| --- Log opened Wed Jan 20 00:00:01 2016 |
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| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | archive.org saves the day |
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| 03:01 | <@Reiv> | ? |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | I've been trying to collect official Apple documentation that is cited heavily by everyone including themselves, but that they took down at some point in the past six months |
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| 09:21 | < Natanial> | Hello, and Good Morning to all. |
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| 11:09 | < [R]> | <McMartin> I've been trying to collect official Apple documentation that is cited heavily by everyone including themselves, but that they took down at some point in the past six months <-- that reminds me of when I actually tried to do win32 dev, started bookmarking MSDN heavily since finding shit was a PITA. They changed all the URLs. Refound most things and rebookmarked them. Then they changed the URLs again, by which time I had already started looking into |
| 11:09 | < [R]> | Linux... |
| 11:24 | <@TheWatcher> | You actually bookmark things?!~ |
| 11:29 | < [R]> | Used to |
| 11:33 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, this isn't just "changed all the URLs", this is "their own documentation isn't properly crossreferenced and the target document does not appear in their master search" |
| 11:34 | <&McMartin> | On the plus side, I have *also* located a MOD I had previously heard in several places but could not actually locate. |
| 11:34 | <&McMartin> | It is "Her 11", by Estrayk, most prominently featured in the Lyle in Cube Sector OST but apparently predating it. |
| 11:34 | | * gnolam sighs. |
| 11:35 | <@gnolam> | I have just realized I pretty much have to make my own vector editor to properly implement this feature. >_< |
| 11:37 | < Wulfric> | Can you guys recommend a good advanced Swing tutorial? I know the basics (well, some of them), but it feels as though I'm gravely misusing the damn thing. |
| 11:40 | <&McMartin> | Sarcastic answer: "That means you're doing it right!" |
| 11:40 | <&McMartin> | Less sarcastic answer: I used to use it semi-extenisvely and I learned from the O'Reilly book "Java Swing" |
| 11:40 | <&McMartin> | Though that's also got a lot of reference in it; it is a Mighty Codex |
| 11:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Semi-sarcastic answer: does you code actually work and show the UI you want? If so, just go with it, because there is no sanity to be found by going further. |
| 12:15 | < Wulfric> | TheWatcher: No, it does not. |
| 12:16 | < Wulfric> | It's a mess, and that which works I don't know why it works. |
| 12:20 | <&McMartin> | Have you at least run through the Swing Tutorials on Oracle's docs site? |
| 12:20 | <&McMartin> | That's probably the "fastest" answer if you haven't |
| 12:21 | <&McMartin> | ( http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/uiswing/ ) |
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| 12:34 | < Wulfric> | Not exactly. I've been running off half-remembered university material, and reference. |
| 12:37 | <&McMartin> | I'd have a spin through their tutorial then, skimming or slowing down when necessary. If nothing else it'll expose you to sample code that is Swing used as intended |
| 12:38 | < Wulfric> | OK. |
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| 15:17 | < Wulfric> | https://brave.com/ |
| 15:23 | < natanial> | Hello |
| 15:27 | < natanial> | Crossfire: My other name is LostFire |
| 15:28 | <@Crossfire> | Congratulations? |
| 15:28 | <@Crossfire> | I'm unsure what to do with this information. |
| 15:28 | < Wulfric> | Bury it in a time capsule. |
| 15:28 | < natanial> | Yay |
| 15:29 | < natanial> | Ehh just your name i like it and it reminded me of mine |
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| 16:04 | <@Crossfire> | Oh, fair enough. |
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| 16:14 | < Natanian> | Hi |
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| 21:00 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/unserkaiser/status/678986537544114177 |
| 21:04 | | * abudhabi laughs out loud. |
| 21:05 | <@Reiv> | oh, that's fabulous |
| 21:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Seems legit to me. |
| 21:07 | <@Reiv> | That is the exact point you are thankful for remembering the Screen Hacker site, wot types fancy shit as you pound keys |
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| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | Oy. Hey, guess what URL suddenly is valid this afternoon: |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | Protip: It's the one I needed valid *yesterday* |
| 22:16 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:22 | < [R]> | One of their servers must have crashed |
| 22:23 | <&McMartin> | I'm kind of astonished that a server crash would result in documents being purged from your own internal search results |
| 22:25 | < [R]> | I could see that, assuming your search engine offloaded the work to all the storage servers and just consolodated the results |
| 22:26 | < [R]> | It's somewhat like what Google does... just lacking the insane redundancy that makes theirs work. |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | It also doesn't help when you're Apple and have a long and well-documented history of shoving two-year-old APIs entirely down the memory hole |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | "If we document it, people might use it, and we can't have that." |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | "We want them using Storyboards and Swift, let's purge all references to programmatically interfacing with UIKit in Objective-C" |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | Turns out the latter isn't quite on deck yet, but. |
| 22:30 | < [R]> | Eww |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | So I figured they'd just purged information about actually interoperating with View Controllers to get people to stop trying to do that, hence, archive.org |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | It appears that this time my cynicism was misplaced |
| 22:31 | < [R]> | This is why offline documentation wins. |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | There is in fact still no "introduction to iOS programming" document that is actually written for ObjC programmers now. |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Sort of! |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Apple has also made the mysterious choice of making most of the API reference basically be PDF |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Except I can only find the PDF links when I load the same pages on archive.org, so I assume that is some kind of cookie or browser config thing. |
| 22:33 | < [R]> | Remember when offline documentation/help was called online documentation/help? |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | Sure, because you were at a computer. |
| 22:33 | < [R]> | :p |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | As opposed to facing an entire bookshelf full of identical spiral-bound notebooks |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | Not gonna lie - I'm old enough to remember those days, albeit as a child |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | I'm glad to have missed them. My paper references have always managed to fit in a backpack. |
| 22:34 | <&McMartin> | ... A big backpack. |
| 22:34 | | * McMartin is reminded how large the IBM DOS 2.1 + BASICA documentation was. |
| 22:35 | < [R]> | I miss backpacks, I'd never use the provided lockers, as such I'd go through 3 backpacks in 2 years. |
| 22:35 | < [R]> | (When I went to school) |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 21 00:00:17 2016 |