| --- Log opened Sun Mar 15 00:00:07 2015 |
| 00:15 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
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| 01:59 | | * Derakon debugs some code for work via the built-in scripting panel, eyes this line. |
| 01:59 | <&Derakon> | org.micromanager.MMStudio.getInstance().frame_.metadataPanel_.contrastPanel_.cur rentHistograms_.ccpList_.get(0).cache_.getSummaryMetadata().getJSONArray("ChName s"); |
| 01:59 | <&Derakon> | (I'd previously overridden Java's normal public/private system; normally none of these fields would be directly available) |
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| 03:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Eh? |
| 03:50 | <&Derakon> | CM: that's just me descending through the object heirarchy of our program. I have to start from MMStudio, and my end point is some of the metadata for a dataset. |
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| 04:03 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 04:12 | <@froztbyte> | Derakon[AFK]: such private namespace access!~ |
| 04:12 | <@froztbyte> | what's with the _ suffix on some? |
| 04:12 | <@froztbyte> | oh, they're on all |
| 04:12 | <@froztbyte> | my eyes just don't work |
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| 09:02 | < kourbou> | I miss pi day already :( Yesterday was 3/1415 |
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| 20:33 | < Harlow> | Raw sockets from javascript are impossible :( |
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| 20:41 | < kourbou> | That's why you use Socket.io :) |
| 20:47 | < [R]> | Harlow: Browser-JS? Yes. |
| 20:53 | < Harlow> | socket io is just web sockets though |
| 20:53 | < Harlow> | I just want to use nectar |
| 20:53 | < Harlow> | netcat* |
| 20:53 | < Harlow> | on the server side |
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| 21:01 | < kourbou> | Ah OK. |
| 21:02 | < Harlow> | [R] what do you mean? |
| 21:03 | < [R]> | Harlow: not all JS is run in a browser. |
| 21:03 | < Harlow> | i know |
| 21:03 | < Harlow> | yeah i was talking an in browser js |
| 21:04 | < [R]> | No browser provides raw sockets to their JS interpreter. I really was hoping Websockets would have fixed that, but it didn't. |
| 21:04 | <@Shiz> | that is not something that should be fixed. |
| 21:14 | < Harlow> | Shiz, there should be some way some how to do raw sockets, even if its stupid complex. |
| 21:15 | <@Shiz> | no, there really shouldn't |
| 21:15 | <@Shiz> | not in browsers at least |
| 21:15 | <@Shiz> | you're opening up for more abuse potential than an unpatched windows xp install |
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| 21:55 | <&McMartin> | If I want to write a system in Javascript and have it be on a web page and stuff, can I have a master whatever.js file included by one script tag, and then have whatever.js load/include the remaining JS files? |
| 21:59 | < kourbou> | No idea. |
| 22:02 | <@Shiz> | yes. |
| 22:02 | <@Shiz> | http://requirejs.org/ |
| 22:03 | <@Shiz> | commonjs is another approach i believe |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | OK, this is not worth the effort for the specific use case |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | But it's good to know it exists |
| 22:04 | <&McMartin> | The solution in my case this time is literally cat |
| 22:05 | <@Shiz> | :) |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | I recognize the impulse to say "I want to include one script tag instead of like three or four when used" |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | "I will pull in massive new chunks of infrastructure and rearchitect the entire project!" |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | "Orrrrr I could cat the files all together at the end and include that." |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | Some of my JS books also claim that for (index in array) isn't guaranteed to return the indices in order. Is this actually true? |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | in-browser tests imply "no" but they also imply that maps preserve order and I *know* the spec doesn't guarantee that. |
| 22:15 | < [R]> | If you're being retarded and doing array.something = x... |
| 22:15 | < [R]> | Otherwise yeah, arrays keep their order. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | Technically, your "being retarded" case is the only reason to ever bother with "everything is an object" semantics~ |
| 22:17 | < [R]> | Arrays are slightly special in that regard |
| 22:17 | < [R]> | Not all implementations handle that case well. |
| 22:17 | <&McMartin> | I recall that varargs are also special-cased, but I'm not really using those |
| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | I'm mostly iterating through a shitload of reconfigurable data, some of which needs to be ordered, some of which doesn't |
| 22:18 | < [R]> | Oh, I also finally understood your query. |
| 22:19 | < [R]> | for (index in array) will also get you any functions that were added to the array prototype. |
| 22:19 | < [R]> | Certain libraries (ExtJS) will do this. |
| 22:19 | <&McMartin> | By experimentation it looks like the length property however does not show up |
| 22:19 | < [R]> | Yes, length is made uniterable. |
| 22:19 | <&McMartin> | I've mostly been being careful about checking iterate-over-object-used-as-map with hasOwnProperty |
| 22:21 | <@Shiz> | JS: even iteration has to be hard |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | To be fair, still fewer keystrokes than C++ |
| 22:22 | <&McMartin> | There's only two aspects of JS I'd consider Unambiguously Wrong as opposed to Consistent But Probably Not What You Were Expecting |
| 22:23 | <@Shiz> | i really hope weak typing is one of them |
| 22:24 | <&McMartin> | No, that's Ambiguously Wrong |
| 22:24 | <&McMartin> | Also depending on where you came from, it may be What You Were Expecting |
| 22:24 | <&McMartin> | function scope for variables and automatic creation of globals on defining undeclared variables. |
| 22:24 | <@Shiz> | don't many people praise JS's scope because it took it from scheme or something |
| 22:25 | < [R]> | Autoglobals sucks yeah |
| 22:25 | <&McMartin> | Shiz: getting to that |
| 22:25 | <&McMartin> | Replace "globals" with "locals" and "function" with "block" and then you are straddling Python and Scheme, and several of the really ugly bits that burn people in JS also evaporate |
| 22:26 | <@Shiz> | python has no block scope |
| 22:26 | <@Shiz> | only function scope |
| 22:26 | <@Shiz> | :P |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | I did say "straddling" |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | Python does not have the full Scheme semantics for its internal functions either |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | JS does, which is why you can use function definitions to trivially implement private object memebers. |
| 22:27 | <@Shiz> | like globals() and locals()? |
| 22:27 | <@Shiz> | ;p |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | "block" here means "like C", if this isn't clear. |
| 22:27 | <@Shiz> | no, i understand what a block means |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | Except with the necessary variation from C that lets returning an internally defined function work |
| 22:28 | <&McMartin> | C assumes that stack frames all live on, well, a stack, and that once you return from a function you don't need that stack frame anymore |
| 22:28 | <&McMartin> | That's not true for JS for the same reason it's not true for Lisp (or Haskell or F# or) |
| 22:28 | <@Shiz> | obviously |
| 22:29 | <@Shiz> | or any languages that has closures |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | The part where JS burns people is basically that loop variables get reassigned instead of rebound |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | So the infamous thing where you do something like for (i = 0; ...) { a[i] = function() { something referring to i; } } |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | And then all your functions after the loop return the same wrong value |
| 22:29 | <@Shiz> | oh, fun |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | You can make that happen in Lisp too, but the natural way to write stuff in Lisp means it ends up not happening when you write it the natural way |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | Not so for JS and it's because of the "function scope for all variables" rules, in effect. |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | As with all Lisp descended things, the solution is to add Another Function Call~ |
| 22:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: re: dynamic loading of JS: the approach ss1map uses is just to dynamically create a <script> element and it works ok: https://github.com/ToxicFrog/ss1edit/blob/master/maps/init.js#L22 |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | TF: Yeah, there are some disadvantages there for my case specifically, though |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | (Those elements are loaded asynchronously) |
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| --- Log closed Mon Mar 16 00:00:23 2015 |