| --- Log opened Thu Oct 15 00:00:53 2015 |
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| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | Also, boo, I was hoping Dr. Breen's Sandwich would be on YouTube somewhere, but it seems it is not. |
| 01:35 | | * Derakon readsup a bit. |
| 01:36 | <&Derakon> | I honestly find it rather unnatural to use non-static inner classes in Java. |
| 01:36 | <&Derakon> | I guess non-static classes are kind of like C++ "friend" relationships. |
| 01:39 | <@celticminstrel> | I forget, do nested classes in C++ also get some priveleged access to the containing class? |
| 01:39 | <@celticminstrel> | Non-static inner classes in Java are really something that C++ has no direct equivalent for. I don't think I'd compare them to friend relationships. They're just nested classes with an implicit argument of the enclosing class's type. |
| 01:40 | <&Derakon> | They have access to the enclosing class's private/protected fields, don't they? |
| 01:41 | <@celticminstrel> | Nested classes in C++? I think so, can't quite remember. |
| 01:41 | <&Derakon> | In Java. |
| 01:41 | <&Derakon> | A class that has access to another class's privates is the similarity with friendship in C++. |
| 01:42 | <&Derakon> | If it didn't have access, then literally the only reason to make it an inner class would be for namespacing. |
| 01:45 | <@celticminstrel> | With respect to access, C++ nested classes and Java inner classes are the same. |
| 01:45 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not quite sure if Java static nested classes are also the same. |
| 01:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyway, in both cases they can access the protected and private members of the enclosing class. |
| 01:46 | < catadroid> | I'm near certain that C++ nested classes cannot |
| 01:46 | < catadroid> | it's common to declare them friends though |
| 01:47 | <@celticminstrel> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/486099/can-inner-classes-access-private-varia bles |
| 01:47 | <@celticminstrel> | I thought that too, actually, but it looks like they're implicitly friends. |
| 01:47 | <@celticminstrel> | First comment on first answer also sounds relevant. |
| 01:48 | < catadroid> | huh |
| 01:48 | < catadroid> | well, there's yet another reason not to use them |
| 01:48 | <@celticminstrel> | No, that's a good reason to use them. |
| 01:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Small classes that benefit from accessing privates of your class (iterators for example) are good candidates for being declared nested in your class. |
| 01:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Better encapsulation and such. |
| 01:50 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess the reason I thought it wasn't that way is because it changed in C++11. |
| 01:51 | < catadroid> | possibly for private implementation details |
| 01:52 | < catadroid> | but then why are they in your public interface? |
| 01:52 | < catadroid> | I've never found a situation I wanted to use nested classes that was not more neatly solved using another mechanism |
| 01:52 | <@celticminstrel> | If they're private implementation details, presumably they're private and thus not in your public interface. |
| 01:53 | < catadroid> | The biggest problem I have with nested classes is that they are impossible to forward declare |
| 01:53 | | * Derakon grumbles at Firefox's fullscreen transition, which takes like 2-3 seconds each time. |
| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 01:53 | <&Derakon> | I can find other people grumbling about it, but their proposed solutions don't do diddly. |
| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | I can see how that could be a problem. |
| 01:55 | <@celticminstrel> | For iterators I think nested classes are often a good idea, or for proxy classes. |
| 01:56 | <&Derakon> | ...ahh, needed to update Firefox, now it's zippier. |
| 02:02 | < catadroid> | I could perhaps be persuaded about iterators, but honestly I find nested classes promote awful coding practise |
| 02:13 | <&McMartin> | C++ nested classes don't get private access, no |
| 02:13 | <&McMartin> | C++ nested classes really are basically namespacing |
| 02:13 | <&McMartin> | With a few extra wrinkles that make them interact in interesting ways with templates |
| 02:14 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, forward declarations :/ |
| 02:28 | <@celticminstrel> | That StackOverflow question appears to contradict that... is it wrong? |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | If it changed in C++11, then that's new |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | But I've been burned by this before |
| 02:30 | <@celticminstrel> | Might've come up when I was doing stuff too, but if so that was awhile ago. |
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| 12:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Yes! Finally! |
| 12:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Twiddly-bit frobnication has fixed the timing problem. |
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| 12:16 | <@gnolam> | :) |
| 12:17 | <@gnolam> | What was the problem? |
| 12:19 | <@Tamber> | Incorrectly frobbed twiddly bits. |
| 12:20 | < catadroid> | Quite |
| 12:26 | <@TheWatcher> | There were several parts to it: using < instead of <= in an SQL query was failing to include subscriptions that should be sent if the process got to it quickly, but worked okay if it didn't; an interaction between the cron job and the subscription schedule time meant that sometimes it would exclude a subscription it should be sending until 10 minutes later; and I think there may have been something in th |
| 12:26 | <@TheWatcher> | ere caused by the slowing of the pulsar PSR |
| 12:26 | <@TheWatcher> | J1614ā2230 |
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| 15:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | Holy shit yes please: http://devdocs.io/ |
| 15:32 | <@TheWatcher> | ... O.O |
| 15:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Dear sweet merciful Cthulhu, yes. |
| 15:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | :sploosh: |
| 15:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also it has an option to download for offline use |
| 15:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | I should submit a PR for alternate Lua versions, I mostly work in LuaJIT (which is most closely based on 5.1) |
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| 16:16 | < abudhabi> | Is there any PDF editor that isn't crap? |
| 16:26 | < abudhabi> | Libre Office sort of works, but displays wrong (as it does with anything that wasn't created with Libre Office) and is a gigantic resource drain. |
| 16:27 | <&jeroud> | I always generate PDFs from some other source format. |
| 16:28 | <&jeroud> | PDF is not designed to be editable. |
| 16:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | ^ that |
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| 16:30 | < abudhabi> | jeroud: Not applicable, unless I apply some kind of corporate espionage. I want to edit a rulebook PDF with errata. |
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| 16:38 | <&jeroud> | Ah. |
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| 17:47 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 17:47 | <@TheWatcher> | Corporate espionage may be easier~ |
| 17:49 | <@Tamber> | ...now I almost want to know what it is that I've missed. |
| 17:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Backscroll to 16:16 - 16:30 |
| 17:50 | <@Tamber> | I have exactly three visible lines there. |
| 17:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tamber: "is there any PDF editor that isn't crap" onwards |
| 17:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...there should be six lines. |
| 17:52 | <@Tamber> | Not if you have certain parties on ignore. Which is what I was trying to avoid having to say outright, because some people throw temper tantrums~ |
| 17:56 | <@TheWatcher> | https://starforge.co.uk/irclogs/code/code.20151015.log.html#m1616-0 then~ |
| 17:57 | <@Tamber> | Aha. Thank-you. |
| 17:58 | <@Tamber> | ...Y...eah, corporate espionage may truly be easier than editing a PDF successfully. |
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| 18:45 | < [R]> | abudhabi: pdf2html then edit the HTML? (I'm assuming you just want a usable reference, not to redistribute the PDF) Otherwise do what Pink did with the Exalted PDFs? |
| 18:50 | <@gnolam> | abudhabi: how big is said PDF? If it's individual pages, Inkscape can do the job. |
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| 19:21 | < abudhabi> | [R]: Redistributable PDF would be nice, though I suppose a HTML document would do. Problem is it's not laid out too webpage-friendly. |
| 19:21 | < abudhabi> | gnolam: 200 pages. |
| 19:25 | < [R]> | pdf2html generates kind of a PDF-viewer like interface, there's a sidebar with all the PDF's bookmarks. It's not great, but I've used it a few times for various reasons. |
| 19:26 | < abudhabi> | What did Pink do? |
| 19:26 | < [R]> | There' |
| 19:27 | < [R]> | There's this annotation format that certain PDF readers can read. He distributed the annotation files. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 16 00:00:09 2015 |