| --- Log opened Fri Nov 01 00:00:17 2013 |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | Once you assume that votecounting electronically is trivial, I think you could do a "OK, the official votecounters will now check their work" |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | kind of thing |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | But you need a centralized trusted arbitrator at the end because ultimately there is one: the entity that's supposed to be respecting the result. |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | Whatever communicates that to the entity is the final arbiter. The "best" you can hope for is that it shows its work in ways private citizens can check |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | We may, barely, have just enough power now that this is a reasonable thing to do, but you still have social engineering attack points like restricting the franchise or attempting to render ballots invalid after casting. |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | Making it electronic merely changes which skills you use to do that. |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | Er, will now *show* their work, not check their work |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | Mmm |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | OK, the publishing with unique ID gets tricky because you can get companies blackmailing their workers |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | "Prove to us that you voted for the candidate the bosses want or we fire you" |
| 00:06 | <@Reiv> | NZ does paper votes, but the system could in theory be done electronically |
| 00:07 | <@Reiv> | Each vote paper has a unique ID that is stickered-over |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | CA switched to an electronic-prints-paper system largely for accessibility reasons |
| 00:07 | <@Reiv> | You then use said paper to cast your vote. |
| 00:07 | <@Reiv> | To recieve said paper, you have to be recorded as having voted at that voting station. |
| 00:07 | <@Reiv> | The numbers are sequential. |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | That sounds like a good system |
| 00:08 | <@Reiv> | So you know precisely how many votes *should* be there, because you can count how many papers were handed out |
| 00:08 | <@Reiv> | (Damaged papers can be returned and replaced, but IIRC there is a Process there too) |
| 00:08 | <@Reiv> | So they know you voted, and where |
| 00:08 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:08 | <@Reiv> | And they know how many votes there should be in the box |
| 00:09 | <@Reiv> | And they can line up the number of votes to the number of people, and (if needed) that each person only voted in one location |
| 00:09 | <@Reiv> | But they don't actually know which paper they gave you to vote with. |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 00:11 | <@Reiv> | So that solves voter privacy, single person multiple voting, and ballot destruction to a reasonable degree of compromise, I feel |
| 00:11 | <&McMartin> | The part where an "internet voting" scheme tends to fall down is that it's really, really hard to beat that voter register at the voting stating. |
| 00:11 | <@Reiv> | I mean, unless the vote came back 100% for one candidate, or 0 votes for someone you were meant to vote for |
| 00:12 | <@Reiv> | But you know that's kind of an edge case and we generally depend on Statistics to solve that one. |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Right |
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| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | One place where that gets messy is if the ballot is gigantic |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | As, say, CA's often is |
| 00:12 | | * AnnoDomini imagines Russian hackerinos writing viruses that infect USian machines and wait for the election. |
| 00:12 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, in NZ there are mid-weight restrictions on who goes on the ballot |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | AnnoDomini: Why imagine that when the US's leading manufacturer of voting machines openly stated they were pulling for a specific party to sweep wins |
| 00:12 | <@Reiv> | It costs Actual Money, and you don't get any campaign funding unless you pass a national threshold of votes |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: Yeah, that's not what I mean |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | I mean "When I vote in an election I'm simultaneously voting something like 20 positions, plus about a dozen direct referenda" |
| 00:13 | <@AnnoDomini> | McMartin: Russians will do it more cheaply! |
| 00:13 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: My main point is that these restrictions mean that the ballot tends to sit at about twenty-odd parties |
| 00:13 | <@Reiv> | Oh, I see |
| 00:14 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, we get two Political votes, and then a couple referenda, maybe. |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | (Elections tend to merge federal, state, and municipal level so that you only need to get people out once a year) |
| 00:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Ballots here still mess with Myst's head |
| 00:14 | <@Reiv> | (To get on teh vote they have to get enough petition signatures to begin with, and the threshold is not terribly light) |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | ... speaking of, there's an election next week, albeit a purely-municipal one. I should probably start doing my research for that. |
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| 00:14 | <@TheWatcher> | We vote on one or two political positions, that's it |
| 00:15 | <@Reiv> | Regional elections are by mail ballot. |
| 00:15 | <@Reiv> | This is obviously forgeable, but oh well etc |
| 00:15 | <@TheWatcher> | Referenda? Insanely huge thing for that to ever happen |
| 00:15 | <@Reiv> | TheWatcher: Haha yes, we vote on two; my Resident Californian still finds that weird |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | Several US states are vote-by-mail for *everything* |
| 00:15 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, referenda here are "There might be two on a paper for a given year, and that's kind of disconcerting" |
| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | (And most states will let you register to vote by mail regardless) |
| 00:16 | <@Reiv> | ... uh guys this isn't FLEET~ |
| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | This is about evoting! |
| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | It's totally code |
| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | And algorithms |
| 00:17 | <@AnnoDomini> | And hax. |
| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of e-voting, it turns out that my favored voting schema ends up being a slight variant on RateMyKitten.com -_- |
| 00:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Reiv: we've had 11 referenda since 1973~ |
| 00:18 | <&McMartin> | (Essentially, rate all candidates from 1-10. Note: *rate*, not *rank*. Whatever ratings you give get stretched out to cover the full range before being scored.) |
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| 00:21 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: Is there a point to anything but '10' and '1', then? |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: That depends~ |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | I think non-strategic voting is a form of throwing away your vote, so my inclination is both to say "no" and also "this is why I usually militate for approval voting" |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | But it seems like people get cranky when they can't have a second-place choice. |
| 00:23 | <&McMartin> | And, of course, for *non* elections like, oh, judging the IFcomp, or a competition full of kitten photos, a finer degree of judgement is useful. |
| 00:24 | <&McMartin> | (I'm in the US, and the approval voting algorithm happens to also mesh very well with the collection of historical accidents that is our election system, so this is another reason I favor it specifically) |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | (But the scaled-kitten-rating system -- I think the formal name is "normalized grading" -- is my preferred algorithm for basically *all* forms of mass selection.) |
| 00:25 | <@Reiv> | hn |
| 00:25 | <@Reiv> | I guess it has a point |
| 00:26 | <@Reiv> | It's hard, though. |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | Everything's Easier Than Condorcet~ |
| 00:26 | <@Reiv> | But then, STV is /awful/ and a plague apon the nations that use it, so best to avoid that too. |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | STV? |
| 00:26 | <@Reiv> | (Single Transferrable Vote; the australians use it. It's the ranked voting. Augh, augh, augh.) |
| 00:27 | <&McMartin> | (Oh. I know that system as "instant runoff") |
| 00:27 | <@Reiv> | ("There are a dozen parties on the list so you have to choose them all, ranked 1 to 12.") |
| 00:27 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, runoff-based systems tend to break horribly in the presence of three strong and nearly equally powerful parties and an even slightly cynical electorate |
| 00:27 | <&McMartin> | It's fine if you have two major parties and a bunch of minor ones |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | (Since people will tend to vote even the Kitten Skullfucker Party over the Sole Credible Rival in them) |
| 00:29 | <&McMartin> | STV breaks the everloving *shit* out of the US electoral college, so I have no worries about that ever coming to pass here~ |
| 00:29 | <@Reiv> | Yeah |
| 00:29 | <@Reiv> | They want to change our system ;_; |
| 00:29 | <@Reiv> | It is a silly idea. |
| 00:30 | <&McMartin> | OTOH, the US electoral college is also the convenient demonstration of the various paradoxes that occur with runoff systems. |
| 00:30 | <@Reiv> | Of course, this is simple voter manipulation |
| 00:30 | <&McMartin> | There's a punchy name for tha ttoo and I forget what it is. |
| 00:30 | <@Reiv> | We've had demands ever since we went to MMP to change it, because people are Rose Tinted Memories for FTP |
| 00:31 | <@Reiv> | So the government held a referendum to change the voting system! It said yes! |
| 00:31 | <&McMartin> | But it didn't say what to? |
| 00:31 | <@Reiv> | ... So now we're changing how we tick the boxes. Not the MMP. :P |
| 00:31 | <&McMartin> | I'm guessing FTP is first past the post, but MMP is actually an acronym I can't guess at. Proportional? |
| 00:32 | <@Reiv> | Mixed Member Proportional |
| 00:32 | <@Reiv> | In our case, 60 regional seats that work like senate seats or whatever ("I represent the East Ward of Hamilton") |
| 00:33 | <@Reiv> | And then 60 more that come from our second, 'party vote' - whereapon the dude who gets 40% of the party votes gets 40% of the 60 seats, with some methodical bits for edge case parties and seat rounding |
| 00:33 | <@Reiv> | They then all sit down in the same level of government. |
| 00:33 | | * McMartin nods |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure if that's so much a method of voting as it is a method of representation |
| 00:34 | <@Reiv> | And therein lies the joke. |
| 00:35 | <@Reiv> | "We hate MMP!" "Vote for us and we'll hold a referundum on our method of choosing governments!" "YES PLZ" "OK, we'll change the voting bit." "wait what" |
| 00:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | God, I wish we had MMP. |
| 00:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | FPTP sucks so relentlessly and pervasively I'm not sure why anyone would have rosy memories of it |
| 00:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | Unless they are politicians who owe their seats to gerrymandering, perhaps~ |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: Well, come to think of it, MMP would make the US Senate *even worse* |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | Actually, does anyone mind a change of subject? I have a design I want to bounce off the channel |
| 00:43 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | I'm getting into the weeds on Monocle's object model, and I'm trying to get it minimal enough to do the job it needs to without unduly constraining client code. |
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| 00:46 | <&McMartin> | Basically, I've got a sensible resource system at this point, so I can just handwave things like "sprite" and have that mean "and all the texture collation and frame information &c" |
| 00:46 | <&McMartin> | My idea for how a frame goes is that you have a high-level event loop that spews events at the client, and which it consumes and reacts to |
| 00:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:47 | <&McMartin> | There is a notion of game objects, but Monocle only knows super-basic things about them; location, velocity, hitbox, and which sprite to draw it with absent a user override. |
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| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: so, just quickly finishing up that thread - the reason MMP is attractive here is that we have like a 6 party system, but most of those get 0-2 seats despite routinely getting 5-10% of the vote, and thus have effectively no say in government. |
| 00:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | A frame's worth of events is: Pre-input, any input events that happened this frame (including stuff like "object X got clicked on", but most input events are global), pre-physics (the 'usual' update step), any collision or object-out-of-bounds events the basic kinematics generate, and then the rendering steps |
| 00:52 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: How large is your parliament? |
| 00:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Client - this is client-server? I thought Monocle was singleplyaer. |
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| 00:52 | <@Reiv> | (ToxicFrog: Which is precisely why we shifted to it) |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | "Client" here means "the people linking against monocle" |
| 00:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 00:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: 308 seats. |
| 00:53 | <&McMartin> | (Right, see, MMP would mean that the Tea Party would be uneradicable as an explicitly designed feature of the system) |
| 00:53 | <&McMartin> | I'm thinking game objects get classified into kinds, and a kind specifies a default sprite, and also specifies which of those events it overrides |
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| 00:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Hmm, way past Dunbar, not good. |
| 00:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | (yeah, the closest thing we have to the Tea Party that actually gets >1% of the vote is probably the Partie Quebecois, and they aren't anywhere near as bad) |
| 00:53 | <&McMartin> | And then you also have a kind-to-kind relation for what collisions are interesting that respects inheritance |
| 00:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | (whereas it's the left-wing parties like the Green Party and the NDP that get squeezed out) |
| 00:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | (er, Bloc Quebecois rather) |
| 00:56 | <&McMartin> | I've basically got two aspects of this design that seem like they might be unduly restrictive |
| 00:56 | <&McMartin> | First, I'm imagining kinds to have only single inheritance, and it's not clear if that's restrictive at all or even if it simplifies the design |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | Second, you'll notice there's no concept equivalent to game maker's "rooms" here |
| 00:58 | <&McMartin> | This is in part because the room abstraction kept getting in my grill when I tried to implement things like pause and status menus |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | Is there any reason you can think of that I can't devolve that stuff wholly to the client? I could optimize it by allowing you to snapshot object sets and build active sets out of those. |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | (This would also mean that you wouldn't need one copy of the player object per level; it could be at some persistent level the client doesn't dispose of) |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | I think it makes sense to have the state machine for "what does input mean here" be part of the client engine, and it seems like I get that for "free" simplly by making input be a global event. |
| 01:03 | <@Reiv> | That seems broadly reasonable |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | A C++ application could have a class for interpreting that stuff - a GameMode class or something, and you could shift between them according to a state machine |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | (Rendering is, itself, about three steps) |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | One major feature GM has that this lacks is automatic support for "views" |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | I think I'm holding off on that until I shift to the SDL2 backend, which has automatic whole-window rotozoom |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | My first test for all of this is basically going to be a simulation of a carnival boardwalk shooting gallery, but I'm up for suggestions for super-simple games to implement as demos |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | Views? |
| 01:06 | <@Reiv> | A simple test: A card game. |
| 01:06 | <@Reiv> | Hell, implement War! if you must. >_> |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | OK, so, it also should actually test things like the basic physics engine and collision detection~ |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | Views: did you play Iji? |
| 01:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | Reiv: Air War! :P |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | Physics engine and collision detection: Breakout. |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | I love breakout. <3 |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | AnnoDomini: Is that where you take the deck and throw it at the other guy? |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | I'm leaning towards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibFejsipSC8 right now |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | Breakout has a set of controls I'm trying to avoid directly implementing. ;-) |
| 01:09 | <@Reiv> | ... mouse? |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | Pretty much |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | Aw. |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | But mouse is <3 |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | Though also, Breakout has some hidden Difficult Design Problems. |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | Oh, mouse *in general* has to be in |
| 01:11 | <@AnnoDomini> | Reiv: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Air_War |
| 01:11 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: Tell me about these problems then |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | But if the goal is "so, you're writing a 2D game, here's some code to steal to get started", Breakout Isn't That. |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | Because "the player character is at the mouse's X position" is only your control scheme if you're playing breakout. |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | The problem with writing Breakout is that getting a good playable bounce physics is really hard. |
| 01:12 | < Syka_> | you use mouse for breakout? |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | It isn't actually "reflect as off a mirror" |
| 01:12 | < Syka_> | huh |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | Syka_: Yeah, since PCs don't have dials, which is the True Control Scheme. |
| 01:13 | < Syka_> | i use the keyboard, now i feel like some variety of freak <v< |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | The arguments that apply to mouse supremacy for FPSen also apply to breakout, as it happens~ |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, that's fair |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | Oh well, it was an idea~ |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | Hey |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | Throw together Sable 2D |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | Only with an end |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | ... ahaha, I remember hearing about this one: |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | That's two phases down~ |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | A shooter where enemies spawn at the rate you kill the old ones. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | I want something with a "screen" instead of a "map" this time, so any shmup will be more like Galaga. |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | They also aggressively shoot back. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | I mean, I could port Target Acquired to Monocle. That would actually probably even be worthwhile. |
| 01:15 | | * Reiv thinks |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | That could work well. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | It's kind of hilarous how a piece of high school juvenilia keeps getting reimplemented~ |
| 01:16 | <@Reiv> | Because it's a good thing to reimplement? |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Not really. It's a bad game on several grounds |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | But it's good at Hitting The Bases |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Maybe this time it can do a mix of inertial and non-inertial enemies |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey, it's also not online anymore |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, views. Did you play Iji? Or, I guess, Hotline Miami or Gunpoint |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | Basically, Game Maker has a concept of "Rooms", but a "Room" is really closer to an "entire level", not "a screen" |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | A view is a subset of the room that is what is drawn to the screen. For a scrolling game like Iji, it follows the character around. For a flipscrolling game like Hero Core or Dapper Delver, it stays static and jumps a screen at a time as needed. |
| 01:22 | <@Reiv> | Hotline Miami and Gunpoint, yes |
| 01:23 | <@Reiv> | Oh, you mean "The bit that is on screen but not actually the entire level"? |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
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| 01:23 | <@Reiv> | Because I have also played Volgarr The Viking, Duke Nukem, and Commander Keen~ |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Yes, but those were not Actually Written In Game Maker. |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Views also include "the window is 1920x1080, but the viewport is 640x480, zoom and pillarbox that, would you" |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Which SDL2 has as a primitive, so I'm holding off on this until I do the SDL2 conversion |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | And that's a prerequisite for sensible scrolling maps, so~ |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | I haven't actually decided yet whether I want tilemaps to be part of the Monocle engine or something that the client is responsible for doing. |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | I'm leaning towards the latter because there are so many ways one can do it. |
| 01:34 | <@Reiv> | So non-scrolling maps, OK |
| 01:34 | <@Reiv> | And a physics engine. |
| 01:35 | <@Reiv> | Donkey kong~ |
| 02:14 | <&McMartin> | Oof. My code turns out to not be 32-bit clean |
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| 02:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Awkward. |
| 02:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | You monster. |
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| 02:43 | < Syka_> | I... hm. |
| 02:43 | < Syka_> | my bank noticed I hadnt used an account for six months, that had nothing in it |
| 02:43 | < Syka_> | so they closed it for me |
| 02:43 | <@AnnoDomini> | Sounds bankish. |
| 02:44 | < Syka_> | ...not sure if I should be happy that now I don't have to do it myself, or slightly scared that some code somewhere has a timer and a shutDownAccount() function |
| 02:46 | <&McMartin> | It's probably written in COBOL! |
| 02:47 | < Syka_> | McMartin: i know for a fact it is |
| 02:47 | < Syka_> | Commonwealth Bank is a Tier 1 bank |
| 02:48 | < Syka_> | iirc all of the tier 1s use cobol extensively :( |
| 02:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | Did they bill you the operation fee? |
| 02:48 | < Syka_> | ...also, some store is selling DAS Model S' |
| 02:49 | < Syka_> | with a free wireless KB worth $55 |
| 02:49 | < Syka_> | as someone In Business, I now want to know how fucking large their margins are to do that |
| 02:49 | < Syka_> | or, how desperate they are to clear DAS stock |
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| 02:50 | < Syka_> | since slightly less money than starting is better than no money and stock nobody wants |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | When you start it up does it say DAS BOOT |
| 02:52 | < Syka_> | ...it's a keyboard |
| 02:52 | < Syka_> | ...so if it boots up |
| 02:52 | < Syka_> | it must be a NSA Board |
| 02:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | McMartin: Once, I managed to hit a plane with the anti-ship cannon. Once. |
| 02:53 | < Syka_> | embedded Big Brother Functionality, for typing in the Cloud®! |
| 02:54 | <@Reiv> | ... Oooh. A Nexus 5, eh? |
| 02:54 | <@Reiv> | That could very well compete with my phonemoneys, which has previously gone exclusively toward the Galaxy S. |
| 02:55 | <&McMartin> | Also, wait |
| 02:55 | <&McMartin> | Reiv, why have you not played Iji |
| 02:55 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: I played it briefly, and didn't enjoy it. |
| 02:55 | <@Reiv> | I was also expecting your analogy to be, uh, more detailed~ |
| 02:56 | <&McMartin> | It's more "'Rooms' aren't." |
| 02:56 | <&McMartin> | There are tricks you're supposed to be able to do with views that would make it more detailed, but none of them frickin' work |
| 02:56 | <&McMartin> | So, "yeah, views are the thing those games use to do autoscrolling" |
| 02:57 | < Syka_> | the n5 looks interesting |
| 02:57 | < Syka_> | they didnt release 4.4 for the gnex (my phone) |
| 02:57 | < Syka_> | :( |
| 02:57 | <&McMartin> | (It's *supposed* to let you do picture-in-picture like the Descent missile cam, but that doesn't work) |
| 02:58 | <@Reiv> | (Because of Glitching, or?) |
| 02:58 | <@Reiv> | Syka: Yeah, it's why Nexus tempts me so |
| 02:58 | < Syka_> | min 2-3 week shipping delay now |
| 02:58 | <&McMartin> | (Objects not appearing where they should, major performance penalties, occasionally Just A Black Rectangle That Does Nothing, etc) |
| 02:58 | < Syka_> | fucking hell google |
| 02:58 | < Syka_> | learn to fucking stock |
| 02:58 | <@Reiv> | Samsung is awful at maintaining software updates; this is doublebad when they're the biggest smartphone maker for android. |
| 02:58 | | Harlow [Harlow@Nightstar-2dbe3d64.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 02:59 | < Harlow> | any advice on when to use a Virtual bool over a regular bool? |
| 02:59 | <@Reiv> | A whatnow? |
| 02:59 | | ktemkin[work] is now known as ktemkin[afk] |
| 02:59 | <&McMartin> | Can you quote the entire line you're usin ghere? |
| 03:00 | < Syka_> | Reiv: they also add such an ugly shell on it |
| 03:00 | < Syka_> | ughhhh dealing with galaxy or htcs makes me sad |
| 03:00 | < Harlow> | C++, bool Button::checkPosition(int x,int y) |
| 03:00 | <@Reiv> | I don't mind the shell. The Nexus approach is hardly flawless. |
| 03:01 | < Harlow> | VS. virtual bool Button::checkPosition(int x,int y) |
| 03:01 | <@Reiv> | I mind a lot more that no-one sodding upgrades the stuff. |
| 03:01 | < Syka_> | everything is in a shitty place and looks "omg so inspired by nature" or "inspired by carbon fibre" im htcs case |
| 03:01 | < Syka_> | Reiv: samsung have been slightly less shit recently |
| 03:01 | < Syka_> | i think they have 4.2 on the SII now? |
| 03:03 | <@Reiv> | Serious? |
| 03:03 | <@Reiv> | Man. |
| 03:03 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: OK, so that "virtual" modifies checkPosition, not bool |
| 03:03 | <@Reiv> | I have the SI so I'm still on 2.33 >_> |
| 03:03 | < Harlow> | oh |
| 03:03 | <&McMartin> | A virtual method is one that's overridable by subclasses. |
| 03:03 | <&McMartin> | It looks like you're studying C++. Have you gotten to the bits about inheritance yet? |
| 03:04 | < Harlow> | I haven't exclusively covered inheritance yet. |
| 03:04 | < Syka_> | Reiv: cyanogenmod |
| 03:04 | < Syka_> | Reiv: i believe there is 4.1 for SI |
| 03:07 | < Syka_> | supports cm 10.2 |
| 03:07 | < Syka_> | which is... android 4.3 |
| 03:07 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, but I was avoiding rooting it |
| 03:07 | <@Reiv> | It's getting shaky enough as it is :p |
| 03:07 | < Syka_> | 10.2 is still nightly |
| 03:07 | < Syka_> | but 10.1 is stable |
| 03:07 | <&McMartin> | Harlow: OK. "Virtual" is intimately tied up with the notion of inheritance, so for now, there's no difference. |
| 03:07 | < Syka_> | heh |
| 03:08 | < Syka_> | well, it's a complete wipe |
| 03:08 | < Syka_> | so stability depends on your hardware~ |
| 03:08 | <&McMartin> | The two rules you need now are "if you're subclassing some other class, copy the virtual-ness of the method you're replacing", and "if *any other* method is virtual, the destructor should be virtual." |
| 03:08 | <&McMartin> | The rest will come when you get to inheritance. |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey wait, this demo code I'm writing can play any MOD-like file. |
| 03:17 | | * McMartin swaps that out for the Crusader No Remorse soundtrack for himself. |
| 03:21 | < Syka_> | http://3v4l.org/XXbtf |
| 03:21 | | * Syka_ bursts into laughter |
| 03:22 | <~Vornicus> | syka_: !? |
| 03:23 | < Syka_> | php <3 |
| 03:25 | <@AnnoDomini> | Dafuq. |
| 03:31 | <@Alek> | wat |
| 03:31 | <@Alek> | look at the performance tab. |
| 03:32 | <@Alek> | a 2-line php script uses multiple MiBs? |
| 03:32 | < Syka_> | Alek: PHP! |
| 03:32 | < Syka_> | because RAM is cheap! |
| 03:33 | <@Alek> | and of course it has different output in different versions. |
| 03:33 | <@Alek> | this is the best argument yet to stay FAR away from php. |
| 03:33 | | * Thalass|codemonkey reads up |
| 03:33 | < Syka_> | why has nobody written a php interpreter in node.js |
| 03:34 | < Syka_> | so that we can funnel all the horrible people to one framework |
| 03:34 | < Syka_> | note: if there is a php interpreter in node.js, PLEASE DON'T TELL ME |
| 03:34 | < Syka_> | i would prefer to be just sick, rather than sick and inconsolably miserable |
| 03:35 | <@Alek> | out of the listed versions, looks like 4.3.1 was the least resource-intensive. |
| 03:35 | <@Alek> | I hesitate to say most efficient. |
| 03:36 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | The galaxy nexus is a nexus, so samsung's arsehattery shouldn't interfere with the availability of updates. |
| 03:36 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: yes |
| 03:37 | < Syka_> | but theres an 18 month limit to google updates |
| 03:37 | < Syka_> | so theyve axed the gnex, which is 22 months old |
| 03:37 | < Syka_> | oh well, cyanogenmod will provide |
| 03:38 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Oh, i didn't know that. I got sick of waiting for Android 4.1 to come to my GNote, so i put CM on it. Now i'm enjoying 4.3 with only a few horrible glitches - which have just served to teach me to not be so update-happy with nightlies. :P |
| 03:38 | < Syka_> | haha |
| 03:38 | < Syka_> | i ran the cm 10.1 nightly gauntlet for months on two devices |
| 03:39 | < Syka_> | never again :( |
| 03:40 | | * Alek shudders. |
| 03:40 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | I just keep myself a few days behind the latest, and check the xda forums for major complaints before updating. |
| 03:40 | <@Alek> | this is one of the reasons I don't volunteer for more betas. |
| 03:40 | <@Alek> | although I AM hoping to get into the Steam beta. |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | ugh. so goddamn sick. |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | maybe i should have today off |
| 03:41 | <@Alek> | when is the decision, does anyone know? |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | Alek: which steam beta |
| 03:41 | <@Alek> | or did it already happen and I wasn't told? ;_; |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | i'm in the steam beta |
| 03:41 | <@Alek> | steamos+steambox+steamcontroller |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | oh |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | that's not the steam beta then |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | that's the steambox beta |
| 03:41 | < Syka_> | (there is a "steam beta") |
| 03:41 | <@Alek> | ... |
| 03:42 | <@Alek> | what's that? |
| 03:42 | < Syka_> | steam client beta |
| 03:42 | < Syka_> | if you used steamonlinux |
| 03:42 | <@Alek> | oh. that. |
| 03:42 | <@Alek> | ohh. |
| 03:42 | < Syka_> | you get to be a full beta person |
| 03:42 | < Syka_> | which means ~magical crashy client~ |
| 03:42 | < Syka_> | currently looks pretty shiny tho |
| 03:42 | | * Alek doesn't regularly run linux. only when there's a huge problem with his machine booting, mainly. |
| 03:43 | <@Alek> | like when my last main disk failed. :/ |
| 03:43 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Damnit now i want to update Planetary Annihilation and blow some beta bots :P |
| 03:43 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | *blow UP |
| 03:44 | < Syka_> | i didnt realise you swung the mechanical way |
| 03:44 | < Syka_> | just remember WD40 is your friend |
| 03:44 | < Syka_> | but yeah, steam is doing pretty ok on linux right now |
| 03:44 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | *snerk* |
| 03:45 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Yeah it's totally the Year Of The Linux Desktop now. >.> |
| 03:45 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | (but it works well for me) |
| 03:45 | < Syka_> | hm, so |
| 03:45 | < Syka_> | nexus 5, 16GB, $400 AUD |
| 03:45 | <@Alek> | ... |
| 03:46 | <@Alek> | 16GB? heresy. |
| 03:46 | | * AnnoDomini appreciates Word 2010 in comparison with OOO. |
| 03:46 | | * Alek cuddles his Note3. |
| 03:46 | < Syka_> | Alek: my gnex is 16GB |
| 03:46 | < Syka_> | i have no problems with that size :P |
| 03:46 | <@Alek> | ah, then you're used to it. XD |
| 03:46 | <@Alek> | have fun. |
| 03:46 | < Syka_> | the 32GB is $450 |
| 03:46 | < Syka_> | Alek: heh |
| 03:46 | < Syka_> | i don't use ~any~ space |
| 03:46 | <@Alek> | I just wish I could get the 64GB version. oh well, at least it supports my microSD cards. |
| 03:46 | | * Thalass|codemonkey eyes Alek |
| 03:46 | < Syka_> | lessee, storage |
| 03:46 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | waaaant Gnote3 |
| 03:47 | < Syka_> | total space, 13gb, 1.57gb free |
| 03:47 | < Syka_> | hmm |
| 03:47 | | * Alek got it the day before US release. |
| 03:47 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | my Gnote is showing its age somewhat. |
| 03:47 | < Syka_> | oh, most of it is cache |
| 03:47 | < Syka_> | and updates i havent deleted |
| 03:47 | <@Alek> | it was supposed to be out on Oct 3. we went to the Tmobile store on the evening of the 2nd, and got one each for my brother and me. |
| 03:47 | < Syka_> | wow |
| 03:47 | < Syka_> | the n4 is $300 now |
| 03:48 | < Syka_> | the 8gb is $250 |
| 03:48 | <@Alek> | o_o |
| 03:48 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | My phone contract doesn't expire until March, but if i get a pay rise soon i might just buy at Gnote outright. |
| 03:48 | < Syka_> | "At only 130 g and 8.59 mm thin, itâs the most powerful Nexus phone yet." |
| 03:48 | < Syka_> | google is doing apple-style non-sequiters again |
| 03:48 | | * Alek would have his 32GB full if it weren't for the card. music, some music videos, ebooks (ha, those are a pittance), and a handful of apps. a huge handful. |
| 03:48 | < Syka_> | stop it google |
| 03:48 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Though i've read that the Gnote3 has an issue where Samsung are being dicks. Namely: If you buy the phone in one region, you will be charged roaming rates in other regions even if you put a local sim card in. This is unacceptable. |
| 03:49 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Yeah Google. Don't Be Evil, remember? |
| 03:49 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: why would you buy *any* phone that isnt unlocked |
| 03:49 | < Syka_> | seriously |
| 03:49 | < Syka_> | although |
| 03:49 | <@Alek> | Thal: Tmobile has no-roaming-charges in most of the world, looks like. so there's that. |
| 03:49 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | This is separate to unlockedness, iirc. |
| 03:49 | < Syka_> | in the US, you guys are kinda fucked |
| 03:49 | < Syka_> | because every 2nd carrier uses a different standard |
| 03:50 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | I'll have to do more research etc later on. |
| 03:50 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: you mean that the bought outright phones aren't unlocked? |
| 03:50 | < Syka_> | wat |
| 03:51 | <@Alek> | well, not really. we have about 4 major networks, hosted by the 4 major carriers, with all the minor ones hitching rides on the major ones' networks. |
| 03:51 | < Syka_> | well, I guess thats similar here |
| 03:51 | < Syka_> | at least |
| 03:51 | < Syka_> | when you're a derp |
| 03:51 | <@Alek> | then we have a dozen standards that are cherrypicked by the various providers. |
| 03:51 | < Syka_> | ohhh |
| 03:51 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: you're aussie |
| 03:51 | < Syka_> | give me a second, i have something you'd like then |
| 03:52 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | k |
| 03:52 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: are you in a 4G area? |
| 03:53 | < Syka_> | well, everyone should be soon |
| 03:53 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/samsung-galaxy-note-3-n9005-4g-lte-32gb-black/ |
| 03:53 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: $729, free shipping, unlocked |
| 03:53 | | * Alek is SO thankful he doesn't live in the great plains proper, the northwest, or the southwest except for cali. those guys are SCREWED when it comes to coverage. |
| 03:53 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Bah. I'm in a known black spot, because all the nearby towers are on the wrong side of the hill to my house, or are just visible over the rooftops but i suspect the tin is scrambling the signal enough to make it unreliable. |
| 03:54 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 03:54 | < Syka_> | Telstra won't even sell you a GN3 |
| 03:54 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | oooo shiny. |
| 03:54 | < Syka_> | it appears |
| 03:54 | <@Alek> | we have 3 or 4 towers within a mile from here, we can SEE them from our windows easily, but... the first floor has erratic signal. |
| 03:54 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Neither do virgin, i just checked. :P |
| 03:54 | | * Thalass|codemonkey nods. |
| 03:55 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | And signal boosters are illegal in oz. bah |
| 03:55 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: well, this is unlocked, so |
| 03:55 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: actually, they're not! |
| 03:55 | <@Alek> | heh |
| 03:55 | < Syka_> | http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/nextivity-cel-fi-3g-repeater-booster/ |
| 03:55 | < Syka_> | there is *one* legal one |
| 03:55 | < Syka_> | and it's $750 :D |
| 03:56 | <@Alek> | anyone remember those antennas you could slip over your cell phone antenna? or the ones you screwed in place of it, if you could unscrew the old one? |
| 03:56 | <@Alek> | or for that matter, the antenna films you could attach inside the battery cover? XD |
| 03:56 | < Syka_> | nope :( |
| 03:56 | < Syka_> | i remember the little gsm sticker things |
| 03:56 | < Syka_> | that would flash within range of gsm |
| 03:56 | <@Alek> | old stuff. when you still had fixed or pull-up cell phone antennas. |
| 03:57 | < Syka_> | Alek: I am not that old unfortunately :< |
| 03:57 | <@Alek> | oh, those flashing stickers... first I've heard of those. XD |
| 03:57 | <@Alek> | Syka... I am. ;_; |
| 03:57 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/27/samsung_galaxy_regionlocking_saga_gets_m urky/ <-- Actually it seems to be an effort to curb grey-market business rather than prevent people taking phones with them on holidays. |
| 03:57 | <@Alek> | this was in the LATE 90's/early 00s. |
| 03:57 | < Syka_> | i'm 19, so, I got all the stuff when it was not-shit |
| 03:57 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | That booster only works with telstra next g, Syka_ |
| 03:57 | <@Alek> | ;_; |
| 03:57 | < Syka_> | the nokia 3310 was the oldest mobile phone I had |
| 03:57 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: you mean you're not on telstra? |
| 03:57 | < Syka_> | owO |
| 03:58 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | haha |
| 03:58 | < Syka_> | why would one not be on telstra |
| 03:58 | < Syka_> | well, up here, it's the only choice |
| 03:58 | < Syka_> | the other carriers don't put anything up on the tower |
| 03:58 | <@Alek> | oh hey, I still have a wifi finder keychain dongle. XD which is quite useless now, and was back then actually. |
| 03:58 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Within metro areas non-telstra coverage is just as good as telstra. Also: Telstra are jerks in general, pining for the days when they were an actual monopoly rather than a virtual one they are now. |
| 03:58 | < Syka_> | so city people come up, having signed like a 48 month contract with Optus, with a shiny new iphone |
| 03:59 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | heh yeah. FIFO people have that problem. |
| 03:59 | <@Alek> | but more so now, when receivers are WAY more sensitive than that thing. |
| 03:59 | < Syka_> | then they have to cancel and pay it out because they only get signal in certain parts of town |
| 03:59 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: oh man |
| 03:59 | < Syka_> | i went to perth |
| 03:59 | < Syka_> | with my at the time htc desire |
| 03:59 | < Syka_> | did a speedtest |
| 03:59 | < Syka_> | got -0.00Mb/s download :'D |
| 03:59 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | pfff |
| 04:00 | < Syka_> | phone didnt actually work for three days, then it came good |
| 04:00 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | odd. |
| 04:00 | < Syka_> | ...then I bought a HTC Sensation off Telstra |
| 04:00 | < Syka_> | worst purchase I have ever made :( |
| 04:01 | < Syka_> | ooh, i found my pictures when i first bought it |
| 04:01 | < Syka_> | it was during CHOGM 2011 |
| 04:01 | | * Alek had a samsung flip-bar for 4 years. thing had maybe 1 or 2 problems, easily fixed by reboots, over the whole time. not even a battery problem. |
| 04:02 | < Syka_> | i loved how http://reddrgn.net/tidbits_old/files/pic/9.jpg was the example of mac gaming in the apple store |
| 04:02 | <@Alek> | in fact, the battery's STILL just as good as it was then. |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | Blargh. |
| 04:03 | <@Alek> | heeeey, lego star wars. I need to get around to playing my copy some day. |
| 04:03 | < Syka_> | also this piece of shit! http://reddrgn.net/tidbits_old/files/pic/17.jpg |
| 04:03 | <&McMartin> | jeroud: No dice on the SDL stuff. Even with the objc stuff it's a tremendous pain to get stuff to build right. |
| 04:03 | <@Alek> | ok, maybe not QUITE as good, it lasted for at least a week when I got it, but only about 6 days at the end there. XD |
| 04:03 | < Syka_> | i may have actually seen it completed, i don't remember |
| 04:03 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Gods. If i was female i would totally want to have Chainfire's babies. He(?) seems to have written an application to take away the region lock issue. |
| 04:03 | < Syka_> | but it still looks like some post-modernist bullshit |
| 04:04 | <&McMartin> | I'm going to need to recruit people post-SDL2 to make a usable .framework that doesn't have horrible absolute path dependencies Freaking Everywhere &c |
| 04:06 | <@Alek> | heh. not to be a 'muritard, but do you guys celebrate halloween in Oz and N-Zed? |
| 04:06 | < Syka_> | yes and no |
| 04:06 | < Syka_> | the same way we celebrate #yolo |
| 04:07 | < Syka_> | ie. it's the teenagers, everyone older than that is like "ugh american things" |
| 04:07 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Oddly enough nobody minds celebrating Octoberfest |
| 04:07 | < Syka_> | oktoberfest is different though |
| 04:07 | < Syka_> | ie. it has alcohol |
| 04:07 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Or anything else foreign. But we do halloween, because my wife is Canadian. |
| 04:08 | < Syka_> | Thalass|codemonkey: "alcohol" makes it suitable for "allowed cultural imports" |
| 04:08 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | haha true |
| 04:08 | < Syka_> | also, apparently the German Oktoberfest is mainly Bavarians and pissed-up Aussies |
| 04:08 | < Syka_> | so I guess we're just "exchanging culture" (getting smashed) |
| 04:09 | <&McMartin> | Exchanging yeast cultures. Applied to malt. And hops. |
| 04:09 | <&McMartin> | And grains. |
| 04:09 | < Syka_> | for "mutual trust and understanding" (yelling drinking anthems) |
| 04:09 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | I've heard that, too. |
| 04:09 | < Thalass|codemonkey> | Anyway. AFK. Spawnling needs food or something (who knew?) :P |
| 04:09 | | Thalass|codemonkey is now known as Thalass|afk |
| 04:10 | <&McMartin> | I will grant an America Fuck Yeah for using a drinking anthem as the tune for the national anthem |
| 04:11 | < Syka_> | McMartin: which country is this |
| 04:12 | <&McMartin> | The US. "The Star-Spangled Banner" is set to "To Anacreon in Heaven", a drinking song of the day. |
| 04:12 | < Syka_> | he |
| 04:12 | < Syka_> | h |
| 04:13 | <&McMartin> | That said, given how fucking hard it is to sing 18th-century drunks must have been fucking amazing |
| 04:13 | | * Syka_ <3 her deploy scripts |
| 04:13 | < Syka_> | seriously i am really happy with them |
| 04:14 | <@AnnoDomini> | McMartin: Seems likely given that hundred year-old reaction time test they repeated on modern people recently. |
| 04:21 | <@Alek> | people today are soft and lazy, yadda yadda |
| 04:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
| 04:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | A direct consequence of our standard of living. |
| 04:22 | | Thalass|afk is now known as Thalass |
| 04:22 | | * AnnoDomini sleep. |
| 04:23 | < Syka_> | a direct consequence of being awesome |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | Maybe we're better at beer now. |
| 04:23 | < Syka_> | we made machines do that quick stuff for us |
| 04:23 | <&McMartin> | Maybe I should learn CMake |
| 04:29 | <@Alek> | and don't forget how a ton of drinking songs had at least a hundred verses. |
| 04:30 | <&McMartin> | To be fair, after awhile you can claim that you sang all hundred verses flawlessly and nobody's sober enough to gainsay you. |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | o/~ Oh, me pa sent me to school / But I found it much too hard / When they asked me "Where does coal come from?" / I said "Me neighbors' yard" o/~ |
| 04:31 | <@Alek> | and most of the verses were each bawdier than the last. |
| 04:32 | <@Alek> | like the hedgehog or the wizard's staff from Discworld. |
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| 07:24 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, Windows monocle now works |
| 07:25 | <&McMartin> | (WHY IS IT EASIER TO PORT FROM LINUX TO WINDOWS THAN MAC) |
| 07:25 | < Syka_> | because it just werks |
| 07:25 | < Syka_> | qait |
| 07:25 | < Syka_> | wait* |
| 07:25 | <&McMartin> | also, why is mingw finding genuine bugs in the code that stock gcc is not |
| 07:25 | <@froztbyte> | kuwait? |
| 07:25 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: gcc isn't very great software |
| 07:26 | <@froztbyte> | it's okayish software |
| 07:26 | <&McMartin> | Yes, but mingw *is* gcc |
| 07:26 | <@froztbyte> | yes, but |
| 07:26 | <@froztbyte> | mingw have had to cover a couple more "oh, one more thing" cases |
| 07:26 | <&McMartin> | I suppose |
| 07:26 | <@froztbyte> | I remember having the same experience about 6 years ago |
| 07:26 | <&McMartin> | This was use-before-def though and I thought gcc caught all those as long as you set at least -O1 |
| 07:26 | <@froztbyte> | not even mildly complicated code |
| 07:27 | <@froztbyte> | bloodshed dev.net + mingw |
| 07:27 | <@froztbyte> | or whatnot |
| 07:27 | <&McMartin> | Ah yes, Bloodshed Software |
| 07:27 | <@froztbyte> | would pick up things my linux box (at the time gedit + gcc) would not |
| 07:27 | <@froztbyte> | (yes, I was /that green/ a mere 5~6 years ago) |
| 07:30 | <&McMartin> | dev-c++ was still live software 5-6 years ago, wasn't it? |
| 07:32 | <&McMartin> | I remember Sable used to have Dev-C++ project files maintained for it |
| 07:33 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, MSYS really does pretty much just work |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | The only real changes I had to make was to remove a few POSIX-specific compiler flags and rename the .so to .dll |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | ... and then install zip because MSYS doesn't by default |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | When MSYS says "minimal system" it isn't kidding |
| 08:19 | < Tarinaky_> | http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~crypto/java/ENTROPY/ << Can anyone else get the applet on this page to work? |
| 08:19 | < Tarinaky_> | Oh hang on, yay. |
| 08:19 | < Tarinaky_> | Working now. |
| 08:29 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-dfmuir.ph.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 08:29 | | Reiv [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-95746c1f.kinect.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:30 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 08:30 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 08:33 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: yeah, it was still alive then |
| 08:33 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: last while of its lifetime, aiui |
| 08:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:05 | | Thalass is now known as Pirate_chef |
| 09:10 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 09:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Huzzah for working windows monocle! |
| 09:13 | < AverageJoe> | <working>|<windows> |
| 09:13 | < AverageJoe> | choose one |
| 09:20 | <&McMartin> | Incorrect! |
| 09:20 | <&McMartin> | It turns out Mac is the one made of spiders and abandonment. |
| 09:21 | <&McMartin> | 00:30 <&McMartin> But yeah, MSYS really does pretty much just work |
| 09:21 | <&McMartin> | 00:30 <&McMartin> The only real changes I had to make was to remove a few POSIX-specific compiler flags and rename the .so to .dll |
| 09:21 | < Tarinaky_> | Yeah, every Friday and Monday our AI lecturer's Mac sabotages her lecture by doing weird things. |
| 09:22 | < Tarinaky_> | Nice Power Point you have there, pity if someone were to activate the Expose view. |
| 09:23 | <@froztbyte> | that pretty much sounds like operator incompetence |
| 09:23 | <@froztbyte> | but then that's most people with computers, so... |
| 09:23 | <&McMartin> | I dunno |
| 09:23 | < Tarinaky_> | Just because the problem exists between keyboard and chair doesn't mean there isn't a problem. |
| 09:24 | <&McMartin> | When they do things like put the system hibernate key between the volume control buttons, I blame the keyboard designer~ |
| 09:24 | <@froztbyte> | I can't speak for most |
| 09:24 | <@froztbyte> | but I've seen one HP laptop with that same kind of idiocy |
| 09:25 | <@froztbyte> | (on my Air, the power button is top-right, and volume just are the two keys left of it) |
| 09:25 | <&McMartin> | On my System76 laptop, the alternate function keys for F2, F3, F4, F5, and F6 are, in order: Shut Down, Mute, Hibernate, Volume Down, Volume Up |
| 09:26 | <&McMartin> | This displeases me |
| 09:27 | < Tarinaky_> | The F3's alternate is to turn the wireless hardware on/off on my laptop... |
| 09:27 | < Tarinaky_> | The Fn key is next to the 'Windows'/Meta key... |
| 09:27 | < Tarinaky_> | And F3 is very close to 3. |
| 09:27 | < Tarinaky_> | The number of times I've disconnected from the internet instead of switching desktops is large. |
| 09:28 | <@froztbyte> | esc, brightness down, brightness up, expose(-I'm-on-windows-fuck-I-can't-compose-argh), launchpad (think menu), keyboard brightness down, keyboard brightness up, media prev, media play/pause, media next, mute, voldown, volup, power |
| 09:28 | <@froztbyte> | on mine |
| 09:28 | <@froztbyte> | and I need to press fn if I want F-key functionality |
| 09:28 | <@froztbyte> | this actually works pretty okay for most of my time |
| 09:28 | <@froztbyte> | (it's actually only in games that I've needed F-keys) |
| 09:29 | <@froztbyte> | I'm not gonna drag the lenovo out now, but that's just made of dumb |
| 09:39 | | * McMartin attempts to install the SDL2 dev libraries. |
| 09:39 | | * McMartin guesses libsdl2-dev, is wrong |
| 09:39 | <&McMartin> | mcmartin@osmium:~/devel/monocle/bin$ sudo apt-cache search sdl2 |
| 09:39 | <&McMartin> | python-zsi - Zolera Soap Infrastructure |
| 09:39 | <@froztbyte> | hahaha |
| 09:39 | <@froztbyte> | that's probably the description |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | sudo apt-cache search libsdl gives a shitload of stuff, all of it 1.2 |
| 09:40 | <@froztbyte> | (in it, I mean) |
| 09:40 | <@froztbyte> | k, one moment |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | I swear I saw these in the repo just last week |
| 09:40 | <@froztbyte> | what is this, wheezy? |
| 09:40 | < Tarinaky_> | I think, for SDL2, you probably need to build it yourself. |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | Precise. |
| 09:40 | <@froztbyte> | oh god |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | I refuse |
| 09:40 | <@froztbyte> | you're on your own |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: It often overlaps! |
| 09:40 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: if it was debian, I would've gone out of my way to help you |
| 09:41 | <&McMartin> | Ah, I see =P |
| 09:41 | <@froztbyte> | but since it's hookers&blow country, nein danke |
| 09:41 | <@froztbyte> | people have a really bad view of debian for really bad reasons, and I like to fix that |
| 09:41 | | youaredead[]]a`] [youaredead@Nightstar-s1a.j1p.169.202.IP] has joined #code |
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| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]_[^]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]_[^]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]_[^]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]_[^]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[][^a]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[][^a]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[][^a]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]_[^]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[][^a]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[][^a]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[][^a]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | | youaredead[][^a] was kicked from #code by froztbyte [Kindergarten is elsewhere!] |
| 09:41 | | mode/#code [+b *!*ouaredead@*.pq4.202.124.IP] by McMartin |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | < youaredead[]]a`]> | FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF |
| 09:41 | | youaredead[]]a`] was kicked from #code by froztbyte [Kindergarten is elsewhere!] |
| 09:41 | < Tarinaky_> | About that time again eh chaps? |
| 09:41 | <@froztbyte> | stupidly, I can't kickban in quassel |
| 09:42 | | youaredead[]_[^] [youaredead@Nightstar-6q0.pq4.202.124.IP] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 09:42 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: Note that when I fail in Ubuntu, I blame Debian for it |
| 09:42 | <@froztbyte> | question though |
| 09:42 | <@froztbyte> | can't we just textban that shit? |
| 09:42 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: heh |
| 09:42 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: seriously though, I recently ... persuaded Syka to check out debian |
| 09:42 | <@froztbyte> | and after helping undo the initial bits of ubuntu braindamage |
| 09:43 | <@froztbyte> | she's loving it |
| 09:44 | <&McMartin> | That's great if you don't have to interact with the rest of the universe |
| 09:44 | <&McMartin> | I have to run what deploy targets run |
| 09:44 | <&McMartin> | (Happily that means *not* Ubuntu 13.x =P) |
| 09:44 | <@froztbyte> | eh |
| 09:45 | <@froztbyte> | at $work we have a whole fleet of ububububuntu |
| 09:45 | <~Vornicus> | froztbyte: while there is a mode for it, it also prevents bold, italic, and underline. |
| 09:45 | <@froztbyte> | "you know a thing well enough when you can say why it sucks" |
| 09:45 | <@froztbyte> | Vornicus: heh. |
| 09:45 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: So, uh, am I at least entering reasonable commands here |
| 09:46 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: yes |
| 09:46 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: I'm going to glance at packages.ubuntu.com now |
| 09:46 | <~Vornicus> | gneh, I was redirected to magrathea instead of where my admin line is |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | Maybe I did this test in a livecd or something before. |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=sdl2 |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | saucy seems to have it all |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | so |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | what you could do |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | add saucy to your repo list |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | pin it /way/ the hell down |
| 09:47 | <@froztbyte> | (do you know how to pin?) |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | (No) |
| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | This sounds like more work than building from source already |
| 09:48 | <@froztbyte> | (do you wish to acquire this knowledge?) |
| 09:48 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: it's actually not |
| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | (Not at 0248 while sick) |
| 09:48 | <@froztbyte> | it's one line in /etc/apt/sources.list or a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ |
| 09:48 | <@froztbyte> | and a line in /etc/apt/preferences |
| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | err, 3 lines, sorry |
| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences#A.2Fetc.2Fapt.2Fpreferences |
| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | so you'd want to pin at priority -1 |
| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | and release 'saucy' |
| 09:59 | | Panzer [Panzer@Nightstar-o7b.u5m.89.109.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 10:34 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-dfmuir.ph.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:36 | <@simon`> | dealing with unary minus in lexical analysis: isn't it best to produce a token, MINUS, and let the parser solve the ambiguity? |
| 10:37 | <@simon`> | I don't see a reasonable way of solving the ambiguity this early. |
| 10:39 | <~Vornicus> | simon`: in regular infix math, your tokens go thing operator thing operator thing operator thing. |
| 10:40 | <~Vornicus> | So you can alternate between modes. |
| 10:40 | <&McMartin> | Argh, other dependencies |
| 10:40 | | * McMartin finishes building from source before getting a chimera system working right. |
| 10:40 | <&McMartin> | (To be fair, this was with one exception a matter of configure make make install, and I think that exception is what was burning me) |
| 10:41 | <&McMartin> | Hrm, possibly not. I guess we'll see after this song finishes |
| 10:42 | <~Vornicus> | with, say, javascript syntax: in the mode where you expect an operator, ( is function call, [ is array index, { is "the previous statement has ended and now I'm in a block" |
| 10:42 | <&McMartin> | (It's defaulting to modplog instead of mikmod, and SDL2_mixer's modplug support doesn't properly handle MODs that have intros.) |
| 10:42 | <~Vornicus> | Similarly, - is binary minus in that mode. |
| 10:43 | <&McMartin> | Mikmod is being... inconsistent |
| 10:43 | <~Vornicus> | In the mode where you expect a thing, - is unary minus, ( is the start of a grouping, [ is the start of an array literal, and { is the start of an object literal. |
| 10:43 | <@simon`> | Vornicus, so if I've just lexed a number, any subsequent - must be infix (e.g. "2 - 3"), and any immediately subsequent - after that must be unary (e.g. "2 - -3"), and three "-"es after each other is, it seems, an error. |
| 10:43 | <@simon`> | Vornicus, thanks :) |
| 10:50 | <~Vornicus> | Similarly: prefix and postfix operators can be lexed as different objects this way; parentheses around conditionals reduce your language, uh, level? |
| 10:51 | <~Vornicus> | even if you go "blocks are required for conditional statements" |
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| 11:38 | < JustBob> | Fuck me sideways. |
| 11:38 | < JustBob> | I hate Excel sometimes. |
| 11:38 | < JustBob> | Vorn. How do I do isoconcentrations in Excel? |
| 11:39 | <~Vornicus> | what the fuck is an isoconcentration |
| 11:39 | < JustBob> | Like, I want to plot X as time, Y as depth, and on that graph, plot percentage removal at a given X,Y intersection. |
| 11:39 | < JustBob> | Then use that percentage data to plot percentage removal lines. |
| 11:39 | < JustBob> | One second, lemme find the example. |
| 11:40 | < JustBob> | http://i.imgur.com/cugVQUz.png |
| 11:40 | <~Vornicus> | you want to plot those lines. |
| 11:40 | < JustBob> | I want to display the circled values, and then plot those lines. |
| 11:41 | < JustBob> | They're X% lines. |
| 11:41 | < JustBob> | Because I can't even get it to plot the damned things |
| 11:41 | <@froztbyte> | (why is bob plotting with excel?) |
| 11:41 | < JustBob> | Because it tells me to. |
| 11:41 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 11:41 | < JustBob> | I could do this in 30 minutes in MatLab |
| 11:41 | < JustBob> | Not 3 hours of hatefucking my eyes in Excel. |
| 11:41 | <~Vornicus> | Surface chart, top down view. |
| 11:42 | <@froztbyte> | JustBob: "it" = your lecturer/prof/whatever? ;P |
| 11:42 | < JustBob> | Yup |
| 11:43 | < JustBob> | Vorn - I facefault. Because now that I've been told to use surface instead of scatter... |
| 11:43 | < JustBob> | I can probably figure this out. |
| 11:45 | <~Vornicus> | You can format the dependent axis to give you iso lines at fixed intervals. |
| 11:45 | <@froztbyte> | huh, http://prosody.im/ seems like it might be interesting |
| 11:45 | <@froztbyte> | wholly different language for the server |
| 11:46 | < JustBob> | Ah, okay |
| 11:47 | <~Vornicus> | Labelling data points might be a little harder. |
| 11:49 | | * Tarinaky_ glares at Chrome for being really weird all of a sudden :/ |
| 11:49 | < JustBob> | How do I forment the dependent axis? |
| 11:57 | < JustBob> | Because I could do this by hand. |
| 11:57 | < JustBob> | So easily. |
| 12:00 | <~Vornicus> | Justbob: get it selected, and choose "format axis' |
| 12:01 | < JustBob> | okay |
| 12:01 | < JustBob> | and? |
| 12:03 | <~Vornicus> | your, um, -- shit, don't remember the exact names. One of the values in there is a grid spacing. |
| 12:04 | <~Vornicus> | Set it to 5 and it will give you isolines (not smoothed, unfortunately) every 5. |
| 12:04 | < JustBob> | okay |
| 12:05 | < JustBob> | Doesn't do anything |
| 12:05 | <~Vornicus> | Uh... hm |
| 12:06 | < JustBob> | Do you want me to just send you the file? |
| 12:06 | < JustBob> | I literally have no idea wtf to do with manipulating this data |
| 12:07 | <~Vornicus> | ...sure |
| 12:07 | < JustBob> | What I'd prefer is to have some sort of 3d XYZ plot where I can spec time as X, depth as Y, and just /display/ the Z values. |
| 12:07 | < JustBob> | I can draw the damned isolines by hand if I have to. |
| 12:08 | < JustBob> | people.oregonstate.edu/~loa/Class/hw3.xlsx |
| 12:10 | <~Vornicus> | gnah, silly thing, let me select the right axis. |
| 12:11 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, click approximately around the lower left corner; you want to get the vertical (value) axis. |
| 12:12 | <~Vornicus> | format /that/, change Major Unit to 5. |
| 12:14 | < JustBob> | Okay |
| 12:14 | < JustBob> | THat makes a lot more sense. |
| 12:15 | <~Vornicus> | obviously this isn't very pretty. |
| 12:15 | <~Vornicus> | It only does linear interpolation along orthogonal lines in the data. |
| 12:17 | < JustBob> | eh |
| 12:17 | < JustBob> | good enough |
| 12:17 | < JustBob> | just wish it had data labels, too, but w/e |
| 12:17 | < JustBob> | I'm tossing the points on this one |
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| 13:08 | | * Syka_ has a very intense sad at this client PC |
| 13:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Is it like an entire depressed clown car of sad? |
| 13:09 | < Syka_> | it's old enough to have an IDE drive, is 90% dust, and has a pentium D |
| 13:09 | < Syka_> | TheWatcher: that is a very apt description for this variety of sad |
| 13:09 | < Syka_> | so yeah, I am just not going to touch it |
| 13:09 | < Syka_> | and call up the client tomorrow and go "yeah, no" |
| 13:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Better idea: charge them $5000 to set it up as a /dev/null as a Service node! |
| 13:10 | < Syka_> | I /really/ don't like telling people "you need to buy a new PC, as this one is way past its use by date" |
| 13:10 | < Syka_> | TheWatcher: ehhh, it's an individual |
| 13:10 | < Syka_> | and a family friend, too |
| 13:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Bah, fine |
| 13:10 | <@TheWatcher> | $4500 |
| 13:10 | < Syka_> | rofl |
| 13:10 | < Syka_> | sounds like my main competitor in town |
| 13:11 | < Syka_> | once he sold someone a "new" PC for $3K |
| 13:11 | < Syka_> | it had someone elses photos already on it :'D |
| 13:11 | <@TheWatcher> | .... eech. That's just scum. |
| 13:12 | < Syka_> | yeppp |
| 13:12 | < Syka_> | my OTHER competitor tried to sell a $12,000 fuji-xerox printer to a non-profit with two office staff |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Classy. |
| 13:15 | < Syka_> | oh and it was billed per page on top of that |
| 13:15 | < Syka_> | I got them a $700 brother which did the exact same and had an only very marginally more expensive per page cost |
| 13:15 | < Syka_> | well, "exact same" as in, everything but A3 |
| 13:16 | < Syka_> | but they didn't want A3, so, practically the same for their purposes |
| 13:27 | < Tarinaky_> | You must make a killing. |
| 13:27 | < Tarinaky_> | With competitors like that. |
| 13:28 | < Syka_> | Tarinaky_: it depends! |
| 13:28 | < Syka_> | Tarinaky_: I have a combination of Knowing What I'm Doing, and then I have complete social ineptitude and crushing laziness |
| 13:28 | < Syka_> | in the past... almost-year, I've issued some 73 invoices |
| 13:28 | < Syka_> | with a post-tax value of $35K |
| 13:29 | < Tarinaky_> | Dare I ask how many of said invoices get paid? :p |
| 13:29 | < Syka_> | naturally, a lot of that is hardware costs, so the profit is much lower |
| 13:29 | < Syka_> | Tarinaky_: all of them! |
| 13:29 | < Tarinaky_> | That's okay then. |
| 13:29 | < Syka_> | Tarinaky_: well, except two that are currently within the 30 day limit |
| 13:30 | < Syka_> | but yeah |
| 13:30 | < Syka_> | this next contract is going to be great |
| 13:31 | < Syka_> | proper consulting work @v@ |
| 13:31 | < Syka_> | (aka: lots of billable hours) |
| 13:31 | < Syka_> | and I even beat out a multi-million dollar multi-state consulting corp on it! |
| 13:31 | < Syka_> | which i'm still giggling about |
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| 13:46 | < Tarinaky_> | Well, if you're looking to hire~ :p |
| 14:10 | | Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 14:15 | < Xires> | general query: as a professional programmer with over, say, 5 years of experience in a particular language; should you no longer have need for a language reference? |
| 14:16 | < Tarinaky_> | 'No'. Reference manuals are bloody useful. |
| 14:16 | <@gnolam> | You'll always have a need for a language reference. |
| 14:17 | < Tarinaky_> | It's literally impossible for one person to remember even the standard libraries, in their entirety, for anything other than a toy language. |
| 14:18 | < Xires> | that was my thought |
| 14:19 | < Xires> | I went in for a 'test' for Check Point Software Technologies and was denied access to a language reference for the test |
| 14:19 | < Xires> | just couldn't remember the fscking syntax for what I was trying to do |
| 14:19 | < JustBob> | That's what we in the business call bloody fucking stupid. |
| 14:19 | < JustBob> | But I admit that I'm not a coder; I'm an engineer. |
| 14:19 | < Xires> | out of 4 tests, the firewall && antivirus tests were done in under 15 minutes each |
| 14:19 | < JustBob> | If I had to memorize all 6524324 equations I use on a regular basis... I would probably say "fuck this" and go study business. |
| 14:20 | < Xires> | but I 'failed' the other two because it took too long |
| 14:20 | < Xires> | with a language reference, all 4 would've been done in under an hour |
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| 14:20 | < Tarinaky_> | Usually they tell you that if you don't remember a particular function to use pseudocode or otherwise indicate your thinking. |
| 14:20 | < Tarinaky_> | I like to believe they mean it. |
| 14:22 | < Xires> | nope, the goal was to finish |
| 14:23 | < Xires> | I did write down the algorithm in mind |
| 14:23 | < Tarinaky_> | Well, not all employers are equal. |
| 14:23 | < Xires> | logically, it seemed pretty perfect |
| 14:23 | < Xires> | indeed |
| 14:23 | < Xires> | I spent over an hour on the DLP test itself |
| 14:23 | < Xires> | everything worked but 1 message in over 3,000 failed because it was dropped when it should've been accepted |
| 14:23 | < Xires> | for no reason |
| 14:25 | <@simon`> | does anyone have a good example of something that is difficult to lexify without a lexer generator? |
| 14:25 | <@simon`> | I've got one example, which is scientific-notation floating point numbers. |
| 14:26 | <@simon`> | 0.5E-10 could be interpreted as "0.5" followed by the variable "E", followed by the integer "-10". |
| 14:26 | < Xires> | summations? |
| 14:27 | <@simon`> | Xires, as in? |
| 14:27 | < JustBob> | Any pictoral/ideographic language? |
| 14:27 | <@simon`> | JustBob, that sounds a bit esoteric. what do you mean? |
| 14:28 | < JustBob> | Try coding in mandarin. |
| 14:28 | < JustBob> | Quietly cry. |
| 14:28 | <@simon`> | I suppose I'm mainly looking for classical language constructs that are hard to lex. |
| 14:29 | <@simon`> | Xires, do you mean something like \sum_i^n ...? |
| 14:30 | < JustBob> | I suspect that an alternative would be multi-line equations? |
| 14:30 | < Tarinaky_> | I don't think there are any classical language constructs that're hard to lex for fairly obvious reasons. |
| 14:30 | <@froztbyte> | <Tarinaky_> It's literally impossible for one person to remember even the standard libraries, in their entirety, for anything other than a toy language. |
| 14:30 | <@froztbyte> | bzzzt |
| 14:31 | <@froztbyte> | it's just not generally likely. |
| 14:31 | < Tarinaky_> | froztbyte: In their /entirety/? |
| 14:31 | < JustBob> | in the sense of, say, integral(6*(e^(2))*d+3*pi*(d^2)*sqrt(2)+(2^(1/2)),d) |
| 14:31 | < Tarinaky_> | I mean... they get updated every 5->10 years depending on the language. |
| 14:31 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky_: yes |
| 14:31 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky_: eidetic memory is a thing |
| 14:32 | < Tarinaky_> | Touche. |
| 14:32 | < Tarinaky_> | I don't think this detracts from the meaning and wisdom of the sentence though. |
| 14:32 | < Tarinaky_> | Just the pedantic literalism :p |
| 14:33 | <@simon`> | Tarinaky_, "hard" is perhaps too subjective. the two things I've found so far is: the distinction between unary and binary minus, and scientific-notation floating-point numbers. |
| 14:33 | <@froztbyte> | hahaha |
| 14:33 | < JustBob> | Especially if you use a nonstandard spacing setup. |
| 14:33 | <@froztbyte> | well, part of the reason I can pick things up so quickly is because I have a very good memory |
| 14:33 | < JustBob> | Unless you do a character by character read, you might screw an input like that up. But fuckall if I know for certain; I'm an engineer who's forced to code. :p |
| 14:34 | < Tarinaky_> | simon`: My point is that if something is hard an engineer is likely to engineer /around/ it and turn it into a simpler problem. |
| 14:34 | <@simon`> | Tarinaky_, right. I'm tempted to solve unary/binary minuses in the parser instead. |
| 14:34 | < Tarinaky_> | Have you had the rest of the channel force you to read The Dragon Book yet? |
| 14:35 | < JustBob> | Nope. |
| 14:35 | <@simon`> | Tarinaky_, I suppose what I'm interested in is: a regular language that is better described as a state-machine rather than a program. |
| 14:35 | < JustBob> | I suspect I'm going to have to bite the bullet and read it when I pick up my BS in CS, though. |
| 14:36 | < Tarinaky_> | simon`: Finite State Automata aren't Turing Complete. |
| 14:36 | <@simon`> | Tarinaky_, neither do you usually expect lexers to be. |
| 14:36 | < Tarinaky_> | And lexing is only half the battle... |
| 14:36 | <@simon`> | Tarinaky_, i.e. something with a bunch of nondeterminism in it, but which eventually unwinds. |
| 14:38 | < Tarinaky_> | Err... determinism? |
| 14:39 | < Tarinaky_> | Are you... sure you're choosing the right word there... |
| 14:39 | < JustBob> | Speaking of which. Should I do the entire degree in a year, or spread it out over a couple years? |
| 14:39 | < Tarinaky_> | P. sure a non-deterministic state machine is a Markov-Chain. |
| 14:39 | <@simon`> | ah, I understand why you would mention Turing-completeness, since I mentioned programs. what I meant was that a regular language, described by a classical NFA graph generated by a regex, vs. a manually-written program, the former tends to win (or rather: manually writing lexers vs. using a lexer generator, the latter tends to win). |
| 14:40 | <@simon`> | I didn't know they were. :) |
| 14:41 | < Tarinaky_> | I... think you're confusing me. |
| 14:41 | | * Tarinaky_ double checks something... so long since he's cared about state machines. |
| 14:42 | < Tarinaky_> | By non-deterministic you just meant read-ahead didn't you? |
| 14:42 | <@simon`> | basically: I'm looking for good examples for people to wish to use lexer generators rather than writing their own functions, because those functions, representing the state-machines that lexer-generators automatically generate, tend to get kind of complicated. |
| 14:42 | <@simon`> | yeah. |
| 14:42 | < Tarinaky_> | Okay, ignore my comment about Markov-Chains. |
| 14:54 | < Xon2> | simon`, a lot of compilers/lexers these days end up being hand written rather than using a lexer generator |
| 14:54 | | Xon2 is now known as XOn |
| 14:54 | | XOn is now known as Xon |
| 14:55 | < Xon> | because the grammer to generate the lexer is generally horrible to debug & maintain with RL programming languages which have decades of cruff accumulated in thier design |
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| 14:58 | <@simon`> | Xon, right. |
| 14:58 | < Xon> | for example, Clang & GCC have a hand written parser |
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| 15:08 | < Xon> | http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2010/09/24/building-a-simple-recursive -descent-parser-completed-simple-parser.aspx |
| 15:08 | < Xon> | lol, Linq-based Recursive Descent Parser for Excel spreadsheet formulas |
| 15:26 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @Syloq, Xon, Typherix, @Orthia, Attilla, PinkFreu1, Stalker, @Alek, Tarinaky_, @froztbyte, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 15:27 | | Netsplit over, joins: RichyB, PinkFreu1, &jerith, jeroud, @Orthia, @froztbyte, Stalker, Turaiel[Offline], Tarinaky_, Typherix (+4 more) |
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| 16:12 | <@Alek> | wow, the flood guy's a regular now. |
| 16:44 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 16:51 | <@iospace> | oh? |
| 16:57 | < Tarinaky_> | Every nick he's joined with so far has contained three characters from the set {'[',']'} and one instance of the letter a. |
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| 17:09 | | * Derakon2 eyes his microscope control code. |
| 17:09 | < Derakon2> | Why are you setting the exposure time to 1ms in the experiment runtime but not in my handmade function that exactly duplicates the experiment runtime effects. |
| 17:09 | < Derakon2> | Rasser frassin' cheeky software... |
| 17:49 | < Derakon2> | Ahh, the problem was that I was using a decimal.Decimal() object when talking to a specific library, and it was silently accepting it and misinterpreting the result. |
| 17:50 | < Derakon2> | \o/ it works now |
| 18:04 | < Derakon2> | I note that the only way I was able to figure this out is by monkey-patching the setProperty() function of said library. |
| 18:04 | < Derakon2> | Hooray for monkey-patching~ |
| 19:12 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 19:39 | <@iospace> | anti-static smock + sweatshirt = hot iospace |
| 19:48 | <@Azash> | hot iospace lab action in your area |
| 19:48 | <@Azash> | Derakon2: Monkey-patching? |
| 19:48 | <@iospace> | Azash: more or less, though there was still ice on the Liquid N2 lines |
| 19:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: modifying the contents of other code at runtime, more or less - e.g. after initialization, replacing some of the methods in a library cass |
| 20:00 | < Derakon2> | In this case, I replaced a class instance's function with a different function that a) printed the arguments, and b) called the original function. |
| 20:09 | <@Azash> | Ah |
| 20:18 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 20:24 | <&jerith> | https://twitter.com/fijall/status/396309859106160640 |
| 20:24 | < Derakon2> | Fantastic. |
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| 20:48 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 20:49 | <@Azash> | Maciej Fijalkowski â@fijall 4h |
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| 20:50 | <@Azash> | " Failed tests usually indicate a problem with your local system setup and not within PHP itself" I like the attitude |
| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | hey a wild fijal quote |
| 20:50 | <@Tamber> | Of course it's a problem with your local system setup. Your system has PHP on it! |
| 20:50 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:53 | <@Azash> | Tamber: WP |
| 20:54 | <@Tamber> | :p |
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| 22:40 | <&McMartin> | Hey, Git question. Is there an equivalent to Subversion's date tags? |
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| 22:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: what's a date tag? |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | In Subversion, it causes the file when released to automatically contain a timestamp of its last edit at that point |
| 22:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | "released"? |
| 22:45 | <&McMartin> | That thing you do to software occasionally |
| 22:45 | < ErikMesoy> | When you let newbies use it. |
| 22:45 | <&McMartin> | http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.advanced.props.special.keywords.html |
| 22:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | That looks more like "every time you commit" |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | I'm trying to avoid mathematician's answers here so I'm deliberately avoiding all words that Subversion and Git both define |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | Because they are never the same thing |
| 22:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 22:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, so, built in, there's no support for this, and I've honestly never missed it and am annoyed when I find those tags in source files |
| 22:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | There are a bunch of ways you can implement it yourself (or install a canned version from someone else who has implemented) |
| 22:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you want it to happen on commit (which is what SVN appears to do), you probably want a smudge/clean filter or a pre-commit filter; git-scm.com/book/ has a worked example of the former in chapter 7.2 |
| 22:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you want it to happen on export (i.e. when you call git-archive to generate a tarball for someone), you want the export-subst attribute |
| 22:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which does actually have some support for SVN date tags |
| 22:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | cf http://git-scm.com/book/ch7-2.html#Exporting-Your-Repository |
| 22:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | Finally, if you want it for some kind of automated tool, it may be easier for it to just get the data out of git directly. |
| 22:55 | <&McMartin> | We want it for content pack metadata, IIRC. |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | Also, SDL_mixer is worse than I remember |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | On the plus side, this means that it can actually play all the WaDF bonus songs |
| 23:13 | | Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 23:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: how are the content packs generated? |
| 23:20 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 23:21 | <@TheWatcher> | McM: my suggestion, use annotated tags on releases, and then VERS=`git tag -n1 | sort -V | tail -n1 | perl -e '$tag = <STDIN>; $tag =~ s/^.*?\s\s+(.*)$/$1/; print $tag;'` |
| 23:21 | <@TheWatcher> | $VERS will contain the last tag annotation |
| 23:24 | | * TheWatcher uses that to include the release info in doxygen generated docs, eg: https://github.com/TheWatcher/webperl/blob/master/makedocs.sh |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | IIRC, the cvs->svn->git conversion used unannotated tags |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | TF: With a shell script that should really be python ;-) |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, we can just do the work there, I suppose |
| 23:34 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 23:41 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 23:42 | <&McMartin> | Nice, the SDL2 API is clearly optimized for abstracting over "draw in a pixel buffer" vs. "render to texture, then scale that to fit the screen, pillarboxing as necessary" |
| 23:42 | <&McMartin> | aka The Only Way To Do That Right |
| --- Log closed Sat Nov 02 00:00:32 2013 |