| --- Log opened Wed Aug 10 00:00:05 2016 |
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| 14:59 | <@TheWatcher> | Mwahahahahahaha!!! IT'S ALIVE!!!! |
| 15:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Yay? |
| 15:01 | <@TheWatcher> | Possibly, it depends how you feel about the impending rule of the machine masters. |
| 15:06 | <@TheWatcher> | (more specifically, a system I've been refactoring and extending over the past few days has passed the tests that make sure that the various things it communicates with it can't tell that it's doing things quite differently and more flexibly inside) |
| 15:17 | < catadroid> | I'm now reading excel spreadsheets into C# structs |
| 15:17 | < catadroid> | My job is at least fairly varied |
| 15:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Hopefully through a library? |
| 15:29 | < catadroid> | Oh, very definitely |
| 15:30 | < catadroid> | Though it turns out that the query functions are slooooooow so I am just doing that part manually |
| 15:32 | <@simon> | ok, here's a problem: I've a friend whose friend is writing this research grant proposal doing an anthropological study of bullying among seamen. apparently, asking seamen to fill out questionnaries has been quite difficult: they really don't like to fill them out, so preferrably ask them to record their answers. there's not always good internet access, so even writing a responsive web app that gives a button |
| 15:32 | <@simon> | to record speech requires some good thinking. |
| 15:35 | <@TheWatcher> | App that saves wav files locally on the phone, uploads them to a server at some regular time when signal available? |
| 15:37 | <@TheWatcher> | possibly some basic encryption to make sure they can't be easily played back, too |
| 15:37 | <@simon> | so native app (preferrably developed in across-platform environment like phonegap) vs. responsive web app with push notifications + client-side storage for reminding them to keep filling out and submitting whenever there's interwebs... |
| 15:39 | <@simon> | I somehow assume that a responsive web page is more versatile, but comes with those annoying disadvantages that 1) if the person gets distracted from the questionnaire, the phone doesn't have automatic hooks for reminding the user to return to their questionnaire, and 2) I'm not sure it's easy for an off-line webpage to detect when there's internet access for submitting stuff. |
| 15:39 | <@simon> | yeah, actually, sounds like a native (cross-platform) app has so many advantages. |
| 15:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Yep |
| 15:41 | <@TheWatcher> | I wouldn't try that with a webapp, I suspect that the number of spiders involved would make it more effort than just going straight for a real app |
| 15:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Real apps can definitely do things like check for wifi, which may be a nicer idea if you're sending audio files than just checking for data: send answers back to the server when wifi is available, rather than using up the data plan |
| 15:44 | <@TheWatcher> | (Not sure how much of an issue that is over there, whether unlimited data plans are a common thing or not, but it's a good option to provide in any event) |
| 16:27 | <@simon> | yes. they can also more easily without internet access remind them to fill out the survey if they haven't already, and perhaps get more pushy as the deadline approaches. |
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| 21:48 | <@ErikMesoy> | Urge to cluebat rising. I have encountered an Ideas Guy who wants to do a total conversion Pokemon game with new system and mechanics. He has no idea how to program, and he's taking *suggestions* and *volunteers* to help with it. |
| 21:50 | <@ErikMesoy> | I have deleted and rewritten a scathing reply several times as I seek to balance not violating community standards with making it sufficiently plain to Ideas Guy and everyone involved that this is guaranteed to end in tears. |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | By total conversion do we mean the GBC |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | Hand him a Z-80 manual and note that for older systems you really need a solid grasp of the system for ideas to happen |
| 21:51 | <@ErikMesoy> | It's not entirely clear what he means, since, well, Ideas Guy. But he seems to mean a new Pokemon game, presumably running on regular PC, only programmed with all his shiny new ideas |
| 21:52 | <@ErikMesoy> | Are there any reference cases I can point to to illustrate the extent to which talk is cheap, ideas are cheap, and there is no bloody way you are getting an entire game out of "please implement my ideas for me"? |
| 21:52 | <@ErikMesoy> | Or is this just the sort of thing that has to be learned by painful experience? |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | He's not the one who needs to be calibrated |
| 21:52 | <@ErikMesoy> | Because it seems so obvious to me, but I weep for the people signing up to his thread. |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | It's skilled newcomers that need to be warned off >_> |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | But they'll get practice and a valuable learning experience~ |
| 21:53 | <@ErikMesoy> | They're contributing ideas and offering to do sprite art for new pokeymans. |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | Ehn |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | That's harmless |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | That's me posting assembly code into a forum thread |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | It's people trying to run a project that are going to have Problems |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | If he wants to pick up Game Maker Studio or RPG Maker ZX or something, Ideas Guy might even do a thing that is a thing~ |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, "ideas are easy, doing the work is hard" |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | "But doing the work isn't *that* hard, make something with ________ and show us how it's coming along" |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | And then they will never be seen again |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | Or they *will* and maybe actually have cool stuff, which is fine~ |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of which, FACETANK and Dapper Delver are both in a sorry state |
| 21:55 | <&McMartin> | Dapper Delver is languishing because of poor tooling, though. |
| 21:56 | | * Vornicus needs to stop fucking around with diffeq shit and actually get basic collisions going in vornball |
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| 21:56 | | * Vornicus likes math a bit too much |
| 21:58 | <@ErikMesoy> | My money's on "be seen again three months later trying to pretend this never happened". |
| 21:58 | <@ErikMesoy> | Oh well, time to watch learning experience. |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | Well, I mean |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | If you're going to try to blacklist someone because they shelved a personal project |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | You're talking to an empty room even here |
| 22:04 | <@ErikMesoy> | I'm not trying to blacklist anyone. |
| 22:04 | <~Vornicus> | (why am I doing my own physics? because box2d doesn't have inside circles, ffs) |
| 22:07 | <@ErikMesoy> | Most of the threads on this microcommunity subforum are either personal projects of greatly-varying degrees of actual finishing (including some of my own that died partway through) or random brainstorming and "wouldn't it be nice if" threads. |
| 22:09 | <@ErikMesoy> | This one in particular has me worried because it looks like it's set to pull several naive people into someone *else's* vanity project when that someone else freely admits to having no clue about how to do the thing, and no ability to contribute beyond ideas. |
| 22:10 | <@gnolam> | ErikMesoy: we had a form response for that on a forum I frequented, heh. |
| 22:10 | <@ErikMesoy> | Am I maybe just too cynical? |
| 22:10 | <~Vornicus> | I saw a post on game dev stackexchange a couple weeks back that describes what a game designer does. |
| 22:10 | <@ErikMesoy> | Are they seeing something I'm not about how this project might get somewhere? |
| 22:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | Ehh, it's getting late. |
| 22:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | gnolam: I would like to hear that form response and then sleep on it. |
| 22:11 | <@gnolam> | A tick-the-box copypasta post like that classic "This is why your idea to fight spam won't work" one. |
| 22:11 | <@gnolam> | I' |
| 22:11 | <@gnolam> | ll see if I can find it... |
| 22:11 | <@gnolam> | But yes: That Guy shows up on literally every game development forum. |
| 22:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | Haven't seen the spam one, have seen the programming language one. (http://colinm.org/language_checklist.html) |
| 22:13 | < catadroid> | But it's not a Monday |
| 22:13 | <@gnolam> | And That Guy usually thinks that coming up with the ideas is the hard part. |
| 22:13 | <~Vornicus> | does remind me at some point I need to figure out powers for vornball. |
| 22:13 | <@gnolam> | And that people should work for him for free. |
| 22:14 | <@gnolam> | The polite answer for the recruitment threads is "Come back when you have a playable prototype". |
| 22:15 | | * catadroid remembers posting in allegro forums |
| 22:15 | <@gnolam> | The spam one, or some version of it at least: http://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt |
| 22:22 | <&McMartin> | "Shift-reduce conflicts appear to be resolved using rand()" is my favorite bit of the language one. |
| 22:24 | < catadroid> | heh |
| 22:25 | < catadroid> | "so you've decided to automatically insert semicolons" |
| 22:25 | <&McMartin> | The checklist is honest at least, in that has/lacks are both disqualifying. |
| 22:29 | < catadroid> | Haha at the PHP one |
| 22:33 | <~Vornicus> | as a php programmer, yes |
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| 22:34 | <&McMartin> | On the other hand, Inform 7 checks like half of these boxes and is still going strong ten years on |
| 22:34 | <~Vornicus> | inform is an utter freak show of a language |
| 22:34 | < catadroid> | I just read through it thinking of Haskell |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | Inform 6 is actually one of those "shift-reduce conflicts appear to be resolved using rand()" cases |
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| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | It's a casually-evolved recursive descent parser so everything is horrifically context-sensitive in ways that make assigning things as type names or variable names or a dozen other things extremely difficult |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | I don't recall if McGrew ever really managed to encode it into something a parser generater can consume. |
| 22:38 | < catadroid> | Ah, it's C++ |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | Interactive fiction DSLs turn out to be interesting |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | Because for the most part all objects are instantiated at compile time and no two are quite alike |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | This does very interesting things for the notions of "class" and "instance" |
| 22:44 | < kourbou> | Anyone have an idea on a project name for something that's fast and delivers a lot of messages fast? |
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| 22:44 | < kourbou> | I know I'm asking developers. :P |
| 22:44 | <@Alek> | ZOOMMS? |
| 22:45 | < kourbou> | XD |
| 22:45 | < kourbou> | Good start. Yeah. |
| 22:45 | < kourbou> | I was thinking something with fire. Like bam, it's gone. |
| 22:46 | <~Vornicus> | you mean aside from "mercury" |
| 22:47 | < kourbou> | Mercury? |
| 22:48 | <@Alek> | A.K.A. Hermes. God of travelers, doctors, and mailmen. |
| 22:48 | <@Alek> | among others. |
| 22:48 | <~Vornicus> | the god of messages, and very swift |
| 22:49 | < kourbou> | Okay yeah but does that really fit in a tech kind of name? |
| 22:49 | < kourbou> | XD |
| 22:49 | <@Alek> | um, why wouldn't it? |
| 22:49 | <~Vornicus> | I would be surprised if it weren't taken, you know, a dozen times already |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | I don't know, I think it's the designer part of me imagining how ugly the logo is going to be |
| 22:50 | <@Alek> | HermesSage? :P |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | Oh mercury is taken XD |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | I'm pretty sure it's an SVN alternative |
| 22:50 | <&McMartin> | "Mercurial", not Mercury |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | Wait no that's Mercurial |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | Y'all |
| 22:50 | <&McMartin> | But they do call it Hg |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | Yeah* |
| 22:50 | < kourbou> | And their logo is the material |
| 22:52 | <~Vornicus> | as for sounding techy, I am working on a project in an environment where one of the major third-party addons is called "HUMP" |
| 22:52 | < kourbou> | No I like having like a material in the band |
| 22:52 | < kourbou> | Name* |
| 22:52 | < kourbou> | Keyboard hates me. |
| 22:53 | < kourbou> | Haha HUMP. That's great. |
| 22:53 | <&[R]> | There's also MUMPS |
| 22:53 | <&McMartin> | MUMPS is an old and honorable system |
| 22:54 | < kourbou> | Someone should do GRUMPS |
| 22:54 | <&[R]> | If you see a job-ad that involces MUMPS... run, run as far as you can. |
| 22:55 | <&[R]> | AIUI: It's an old-school language with none of the modern conveniences (for this purpose, C is /not/ old). For whatever reason, it was decided that all variables would persist. |
| 22:56 | < kourbou> | lol. Worse than Chrome with my RAM? |
| 22:56 | <&[R]> | I don't see how that's related. |
| 22:57 | < kourbou> | Don't variables use RAM? .-. |
| 22:57 | <~Vornicus> | apparently smalltalk did the all-variables-persist thing too |
| 22:57 | < kourbou> | If they persist, they keep the RAM space no? |
| 22:57 | <&[R]> | They do. But by persist, I mean variables get written to disk. |
| 22:57 | <~Vornicus> | It's an amazingly terrible idea |
| 22:58 | < kourbou> | Haha. |
| 22:58 | < kourbou> | That's what you meant. XD |
| 22:58 | < kourbou> | I thought there was no way of disposing them. |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> | That's a thing from Smalltalk, yes |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> | Basically, you don't have applications |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> | You have an ~environment~ that everyone can modify |
| 23:02 | <&McMartin> | Because this is good |
| 23:02 | <&McMartin> | If a program can't rewrite its own code, and if you don't program it by basically doing that, why are you even here |
| 23:02 | <&McMartin> | I mean, not to shit on the concept of stored-program computers, but, well, we spent an awful long time working out execution permissions that ended up giving us what ROM chips gave us for free, you know~ |
| 23:04 | < kourbou> | Uhm I'm thinking of going with 'airmail' |
| 23:06 | < kourbou> | Would someone use their command line to run 'rapid -d -p 2555 -o packages.json' |
| 23:06 | < kourbou> | ? |
| 23:08 | < kourbou> | Sorry meant 'airmail -d -p 2555 -o packages.json' |
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| --- Log closed Thu Aug 11 00:00:21 2016 |