| --- Log opened Tue Mar 10 00:00:47 2015 |
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| 00:33 | <&Derakon> | I like how the clock features quantum tunneling~ |
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| 01:18 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, there's a little bit of mess |
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| 02:44 | <@Reiv> | I am impressed enough I forgive the coding bugs |
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| 09:16 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. |
| 09:17 | < abudhabi> | I've got a table of records. Each is a message, and has just one recipient. When sending to multiple recipients, several messages that differ mostly by recipient are created. |
| 09:18 | < abudhabi> | There is also a group-sending functionality. Write in the group name, and messages for each individual member of the group gets a copy. These get their own records. |
| 09:18 | < abudhabi> | How would I go about displaying those group-sent messages as one message? |
| 09:19 | < abudhabi> | In the frontend, I mean. |
| 09:19 | < abudhabi> | Preferrably in some way that's easy to translate from the database layout. |
| 09:19 | | * abudhabi pokes Reiv the database-optimizer. |
| 09:45 | <@TheWatcher> | (why not have a single message, and associate one or more recipients with that message row (so, one table for messages (id, message text, etc), another table that has message recipients (id, message_id, recipient address)) |
| 09:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Or one table for messages, one for recipients, and one associating recipients with messages |
| 09:46 | <@TheWatcher> | (id, message text, etc), (id, message_id, recipient_id), (id, recipient address) |
| 09:47 | <@TheWatcher> | That way you'd always have one message, regardless of whether it had one recipient or a thousand |
| 09:51 | < abudhabi> | Because that would require reworking of the database structure upon which the app is built. Possible, but time and effort consuming. |
| 09:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Egh. Well, do the dupicate messages have some kind of shared, preferably integer field (some kind of common ID, timestamp, or the like?) so tha tyou can use a GROUP BY on them? |
| 09:56 | <@TheWatcher> | You could group by the message text, provided that's the same between messages, but group by on text is slower |
| 09:56 | <&Reiver> | what's all this then |
| 09:56 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi working with a database that isn't in 3NF~ |
| 09:57 | <&Reiver> | So the database is already built, and is in bad form? |
| 09:57 | < abudhabi> | TheWatcher: Not at present, but that's possible to add, as an optional field. |
| 09:57 | <&Reiver> | You can force a certain amount of normal-form using prperly crafted SQL. |
| 09:57 | <&Reiver> | Skip group by, use DISTINCT and keep your columns carefully tuned. |
| 09:58 | <&Reiver> | Many database engines can cheat on DISTINCT where they can't on GROUP BY due to retard reasons; even if they don't it's easier to maintain when that's fundamentally the command you're using. |
| 09:58 | | * TheWatcher still votes for renormalising; it may be more effort to begin with, but it'll almost certainly be less kludgy and easier to work with in the long run |
| 09:59 | <&Reiver> | Don't worry about speed until the query proves to be chugging, it should be a fairly simple one at this point. |
| 09:59 | <&Reiver> | If it is a database you're *allowed* to normalise, go for it |
| 09:59 | <&Reiver> | That said, sometimes you're breaking normal form in the name of logging |
| 09:59 | <&Reiver> | And that's a different kettle of fish altogether. |
| 09:59 | <&Reiver> | (I am not sure if this is not currently a corporate database or the like.) |
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| 10:00 | < abudhabi> | We also break normal form in order not to have million-item JOINS. |
| 10:00 | <&Reiver> | what database dialect? |
| 10:00 | < abudhabi> | MySQL. |
| 10:00 | <&Reiver> | hm I don't know how the optimisations work on that one |
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| 10:01 | <&Reiver> | I would be inclined to craft a view, if this is a thing you need repeatedly |
| 10:01 | <&Reiver> | And run it once, see how long it takes. |
| 10:02 | < abudhabi> | Yeah, a view might be a good idea in general. (Never understood what views were or what they were used for when taught that in university.) |
| 10:02 | <&Reiver> | Views are "Take a single bit of SQL that you'd use in several places and be able to talk to it as if it was a table" |
| 10:02 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi: that's because most uni database courses are shit~ |
| 10:03 | <&Reiver> | Think of them like functions in your code - they still need to be *calculated*, but it's providing commonality and means fixing a bug in one place propigates through the rest |
| 10:03 | <@TheWatcher> | (usually taught by someone who gets a hardon for obscure elational algebra and has never touched a real databas ein theri bloody life) |
| 10:03 | <&Reiver> | Also, depending on the SQL dialect, the servers can optimise views by caching results, etc |
| 10:03 | <@TheWatcher> | *relational |
| 10:04 | <&Reiver> | Either way it makes your life easier, and possibly faster |
| 10:04 | < abudhabi> | TheWatcher: (I still got through the class in the same way I use Javascript nowadays. I look for an example, make modifications and pray it works, without understanding how it works, repeat as needed.) |
| 10:04 | <&Reiver> | Both are worthy goals. |
| 10:04 | <&Reiver> | Wheras I am getting close to SQL Guru; my main failing is I don't know enough obscure tricks at this point~ |
| 10:05 | <&Reiver> | Alas, I can't even write Hello World in python, so yeah >_> |
| 10:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, I note that MySQL doesn't cache views, at least not as far as I can tell |
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| 10:08 | <&Reiver> | TheWatcher: Ah well |
| 10:09 | <&Reiver> | Depending on how often this query is needed, and the size vs power of the database, it may or may not be an issue |
| 10:09 | <&Reiver> | Again, i don't actually know wheher this is a prototype database or a mature one, etc |
| 10:09 | <@TheWatcher> | If query performance is important, some quality time with EXPLAIN [EXTENDED] is a Good Thing |
| 10:10 | <@TheWatcher> | signs I haven't had enough tea: |
| 10:10 | <@TheWatcher> | chris@azad ~/dashboard/dashboard $ eamcs & |
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| 10:37 | < Tarinaky_> | http://rantonels.github.io/starless/ |
| 10:47 | <@TheWatcher> | "While it's certainly debatable whether Nolan's Interstellar was actually watchable, not to mention accurate, we can certainly thank the blockbuster for popularizing the particular way the image of an accretion disk is distorted." snrrk |
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| 11:50 | | * abudhabi spends an hour learning that comparing a Long and a Long is different from comparing a Long and a long or a long and a long. |
| 11:52 | < Tarinaky_> | What about comparing a long long and a long? |
| 11:53 | < Tarinaky_> | Or an unsigned long long guisarme-long. |
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| 12:37 | < RchrdB> | abudhabi: yeah, Java's semantics suck like that. |
| 12:38 | < RchrdB> | The primitive vs boxed numbers distinction is *almost* papered over by auto-(un)boxing but not quite. |
| 13:28 | <@iospace> | code comment of the day: "don't like this, it can write to naughty places" |
| 14:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | My experience with Java's auto(un)boxing is that it works everywhere except in places where it would actually make the code clearer. |
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| 18:43 | < RchrdB> | FUCKING DISTRIBUTE. |
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| 20:34 | < RchrdB> | This is glorious: https://speakerdeck.com/a_matsuda/the-recipe-for-the-worlds-largest-rails-monoli th |
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| 22:19 | | * TheWatcher sighs, tries to get his mind into the brain of the weirdo who wrote this code |
| 22:20 | <@Tamber> | Yourself from 2 weeks ago? |
| 22:20 | <@TheWatcher> | Worse. Me from september last year. |
| 22:21 | <@Tamber> | Oh dear. |
| 22:21 | <@TheWatcher> | It's okay, it's only c++ ¬¬ |
| 22:22 | <@Alek> | ... |
| 22:22 | | * Alek gives TW a bottle of Jim. |
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| 22:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Thanks, but I don't drink ;) |
| 22:26 | <@Alek> | huh. another coder who doesn't drink. how do you cope? :P |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | Violence, mostly |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | (I'm one too) |
| 22:29 | <@Alek> | :P |
| 22:29 | <@Alek> | violence here too. |
| 22:29 | <@Alek> | lot of shooter games. >_> |
| 22:30 | < [R]> | Yup. |
| 22:30 | < [R]> | Ive a bottle of vodka thatll probably last my life. |
| 22:31 | <@Reiv> | Vodka is *awesome* for cleaning whiteboards |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | Fencing, archery, and challenge videogames |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: Does it have the problem acetone does of devouring the finish? |
| 22:31 | <@Reiv> | Nope |
| 22:31 | <@Reiv> | As far as I could tell anyway |
| 22:31 | <@Reiv> | I didn't drink for my entire time at university |
| 22:32 | <@Reiv> | (which is ironic and kind of the wrong way round but there you go) |
| 22:33 | <@Alek> | it's probably also good for cleaning electrical contacts. and probably circuit boards too. |
| 22:34 | <@Alek> | especially the purer it is. |
| 22:34 | <@Alek> | just gotta completely dry it afterwards to get the water off, unless you're gonna distill it to higher proof. I think. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Mar 11 00:00:03 2015 |