code logs -> 2013 -> Fri, 01 Nov 2013< code.20131031.log - code.20131102.log >
--- Log opened Fri Nov 01 00:00:17 2013
00:02
<&McMartin>
Once you assume that votecounting electronically is trivial, I think you could do a "OK, the official votecounters will now check their work"
00:02
<&McMartin>
kind of thing
00:02
<&McMartin>
But you need a centralized trusted arbitrator at the end because ultimately there is one: the entity that's supposed to be respecting the result.
00:03
<&McMartin>
Whatever communicates that to the entity is the final arbiter. The "best" you can hope for is that it shows its work in ways private citizens can check
00:03
<&McMartin>
We may, barely, have just enough power now that this is a reasonable thing to do, but you still have social engineering attack points like restricting the franchise or attempting to render ballots invalid after casting.
00:03
<&McMartin>
Making it electronic merely changes which skills you use to do that.
00:03
<&McMartin>
Er, will now *show* their work, not check their work
00:06
<&McMartin>
Mmm
00:06
<&McMartin>
OK, the publishing with unique ID gets tricky because you can get companies blackmailing their workers
00:06
<&McMartin>
"Prove to us that you voted for the candidate the bosses want or we fire you"
00:06
<@Reiv>
NZ does paper votes, but the system could in theory be done electronically
00:07
<@Reiv>
Each vote paper has a unique ID that is stickered-over
00:07
<&McMartin>
CA switched to an electronic-prints-paper system largely for accessibility reasons
00:07
<@Reiv>
You then use said paper to cast your vote.
00:07
<@Reiv>
To recieve said paper, you have to be recorded as having voted at that voting station.
00:07
<@Reiv>
The numbers are sequential.
00:08
<&McMartin>
That sounds like a good system
00:08
<@Reiv>
So you know precisely how many votes *should* be there, because you can count how many papers were handed out
00:08
<@Reiv>
(Damaged papers can be returned and replaced, but IIRC there is a Process there too)
00:08
<@Reiv>
So they know you voted, and where
00:08 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
00:08
<@Reiv>
And they know how many votes there should be in the box
00:09
<@Reiv>
And they can line up the number of votes to the number of people, and (if needed) that each person only voted in one location
00:09
<@Reiv>
But they don't actually know which paper they gave you to vote with.
00:10
<&McMartin>
Right
00:11
<@Reiv>
So that solves voter privacy, single person multiple voting, and ballot destruction to a reasonable degree of compromise, I feel
00:11
<&McMartin>
The part where an "internet voting" scheme tends to fall down is that it's really, really hard to beat that voter register at the voting stating.
00:11
<@Reiv>
I mean, unless the vote came back 100% for one candidate, or 0 votes for someone you were meant to vote for
00:12
<@Reiv>
But you know that's kind of an edge case and we generally depend on Statistics to solve that one.
00:12
<&McMartin>
Right
00:12 VirusJTG_ [VirusJTG@Nightstar-lsl.j5i.46.174.IP] has joined #code
00:12
<&McMartin>
One place where that gets messy is if the ballot is gigantic
00:12
<&McMartin>
As, say, CA's often is
00:12 * AnnoDomini imagines Russian hackerinos writing viruses that infect USian machines and wait for the election.
00:12
<@Reiv>
Yeah, in NZ there are mid-weight restrictions on who goes on the ballot
00:12
<&McMartin>
AnnoDomini: Why imagine that when the US's leading manufacturer of voting machines openly stated they were pulling for a specific party to sweep wins
00:12
<@Reiv>
It costs Actual Money, and you don't get any campaign funding unless you pass a national threshold of votes
00:13
<&McMartin>
Reiv: Yeah, that's not what I mean
00:13
<&McMartin>
I mean "When I vote in an election I'm simultaneously voting something like 20 positions, plus about a dozen direct referenda"
00:13
<@AnnoDomini>
McMartin: Russians will do it more cheaply!
00:13
<@Reiv>
McMartin: My main point is that these restrictions mean that the ballot tends to sit at about twenty-odd parties
00:13
<@Reiv>
Oh, I see
00:14
<@Reiv>
Yeah, we get two Political votes, and then a couple referenda, maybe.
00:14
<&McMartin>
(Elections tend to merge federal, state, and municipal level so that you only need to get people out once a year)
00:14
<@TheWatcher>
Ballots here still mess with Myst's head
00:14
<@Reiv>
(To get on teh vote they have to get enough petition signatures to begin with, and the threshold is not terribly light)
00:14
<&McMartin>
... speaking of, there's an election next week, albeit a purely-municipal one. I should probably start doing my research for that.
00:14 VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
00:14
<@TheWatcher>
We vote on one or two political positions, that's it
00:15
<@Reiv>
Regional elections are by mail ballot.
00:15
<@Reiv>
This is obviously forgeable, but oh well etc
00:15
<@TheWatcher>
Referenda? Insanely huge thing for that to ever happen
00:15
<@Reiv>
TheWatcher: Haha yes, we vote on two; my Resident Californian still finds that weird
00:15
<&McMartin>
Several US states are vote-by-mail for *everything*
00:15
<@Reiv>
Yeah, referenda here are "There might be two on a paper for a given year, and that's kind of disconcerting"
00:16
<&McMartin>
(And most states will let you register to vote by mail regardless)
00:16
<@Reiv>
... uh guys this isn't FLEET~
00:17
<&McMartin>
This is about evoting!
00:17
<&McMartin>
It's totally code
00:17
<&McMartin>
And algorithms
00:17
<@AnnoDomini>
And hax.
00:17
<&McMartin>
Speaking of e-voting, it turns out that my favored voting schema ends up being a slight variant on RateMyKitten.com -_-
00:18
<@TheWatcher>
Reiv: we've had 11 referenda since 1973~
00:18
<&McMartin>
(Essentially, rate all candidates from 1-10. Note: *rate*, not *rank*. Whatever ratings you give get stretched out to cover the full range before being scored.)
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00:21
<@Reiv>
McMartin: Is there a point to anything but '10' and '1', then?
00:22
<&McMartin>
Reiv: That depends~
00:22
<&McMartin>
I think non-strategic voting is a form of throwing away your vote, so my inclination is both to say "no" and also "this is why I usually militate for approval voting"
00:22
<&McMartin>
But it seems like people get cranky when they can't have a second-place choice.
00:23
<&McMartin>
And, of course, for *non* elections like, oh, judging the IFcomp, or a competition full of kitten photos, a finer degree of judgement is useful.
00:24
<&McMartin>
(I'm in the US, and the approval voting algorithm happens to also mesh very well with the collection of historical accidents that is our election system, so this is another reason I favor it specifically)
00:25
<&McMartin>
(But the scaled-kitten-rating system -- I think the formal name is "normalized grading" -- is my preferred algorithm for basically *all* forms of mass selection.)
00:25
<@Reiv>
hn
00:25
<@Reiv>
I guess it has a point
00:26
<@Reiv>
It's hard, though.
00:26
<&McMartin>
Everything's Easier Than Condorcet~
00:26
<@Reiv>
But then, STV is /awful/ and a plague apon the nations that use it, so best to avoid that too.
00:26
<&McMartin>
STV?
00:26
<@Reiv>
(Single Transferrable Vote; the australians use it. It's the ranked voting. Augh, augh, augh.)
00:27
<&McMartin>
(Oh. I know that system as "instant runoff")
00:27
<@Reiv>
("There are a dozen parties on the list so you have to choose them all, ranked 1 to 12.")
00:27
<&McMartin>
And yeah, runoff-based systems tend to break horribly in the presence of three strong and nearly equally powerful parties and an even slightly cynical electorate
00:27
<&McMartin>
It's fine if you have two major parties and a bunch of minor ones
00:28
<&McMartin>
(Since people will tend to vote even the Kitten Skullfucker Party over the Sole Credible Rival in them)
00:29
<&McMartin>
STV breaks the everloving *shit* out of the US electoral college, so I have no worries about that ever coming to pass here~
00:29
<@Reiv>
Yeah
00:29
<@Reiv>
They want to change our system ;_;
00:29
<@Reiv>
It is a silly idea.
00:30
<&McMartin>
OTOH, the US electoral college is also the convenient demonstration of the various paradoxes that occur with runoff systems.
00:30
<@Reiv>
Of course, this is simple voter manipulation
00:30
<&McMartin>
There's a punchy name for tha ttoo and I forget what it is.
00:30
<@Reiv>
We've had demands ever since we went to MMP to change it, because people are Rose Tinted Memories for FTP
00:31
<@Reiv>
So the government held a referendum to change the voting system! It said yes!
00:31
<&McMartin>
But it didn't say what to?
00:31
<@Reiv>
... So now we're changing how we tick the boxes. Not the MMP. :P
00:31
<&McMartin>
I'm guessing FTP is first past the post, but MMP is actually an acronym I can't guess at. Proportional?
00:32
<@Reiv>
Mixed Member Proportional
00:32
<@Reiv>
In our case, 60 regional seats that work like senate seats or whatever ("I represent the East Ward of Hamilton")
00:33
<@Reiv>
And then 60 more that come from our second, 'party vote' - whereapon the dude who gets 40% of the party votes gets 40% of the 60 seats, with some methodical bits for edge case parties and seat rounding
00:33
<@Reiv>
They then all sit down in the same level of government.
00:33 * McMartin nods
00:34
<&McMartin>
I'm not sure if that's so much a method of voting as it is a method of representation
00:34
<@Reiv>
And therein lies the joke.
00:35
<@Reiv>
"We hate MMP!" "Vote for us and we'll hold a referundum on our method of choosing governments!" "YES PLZ" "OK, we'll change the voting bit." "wait what"
00:41
<&ToxicFrog>
God, I wish we had MMP.
00:42
<&ToxicFrog>
FPTP sucks so relentlessly and pervasively I'm not sure why anyone would have rosy memories of it
00:42
<&ToxicFrog>
Unless they are politicians who owe their seats to gerrymandering, perhaps~
00:42
<&McMartin>
ToxicFrog: Well, come to think of it, MMP would make the US Senate *even worse*
00:43
<&McMartin>
Actually, does anyone mind a change of subject? I have a design I want to bounce off the channel
00:43 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
00:44
<&McMartin>
I'm getting into the weeds on Monocle's object model, and I'm trying to get it minimal enough to do the job it needs to without unduly constraining client code.
00:45 VirusJTG__ [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code
00:46
<&McMartin>
Basically, I've got a sensible resource system at this point, so I can just handwave things like "sprite" and have that mean "and all the texture collation and frame information &c"
00:46
<&McMartin>
My idea for how a frame goes is that you have a high-level event loop that spews events at the client, and which it consumes and reacts to
00:47 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
00:47
<&McMartin>
There is a notion of game objects, but Monocle only knows super-basic things about them; location, velocity, hitbox, and which sprite to draw it with absent a user override.
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00:50
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: so, just quickly finishing up that thread - the reason MMP is attractive here is that we have like a 6 party system, but most of those get 0-2 seats despite routinely getting 5-10% of the vote, and thus have effectively no say in government.
00:51 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
00:52
<&McMartin>
A frame's worth of events is: Pre-input, any input events that happened this frame (including stuff like "object X got clicked on", but most input events are global), pre-physics (the 'usual' update step), any collision or object-out-of-bounds events the basic kinematics generate, and then the rendering steps
00:52
<@AnnoDomini>
ToxicFrog: How large is your parliament?
00:52
<&ToxicFrog>
Client - this is client-server? I thought Monocle was singleplyaer.
00:52 Kindamoody[zZz] [Kindamoody@Nightstar-05577424.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
00:52
<@Reiv>
(ToxicFrog: Which is precisely why we shifted to it)
00:52
<&McMartin>
"Client" here means "the people linking against monocle"
00:52
<&ToxicFrog>
Aah.
00:53
<&ToxicFrog>
AnnoDomini: 308 seats.
00:53
<&McMartin>
(Right, see, MMP would mean that the Tea Party would be uneradicable as an explicitly designed feature of the system)
00:53
<&McMartin>
I'm thinking game objects get classified into kinds, and a kind specifies a default sprite, and also specifies which of those events it overrides
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00:53
<@AnnoDomini>
ToxicFrog: Hmm, way past Dunbar, not good.
00:53
<&ToxicFrog>
(yeah, the closest thing we have to the Tea Party that actually gets >1% of the vote is probably the Partie Quebecois, and they aren't anywhere near as bad)
00:53
<&McMartin>
And then you also have a kind-to-kind relation for what collisions are interesting that respects inheritance
00:54
<&ToxicFrog>
(whereas it's the left-wing parties like the Green Party and the NDP that get squeezed out)
00:54
<&ToxicFrog>
(er, Bloc Quebecois rather)
00:56
<&McMartin>
I've basically got two aspects of this design that seem like they might be unduly restrictive
00:56
<&McMartin>
First, I'm imagining kinds to have only single inheritance, and it's not clear if that's restrictive at all or even if it simplifies the design
00:57
<&McMartin>
Second, you'll notice there's no concept equivalent to game maker's "rooms" here
00:58
<&McMartin>
This is in part because the room abstraction kept getting in my grill when I tried to implement things like pause and status menus
00:59
<&McMartin>
Is there any reason you can think of that I can't devolve that stuff wholly to the client? I could optimize it by allowing you to snapshot object sets and build active sets out of those.
00:59
<&McMartin>
(This would also mean that you wouldn't need one copy of the player object per level; it could be at some persistent level the client doesn't dispose of)
01:01
<&McMartin>
I think it makes sense to have the state machine for "what does input mean here" be part of the client engine, and it seems like I get that for "free" simplly by making input be a global event.
01:03
<@Reiv>
That seems broadly reasonable
01:03
<&McMartin>
A C++ application could have a class for interpreting that stuff - a GameMode class or something, and you could shift between them according to a state machine
01:03
<&McMartin>
(Rendering is, itself, about three steps)
01:03
<&McMartin>
One major feature GM has that this lacks is automatic support for "views"
01:04
<&McMartin>
I think I'm holding off on that until I shift to the SDL2 backend, which has automatic whole-window rotozoom
01:05
<&McMartin>
My first test for all of this is basically going to be a simulation of a carnival boardwalk shooting gallery, but I'm up for suggestions for super-simple games to implement as demos
01:05
<@Reiv>
Views?
01:06
<@Reiv>
A simple test: A card game.
01:06
<@Reiv>
Hell, implement War! if you must. >_>
01:06
<&McMartin>
OK, so, it also should actually test things like the basic physics engine and collision detection~
01:06
<&McMartin>
Views: did you play Iji?
01:07
<@AnnoDomini>
Reiv: Air War! :P
01:07
<@Reiv>
Physics engine and collision detection: Breakout.
01:07
<@Reiv>
I love breakout. <3
01:07
<@Reiv>
AnnoDomini: Is that where you take the deck and throw it at the other guy?
01:08
<&McMartin>
I'm leaning towards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibFejsipSC8 right now
01:08
<&McMartin>
Breakout has a set of controls I'm trying to avoid directly implementing. ;-)
01:09
<@Reiv>
... mouse?
01:10
<&McMartin>
Pretty much
01:10
<@Reiv>
Aw.
01:10
<@Reiv>
But mouse is <3
01:10
<&McMartin>
Though also, Breakout has some hidden Difficult Design Problems.
01:10
<&McMartin>
Oh, mouse *in general* has to be in
01:11
<@AnnoDomini>
Reiv: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Air_War
01:11
<@Reiv>
McMartin: Tell me about these problems then
01:11
<&McMartin>
But if the goal is "so, you're writing a 2D game, here's some code to steal to get started", Breakout Isn't That.
01:11
<&McMartin>
Because "the player character is at the mouse's X position" is only your control scheme if you're playing breakout.
01:12
<&McMartin>
The problem with writing Breakout is that getting a good playable bounce physics is really hard.
01:12
< Syka_>
you use mouse for breakout?
01:12
<&McMartin>
It isn't actually "reflect as off a mirror"
01:12
< Syka_>
huh
01:12
<&McMartin>
Syka_: Yeah, since PCs don't have dials, which is the True Control Scheme.
01:13
< Syka_>
i use the keyboard, now i feel like some variety of freak <v<
01:13
<&McMartin>
The arguments that apply to mouse supremacy for FPSen also apply to breakout, as it happens~
01:14
<@Reiv>
Yeah, that's fair
01:14
<@Reiv>
Oh well, it was an idea~
01:14
<@Reiv>
Hey
01:14
<@Reiv>
Throw together Sable 2D
01:14
<@Reiv>
Only with an end
01:14
<@Reiv>
... ahaha, I remember hearing about this one:
01:14
<&McMartin>
That's two phases down~
01:14
<@Reiv>
A shooter where enemies spawn at the rate you kill the old ones.
01:15
<&McMartin>
I want something with a "screen" instead of a "map" this time, so any shmup will be more like Galaga.
01:15
<@Reiv>
They also aggressively shoot back.
01:15
<&McMartin>
I mean, I could port Target Acquired to Monocle. That would actually probably even be worthwhile.
01:15 * Reiv thinks
01:15
<@Reiv>
That could work well.
01:15
<&McMartin>
It's kind of hilarous how a piece of high school juvenilia keeps getting reimplemented~
01:16
<@Reiv>
Because it's a good thing to reimplement?
01:16
<&McMartin>
Not really. It's a bad game on several grounds
01:16
<&McMartin>
But it's good at Hitting The Bases
01:17
<&McMartin>
Maybe this time it can do a mix of inertial and non-inertial enemies
01:17
<&McMartin>
Oh hey, it's also not online anymore
01:20
<&McMartin>
Anyway, views. Did you play Iji? Or, I guess, Hotline Miami or Gunpoint
01:21
<&McMartin>
Basically, Game Maker has a concept of "Rooms", but a "Room" is really closer to an "entire level", not "a screen"
01:22
<&McMartin>
A view is a subset of the room that is what is drawn to the screen. For a scrolling game like Iji, it follows the character around. For a flipscrolling game like Hero Core or Dapper Delver, it stays static and jumps a screen at a time as needed.
01:22
<@Reiv>
Hotline Miami and Gunpoint, yes
01:23
<@Reiv>
Oh, you mean "The bit that is on screen but not actually the entire level"?
01:23
<&McMartin>
Yeah
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01:23
<@Reiv>
Because I have also played Volgarr The Viking, Duke Nukem, and Commander Keen~
01:24
<&McMartin>
Yes, but those were not Actually Written In Game Maker.
01:24
<&McMartin>
Views also include "the window is 1920x1080, but the viewport is 640x480, zoom and pillarbox that, would you"
01:25
<&McMartin>
Which SDL2 has as a primitive, so I'm holding off on this until I do the SDL2 conversion
01:25
<&McMartin>
And that's a prerequisite for sensible scrolling maps, so~
01:26
<&McMartin>
I haven't actually decided yet whether I want tilemaps to be part of the Monocle engine or something that the client is responsible for doing.
01:26
<&McMartin>
I'm leaning towards the latter because there are so many ways one can do it.
01:34
<@Reiv>
So non-scrolling maps, OK
01:34
<@Reiv>
And a physics engine.
01:35
<@Reiv>
Donkey kong~
02:14
<&McMartin>
Oof. My code turns out to not be 32-bit clean
02:33 Thalass is now known as Thalass|codemonkey
02:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Awkward.
02:42
<@AnnoDomini>
You monster.
02:42 Panzer [Panzer@Nightstar-o7b.u5m.89.109.IP] has joined #code
02:43
< Syka_>
I... hm.
02:43
< Syka_>
my bank noticed I hadnt used an account for six months, that had nothing in it
02:43
< Syka_>
so they closed it for me
02:43
<@AnnoDomini>
Sounds bankish.
02:44
< Syka_>
...not sure if I should be happy that now I don't have to do it myself, or slightly scared that some code somewhere has a timer and a shutDownAccount() function
02:46
<&McMartin>
It's probably written in COBOL!
02:47
< Syka_>
McMartin: i know for a fact it is
02:47
< Syka_>
Commonwealth Bank is a Tier 1 bank
02:48
< Syka_>
iirc all of the tier 1s use cobol extensively :(
02:48
<@AnnoDomini>
Did they bill you the operation fee?
02:48
< Syka_>
...also, some store is selling DAS Model S'
02:49
< Syka_>
with a free wireless KB worth $55
02:49
< Syka_>
as someone In Business, I now want to know how fucking large their margins are to do that
02:49
< Syka_>
or, how desperate they are to clear DAS stock
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02:50
< Syka_>
since slightly less money than starting is better than no money and stock nobody wants
02:50
<&McMartin>
When you start it up does it say DAS BOOT
02:52
< Syka_>
...it's a keyboard
02:52
< Syka_>
...so if it boots up
02:52
< Syka_>
it must be a NSA Board
02:53
<@AnnoDomini>
McMartin: Once, I managed to hit a plane with the anti-ship cannon. Once.
02:53
< Syka_>
embedded Big Brother Functionality, for typing in the CloudĀ®!
02:54
<@Reiv>
... Oooh. A Nexus 5, eh?
02:54
<@Reiv>
That could very well compete with my phonemoneys, which has previously gone exclusively toward the Galaxy S.
02:55
<&McMartin>
Also, wait
02:55
<&McMartin>
Reiv, why have you not played Iji
02:55
<@Reiv>
McMartin: I played it briefly, and didn't enjoy it.
02:55
<@Reiv>
I was also expecting your analogy to be, uh, more detailed~
02:56
<&McMartin>
It's more "'Rooms' aren't."
02:56
<&McMartin>
There are tricks you're supposed to be able to do with views that would make it more detailed, but none of them frickin' work
02:56
<&McMartin>
So, "yeah, views are the thing those games use to do autoscrolling"
02:57
< Syka_>
the n5 looks interesting
02:57
< Syka_>
they didnt release 4.4 for the gnex (my phone)
02:57
< Syka_>
:(
02:57
<&McMartin>
(It's *supposed* to let you do picture-in-picture like the Descent missile cam, but that doesn't work)
02:58
<@Reiv>
(Because of Glitching, or?)
02:58
<@Reiv>
Syka: Yeah, it's why Nexus tempts me so
02:58
< Syka_>
min 2-3 week shipping delay now
02:58
<&McMartin>
(Objects not appearing where they should, major performance penalties, occasionally Just A Black Rectangle That Does Nothing, etc)
02:58
< Syka_>
fucking hell google
02:58
< Syka_>
learn to fucking stock
02:58
<@Reiv>
Samsung is awful at maintaining software updates; this is doublebad when they're the biggest smartphone maker for android.
02:58 Harlow [Harlow@Nightstar-2dbe3d64.il.comcast.net] has joined #code
02:59
< Harlow>
any advice on when to use a Virtual bool over a regular bool?
02:59
<@Reiv>
A whatnow?
02:59 ktemkin[work] is now known as ktemkin[afk]
02:59
<&McMartin>
Can you quote the entire line you're usin ghere?
03:00
< Syka_>
Reiv: they also add such an ugly shell on it
03:00
< Syka_>
ughhhh dealing with galaxy or htcs makes me sad
03:00
< Harlow>
C++, bool Button::checkPosition(int x,int y)
03:00
<@Reiv>
I don't mind the shell. The Nexus approach is hardly flawless.
03:01
< Harlow>
VS. virtual bool Button::checkPosition(int x,int y)
03:01
<@Reiv>
I mind a lot more that no-one sodding upgrades the stuff.
03:01
< Syka_>
everything is in a shitty place and looks "omg so inspired by nature" or "inspired by carbon fibre" im htcs case
03:01
< Syka_>
Reiv: samsung have been slightly less shit recently
03:01
< Syka_>
i think they have 4.2 on the SII now?
03:03
<@Reiv>
Serious?
03:03
<@Reiv>
Man.
03:03
<&McMartin>
Harlow: OK, so that "virtual" modifies checkPosition, not bool
03:03
<@Reiv>
I have the SI so I'm still on 2.33 >_>
03:03
< Harlow>
oh
03:03
<&McMartin>
A virtual method is one that's overridable by subclasses.
03:03
<&McMartin>
It looks like you're studying C++. Have you gotten to the bits about inheritance yet?
03:04
< Harlow>
I haven't exclusively covered inheritance yet.
03:04
< Syka_>
Reiv: cyanogenmod
03:04
< Syka_>
Reiv: i believe there is 4.1 for SI
03:07
< Syka_>
supports cm 10.2
03:07
< Syka_>
which is... android 4.3
03:07
<@Reiv>
Yeah, but I was avoiding rooting it
03:07
<@Reiv>
It's getting shaky enough as it is :p
03:07
< Syka_>
10.2 is still nightly
03:07
< Syka_>
but 10.1 is stable
03:07
<&McMartin>
Harlow: OK. "Virtual" is intimately tied up with the notion of inheritance, so for now, there's no difference.
03:07
< Syka_>
heh
03:08
< Syka_>
well, it's a complete wipe
03:08
< Syka_>
so stability depends on your hardware~
03:08
<&McMartin>
The two rules you need now are "if you're subclassing some other class, copy the virtual-ness of the method you're replacing", and "if *any other* method is virtual, the destructor should be virtual."
03:08
<&McMartin>
The rest will come when you get to inheritance.
03:17
<&McMartin>
Oh hey wait, this demo code I'm writing can play any MOD-like file.
03:17 * McMartin swaps that out for the Crusader No Remorse soundtrack for himself.
03:21
< Syka_>
http://3v4l.org/XXbtf
03:21 * Syka_ bursts into laughter
03:22
<~Vornicus>
syka_: !?
03:23
< Syka_>
php <3
03:25
<@AnnoDomini>
Dafuq.
03:31
<@Alek>
wat
03:31
<@Alek>
look at the performance tab.
03:32
<@Alek>
a 2-line php script uses multiple MiBs?
03:32
< Syka_>
Alek: PHP!
03:32
< Syka_>
because RAM is cheap!
03:33
<@Alek>
and of course it has different output in different versions.
03:33
<@Alek>
this is the best argument yet to stay FAR away from php.
03:33 * Thalass|codemonkey reads up
03:33
< Syka_>
why has nobody written a php interpreter in node.js
03:34
< Syka_>
so that we can funnel all the horrible people to one framework
03:34
< Syka_>
note: if there is a php interpreter in node.js, PLEASE DON'T TELL ME
03:34
< Syka_>
i would prefer to be just sick, rather than sick and inconsolably miserable
03:35
<@Alek>
out of the listed versions, looks like 4.3.1 was the least resource-intensive.
03:35
<@Alek>
I hesitate to say most efficient.
03:36
< Thalass|codemonkey>
The galaxy nexus is a nexus, so samsung's arsehattery shouldn't interfere with the availability of updates.
03:36
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: yes
03:37
< Syka_>
but theres an 18 month limit to google updates
03:37
< Syka_>
so theyve axed the gnex, which is 22 months old
03:37
< Syka_>
oh well, cyanogenmod will provide
03:38
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Oh, i didn't know that. I got sick of waiting for Android 4.1 to come to my GNote, so i put CM on it. Now i'm enjoying 4.3 with only a few horrible glitches - which have just served to teach me to not be so update-happy with nightlies. :P
03:38
< Syka_>
haha
03:38
< Syka_>
i ran the cm 10.1 nightly gauntlet for months on two devices
03:39
< Syka_>
never again :(
03:40 * Alek shudders.
03:40
< Thalass|codemonkey>
I just keep myself a few days behind the latest, and check the xda forums for major complaints before updating.
03:40
<@Alek>
this is one of the reasons I don't volunteer for more betas.
03:40
<@Alek>
although I AM hoping to get into the Steam beta.
03:41
< Syka_>
ugh. so goddamn sick.
03:41
< Syka_>
maybe i should have today off
03:41
<@Alek>
when is the decision, does anyone know?
03:41
< Syka_>
Alek: which steam beta
03:41
<@Alek>
or did it already happen and I wasn't told? ;_;
03:41
< Syka_>
i'm in the steam beta
03:41
<@Alek>
steamos+steambox+steamcontroller
03:41
< Syka_>
oh
03:41
< Syka_>
that's not the steam beta then
03:41
< Syka_>
that's the steambox beta
03:41
< Syka_>
(there is a "steam beta")
03:41
<@Alek>
...
03:42
<@Alek>
what's that?
03:42
< Syka_>
steam client beta
03:42
< Syka_>
if you used steamonlinux
03:42
<@Alek>
oh. that.
03:42
<@Alek>
ohh.
03:42
< Syka_>
you get to be a full beta person
03:42
< Syka_>
which means ~magical crashy client~
03:42
< Syka_>
currently looks pretty shiny tho
03:42 * Alek doesn't regularly run linux. only when there's a huge problem with his machine booting, mainly.
03:43
<@Alek>
like when my last main disk failed. :/
03:43
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Damnit now i want to update Planetary Annihilation and blow some beta bots :P
03:43
< Thalass|codemonkey>
*blow UP
03:44
< Syka_>
i didnt realise you swung the mechanical way
03:44
< Syka_>
just remember WD40 is your friend
03:44
< Syka_>
but yeah, steam is doing pretty ok on linux right now
03:44
< Thalass|codemonkey>
*snerk*
03:45
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Yeah it's totally the Year Of The Linux Desktop now. >.>
03:45
< Thalass|codemonkey>
(but it works well for me)
03:45
< Syka_>
hm, so
03:45
< Syka_>
nexus 5, 16GB, $400 AUD
03:45
<@Alek>
...
03:46
<@Alek>
16GB? heresy.
03:46 * AnnoDomini appreciates Word 2010 in comparison with OOO.
03:46 * Alek cuddles his Note3.
03:46
< Syka_>
Alek: my gnex is 16GB
03:46
< Syka_>
i have no problems with that size :P
03:46
<@Alek>
ah, then you're used to it. XD
03:46
<@Alek>
have fun.
03:46
< Syka_>
the 32GB is $450
03:46
< Syka_>
Alek: heh
03:46
< Syka_>
i don't use ~any~ space
03:46
<@Alek>
I just wish I could get the 64GB version. oh well, at least it supports my microSD cards.
03:46 * Thalass|codemonkey eyes Alek
03:46
< Syka_>
lessee, storage
03:46
< Thalass|codemonkey>
waaaant Gnote3
03:47
< Syka_>
total space, 13gb, 1.57gb free
03:47
< Syka_>
hmm
03:47 * Alek got it the day before US release.
03:47
< Thalass|codemonkey>
my Gnote is showing its age somewhat.
03:47
< Syka_>
oh, most of it is cache
03:47
< Syka_>
and updates i havent deleted
03:47
<@Alek>
it was supposed to be out on Oct 3. we went to the Tmobile store on the evening of the 2nd, and got one each for my brother and me.
03:47
< Syka_>
wow
03:47
< Syka_>
the n4 is $300 now
03:48
< Syka_>
the 8gb is $250
03:48
<@Alek>
o_o
03:48
< Thalass|codemonkey>
My phone contract doesn't expire until March, but if i get a pay rise soon i might just buy at Gnote outright.
03:48
< Syka_>
"At only 130 g and 8.59 mm thin, itās the most powerful Nexus phone yet."
03:48
< Syka_>
google is doing apple-style non-sequiters again
03:48 * Alek would have his 32GB full if it weren't for the card. music, some music videos, ebooks (ha, those are a pittance), and a handful of apps. a huge handful.
03:48
< Syka_>
stop it google
03:48
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Though i've read that the Gnote3 has an issue where Samsung are being dicks. Namely: If you buy the phone in one region, you will be charged roaming rates in other regions even if you put a local sim card in. This is unacceptable.
03:49
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Yeah Google. Don't Be Evil, remember?
03:49
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: why would you buy *any* phone that isnt unlocked
03:49
< Syka_>
seriously
03:49
< Syka_>
although
03:49
<@Alek>
Thal: Tmobile has no-roaming-charges in most of the world, looks like. so there's that.
03:49
< Thalass|codemonkey>
This is separate to unlockedness, iirc.
03:49
< Syka_>
in the US, you guys are kinda fucked
03:49
< Syka_>
because every 2nd carrier uses a different standard
03:50
< Thalass|codemonkey>
I'll have to do more research etc later on.
03:50
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: you mean that the bought outright phones aren't unlocked?
03:50
< Syka_>
wat
03:51
<@Alek>
well, not really. we have about 4 major networks, hosted by the 4 major carriers, with all the minor ones hitching rides on the major ones' networks.
03:51
< Syka_>
well, I guess thats similar here
03:51
< Syka_>
at least
03:51
< Syka_>
when you're a derp
03:51
<@Alek>
then we have a dozen standards that are cherrypicked by the various providers.
03:51
< Syka_>
ohhh
03:51
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: you're aussie
03:51
< Syka_>
give me a second, i have something you'd like then
03:52
< Thalass|codemonkey>
k
03:52
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: are you in a 4G area?
03:53
< Syka_>
well, everyone should be soon
03:53
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/samsung-galaxy-note-3-n9005-4g-lte-32gb-black/
03:53
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: $729, free shipping, unlocked
03:53 * Alek is SO thankful he doesn't live in the great plains proper, the northwest, or the southwest except for cali. those guys are SCREWED when it comes to coverage.
03:53
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Bah. I'm in a known black spot, because all the nearby towers are on the wrong side of the hill to my house, or are just visible over the rooftops but i suspect the tin is scrambling the signal enough to make it unreliable.
03:54 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
03:54
< Syka_>
Telstra won't even sell you a GN3
03:54
< Thalass|codemonkey>
oooo shiny.
03:54
< Syka_>
it appears
03:54
<@Alek>
we have 3 or 4 towers within a mile from here, we can SEE them from our windows easily, but... the first floor has erratic signal.
03:54
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Neither do virgin, i just checked. :P
03:54 * Thalass|codemonkey nods.
03:55
< Thalass|codemonkey>
And signal boosters are illegal in oz. bah
03:55
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: well, this is unlocked, so
03:55
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: actually, they're not!
03:55
<@Alek>
heh
03:55
< Syka_>
http://www.kogan.com/au/buy/nextivity-cel-fi-3g-repeater-booster/
03:55
< Syka_>
there is *one* legal one
03:55
< Syka_>
and it's $750 :D
03:56
<@Alek>
anyone remember those antennas you could slip over your cell phone antenna? or the ones you screwed in place of it, if you could unscrew the old one?
03:56
<@Alek>
or for that matter, the antenna films you could attach inside the battery cover? XD
03:56
< Syka_>
nope :(
03:56
< Syka_>
i remember the little gsm sticker things
03:56
< Syka_>
that would flash within range of gsm
03:56
<@Alek>
old stuff. when you still had fixed or pull-up cell phone antennas.
03:57
< Syka_>
Alek: I am not that old unfortunately :<
03:57
<@Alek>
oh, those flashing stickers... first I've heard of those. XD
03:57
<@Alek>
Syka... I am. ;_;
03:57
< Thalass|codemonkey>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/27/samsung_galaxy_regionlocking_saga_gets_m urky/ <-- Actually it seems to be an effort to curb grey-market business rather than prevent people taking phones with them on holidays.
03:57
<@Alek>
this was in the LATE 90's/early 00s.
03:57
< Syka_>
i'm 19, so, I got all the stuff when it was not-shit
03:57
< Thalass|codemonkey>
That booster only works with telstra next g, Syka_
03:57
<@Alek>
;_;
03:57
< Syka_>
the nokia 3310 was the oldest mobile phone I had
03:57
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: you mean you're not on telstra?
03:57
< Syka_>
owO
03:58
< Thalass|codemonkey>
haha
03:58
< Syka_>
why would one not be on telstra
03:58
< Syka_>
well, up here, it's the only choice
03:58
< Syka_>
the other carriers don't put anything up on the tower
03:58
<@Alek>
oh hey, I still have a wifi finder keychain dongle. XD which is quite useless now, and was back then actually.
03:58
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Within metro areas non-telstra coverage is just as good as telstra. Also: Telstra are jerks in general, pining for the days when they were an actual monopoly rather than a virtual one they are now.
03:58
< Syka_>
so city people come up, having signed like a 48 month contract with Optus, with a shiny new iphone
03:59
< Thalass|codemonkey>
heh yeah. FIFO people have that problem.
03:59
<@Alek>
but more so now, when receivers are WAY more sensitive than that thing.
03:59
< Syka_>
then they have to cancel and pay it out because they only get signal in certain parts of town
03:59
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: oh man
03:59
< Syka_>
i went to perth
03:59
< Syka_>
with my at the time htc desire
03:59
< Syka_>
did a speedtest
03:59
< Syka_>
got -0.00Mb/s download :'D
03:59
< Thalass|codemonkey>
pfff
04:00
< Syka_>
phone didnt actually work for three days, then it came good
04:00
< Thalass|codemonkey>
odd.
04:00
< Syka_>
...then I bought a HTC Sensation off Telstra
04:00
< Syka_>
worst purchase I have ever made :(
04:01
< Syka_>
ooh, i found my pictures when i first bought it
04:01
< Syka_>
it was during CHOGM 2011
04:01 * Alek had a samsung flip-bar for 4 years. thing had maybe 1 or 2 problems, easily fixed by reboots, over the whole time. not even a battery problem.
04:02
< Syka_>
i loved how http://reddrgn.net/tidbits_old/files/pic/9.jpg was the example of mac gaming in the apple store
04:02
<@Alek>
in fact, the battery's STILL just as good as it was then.
04:02
<&McMartin>
Blargh.
04:03
<@Alek>
heeeey, lego star wars. I need to get around to playing my copy some day.
04:03
< Syka_>
also this piece of shit! http://reddrgn.net/tidbits_old/files/pic/17.jpg
04:03
<&McMartin>
jeroud: No dice on the SDL stuff. Even with the objc stuff it's a tremendous pain to get stuff to build right.
04:03
<@Alek>
ok, maybe not QUITE as good, it lasted for at least a week when I got it, but only about 6 days at the end there. XD
04:03
< Syka_>
i may have actually seen it completed, i don't remember
04:03
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Gods. If i was female i would totally want to have Chainfire's babies. He(?) seems to have written an application to take away the region lock issue.
04:03
< Syka_>
but it still looks like some post-modernist bullshit
04:04
<&McMartin>
I'm going to need to recruit people post-SDL2 to make a usable .framework that doesn't have horrible absolute path dependencies Freaking Everywhere &c
04:06
<@Alek>
heh. not to be a 'muritard, but do you guys celebrate halloween in Oz and N-Zed?
04:06
< Syka_>
yes and no
04:06
< Syka_>
the same way we celebrate #yolo
04:07
< Syka_>
ie. it's the teenagers, everyone older than that is like "ugh american things"
04:07
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Oddly enough nobody minds celebrating Octoberfest
04:07
< Syka_>
oktoberfest is different though
04:07
< Syka_>
ie. it has alcohol
04:07
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Or anything else foreign. But we do halloween, because my wife is Canadian.
04:08
< Syka_>
Thalass|codemonkey: "alcohol" makes it suitable for "allowed cultural imports"
04:08
< Thalass|codemonkey>
haha true
04:08
< Syka_>
also, apparently the German Oktoberfest is mainly Bavarians and pissed-up Aussies
04:08
< Syka_>
so I guess we're just "exchanging culture" (getting smashed)
04:09
<&McMartin>
Exchanging yeast cultures. Applied to malt. And hops.
04:09
<&McMartin>
And grains.
04:09
< Syka_>
for "mutual trust and understanding" (yelling drinking anthems)
04:09
< Thalass|codemonkey>
I've heard that, too.
04:09
< Thalass|codemonkey>
Anyway. AFK. Spawnling needs food or something (who knew?) :P
04:09 Thalass|codemonkey is now known as Thalass|afk
04:10
<&McMartin>
I will grant an America Fuck Yeah for using a drinking anthem as the tune for the national anthem
04:11
< Syka_>
McMartin: which country is this
04:12
<&McMartin>
The US. "The Star-Spangled Banner" is set to "To Anacreon in Heaven", a drinking song of the day.
04:12
< Syka_>
he
04:12
< Syka_>
h
04:13
<&McMartin>
That said, given how fucking hard it is to sing 18th-century drunks must have been fucking amazing
04:13 * Syka_ <3 her deploy scripts
04:13
< Syka_>
seriously i am really happy with them
04:14
<@AnnoDomini>
McMartin: Seems likely given that hundred year-old reaction time test they repeated on modern people recently.
04:21
<@Alek>
people today are soft and lazy, yadda yadda
04:22
<@AnnoDomini>
Yes.
04:22
<@AnnoDomini>
A direct consequence of our standard of living.
04:22 Thalass|afk is now known as Thalass
04:22 * AnnoDomini sleep.
04:23
< Syka_>
a direct consequence of being awesome
04:23
<&McMartin>
Maybe we're better at beer now.
04:23
< Syka_>
we made machines do that quick stuff for us
04:23
<&McMartin>
Maybe I should learn CMake
04:29
<@Alek>
and don't forget how a ton of drinking songs had at least a hundred verses.
04:30
<&McMartin>
To be fair, after awhile you can claim that you sang all hundred verses flawlessly and nobody's sober enough to gainsay you.
04:31
<&McMartin>
o/~ Oh, me pa sent me to school / But I found it much too hard / When they asked me "Where does coal come from?" / I said "Me neighbors' yard" o/~
04:31
<@Alek>
and most of the verses were each bawdier than the last.
04:32
<@Alek>
like the hedgehog or the wizard's staff from Discworld.
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07:24
<&McMartin>
Anyway, Windows monocle now works
07:25
<&McMartin>
(WHY IS IT EASIER TO PORT FROM LINUX TO WINDOWS THAN MAC)
07:25
< Syka_>
because it just werks
07:25
< Syka_>
qait
07:25
< Syka_>
wait*
07:25
<&McMartin>
also, why is mingw finding genuine bugs in the code that stock gcc is not
07:25
<@froztbyte>
kuwait?
07:25
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: gcc isn't very great software
07:26
<@froztbyte>
it's okayish software
07:26
<&McMartin>
Yes, but mingw *is* gcc
07:26
<@froztbyte>
yes, but
07:26
<@froztbyte>
mingw have had to cover a couple more "oh, one more thing" cases
07:26
<&McMartin>
I suppose
07:26
<@froztbyte>
I remember having the same experience about 6 years ago
07:26
<&McMartin>
This was use-before-def though and I thought gcc caught all those as long as you set at least -O1
07:26
<@froztbyte>
not even mildly complicated code
07:27
<@froztbyte>
bloodshed dev.net + mingw
07:27
<@froztbyte>
or whatnot
07:27
<&McMartin>
Ah yes, Bloodshed Software
07:27
<@froztbyte>
would pick up things my linux box (at the time gedit + gcc) would not
07:27
<@froztbyte>
(yes, I was /that green/ a mere 5~6 years ago)
07:30
<&McMartin>
dev-c++ was still live software 5-6 years ago, wasn't it?
07:32
<&McMartin>
I remember Sable used to have Dev-C++ project files maintained for it
07:33
<&McMartin>
But yeah, MSYS really does pretty much just work
07:34
<&McMartin>
The only real changes I had to make was to remove a few POSIX-specific compiler flags and rename the .so to .dll
07:34
<&McMartin>
... and then install zip because MSYS doesn't by default
07:34
<&McMartin>
When MSYS says "minimal system" it isn't kidding
08:19
< Tarinaky_>
http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~crypto/java/ENTROPY/ << Can anyone else get the applet on this page to work?
08:19
< Tarinaky_>
Oh hang on, yay.
08:19
< Tarinaky_>
Working now.
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08:30 mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ
08:33
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: yeah, it was still alive then
08:33
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: last while of its lifetime, aiui
08:52 You're now known as TheWatcher
09:05 Thalass is now known as Pirate_chef
09:10 * TheWatcher readsup
09:13
<@TheWatcher>
Huzzah for working windows monocle!
09:13
< AverageJoe>
<working>|<windows>
09:13
< AverageJoe>
choose one
09:20
<&McMartin>
Incorrect!
09:20
<&McMartin>
It turns out Mac is the one made of spiders and abandonment.
09:21
<&McMartin>
00:30 <&McMartin> But yeah, MSYS really does pretty much just work
09:21
<&McMartin>
00:30 <&McMartin> The only real changes I had to make was to remove a few POSIX-specific compiler flags and rename the .so to .dll
09:21
< Tarinaky_>
Yeah, every Friday and Monday our AI lecturer's Mac sabotages her lecture by doing weird things.
09:22
< Tarinaky_>
Nice Power Point you have there, pity if someone were to activate the Expose view.
09:23
<@froztbyte>
that pretty much sounds like operator incompetence
09:23
<@froztbyte>
but then that's most people with computers, so...
09:23
<&McMartin>
I dunno
09:23
< Tarinaky_>
Just because the problem exists between keyboard and chair doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
09:24
<&McMartin>
When they do things like put the system hibernate key between the volume control buttons, I blame the keyboard designer~
09:24
<@froztbyte>
I can't speak for most
09:24
<@froztbyte>
but I've seen one HP laptop with that same kind of idiocy
09:25
<@froztbyte>
(on my Air, the power button is top-right, and volume just are the two keys left of it)
09:25
<&McMartin>
On my System76 laptop, the alternate function keys for F2, F3, F4, F5, and F6 are, in order: Shut Down, Mute, Hibernate, Volume Down, Volume Up
09:26
<&McMartin>
This displeases me
09:27
< Tarinaky_>
The F3's alternate is to turn the wireless hardware on/off on my laptop...
09:27
< Tarinaky_>
The Fn key is next to the 'Windows'/Meta key...
09:27
< Tarinaky_>
And F3 is very close to 3.
09:27
< Tarinaky_>
The number of times I've disconnected from the internet instead of switching desktops is large.
09:28
<@froztbyte>
esc, brightness down, brightness up, expose(-I'm-on-windows-fuck-I-can't-compose-argh), launchpad (think menu), keyboard brightness down, keyboard brightness up, media prev, media play/pause, media next, mute, voldown, volup, power
09:28
<@froztbyte>
on mine
09:28
<@froztbyte>
and I need to press fn if I want F-key functionality
09:28
<@froztbyte>
this actually works pretty okay for most of my time
09:28
<@froztbyte>
(it's actually only in games that I've needed F-keys)
09:29
<@froztbyte>
I'm not gonna drag the lenovo out now, but that's just made of dumb
09:39 * McMartin attempts to install the SDL2 dev libraries.
09:39 * McMartin guesses libsdl2-dev, is wrong
09:39
<&McMartin>
mcmartin@osmium:~/devel/monocle/bin$ sudo apt-cache search sdl2
09:39
<&McMartin>
python-zsi - Zolera Soap Infrastructure
09:39
<@froztbyte>
hahaha
09:39
<@froztbyte>
that's probably the description
09:40
<&McMartin>
sudo apt-cache search libsdl gives a shitload of stuff, all of it 1.2
09:40
<@froztbyte>
(in it, I mean)
09:40
<@froztbyte>
k, one moment
09:40
<&McMartin>
I swear I saw these in the repo just last week
09:40
<@froztbyte>
what is this, wheezy?
09:40
< Tarinaky_>
I think, for SDL2, you probably need to build it yourself.
09:40
<&McMartin>
Precise.
09:40
<@froztbyte>
oh god
09:40
<&McMartin>
I refuse
09:40
<@froztbyte>
you're on your own
09:40
<&McMartin>
froztbyte: It often overlaps!
09:40
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: if it was debian, I would've gone out of my way to help you
09:41
<&McMartin>
Ah, I see =P
09:41
<@froztbyte>
but since it's hookers&blow country, nein danke
09:41
<@froztbyte>
people have a really bad view of debian for really bad reasons, and I like to fix that
09:41 youaredead[]]a`] [youaredead@Nightstar-s1a.j1p.169.202.IP] has joined #code
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09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]_[^]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]_[^]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]_[^]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]_[^]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[][^a]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[][^a]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[][^a]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]_[^]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[][^a]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[][^a]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[][^a]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41 youaredead[][^a] was kicked from #code by froztbyte [Kindergarten is elsewhere!]
09:41 mode/#code [+b *!*ouaredead@*.pq4.202.124.IP] by McMartin
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41
< youaredead[]]a`]>
FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoD FLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDFLOoDF
09:41 youaredead[]]a`] was kicked from #code by froztbyte [Kindergarten is elsewhere!]
09:41
< Tarinaky_>
About that time again eh chaps?
09:41
<@froztbyte>
stupidly, I can't kickban in quassel
09:42 youaredead[]_[^] [youaredead@Nightstar-6q0.pq4.202.124.IP] has quit [Connection closed]
09:42
<&McMartin>
froztbyte: Note that when I fail in Ubuntu, I blame Debian for it
09:42
<@froztbyte>
question though
09:42
<@froztbyte>
can't we just textban that shit?
09:42
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: heh
09:42
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: seriously though, I recently ... persuaded Syka to check out debian
09:42
<@froztbyte>
and after helping undo the initial bits of ubuntu braindamage
09:43
<@froztbyte>
she's loving it
09:44
<&McMartin>
That's great if you don't have to interact with the rest of the universe
09:44
<&McMartin>
I have to run what deploy targets run
09:44
<&McMartin>
(Happily that means *not* Ubuntu 13.x =P)
09:44
<@froztbyte>
eh
09:45
<@froztbyte>
at $work we have a whole fleet of ububububuntu
09:45
<~Vornicus>
froztbyte: while there is a mode for it, it also prevents bold, italic, and underline.
09:45
<@froztbyte>
"you know a thing well enough when you can say why it sucks"
09:45
<@froztbyte>
Vornicus: heh.
09:45
<&McMartin>
froztbyte: So, uh, am I at least entering reasonable commands here
09:46
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: yes
09:46
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: I'm going to glance at packages.ubuntu.com now
09:46
<~Vornicus>
gneh, I was redirected to magrathea instead of where my admin line is
09:47
<&McMartin>
Maybe I did this test in a livecd or something before.
09:47
<@froztbyte>
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=sdl2
09:47
<@froztbyte>
saucy seems to have it all
09:47
<@froztbyte>
so
09:47
<@froztbyte>
what you could do
09:47
<@froztbyte>
add saucy to your repo list
09:47
<@froztbyte>
pin it /way/ the hell down
09:47
<@froztbyte>
(do you know how to pin?)
09:47
<&McMartin>
(No)
09:48
<&McMartin>
This sounds like more work than building from source already
09:48
<@froztbyte>
(do you wish to acquire this knowledge?)
09:48
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: it's actually not
09:48
<&McMartin>
(Not at 0248 while sick)
09:48
<@froztbyte>
it's one line in /etc/apt/sources.list or a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
09:48
<@froztbyte>
and a line in /etc/apt/preferences
09:49
<@froztbyte>
err, 3 lines, sorry
09:49
<@froztbyte>
https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences#A.2Fetc.2Fapt.2Fpreferences
09:49
<@froztbyte>
so you'd want to pin at priority -1
09:49
<@froztbyte>
and release 'saucy'
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10:36
<@simon`>
dealing with unary minus in lexical analysis: isn't it best to produce a token, MINUS, and let the parser solve the ambiguity?
10:37
<@simon`>
I don't see a reasonable way of solving the ambiguity this early.
10:39
<~Vornicus>
simon`: in regular infix math, your tokens go thing operator thing operator thing operator thing.
10:40
<~Vornicus>
So you can alternate between modes.
10:40
<&McMartin>
Argh, other dependencies
10:40 * McMartin finishes building from source before getting a chimera system working right.
10:40
<&McMartin>
(To be fair, this was with one exception a matter of configure make make install, and I think that exception is what was burning me)
10:41
<&McMartin>
Hrm, possibly not. I guess we'll see after this song finishes
10:42
<~Vornicus>
with, say, javascript syntax: in the mode where you expect an operator, ( is function call, [ is array index, { is "the previous statement has ended and now I'm in a block"
10:42
<&McMartin>
(It's defaulting to modplog instead of mikmod, and SDL2_mixer's modplug support doesn't properly handle MODs that have intros.)
10:42
<~Vornicus>
Similarly, - is binary minus in that mode.
10:43
<&McMartin>
Mikmod is being... inconsistent
10:43
<~Vornicus>
In the mode where you expect a thing, - is unary minus, ( is the start of a grouping, [ is the start of an array literal, and { is the start of an object literal.
10:43
<@simon`>
Vornicus, so if I've just lexed a number, any subsequent - must be infix (e.g. "2 - 3"), and any immediately subsequent - after that must be unary (e.g. "2 - -3"), and three "-"es after each other is, it seems, an error.
10:43
<@simon`>
Vornicus, thanks :)
10:50
<~Vornicus>
Similarly: prefix and postfix operators can be lexed as different objects this way; parentheses around conditionals reduce your language, uh, level?
10:51
<~Vornicus>
even if you go "blocks are required for conditional statements"
11:09 Pirate_chef is now known as Thalass
11:38
< JustBob>
Fuck me sideways.
11:38
< JustBob>
I hate Excel sometimes.
11:38
< JustBob>
Vorn. How do I do isoconcentrations in Excel?
11:39
<~Vornicus>
what the fuck is an isoconcentration
11:39
< JustBob>
Like, I want to plot X as time, Y as depth, and on that graph, plot percentage removal at a given X,Y intersection.
11:39
< JustBob>
Then use that percentage data to plot percentage removal lines.
11:39
< JustBob>
One second, lemme find the example.
11:40
< JustBob>
http://i.imgur.com/cugVQUz.png
11:40
<~Vornicus>
you want to plot those lines.
11:40
< JustBob>
I want to display the circled values, and then plot those lines.
11:41
< JustBob>
They're X% lines.
11:41
< JustBob>
Because I can't even get it to plot the damned things
11:41
<@froztbyte>
(why is bob plotting with excel?)
11:41
< JustBob>
Because it tells me to.
11:41
<~Vornicus>
Okay.
11:41
< JustBob>
I could do this in 30 minutes in MatLab
11:41
< JustBob>
Not 3 hours of hatefucking my eyes in Excel.
11:41
<~Vornicus>
Surface chart, top down view.
11:42
<@froztbyte>
JustBob: "it" = your lecturer/prof/whatever? ;P
11:42
< JustBob>
Yup
11:43
< JustBob>
Vorn - I facefault. Because now that I've been told to use surface instead of scatter...
11:43
< JustBob>
I can probably figure this out.
11:45
<~Vornicus>
You can format the dependent axis to give you iso lines at fixed intervals.
11:45
<@froztbyte>
huh, http://prosody.im/ seems like it might be interesting
11:45
<@froztbyte>
wholly different language for the server
11:46
< JustBob>
Ah, okay
11:47
<~Vornicus>
Labelling data points might be a little harder.
11:49 * Tarinaky_ glares at Chrome for being really weird all of a sudden :/
11:49
< JustBob>
How do I forment the dependent axis?
11:57
< JustBob>
Because I could do this by hand.
11:57
< JustBob>
So easily.
12:00
<~Vornicus>
Justbob: get it selected, and choose "format axis'
12:01
< JustBob>
okay
12:01
< JustBob>
and?
12:03
<~Vornicus>
your, um, -- shit, don't remember the exact names. One of the values in there is a grid spacing.
12:04
<~Vornicus>
Set it to 5 and it will give you isolines (not smoothed, unfortunately) every 5.
12:04
< JustBob>
okay
12:05
< JustBob>
Doesn't do anything
12:05
<~Vornicus>
Uh... hm
12:06
< JustBob>
Do you want me to just send you the file?
12:06
< JustBob>
I literally have no idea wtf to do with manipulating this data
12:07
<~Vornicus>
...sure
12:07
< JustBob>
What I'd prefer is to have some sort of 3d XYZ plot where I can spec time as X, depth as Y, and just /display/ the Z values.
12:07
< JustBob>
I can draw the damned isolines by hand if I have to.
12:08
< JustBob>
people.oregonstate.edu/~loa/Class/hw3.xlsx
12:10
<~Vornicus>
gnah, silly thing, let me select the right axis.
12:11
<~Vornicus>
Okay, click approximately around the lower left corner; you want to get the vertical (value) axis.
12:12
<~Vornicus>
format /that/, change Major Unit to 5.
12:14
< JustBob>
Okay
12:14
< JustBob>
THat makes a lot more sense.
12:15
<~Vornicus>
obviously this isn't very pretty.
12:15
<~Vornicus>
It only does linear interpolation along orthogonal lines in the data.
12:17
< JustBob>
eh
12:17
< JustBob>
good enough
12:17
< JustBob>
just wish it had data labels, too, but w/e
12:17
< JustBob>
I'm tossing the points on this one
12:39 Thalass [thalass@Nightstar-k6vtdf.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
13:08 * Syka_ has a very intense sad at this client PC
13:09
<@TheWatcher>
Is it like an entire depressed clown car of sad?
13:09
< Syka_>
it's old enough to have an IDE drive, is 90% dust, and has a pentium D
13:09
< Syka_>
TheWatcher: that is a very apt description for this variety of sad
13:09
< Syka_>
so yeah, I am just not going to touch it
13:09
< Syka_>
and call up the client tomorrow and go "yeah, no"
13:10
<@TheWatcher>
Better idea: charge them $5000 to set it up as a /dev/null as a Service node!
13:10
< Syka_>
I /really/ don't like telling people "you need to buy a new PC, as this one is way past its use by date"
13:10
< Syka_>
TheWatcher: ehhh, it's an individual
13:10
< Syka_>
and a family friend, too
13:10
<@TheWatcher>
Bah, fine
13:10
<@TheWatcher>
$4500
13:10
< Syka_>
rofl
13:10
< Syka_>
sounds like my main competitor in town
13:11
< Syka_>
once he sold someone a "new" PC for $3K
13:11
< Syka_>
it had someone elses photos already on it :'D
13:11
<@TheWatcher>
.... eech. That's just scum.
13:12
< Syka_>
yeppp
13:12
< Syka_>
my OTHER competitor tried to sell a $12,000 fuji-xerox printer to a non-profit with two office staff
13:13
<@TheWatcher>
Classy.
13:15
< Syka_>
oh and it was billed per page on top of that
13:15
< Syka_>
I got them a $700 brother which did the exact same and had an only very marginally more expensive per page cost
13:15
< Syka_>
well, "exact same" as in, everything but A3
13:16
< Syka_>
but they didn't want A3, so, practically the same for their purposes
13:27
< Tarinaky_>
You must make a killing.
13:27
< Tarinaky_>
With competitors like that.
13:28
< Syka_>
Tarinaky_: it depends!
13:28
< Syka_>
Tarinaky_: I have a combination of Knowing What I'm Doing, and then I have complete social ineptitude and crushing laziness
13:28
< Syka_>
in the past... almost-year, I've issued some 73 invoices
13:28
< Syka_>
with a post-tax value of $35K
13:29
< Tarinaky_>
Dare I ask how many of said invoices get paid? :p
13:29
< Syka_>
naturally, a lot of that is hardware costs, so the profit is much lower
13:29
< Syka_>
Tarinaky_: all of them!
13:29
< Tarinaky_>
That's okay then.
13:29
< Syka_>
Tarinaky_: well, except two that are currently within the 30 day limit
13:30
< Syka_>
but yeah
13:30
< Syka_>
this next contract is going to be great
13:31
< Syka_>
proper consulting work @v@
13:31
< Syka_>
(aka: lots of billable hours)
13:31
< Syka_>
and I even beat out a multi-million dollar multi-state consulting corp on it!
13:31
< Syka_>
which i'm still giggling about
13:37 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-90d86201.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code
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13:46
< Tarinaky_>
Well, if you're looking to hire~ :p
14:10 Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
14:15
< Xires>
general query: as a professional programmer with over, say, 5 years of experience in a particular language; should you no longer have need for a language reference?
14:16
< Tarinaky_>
'No'. Reference manuals are bloody useful.
14:16
<@gnolam>
You'll always have a need for a language reference.
14:17
< Tarinaky_>
It's literally impossible for one person to remember even the standard libraries, in their entirety, for anything other than a toy language.
14:18
< Xires>
that was my thought
14:19
< Xires>
I went in for a 'test' for Check Point Software Technologies and was denied access to a language reference for the test
14:19
< Xires>
just couldn't remember the fscking syntax for what I was trying to do
14:19
< JustBob>
That's what we in the business call bloody fucking stupid.
14:19
< JustBob>
But I admit that I'm not a coder; I'm an engineer.
14:19
< Xires>
out of 4 tests, the firewall && antivirus tests were done in under 15 minutes each
14:19
< JustBob>
If I had to memorize all 6524324 equations I use on a regular basis... I would probably say "fuck this" and go study business.
14:20
< Xires>
but I 'failed' the other two because it took too long
14:20
< Xires>
with a language reference, all 4 would've been done in under an hour
14:20 Thalass [thalass@Nightstar-k6vtdf.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code
14:20
< Tarinaky_>
Usually they tell you that if you don't remember a particular function to use pseudocode or otherwise indicate your thinking.
14:20
< Tarinaky_>
I like to believe they mean it.
14:22
< Xires>
nope, the goal was to finish
14:23
< Xires>
I did write down the algorithm in mind
14:23
< Tarinaky_>
Well, not all employers are equal.
14:23
< Xires>
logically, it seemed pretty perfect
14:23
< Xires>
indeed
14:23
< Xires>
I spent over an hour on the DLP test itself
14:23
< Xires>
everything worked but 1 message in over 3,000 failed because it was dropped when it should've been accepted
14:23
< Xires>
for no reason
14:25
<@simon`>
does anyone have a good example of something that is difficult to lexify without a lexer generator?
14:25
<@simon`>
I've got one example, which is scientific-notation floating point numbers.
14:26
<@simon`>
0.5E-10 could be interpreted as "0.5" followed by the variable "E", followed by the integer "-10".
14:26
< Xires>
summations?
14:27
<@simon`>
Xires, as in?
14:27
< JustBob>
Any pictoral/ideographic language?
14:27
<@simon`>
JustBob, that sounds a bit esoteric. what do you mean?
14:28
< JustBob>
Try coding in mandarin.
14:28
< JustBob>
Quietly cry.
14:28
<@simon`>
I suppose I'm mainly looking for classical language constructs that are hard to lex.
14:29
<@simon`>
Xires, do you mean something like \sum_i^n ...?
14:30
< JustBob>
I suspect that an alternative would be multi-line equations?
14:30
< Tarinaky_>
I don't think there are any classical language constructs that're hard to lex for fairly obvious reasons.
14:30
<@froztbyte>
<Tarinaky_> It's literally impossible for one person to remember even the standard libraries, in their entirety, for anything other than a toy language.
14:30
<@froztbyte>
bzzzt
14:31
<@froztbyte>
it's just not generally likely.
14:31
< Tarinaky_>
froztbyte: In their /entirety/?
14:31
< JustBob>
in the sense of, say, integral(6*(e^(2))*d+3*pi*(d^2)*sqrt(2)+(2^(1/2)),d)
14:31
< Tarinaky_>
I mean... they get updated every 5->10 years depending on the language.
14:31
<@froztbyte>
Tarinaky_: yes
14:31
<@froztbyte>
Tarinaky_: eidetic memory is a thing
14:32
< Tarinaky_>
Touche.
14:32
< Tarinaky_>
I don't think this detracts from the meaning and wisdom of the sentence though.
14:32
< Tarinaky_>
Just the pedantic literalism :p
14:33
<@simon`>
Tarinaky_, "hard" is perhaps too subjective. the two things I've found so far is: the distinction between unary and binary minus, and scientific-notation floating-point numbers.
14:33
<@froztbyte>
hahaha
14:33
< JustBob>
Especially if you use a nonstandard spacing setup.
14:33
<@froztbyte>
well, part of the reason I can pick things up so quickly is because I have a very good memory
14:33
< JustBob>
Unless you do a character by character read, you might screw an input like that up. But fuckall if I know for certain; I'm an engineer who's forced to code. :p
14:34
< Tarinaky_>
simon`: My point is that if something is hard an engineer is likely to engineer /around/ it and turn it into a simpler problem.
14:34
<@simon`>
Tarinaky_, right. I'm tempted to solve unary/binary minuses in the parser instead.
14:34
< Tarinaky_>
Have you had the rest of the channel force you to read The Dragon Book yet?
14:35
< JustBob>
Nope.
14:35
<@simon`>
Tarinaky_, I suppose what I'm interested in is: a regular language that is better described as a state-machine rather than a program.
14:35
< JustBob>
I suspect I'm going to have to bite the bullet and read it when I pick up my BS in CS, though.
14:36
< Tarinaky_>
simon`: Finite State Automata aren't Turing Complete.
14:36
<@simon`>
Tarinaky_, neither do you usually expect lexers to be.
14:36
< Tarinaky_>
And lexing is only half the battle...
14:36
<@simon`>
Tarinaky_, i.e. something with a bunch of nondeterminism in it, but which eventually unwinds.
14:38
< Tarinaky_>
Err... determinism?
14:39
< Tarinaky_>
Are you... sure you're choosing the right word there...
14:39
< JustBob>
Speaking of which. Should I do the entire degree in a year, or spread it out over a couple years?
14:39
< Tarinaky_>
P. sure a non-deterministic state machine is a Markov-Chain.
14:39
<@simon`>
ah, I understand why you would mention Turing-completeness, since I mentioned programs. what I meant was that a regular language, described by a classical NFA graph generated by a regex, vs. a manually-written program, the former tends to win (or rather: manually writing lexers vs. using a lexer generator, the latter tends to win).
14:40
<@simon`>
I didn't know they were. :)
14:41
< Tarinaky_>
I... think you're confusing me.
14:41 * Tarinaky_ double checks something... so long since he's cared about state machines.
14:42
< Tarinaky_>
By non-deterministic you just meant read-ahead didn't you?
14:42
<@simon`>
basically: I'm looking for good examples for people to wish to use lexer generators rather than writing their own functions, because those functions, representing the state-machines that lexer-generators automatically generate, tend to get kind of complicated.
14:42
<@simon`>
yeah.
14:42
< Tarinaky_>
Okay, ignore my comment about Markov-Chains.
14:54
< Xon2>
simon`, a lot of compilers/lexers these days end up being hand written rather than using a lexer generator
14:54 Xon2 is now known as XOn
14:54 XOn is now known as Xon
14:55
< Xon>
because the grammer to generate the lexer is generally horrible to debug & maintain with RL programming languages which have decades of cruff accumulated in thier design
14:57 Stalker [Z@Nightstar-484uip.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code
14:58
<@simon`>
Xon, right.
14:58
< Xon>
for example, Clang & GCC have a hand written parser
15:00 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-90d86201.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
15:08
< Xon>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericwhite/archive/2010/09/24/building-a-simple-recursive -descent-parser-completed-simple-parser.aspx
15:08
< Xon>
lol, Linq-based Recursive Descent Parser for Excel spreadsheet formulas
15:26 Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @Syloq, Xon, Typherix, @Orthia, Attilla, PinkFreu1, Stalker, @Alek, Tarinaky_, @froztbyte, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
15:27 Netsplit over, joins: RichyB, PinkFreu1, &jerith, jeroud, @Orthia, @froztbyte, Stalker, Turaiel[Offline], Tarinaky_, Typherix (+4 more)
15:30 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
16:12
<@Alek>
wow, the flood guy's a regular now.
16:44 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
16:51
<@iospace>
oh?
16:57
< Tarinaky_>
Every nick he's joined with so far has contained three characters from the set {'[',']'} and one instance of the letter a.
16:57 Thalass is now known as Thalass|sleeps
17:08 Derakon2 [chriswei@Nightstar-4k2ccr.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code
17:09 * Derakon2 eyes his microscope control code.
17:09
< Derakon2>
Why are you setting the exposure time to 1ms in the experiment runtime but not in my handmade function that exactly duplicates the experiment runtime effects.
17:09
< Derakon2>
Rasser frassin' cheeky software...
17:49
< Derakon2>
Ahh, the problem was that I was using a decimal.Decimal() object when talking to a specific library, and it was silently accepting it and misinterpreting the result.
17:50
< Derakon2>
\o/ it works now
18:04
< Derakon2>
I note that the only way I was able to figure this out is by monkey-patching the setProperty() function of said library.
18:04
< Derakon2>
Hooray for monkey-patching~
19:12 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
19:39
<@iospace>
anti-static smock + sweatshirt = hot iospace
19:48
<@Azash>
hot iospace lab action in your area
19:48
<@Azash>
Derakon2: Monkey-patching?
19:48
<@iospace>
Azash: more or less, though there was still ice on the Liquid N2 lines
19:55
<&ToxicFrog>
Azash: modifying the contents of other code at runtime, more or less - e.g. after initialization, replacing some of the methods in a library cass
20:00
< Derakon2>
In this case, I replaced a class instance's function with a different function that a) printed the arguments, and b) called the original function.
20:09
<@Azash>
Ah
20:18 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
20:24
<&jerith>
https://twitter.com/fijall/status/396309859106160640
20:24
< Derakon2>
Fantastic.
20:37 PinkFreu1 is now known as PinkFreud
20:38 mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ
20:48 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
20:49
<@Azash>
Maciej Fijalkowski ā@fijall 4h
20:49 himi [fow035@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
20:50
<@Azash>
" Failed tests usually indicate a problem with your local system setup and not within PHP itself" I like the attitude
20:50
<@froztbyte>
hey a wild fijal quote
20:50
<@Tamber>
Of course it's a problem with your local system setup. Your system has PHP on it!
20:50 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
20:53
<@Azash>
Tamber: WP
20:54
<@Tamber>
:p
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22:40
<&McMartin>
Hey, Git question. Is there an equivalent to Subversion's date tags?
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22:43
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: what's a date tag?
22:44
<&McMartin>
In Subversion, it causes the file when released to automatically contain a timestamp of its last edit at that point
22:45
<&ToxicFrog>
"released"?
22:45
<&McMartin>
That thing you do to software occasionally
22:45
< ErikMesoy>
When you let newbies use it.
22:45
<&McMartin>
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.advanced.props.special.keywords.html
22:46
<&ToxicFrog>
That looks more like "every time you commit"
22:47
<&McMartin>
I'm trying to avoid mathematician's answers here so I'm deliberately avoiding all words that Subversion and Git both define
22:47
<&McMartin>
Because they are never the same thing
22:49
<&ToxicFrog>
Hmm.
22:50
<&ToxicFrog>
Ok, so, built in, there's no support for this, and I've honestly never missed it and am annoyed when I find those tags in source files
22:50
<&ToxicFrog>
There are a bunch of ways you can implement it yourself (or install a canned version from someone else who has implemented)
22:52
<&ToxicFrog>
If you want it to happen on commit (which is what SVN appears to do), you probably want a smudge/clean filter or a pre-commit filter; git-scm.com/book/ has a worked example of the former in chapter 7.2
22:53
<&ToxicFrog>
If you want it to happen on export (i.e. when you call git-archive to generate a tarball for someone), you want the export-subst attribute
22:53
<&ToxicFrog>
Which does actually have some support for SVN date tags
22:54
<&ToxicFrog>
cf http://git-scm.com/book/ch7-2.html#Exporting-Your-Repository
22:54
<&ToxicFrog>
Finally, if you want it for some kind of automated tool, it may be easier for it to just get the data out of git directly.
22:55
<&McMartin>
We want it for content pack metadata, IIRC.
22:56
<&McMartin>
Also, SDL_mixer is worse than I remember
22:56
<&McMartin>
On the plus side, this means that it can actually play all the WaDF bonus songs
23:13 Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
23:18
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: how are the content packs generated?
23:20 * TheWatcher readsup
23:21
<@TheWatcher>
McM: my suggestion, use annotated tags on releases, and then VERS=`git tag -n1 | sort -V | tail -n1 | perl -e '$tag = <STDIN>; $tag =~ s/^.*?\s\s+(.*)$/$1/; print $tag;'`
23:21
<@TheWatcher>
$VERS will contain the last tag annotation
23:24 * TheWatcher uses that to include the release info in doxygen generated docs, eg: https://github.com/TheWatcher/webperl/blob/master/makedocs.sh
23:29
<&McMartin>
IIRC, the cvs->svn->git conversion used unannotated tags
23:29
<&McMartin>
TF: With a shell script that should really be python ;-)
23:29
<&McMartin>
And yeah, we can just do the work there, I suppose
23:34 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
23:41 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
23:42
<&McMartin>
Nice, the SDL2 API is clearly optimized for abstracting over "draw in a pixel buffer" vs. "render to texture, then scale that to fit the screen, pillarboxing as necessary"
23:42
<&McMartin>
aka The Only Way To Do That Right
--- Log closed Sat Nov 02 00:00:32 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Fri, 01 Nov 2013< code.20131031.log - code.20131102.log >

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