| --- Log opened Sun Nov 10 00:00:24 2013 |
| --- Day changed Sun Nov 10 2013 |
| 00:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | Rather than making "the company" suffer while the people at the top can lay off a few hundred workers and keep taking their seven-figure paycheques home. |
| 00:01 | <@Namegduf> | I'm not comfortable with the idea of imposing punishments on people for things that happened three steps down the hierarchy from them. |
| 00:02 | <@Namegduf> | You'd need to be way, way more loose than you are for what's allowed to establish culpability in any other circumstance. |
| 00:02 | <@Namegduf> | I think people should only be punished for things they can be shown to have done. |
| 00:03 | <@Namegduf> | Showing incompetence is likely to be impossible in most cases because most of this stuff comes from system failures, not "operator failure" as it wer. |
| 00:03 | <@Namegduf> | *were. |
| 00:04 | <@Namegduf> | Failing to design the system *well enough* being valid reason for fining when how exactly you design such a system well is not understood, in the opinion of non-experts, is a concept that ought to terrify any programmer, I think. |
| 00:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | That did kind of sidetrack into a more general rant, yeah |
| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | I have long claimed that if you held software the standard to which you hold all other mission critical infrastructure, the end result would be "no software is ever released" |
| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | *to the standard |
| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | It might still be sold and distributed, but some way would be found to ensure that it was never actually released in a normal form. |
| 00:18 | <&McMartin> | It is fairly standard practice for even commercial software to explicitly disclaim implied warranties of merchantability and of fitness for a particular purpose as it is. |
| 00:18 | <&McMartin> | Which is to say, no guarantee is offered that it works at all or that it does what it says it does. |
| 00:23 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of things with no warranties of merchantability nor fitness for a particular purpose, the Lua scripting hooks in UQM should be merged to Master shortly, now that they've been confirmed to build on MinGW, OS X, and three flavors of Linux. |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | Yup, there it is. |
| 00:29 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 00:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | Woot |
| 00:30 | <&McMartin> | Which brings up a question of repository management etiquette! |
| 00:30 | <&McMartin> | Is it typical to delete remote branches after a feature has been merged? |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Depends on the project. I usually do, otherwise things eventually get cluttered. |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | What happens to people who had local tracking branches of the deleted branch? |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | And, (this is not relevant here, but I can imagine it) what if that local tracking branch had unpushed commits on it? |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | They keep their local tracking branches. Next time they fetch --prune, any local tracking branches corresponding to deleted branches on the remote are themselves deleted; local branches based on those will remain. |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er. Any remote-tracking branches are themselves deleted. |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | I assume that by "local tracking branch" you mean a local branch based from a remote-tracking branch; those will stay. |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | Er, right, my lack of hyphen there was important. |
| 00:45 | <&McMartin> | Yes. |
| 00:45 | <&McMartin> | Is fetch --prune the default for git pull? |
| 00:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | No. |
| 00:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | At present there is no way to prune via pull. |
| 00:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | 1.8.5 adds (will add?) a fetch.prune configuration option that makes it default-on and which both fetch and pull respect. |
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| 04:21 | <@Alek> | "We live in an era where we daily have to prove to robots that we're human." |
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| 05:03 | <@Alek> | "The next version of Windows should be 10, because we've already had 9x." |
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| --- Log closed Sun Nov 10 06:13:23 2013 |
| --- Log opened Sun Nov 10 06:23:30 2013 |
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| 07:52 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh. DNS isn't working again :/ |
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| 09:11 | <@froztbyte> | when your things work again, you should install drill |
| 09:11 | <@froztbyte> | it's in ldns-utils |
| 09:11 | <@froztbyte> | and then you can debug what's broken |
| 09:12 | <@froztbyte> | also relevant: http://dnsreactions.tumblr.com/post/53919990746/debugging-with-nslookup-or-host |
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| 17:47 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh FUcking fuck latex with a fucking stick. |
| 17:47 | <@Tarinaky> | ! Undefined control sequence. |
| 17:47 | <@Tarinaky> | l.9 ...sum\limits_{x} \sum\limits_{y} p(x,y) \text |
| 17:47 | <@Tarinaky> | {log}$ |
| 17:48 | <@gnolam> | Tarinaky: "Fuck latex" is also known as "a condom". |
| 17:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Great. Now why isn't it accepting text as a control sequence :/ |
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| 18:25 | <@Tarinaky> | !(1/2) / (1/4) |
| 18:25 | <@Tarinaky> | !roll (1/2) / (1/4) |
| 18:33 | < simon_> | Tarinaky, \usepackage{amsmath}? |
| 18:34 | < simon_> | http://texblog.org/2008/10/01/adding-normal-text-into-formulas/ |
| 18:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Thanks. |
| 18:49 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 19:31 | | * Derakon takes a moment to sing the praises of source control, a.k.a. the only reason he dares try to get work done while sleep-deprived. |
| 19:56 | <@froztbyte> | https://twitter.com/BigDataBorat/status/381106878312230912 |
| 19:57 | <@froztbyte> | Derakon: reminds me of a thing I'd like to find now |
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| 20:01 | <&Derakon> | Hm? |
| 20:02 | <@froztbyte> | http://qdb.slipgate.za.net/FlyingCircus/252 |
| 20:03 | <&Derakon> | There, this looks rather nice. http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/mapmaker/withIncidentals.html |
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| 20:33 | | * Derakon ponders the maps, and how to go about representing the "level" of a region in a reasonably concise way. |
| 20:34 | <&Derakon> | That is to say, you start in level 0, when you bypass the first lock you move to level 1, etc. |
| 20:35 | <&Derakon> | Levels are not necessarily contiguous, since e.g. region 1 might be directly connected to region 6 for some out-of-the-way powerups. |
| 20:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Meritous does it just by shading the background color of the map. |
| 20:35 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, but I'm already using background color to denote the purpose of a given tile. |
| 20:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | You start out in white; the harder the area you're in the closer to dark blue it gets. |
| 20:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Number of spikes on the walls~ |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | (it uses glyphs for purpose, so colour is free for other things) |
| 20:36 | <&Derakon> | Granted, for the actual game background color can be used to indicate threat level. |
| 20:36 | <&Derakon> | This is for debugging. |
| 20:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 20:38 | <&Derakon> | http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/mapmaker/test.html is looking pretty busy already, TBQH~ |
| 20:41 | <&Derakon> | I'm pretty happy with it though; it looks like a legit Super Metroid map. |
| 20:42 | <&Derakon> | (Of course, the tricky bit will be filling in the contents of the rooms) |
| 20:53 | <@Alek> | use paranoia color coding >_> and glyphs for purpose. |
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| 20:54 | | * Alek notes that you could use glyph colors too, with a contrasting (black?) border to distinguish them from tile colors. |
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| 21:26 | <@Azash> | https://images.4chan.org/g/src/1384106574826.gif |
| 21:26 | <@Azash> | (SFW) |
| 21:27 | <@Tamber> | Oh, SICP? |
| 21:27 | <@Tamber> | Or the related lecture? |
| 21:28 | <@Azash> | Yeah, guessing it's something from OCW |
| 21:28 | <@Tamber> | I recognise the video. I'm sure I *have* it somewhere. |
| 21:31 | <@Tamber> | Aha, yes. 6.001. |
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| 21:41 | < AnnoDomini> | I am now curious about the context. |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | CS isn't a science, and it isn't about computers. It's a branch of applied philosophy. |
| 21:44 | < AnnoDomini> | Hah. I suppose so. |
| 21:47 | <@Azash> | What about maths? |
| 21:48 | < AnnoDomini> | That's theoretical astronomy. |
| 21:48 | < AnnoDomini> | (:V) |
| 21:48 | <@Azash> | Those dudes do use FORTRAN here.. |
| 21:50 | < ErikMesoy> | I recall Stanislav something (the Loper OS crank) arguing that computer makers have managed the incredible accomplishment of creating a field where science starts to fail. |
| 21:50 | < ErikMesoy> | The "laws of nature" around here are not just opaque but sometimes actively hidden or even outright malicious to the point of destroying your inspection tools. |
| 21:51 | < ErikMesoy> | That's not even getting into the vast array of phase-of-moon bugs that come and go at random intervals, schroedinbugs that disappear when you turn on the debugger, etc. |
| 21:52 | < AnnoDomini> | (Bugs disappearing in presence of a qualified professional, but occurring freely when in the presence of noobs. :D) |
| 21:54 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:55 | <@Azash> | My favourite bug was when Java wouldn't do a certain draw command inside of an if |
| 21:56 | <@Azash> | If I had just the draw command there, it worked, as soon as I put it inside if(true){} it stopped working |
| 22:04 | <@Reiv> | Computer Science is so much a branch of applied philosophy that it is what the university hands out as doctorates |
| 22:05 | <@Reiv> | You get a bachelor in compsci, hons in compsci, and then start doing masters & doctorates in philosophy |
| 22:05 | <@Reiv> | Which looks a little odd given they wear 17th century cape and cap for that particular qualification. |
| 22:05 | <&jerith> | Reiv: Masters is usually MSc. |
| 22:06 | <&jerith> | Apparently there are places that award a DSc, but I don't know of any offhand. |
| 22:07 | < AnnoDomini> | In Poland the field is in the engineering part of titles. |
| 22:08 | < AnnoDomini> | Engineer, Master Engineer, Doctor Engineer. |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | Operationally, it is a field of engineering, but a "Computer Engineer" in English, AFAIK, is someone who designs the silicon, etc. |
| 22:11 | <&McMartin> | So you have to overload it some~ |
| 22:11 | <&McMartin> | Programming can be a craft or a discipline; ideally CS would be to programming what mechanical and civil engineering, materials science, and physics are to carpentry. |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | That said, the video? It's from 6.001 |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | UC used the same course as its intro, so I can say with some confidence that one of the class's features is to level the people who have been programming since birth from the people who just walked in the door |
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| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | By focusing almost exclusively on the stuff they don't teach you in "programming" classes. |
| 22:13 | <@Reiv> | That's a good idea. |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | (And also by using a language the kids almost certainly did not use) |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | SICP's a really, really good book. |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | It's taught in Scheme, which as a language is about as close to pure mathematics as you can get without needing to build up a large body of expertise first. |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | One could imagine migrating the course to Python, given its contents; one could not do so for Haskell. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | Scheme works better than Python here because it's a more effective tool for cutting incoming freshmen down to size~ |
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| 22:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: "software engineer" is generally the term used. |
| 22:23 | <&McMartin> | Yes, but that opens a separate can of worms >_> |
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| 22:26 | < AnnoDomini> | In Polish, the name for "computer science" more cleanly translates into "informatics". |
| 22:28 | < ErikMesoy|sleep> | My university course in Norway is also "informatikk". |
| 22:41 | < AnnoDomini> | "We're going to conjure our spirits in a magical language called Lisp." |
| 22:42 | | * AnnoDomini laughs. |
| 22:55 | < AnnoDomini> | The guy at 7:00 looks like moot. |
| 23:02 | | * Derakon mutters at his display code, wonders why the wall display is fucking up the second time around. |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | "Informatics" is also the french word for it |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | And you see it occasionally in compounds. |
| 23:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Bioinformatics came up a lot at UG. |
| 23:11 | <&Derakon> | ...it's something to do with the way I'm determining what color to use :wtc: |
| 23:14 | <&Derakon> | ...okay, so somehow the code I inserted to ensure that every byte of the RGB color tuple (e.g. "#00FF00") has two characters in its output...somehow that is fucking up the wall display. |
| 23:14 | <&Derakon> | for i in xrange(3): if len(color[i]) == 1: color[i] = '0%s' % color[i] |
| 23:15 | <&Derakon> | If I comment that out, then I get properly-drawn walls. If I leave it in, then every cell has complete wallage. |
| 23:15 | <&Derakon> | What the christ. |
| 23:15 | <&Derakon> | ...oh. Oh. |
| 23:15 | <&Derakon> | Dur. |
| 23:15 | <&Derakon> | Re-used the "i" variable. |
| 23:16 | <&Derakon> | Right, http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/mapmaker/test.html now has a difficulty display, albeit a broken one because difficulty isn't getting set for each tile on the map properly. |
| 23:17 | <&Derakon> | ...and now that's fixed too. Hooray! |
| 23:48 | | * gnolam reads some backscroll. |
| 23:48 | <@gnolam> | <McMartin> UC used the same course as its intro, so I can say with some confidence that one of the class's features is to level the people who have been programming since birth from the people who just walked in the door |
| 23:49 | <@gnolam> | ^ that is in fact the exact reason my university used Scheme/SICP. |
| 23:50 | <@gnolam> | Except our professor had a slide with alternative reasons, such as "Kevin is too lazy to learn new course material" and "LiU has a secret agenda to keep the language alive".~ |
| 23:55 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: ... oh man, I wonder what learning Scheme as your first language does to ones coder habits |
| 23:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: you end up with a very functional accent and bitterly resent being forced to use other, lesser languages~ |
| 23:56 | <@Reiv> | snrk |
| --- Log closed Mon Nov 11 00:00:05 2013 |