 | < Soren> | Tht color opposition is deadly. |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | And, also, ballsy as fuck. Space combat, black best camo, but they didn't care. |
| 21:41 | < Soren> | Well, in space, camo is irrelevant. Your heat signature is too visible no matter what color you are. |
| 21:41 | < Ced23Ric> | What would it take to get one of those fleets from you - given that you'd be willing to do one on top, that is. |
| 21:41 | < Soren> | So painting yourself bright colors like a poison tree frog is the way to go. |
| 21:41 | < Soren> | Hrm. |
| 21:41 | < Ced23Ric> | True. It's probably really just fighter pilots that suffer/benefit. |
| 21:42 | < Ced23Ric> | Because everything bigger isn't gonna look at you at all - just heat/radiation sensors. |
| 21:42 | < Soren> | Well, strictly speking, fighters (in the sense of one-man zippy ships) donāt make sense in space. |
| 21:42 | < Soren> | Weāre bending plausibility. |
| 21:43 | < Soren> | But yeah, being tiny and hard to spot couldnāt hurt. |
| 21:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, that is after all just WWII dogfighter romance. |
| 21:44 | < Soren> | Yeah, more or less. |
| 21:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Just like Star Citizen, Freelancer, etc. pp. - all those games really just bank on that rule of cool. |
| 21:44 | < Ced23Ric> | A platform that lasers the shit out of you at one gajillion kilometres is just way more efficient. |
| 21:44 | < Soren> | Realistically youād probably be talking about Cherryhesque āridershipsā, which are more like corvettes. |
| 21:45 | < Ced23Ric> | And fighters would just not be able to dodge a computer calculated laser. |
| 21:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Or, withstand that attention for any reasonable time. |
| 21:45 | < Ced23Ric> | So, that is all a given. |
| 21:45 | < Ced23Ric> | But, "fun", right? ;) |
| 21:45 | < Soren> | Well, in space, thereās no need for constant thrust, so itās a straight mass-ratio calcuation. Smaller things arenāt necessarily faster, more maneuverable. |
| 21:45 | < Soren> | Yep. |
| 21:45 | < Soren> | +l |
| 21:47 | < Ced23Ric> | So, back to the sore spot. |
| 21:47 | < Ced23Ric> | Think you'd be willing - given monetary compensation - to whip up another fleet? |
| 21:48 | < Soren> | Maybe let me see how much work these are? |
| 21:48 | < Soren> | Iām already going tobe building and shipping twenty orders, here. |
| 21:48 | < Soren> | Iād hate to promise another one informally and have it get lost in the shuffle. |
| 21:50 | < Ced23Ric> | Completely fine. |
| 21:50 | < Ced23Ric> | ust so I can plan for it, what's the price tag I should keep in mind? |
| 21:50 | < Ced23Ric> | And: I'd be so down for homeworld. If none of your backers go for it, I will. ;) |
| 21:51 | < Soren> | Hmm. Well, you wouldnāt be getting a book out of it, so we can knock the price down a ways. |
| 21:52 | < Soren> | But this is a logged chat, so maybe you should email me. |
| 21:52 | < Soren> | Also easier for me to dig it up later. |
| 21:53 | < Ced23Ric> | Give me your address real quick? |
| 21:54 | < Soren> | <firstname> dot <lastname> at gmail dot com |
| 21:55 | < Ced23Ric> | Ha. Coming right up. |
| 21:57 | < Soren> | So, yeah, not opposed in principle, possibly opposed based on the tired. |
| 21:58 | < Ced23Ric> | Mail is sent. |
| 21:58 | < Soren> | Also, i want to get some larger more complex spaceships built sometime soon. I havenāt had a chance to do a really big one in a while. |
| 21:58 | < Ced23Ric> | Got the itchin'? ;) |
| 21:58 | < Ced23Ric> | I think I need to start looking into terrain. |
| 21:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Are there the same rules for cover as in RA? By which I mean, can you blast cover to bits, so it should be sturdy if I want it to be? |
| 21:59 | < Soren> | Yeah, I do, and oh hey, I made some neat terrain for demoing lately. |
| 21:59 | < Soren> | Yeah, should be. |
| 21:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Or is cover solid, and I can just crop up some rocks and stuff? |
| 21:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Got pictures of that terrain? |
| 21:59 | < Soren> | I am a big fan of blowing up asteroids. |
| 21:59 | < Soren> | I have a CAD file! |
| 21:59 | < Soren> | Itās stackable. |
| 22:00 | < Ced23Ric> | AutoCAD, LDraw, MLCad, LDD? |
| 22:00 | < Soren> | LDraw. |
| 22:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Guess I need to go get that, then. |
| 22:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Or you send me a screenshot. |
| 22:00 | < Soren> | Because of Secret Plans, I figure I need to learn to do at least basic CAD stuff. |
| 22:00 | < Soren> | I have it zipped up, Iām just replying to your email. |
| 22:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Goody. |
| 22:01 | < Ced23Ric> | Secret Plans concerning this or something else? |
| 22:01 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, did Josh ever, in the two years this has been going on, delve deeper into campaign modes? |
| 22:03 | < Soren> | Not that I know of. Heās been busy dealing with the fallout of the last one/working on this one. |
| 22:03 | < Soren> | Secret plans for something else. |
| 22:04 | < Ced23Ric> | All this aside: How are you? |
| 22:04 | < Ced23Ric> | How's your wife, the kids, the dog, the garden= |
| 22:05 | < Soren> | Julieās good, we donāt have or want kids, weāre thinking about getting a dog to compliment the evilcat, and we donāt have a garden but I would really like some more herbs for the kitchen. |
| 22:05 | < Ced23Ric> | Did I fail at transporting the partial sarcasm or did you decide to just roll with it? |
| 22:06 | < Ced23Ric> | And: Good to hear that she's alright. |
| 22:06 | < Soren> | Iām just rollinā. |
| 22:06 | < Soren> | https://twitter.com/IrinaTheCat/status/451221576411652096 Speaking of evilcat. |
| 22:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Do you get to play any of this, actually? |
| 22:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Heh. Cats do that. |
| 22:07 | < Soren> | I just got done running three Fridaysā worth of demos, actually. |
| 22:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Mine's so old, she had two vertebraes popped already. Surgery and meds and all that. Now she can barely hop on a less than knee high couch. |
| 22:08 | < Soren> | aw. |
| 22:08 | < Ced23Ric> | https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/p480x480/431847_54 6878858691689_143038987_n.jpg |
| 22:08 | < Ced23Ric> | There she is. |
| 22:08 | < Soren> | hateface! |
| 22:08 | < Ced23Ric> | She's pushing 17 years now. |
| 22:08 | < Soren> | I know that face. |
| 22:09 | < Ced23Ric> | https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/p480x480/936995_54687887 8691687_1444375198_n.jpg |
| 22:09 | < Soren> | I'm not totally sure our cat has a spine at all, sometimes. |
| 22:09 | < Soren> | https://twitter.com/IrinaTheCat/status/438902563094548480 |
| 22:10 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, they do that. |
| 22:10 | < Soren> | Ours is about three and half. She still acts like a kitten. |
| 22:10 | < Ced23Ric> | They seem to think that "s" shape is for beginners. |
| 22:10 | < Soren> | Her favorite way to get my attention is by biting my toes. |
| 22:10 | < Ced23Ric> | Ha! Sounds about right, actually. Lilly was like that up until she was 8 to 10, too. |
| 22:11 | < Ced23Ric> | But then her back got bad and, yeah. |
| 22:11 | < Soren> | We keep trying to find a toy she doesnāt want to completely obliterate. Ridiculous prey instinct. |
| 22:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Our other cat, Paula, is just a perpetually drooling cuddleslut. |
| 22:11 | < Soren> | hah. |
| 22:11 | < Soren> | Our is that as well. Sheās a schizokitty. |
| 22:12 | < Ced23Ric> | She's 15, but you don't see her age. She hides it well, because she is so lean. |
| 22:12 | < Soren> | She oscillates on some unfathomable feline peroidicity. |
| 22:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Which, of course, is because of an intestinal chronic issue. |
| 22:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Had some of her teeth pulled, too - she throws up a lot and the acid destroyed some of her chompers. |
| 22:13 | < Ced23Ric> | But she was left by her previous owners. They moved, and left the cat behind. No word to no one. |
| 22:13 | < Ced23Ric> | So my mom took her in. Neighbors across the road. |
| 22:13 | < Soren> | Aw. |
| 22:13 | < Soren> | Yeah, ours is a rescue cat as well. |
| 22:13 | < Soren> | Sheās got some serious anxiety issues that she expresses by hiding from everything. |
| 22:14 | < Ced23Ric> | I don't now, I guess they are eternally thankful, yet also eternally messed up in the head. |
| 22:14 | < Ced23Ric> | *know |
| 22:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Lemme guess - any new noise scares her, people other than you guys are a no-no? |
| 22:15 | < Soren> | Yeah. Sheās sort-of okay with some new people. |
| 22:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Does she warm up to people eventually? |
| 22:17 | < Soren> | Yeah - weāve only just settled down, though, so we donāt have a lot of people over right now. |
| 22:17 | < Soren> | She warmed up to a few people okay by the time we moved again. |
| 22:17 | < Ced23Ric> | Whereabouts are you guys now? |
| 22:17 | < Soren> | then the hateful trauma of the padded box and the airplane and all the moving and noise reset her. |
| 22:17 | < Soren> | SF Bay Area. |
| 22:18 | < Soren> | Peninsula, but itās close enough we can go into the city regularly. |
| 22:18 | < Ced23Ric> | That's West Coast, right? SF = Frisco? |
| 22:19 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 22:19 | < Ced23Ric> | So you are 10h beind me. |
| 22:19 | < Soren> | I spent a lot of time visiting, growing up, so I was familair with the area. |
| 22:19 | < Soren> | Just about. |
| 22:19 | < Ced23Ric> | It's 1:19pm, I'd guess. |
| 22:20 | < Soren> | 2:20. |
| 22:20 | < Soren> | Pretty close. |
| 22:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Just an area I've never been - I have buddies in New York state, in Canada, a good friend in Georgia (or Virgina, if she's in her other house), but that's about it. |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | So, mhmm. |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Could I build space stations, derelict ones, as cover, too? |
| 22:22 | < Soren> | Absolutely. |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | I am a bit unsure what the battlefield should look like. |
| 22:23 | < Ced23Ric> | And I'd wager that a fight in a dense ship graveyard would be a lot of cover blowing up. |
| 22:23 | < Ced23Ric> | Whereas battle in open space would be more like a shooting gallery (and a lot of slowing down...) |
| 22:23 | < Soren> | More open than RA. Joshua has made his usual noises about How Things Should be but I encourage you to ignore them if you can find ways to make a prettier battlefield. |
| 22:23 | < Ced23Ric> | What's his idea? |
| 22:24 | < Soren> | Iām tempted to make a derelict to fight over, so that should give you an idea of how much i care about having an open battlefield. |
| 22:24 | < Ced23Ric> | Because I think I'd like some destroyed complex of chained modules, partially busted open. |
| 22:24 | < Ced23Ric> | Ha. |
| 22:24 | < Ced23Ric> | We seem to ... have similar ambition there. |
| 22:24 | < Soren> | relatively little cover but more difficulty maneuvering, in rough terms. |
| 22:24 | < Ced23Ric> | Is there anything like accidentially ramming? |
| 22:25 | < Soren> | Thereās intentional ramming, too. |
| 22:25 | < Ced23Ric> | Don't make the turn, bump into the asteroid, take damage? |
| 22:25 | < Ced23Ric> | No, I mean, is cover also a danger, because collosions? |
| 22:25 | < Soren> | I canāt see why not. |
| 22:25 | < Soren> | You have to remember, I havenāt played a game yet, and the rules arenāt finished. |
| 22:26 | < Soren> | Thereās a playtest doc, but itās not up to date. |
| 22:26 | < Ced23Ric> | I really dislike the name of the ranges. |
| 22:26 | < Soren> | I have a feeling theyāre going to change eventualy. |
| 22:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, I scanned that, too. It seems to lack some essential information I had to chase down in multiple threads. |
| 22:26 | < Soren> | I know we had a quick conversation about renaming them but itās not like thought was put into them. |
| 22:27 | < Ced23Ric> | See, I just want them to have different names than RA. |
| 22:27 | < Soren> | Originally his names mandated specific weapon types for each range, and I wanted that to change for obvious reasons. |
| 22:27 | < Soren> | I forget which if the new ones were my idea and which were his. |
| 22:27 | < Ced23Ric> | Point, Close, Mid, Support sound good to me, because there's not a single letter doubled up with RA. |
| 22:28 | < Soren> | Yeah, i donāt see an issue. I like those and I can try to use them more. |
| 22:29 | < Ced23Ric> | Dogfight, Point, Assault, Support have several issues. "A" for Assaults doubles on "A" for Artillery, making it ambiguous. Point is as close as you can be, by the definiton of what point defense range is. |
| 22:29 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 22:29 | < Ced23Ric> | And Dogfight is a wonky term for a Frame hopping on a ship. |
| 22:29 | < Ced23Ric> | I get that it's also frame vs. frame. |
| 22:29 | < Soren> | Well, youāve seen a fair amount of how Joshua deals with stuff. Throw out assumptions and defend the ones that arenāt obviously stupid. |
| 22:30 | < Ced23Ric> | But, still. Point, Close, Mid, Support are clearer and will not cause some Navy vet to poop his pressed pants. |
| 22:30 | < Soren> | It has a certain charm but is often messy, inefficient, and unclear. |
| 22:30 | < Ced23Ric> | Well ... it's a quite socially involved process. The arbiter is just Josh, though. |
| 22:31 | < Ced23Ric> | Like a floor debate, where the jury is one guy. |
| 22:31 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 22:32 | < Ced23Ric> | And I do have the distinct feeling that he is, after a certain point, no longer open for input. |
| 22:32 | < Soren> | Well, itās never clear. |
| 22:32 | < Ced23Ric> | But, yes, the weapon type thing was odd. It nailed design down quite hard, which obviously likes men and provides oral favours for them. |
| 22:33 | < Soren> | He tends to stick to his ideas beyond the point of reason if he doesnāt see why they might be bad. |
| 22:33 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, he is a believer. |
| 22:33 | < Ced23Ric> | If that's an archetype of a person. |
| 22:33 | < Soren> | It is. |
| 22:34 | < Ced23Ric> | And I find it hard to argue with beliefs. |
| 22:34 | < Soren> | I find him occasionally frustrating to work with because of it. |
| 22:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Even within family, mind you. My cousin, the other day, was appalled at me calling her opinion wrong. She believes an opinion cannot be wrong. |
| 22:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Which, factually and provenly so, is incorrect. |
| 22:35 | < Soren> | Well, you also like to steamroller people. |
| 22:35 | < Soren> | Itās a trait we share. |
| 22:35 | < Ced23Ric> | You kept that in mind, eh? |
| 22:35 | < Soren> | Itās hard to forget. |
| 22:36 | < Ced23Ric> | I remember you as being more ... held back than me, though. |
| 22:36 | < Soren> | My step-sister has a tendency to fall for lots and lots of nonsensical New Age bullshit, so Iām very familiar with that dynamic. |
| 22:36 | < Ced23Ric> | I'm the type of guy who doesn't go to bed if someone is wrong on the internet. |
| 22:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, boy-o. |
| 22:36 | < Soren> | I used to be that guy. |
| 22:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, I got better. |
| 22:36 | < Soren> | I discovered that I liked sleep more than being right. |
| 22:36 | < Ced23Ric> | I start my rants but catch myself before I submit. |
| 22:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Now I just gotta stop the rants before I start typing. |
| 22:37 | < Soren> | Also, block buttons. |
| 22:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, I have some sort of pact with some undefined entity that I can only block one person per year I am alive. |
| 22:37 | < Ced23Ric> | So I blocked ... three people, so far. |
| 22:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Across all platforms. |
| 22:38 | < Soren> | But mostly it was the realization that I was playing into the hands of the kind of internet warriors who want to convince themselves theyāre badasses by starting something thatās emotionally equivalent to a fistfight without requiring the physical chops or courage you need to start actual fistfights. |
| 22:38 | < Ced23Ric> | I got into a project. A little game called "Warframe". |
| 22:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Made it into the first 1500 players for the closed Beta. |
| 22:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Became one of 5 moderators 3 months later. |
| 22:39 | < Soren> | And so they werenāt actually listening or thinking, just assigning me whatever viewpoints were convenient to keep the fight going. |
| 22:39 | < Soren> | Nice. |
| 22:39 | < Ced23Ric> | At the day of my departure, I patrolled forums holding over 500,000 accounts. |
| 22:39 | < Soren> | Oh, dear. |
| 22:39 | < Soren> | I bet I know where this is goingā¦ |
| 22:39 | < Ced23Ric> | and I did it more or less by myself. ;) |
| 22:40 | < Ced23Ric> | But I had to give up, because despite all my efforts, weekly written reports about pressing issues, abstracts of the biggest threads, I was talking to a wall when contacting the devs. |
| 22:40 | < Ced23Ric> | The PR girl sandbagged me, the devs ignored me. |
| 22:40 | < Ced23Ric> | And I watched it grow worse and worse. People, naturally, hated the omnipresent moderator who warned, cleaned, suspended and watched their shenanigans. |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | And the PR girl just said: "Well, we have it bad, too." |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | So I pointed out the little fact that she was getting paid, I wasn't. |
| 22:41 | < Soren> | Yeah, unpaid moderation is bullshit. |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | In the end, I threw down and left. Joined up the clan from 4chan a few weeks before my departure, and proceeded to win every event, regardless how shit it was. |
| 22:42 | < Ced23Ric> | But at the end of the day, I had put a lot of emotional energy into a project led by people that would shut down and clamp down and scream "LALALALALA" if you had critique. |
| 22:42 | < Soren> | I take the position that if Iām not being paid to ride herd on people, I ride herd on them by the time-honored Play Nice Or I Kick You In The Junk method |
| 22:42 | < Soren> | You know, rule by terror. |
| 22:43 | < Ced23Ric> | And that's where I finally learned that sometimes you just gotta let go and not get involved, because it's all just a waste. No one thanks you for it and you cannot show it anywhere. |
| 22:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Had a good year with that game, and felt no regrets when I left. Felt better, actually, because it wasn't on my mind anymore. |
| 22:43 | < Ced23Ric> | So I calmed down there. |
| 22:44 | < Ced23Ric> | And, yeah. I ruled by ... mechanical approach, if you will. |
| 22:44 | < Soren> | Pretty much. Any system of open contribution is extremely hard to filter. It devalues constructive contributions, and it elevates stupid people who can shout louder than anyone else. |
| 22:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Rules to the letter, treat everyone the same. |
| 22:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Which was funny, because some people thought I was shitting them when I finished warnings with "Thank you for your future cooperation". |
| 22:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Or that I was picking on them, despite being repeated offenders - which caused me to ramp up the repercussions. |
| 22:45 | < Soren> | The thing is, youāre still losing under a system like that, because even problems that you resolve quickly are still fun-time wasted. |
| 22:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Best was, PR girl comes to me: "Chris, we need to talk about the complaints against you." |
| 22:45 | < Ced23Ric> | And after two hours, she conceded that not a single complaint was valid. |
| 22:45 | < Ced23Ric> | She just didn't like that people complained about me. |
| 22:46 | < Ced23Ric> | ... which was where I explained to her that I am running this forum, bursting at the seams, by myself for 5 weeks now. |
| 22:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Naturally, if I am the only mod people see, they think I am out to get them. |
| 22:46 | < Ced23Ric> | But yeah. |
| 22:46 | < Ced23Ric> | That was a great episode to learn that you gotta let people be wrong on the internet. ;) |
| 22:47 | < Soren> | The last time I was actively in charge of anything was this: https://secure.flickr.com/groups/mechahub/discuss/72157626713306456/ |
| 22:48 | < Ced23Ric> | "2) I will drop the hammer on people who reduce the total supply of fun. " |
| 22:48 | < Ced23Ric> | Good one. |
| 22:49 | < Soren> | https://secure.flickr.com/groups/mechahub/discuss/72157626172440660/721576263115 07527/ It grew out of that OrangeKNight guy shitting up the group with petty authoritarian bullshit. |
| 22:50 | < Soren> | He was pushing people around for essentially no reason, so i spent a thread yelling at him, then asked one of the other admins (all of whom I knew quite well) to set me up as moderator. |
| 22:50 | < Ced23Ric> | Heh. |
| 22:51 | < Ced23Ric> | Power corrupts the weak. |
| 22:51 | < Soren> | But it was ultimately a waste of time, because he didnāt improve as a person, he just feared me. |
| 22:52 | < Ced23Ric> | "Let them hate as long as they fear." - Calligula. |
| 22:53 | < Soren> | Itās more like the realization that asshole son the internet make poor chew toys. |
| 22:53 | < Soren> | assholes on* |
| 22:53 | < Soren> | TYPO FROM HELL DAY IS UPON US |
| 22:54 | < Ced23Ric> | Asshole son. |
| 22:54 | | * Ced23Ric nods slowly. |
| 22:54 | < Soren> | Ah, hereās the yelling. |
| 22:54 | < Soren> | Boy, I did a lot of yelling at this guy. |
| 22:54 | < Ced23Ric> | Ha. Show. |
| 22:55 | < Soren> | https://secure.flickr.com/groups/mechahub/discuss/72157626485888124/721576265537 52563/ |
| 22:55 | < Soren> | Iām sure thereās more from there. |
| 22:55 | < Ced23Ric> | Perry Rhodan has ruined me for spaceship design. "Sphere's are the most space efficient design, so all is spheres!" - how boring. |
| 22:56 | < Ced23Ric> | @discussion: I like how that's grown men pissing at each other's legs about lego robots. |
| 22:59 | < Soren> | The thing is, i didnāt even originally want to get involved. |
| 22:59 | < Soren> | Itās just that nobody was doing anything about his bullshit. |
| 22:59 | < Soren> | https://www.flickr.com/groups/mechahub/discuss/72157626679304706/721576265880115 85/ See more yelling here. |
| 22:59 | < Soren> | I think I eventually ended up banning him after seeing him shit up someone elseās group and realizing he hadnāt changed. |
| 22:59 | < Soren> | Now I yell at stupid people much less. i just ban them without appeal. |
| 23:01 | < Soren> | Because any time I have to yell at someone, I count that as a loss. |
| 23:04 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm, true. |
| 23:04 | < Ced23Ric> | It means that reason has failed to convey intentions and make a difference. |
| 23:04 | < Ced23Ric> | At that point, if you can remove that person, might aswell. |
| 23:05 | < Soren> | Not just that, but it makes the overall environment a littl ebit more toxic. |
| 23:09 | < Ced23Ric> | It spills, yeah. |
| 23:09 | < Ced23Ric> | I am looking at homeworld 1 ships right now. |
| 23:09 | < Ced23Ric> | Maybe finding some inspiration there. |
| 23:10 | < Ced23Ric> | But with the low poly count, it's essentially all just cigarette boxes with rounded corners. |
| 23:10 | < Soren> | Well, not all but a lot, yeah. |
| 23:12 | < Soren> | I had something more like http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/v_corvette4.htm or http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/v_destroyer.htm in mind |
| 23:12 | < Ced23Ric> | I 'm wondering if the 12/16 would allow for some more vertical ships ... |
| 23:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, yeah, I was in the HW1 section. |
| 23:12 | < Ced23Ric> | HW2 is a different beast. |
| 23:13 | < Ced23Ric> | I remember when I came from 1 and played 2, I was blown away by the difference. |
| 23:13 | < Soren> | Vertical designs would be pretty easy. |
| 23:13 | < Soren> | They might be wobbly, but thatās easy to correct with a sturdy base. |
| 23:14 | < Soren> | Iām interested to see what the remakes do in the way of prettying up the original. |
| 23:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, I am waiting for that myself. |
| 23:14 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/somtaaw/carrier.htm |
| 23:14 | < Ced23Ric> | See? It's a rounded box. |
| 23:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Cataclysm. |
| 23:15 | < Soren> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/taiidan/assault_frigate.htm Iām a fan of this chunky bastard, myself. |
| 23:15 | < Ced23Ric> | PS: Did you look up my pledge level or how'd you figure? |
| 23:16 | < Soren> | I canāt look up anyoneās pledge level. I guessed. |
| 23:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Ugh, the horn and the fat ass doesn't do it for me. |
| 23:16 | < Ced23Ric> | The gun arrangement has merit. |
| 23:16 | < Soren> | Yeah, Iām not married to the rest of the design, but I like the horn and the guns. |
| 23:17 | < Ced23Ric> | "DECALS, including three sheets of airlocks, numbers, sensors, hull patches, mobile frame details, and a bunch of surprises! Also includes the FULL BOOK, the PATCH, and the in-process PDFs." |
| 23:17 | < Ced23Ric> | I got that one. |
| 23:17 | < Soren> | Okay. |
| 23:18 | < Soren> | Man, I forgot how much I liked the missile destroyer designs. |
| 23:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Honestly, I don't even care for the full book, because I find Josh's typesetting and use of space atrocious, but I want those decals. ;) |
| 23:19 | < Soren> | Theyāre very pretty books, but perhaps not the best for flipping through when you need a rule. |
| 23:19 | < Soren> | well, Iām going to be designing more of them, so Iām glad. |
| 23:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. I am used to ... efficient books. |
| 23:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Can't hide my German-ness. |
| 23:20 | < Soren> | We wouldnāt ask you to. |
| 23:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Once the rules are set in stone, I'll probably whip up some new quick reference sheets. |
| 23:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Make them prettier this time. |
| 23:22 | < Soren> | Itās never a bad idea. |
| 23:22 | < Ced23Ric> | If you want to throw some assets for that my way, would be great. |
| 23:22 | < Soren> | I could, sure. |
| 23:22 | < Soren> | Once we know roughly what those assets are. |
| 23:22 | < Ced23Ric> | The company sheets I made made my games with my non-tabletop gaming roomie a breeze. |
| 23:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Of course. |
| 23:24 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?demo_berserkfury_Elite_Gun ship.jpg |
| 23:24 | < Ced23Ric> | Loving that aggressive shape. |
| 23:25 | < Ced23Ric> | Here, this is what I meant with vertical ships. |
| 23:25 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?e3gs_homeworld2_screen023. jpg |
| 23:25 | < Ced23Ric> | I think that'd look good. |
| 23:25 | < Soren> | Ah, yes. |
| 23:26 | < Soren> | I agree. |
| 23:27 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?homeworld25.jpg |
| 23:27 | < Soren> | I might be cheeky and flip it upside-down to make it feel less naval, though. |
| 23:27 | < Ced23Ric> | Dunno about this guy, very ... long. |
| 23:27 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, but the topside is where the main turrets go. |
| 23:27 | < Soren> | I really like that design, actually. But it does need some cleanup. |
| 23:27 | < Ced23Ric> | Bottom has a single one, topside has three. |
| 23:28 | < Soren> | Actually, Iāve been thinking for AB that most weapons are spinal mounts. |
| 23:28 | < Ced23Ric> | If you flip it ... mhmm. Might opt for missile batteries in the flanks. |
| 23:28 | < Soren> | only PD is turreted. |
| 23:28 | < Ced23Ric> | So, it's all forward facing? |
| 23:28 | < Soren> | or swivel. |
| 23:28 | < Ced23Ric> | Gotta turn the prow at the target? |
| 23:28 | < Soren> | But yeah, essentially. |
| 23:29 | < Ced23Ric> | Seems quite ... inefficient, given the slow turn rates. |
| 23:29 | < Ced23Ric> | Or, well, makes missiles so much more important. |
| 23:29 | < Soren> | Facing isnāt a huge deal in either of the games, actually. |
| 23:29 | < Soren> | Although Iām sure J will change things and fuck it up for everyone. |
| 23:30 | < Soren> | Iām more concerned about the potential sizeof gun turrets. |
| 23:30 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, true - tiny ships make turrets look like poop. |
| 23:30 | < Soren> | if you want any customization, youād have to make enormous turrets. |
| 23:30 | < Ced23Ric> | I mean, even the 1x1 rounds for missile heads are way too massive. |
| 23:30 | < Soren> | Yeah |
| 23:31 | < Ced23Ric> | Could probably just use the open holes of headlights et al. |
| 23:31 | < Ced23Ric> | But that looks weird because of the spacing between them. |
| 23:32 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?homeworld2_021403_001.jpg |
| 23:32 | < Soren> | So it was an aesthetic compromise. |
| 23:32 | < Soren> | But if youāre really attached to having gun turrets, there are one or two workable options. Theyāre just kind of boring. |
| 23:32 | < Soren> | Iām saving my really fancy turret designs for later stuff. |
| 23:32 | < Ced23Ric> | This is a sexy beast. |
| 23:33 | < Soren> | The dreadnought? |
| 23:33 | < Soren> | Yes it is. |
| 23:33 | < Ced23Ric> | Spinal whatever-doom-cannon. |
| 23:33 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. |
| 23:33 | < Ced23Ric> | Hrm. |
| 23:33 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, I went with 1x1 clip, t piece, claws. |
| 23:33 | < Ced23Ric> | For PD cannons. |
| 23:34 | < Ced23Ric> | A variant of yours, actually. |
| 23:34 | < Soren> | Itās cheap and efficient. |
| 23:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, that's why I went with it. I can't go much smaller without getting weird spacing. |
| 23:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Was debating to use hands in 1x2 plates, but ... |
| 23:34 | < Ced23Ric> | ... that looks really, really dinky. |
| 23:35 | < Soren> | yeah. |
| 23:35 | < Soren> | If you want to get handwavey you can say that the integral PD is phased-array lasers or other cop-outs, too. |
| 23:36 | < Ced23Ric> | I like my systems displayed, I guess. |
| 23:37 | < Soren> | Well, I was talking about your minimal, white-dice PD, but yeah. |
| 23:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Vagyr ships are best ships. :( |
| 23:37 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?beta_ss11.jpg |
| 23:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Even their shipyard looks beast. |
| 23:37 | < Soren> | Certainly theyāre the stabbiest |
| 23:37 | < Soren> | I actually have a Vagyr bomber lying around right now. |
| 23:38 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/v_command_corvette02.gif |
| 23:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Simple, yet pretty. |
| 23:38 | < Ced23Ric> | The shift in the straight line makes it. |
| 23:39 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 23:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Think you can capture that nice enough in 12/16 ? |
| 23:39 | < Ced23Ric> | I feel like my blocks are too big. |
| 23:39 | < Soren> | Iād say itās a job for lots and lots of plates. |
| 23:40 | < Ced23Ric> | Plates, slopes, cheeses, headlights for indentions .... yeah. |
| 23:40 | < Soren> | But yeah, totally doable. |
| 23:41 | < Ced23Ric> | Not a part efficient thing. |
| 23:41 | < Soren> | Well. |
| 23:41 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?e3gs_homeworld2_screen024. jpg |
| 23:41 | < Ced23Ric> | So sexy. |
| 23:41 | < Soren> | Nothing good looking ever is. |
| 23:41 | < Soren> | Yeah, the carrier is a sexy beast. |
| 23:41 | < Ced23Ric> | True. |
| 23:41 | < Ced23Ric> | It's the colours, too, though. |
| 23:41 | < Ced23Ric> | The white/grey/black makes the yellow pop like a mother. |
| 23:42 | < Soren> | Yup. |
| 23:42 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?demo_091303_20.jpg |
| 23:42 | < Ced23Ric> | The Heavy Cruiser is prety, sweet, too. |
| 23:43 | < Soren> | Yeah. Itās very Macrossy. |
| 23:43 | < Ced23Ric> | See, I am debating on trying my hand on that. A carrier with two companies, a Cruiser for mean brawlin', a light carrier, and some frigates. |
| 23:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, two. |
| 23:43 | < Ced23Ric> | What's the fleet loadout you opt for? |
| 23:43 | < Soren> | I have no idea yet! |
| 23:43 | < Ced23Ric> | I dunno, I feel like using frame companies hurts me. |
| 23:44 | < Soren> | I have some ideas for troll builds. I like troll builds. |
| 23:44 | < Soren> | http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/nupetiet-vergnitzs-dyrl/nupetiet-vergnitz s-dyrl-damagegun.gif |
| 23:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Because I get a weaker "ship" that steals systems of my other ships, y'know? |
| 23:44 | < Soren> | well, wait until you hear of my trollings. |
| 23:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Enlighten me. |
| 23:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Please do. :D |
| 23:44 | < Soren> | two catapults, and one PD gun... on a frigate. |
| 23:45 | < Soren> | That gives you two frame companies based off a very mobile support ship. |
| 23:45 | < Soren> | Then youāre free to make the rest of your fleet all noise-bringing heavy firepower. |
| 23:45 | < Ced23Ric> | I was thinking about that, too. |
| 23:45 | < Soren> | Probably a missile ship and a mix of cruisers and frigates. |
| 23:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Instead of putting the frames on a big ship, put it on a frigate. |
| 23:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Like a space-born CHub Tub. |
| 23:46 | < Ced23Ric> | *borne |
| 23:46 | < Soren> | Well, any dedicated carrier design would probably be abut as good. |
| 23:46 | < Soren> | about8 |
| 23:46 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/v_atmodep02.gif - this engine setup is nice. |
| 23:46 | < Ced23Ric> | My carriers are W W B PD K K. |
| 23:47 | < Ced23Ric> | Just an added defense system, really. |
| 23:47 | < Soren> | Yeah, it probably just depends on whether or not you need the speed. |
| 23:47 | < Ced23Ric> | But I see your point - dropping the B gives you more maneuvering, while the PD can support your companies as they get out. |
| 23:48 | < Ced23Ric> | MFZ has rarely, if ever, rewarded speed over spot and shoot, for me. |
| 23:48 | < Soren> | Well, how many three-player games have you had? |
| 23:48 | < Ced23Ric> | I ran several games, and going for obliberation with activation advantage and spotting advantage did the trick. |
| 23:48 | < Soren> | In a two-player game, yeah, firepower is all. |
| 23:48 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm. 2, to be fair. |
| 23:48 | < Ced23Ric> | Most of my games were 1 vs. 1 |
| 23:49 | < Soren> | when you have an odd number of players, youāre usually trying to trick the other two players into fighting while you sprint for an objective. |
| 23:49 | < Ced23Ric> | In the 3 player games, I usually stayed 2nd for as long as I could, shared the love by shelling at the bigger guy and temp allying the other guy, and when they went at it, I mopped up. |
| 23:50 | < Soren> | Not a bad plan. |
| 23:50 | < Soren> | So, yeah, either dedicated carrier design is probably about as effective. |
| 23:50 | < Soren> | split carrier/cruiser designs are effective if you use several to distribute risk. |
| 23:51 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm-mhmm. |
| 23:51 | < Soren> | IE, if you have one carrier with two companies and I have two carriers with one each, destroying or capturing one of those carriers only takes half my frames out of action. |
| 23:51 | < Ced23Ric> | Like, 3 light carriers. |
| 23:51 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 23:51 | < Ced23Ric> | But that leaves me with only two more ships. |
| 23:51 | < Soren> | You lose less, and you can distribute your forces more widely. |
| 23:52 | < Ced23Ric> | which would need to be battleships, at this point. |
| 23:52 | < Soren> | I didnāt say it was an optimal strategy. Valid, though. |
| 23:52 | < Ced23Ric> | Do split systems come back, by the by? |
| 23:52 | < Soren> | or attack frigates. |
| 23:52 | < Soren> | They should? |
| 23:52 | < Ced23Ric> | Because that fucks with boarding. |
| 23:52 | < Ced23Ric> | PD adds a B against boarding. |
| 23:52 | < Ced23Ric> | Does a 0.5 D add 0.5 a B? |
| 23:52 | < Ced23Ric> | *PD |
| 23:53 | < Soren> | Seriously, youāre asking the wrong guy. Iāve only read the playtest. |
| 23:53 | < Soren> | Youāre massively underestimating the degree of disorganization J takes for granted. |
| 23:53 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, I am just asing as a ... open question. |
| 23:53 | < Soren> | 80% of the games of MFZ I have played happened this month. |
| 23:53 | < Ced23Ric> | I am not expecting a page and line and ... oh. |
| 23:54 | < Ced23Ric> | I don't know if I shoud offer a hug or a beer or laugh. |
| 23:54 | < Ced23Ric> | http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/images/display.htm?concept_Vaygr%20Listening% 20Post.jpg <--- the lower thing could make for a HVA. Or a frigate. It's a listening post, but whatever. |
| 23:54 | < Soren> | I have the advantage of being a pretty sharp analyst. |
| 23:54 | < Soren> | But Iām modelling, not speaking from experience. |
| 23:55 | < Soren> | So if you experience disagrees with my prediction, maybe donāt listen to me! |
| 23:55 | < Soren> | Yeah, something like that would be good. Get some long vanes. |
| 23:55 | < Ced23Ric> | If I wouldn't know of your sharp mind, I wouldn't not pose open questions. |
| 23:55 | < Soren> | Iāve built some tiny freighters and a couple of comsats. |
| 23:55 | < Ced23Ric> | As a grouped HVA? |
| 23:56 | < Ced23Ric> | Like, a freighter convoy? |
| 23:56 | < Soren> | as single ships, but thereās no reason you couldnāt group them. |
| 23:56 | < Ced23Ric> | I was looking into having almost a little vignette/diorama of a convoy. |
| 23:56 | < Soren> | It would be a little crowded, but it could work. |
| 23:57 | < Ced23Ric> | Maybe a tug with a handful of containers (1x1 plate with 1x1 flat on top, multiple colours), and a 2x2 rounded tip with stud connected with an axle and some bridge/engine slapped on top/side. |
| 23:57 | < Ced23Ric> | Stuff like that. |
| 23:57 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3sa1j35ghvte2c/Sample%20HVA%2001%20%28Carabao%20freig hter%29.jpg |
| 23:57 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1tfz5qjo54sv2h/Sample%20HVA%2002%20%28Carabao%20freig hter%29.jpg |
| 23:57 | < Ced23Ric> | That's fucking adorable. |
| 23:58 | < Soren> | ty |
| 23:58 | < Ced23Ric> | http://www.ced23ric.de/stuff/mf0/alpha_bandit_hvas_view.png |
| 23:58 | < Ced23Ric> | Those are what I cooked up for HVAs, trying to make them match my fleet - SU assets protected by SU fleet. |
| 23:59 | < Ced23Ric> | http://www.ced23ric.de/stuff/mf0/alpha_bandit_hvas.png |
| 23:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Different angle. |
| 23:59 | < Soren> | I would add some brighter color to all of them to make it clear theyāre prey and not predators, but I like them. |
| 23:59 | < Soren> | orange would be great. |
| 23:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm. |
| 23:59 | < Ced23Ric> | All around or just in sections? |
| 23:59 | < Soren> | just sections |
| --- Log closed Mon Apr 21 00:00:11 2014 |