| --- Log opened Mon Apr 23 00:00:15 2012 |
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| 02:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ToxicFrog: today I find myself increasingly tempted to start a ttd-like game from scratch, built around opengl |
| 02:59 | | * celticminstrel is tempted to do something vaguely like that too, at some point in the future. |
| 03:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I tried many years ago, but not as opengl. Lost interest quickly, heh |
| 03:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Question is if I'd be too ambitious |
| 03:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'd use a much larger scale. Zoom in to see a train snaking through a mountain |
| 03:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Zoom out far enough and you'd get more of an abstracted network map |
| 03:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So LoD must be baked in and a different way of storing the map is needed, perhaps quadtrees or octrees |
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| 03:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And a way to control memory consumption. Don't want a game to start out at 10 megs and end up with 10 gigs |
| 03:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Although backing to the filesystem may mitigate that somewhat |
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| 06:46 | | * celticminstrel wonders what Rhamphoryncus meant by LoD? |
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| 06:54 | <@Tamber> | "The __toString method can't throw exceptions. If you try, PHP will... er, throw an exception." That's... insane. Ah, PHP. |
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| 18:04 | <&Derakon> | Hm, I got opped by Chanserv instead of Reiver. :) |
| 18:08 | | * Derakon ponders the experiment code. |
| 18:09 | <&Derakon> | Currently we conflate the exposure time of the sample (i.e. how much light shines on it) and the exposure time of the sensor (i.e. how long the camera collects data for). |
| 18:09 | <&Derakon> | And this generally works perfectly fine. |
| 18:09 | <&Derakon> | Problem is, my boss wants me to break that conflation so that we can slightly more easily correct for a source of systematic error that's on the order of less than a percent. |
| 18:10 | <&Derakon> | And he doesn't understand why it's a big deal, because we have another microscope where we were using a laser that has its own settable exposure time to do a similar thing to what he wants to do here. |
| 18:10 | <&Derakon> | (Of course, being separate, it automatically broke the conflation without actually requiring any code changes) |
| 18:14 | <&Derakon> | Naturally, the experiment code is also wired to be as tight, time-wise, as possible, since we want to run experiments very quickly. |
| 18:14 | <&Derakon> | So basically I have to break some very thoroughly-written and -tested code, for marginal-at-best benefits. >.< |
| 18:14 | < gnolam> | \o/ |
| 18:30 | < Eri> | Just write some complete garbage code with bugs everywhere. "Oh no, it's broken" |
| 18:31 | < Eri> | "damn" |
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| 19:02 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: So, PROGRESS!~ |
| 19:02 | <@TheWatcher> | (seriously though, your boss is a moron. >.<) |
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| 19:20 | <&Derakon> | ...I think I accidentally convinced the bossman to buy an expensive piece of equipment rather than rewrite the code. O_o |
| 19:20 | < Eri> | XD |
| 19:20 | < Eri> | Brilliant |
| 19:21 | <@Tamber> | Genius. |
| 19:51 | < Tarinaky> | We are not worthy! |
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| 20:51 | <&Derakon> | The problem I have with that solution is that it's not really any more convenient for the user of the scope. |
| 20:51 | <&Derakon> | Just more convenient for me, the programmer. |
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| 21:42 | < Noah> | <Noah> Odd question, does anyone know a good way to convert or extract vectors from SWF files to SVGs? |
| 21:43 | <@rms> | SVGs are just XML docs. |
| 21:43 | < Noah> | Also, jerith, does your depixel implementation in the topic work well on sprites of larger sizes? |
| 21:44 | < Vornucopia> | So if you can get the vectors out of an SWF, it's pretty trivial to get them into an svg. |
| 21:44 | < Vornucopia> | depixel works well on pixelly things; it would not work well on the Mona Lisa. |
| 21:44 | < Vornucopia> | This is saying nothing regarding performance, by the way. |
| 21:44 | < Noah> | Is it slow as molasses? |
| 21:45 | < Vornucopia> | I know that jerith's isn't exactly optimized. I don't know the performance profile, but it's by no means realtime. |
| 21:45 | < Vornucopia> | Even if it were optimized it wouldn't be realtime. |
| 21:46 | < Noah> | Oh no, I don't need real time |
| 21:46 | < Vornucopia> | How big is the image you're talking about? |
| 21:46 | < Noah> | Hell, I'm used to dealing with fractal art, so I've done render times in hours. |
| 21:46 | < Noah> | Let me check |
| 21:47 | < Vornucopia> | Okay so if that's your benchmark there's no issue |
| 21:48 | < Noah> | Ranging from 64^2 to 128^2. |
| 21:48 | <&jerith> | Noah: My depixeling is only about half-implemented. |
| 21:48 | <&jerith> | Enough for some demos, but the final smoothing step is very wonky. |
| 21:49 | <&jerith> | And the whole lot takes about 30s to run on a 100 pixel (or thereabouts) image. |
| 21:49 | < Noah> | Hmm, is there a complete implementation available? |
| 21:49 | < Vornucopia> | Somewhere probably. I haven't met it yet. |
| 21:49 | < Noah> | I see. |
| 21:49 | <&jerith> | I know of exactly one, and the authors of the paper haven't published it. |
| 21:50 | <&jerith> | I'll probably be playing with it some more this weekend. |
| 21:50 | < Noah> | I've been playing with potrace in Inkscape, but it can be wonky even on higher res images, I haven't bothered trying it on anything smaller than like 500px |
| 21:50 | < Vornucopia> | I should really sneak into jerith's code and see if I can't improve it. |
| 21:51 | <&jerith> | Oh, it's a 140px image. |
| 21:51 | <&jerith> | 10x14. |
| 21:52 | <&jerith> | Vornucopia: Do you have an array-of-scalars class that you can perform numerical operations on? |
| 21:53 | < Vornucopia> | Not off the top. ...dangit, out of time. describe what precisely you need and I'll see what I can do. |
| 21:53 | <&jerith> | numpy |
| 21:53 | < Vornucopia> | heh. |
| 21:53 | <&jerith> | numpy's ndarray is perfect, except it does a lot more than I need. |
| 21:54 | <&Derakon> | numpy is very handy. |
| 21:54 | <&jerith> | And it means pulling in numpy, which means compiling C and FORTRAN. |
| 21:54 | <&jerith> | Derakon: numpy's very handy indeed. |
| 21:54 | <&jerith> | Except the collateral damage is a bit high for this project. |
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| 21:54 | <&Derakon> | For a moment there I read "compiling C and FORTRAN" as "compiling the C and FORTRAN compilers". |
| 21:55 | <&jerith> | (If it had a numeric integrator, it might be worth it. But I don't really want to pull in scipy as well.) |
| 21:55 | <&Derakon> | Why are you trying to keep dependencies down? Just because you can't be bothered with installing them? |
| 21:56 | <&jerith> | Derakon: I'm mostly trying to keep it pure python. |
| 21:56 | <&jerith> | As soon as you need to compile stuff, you run into problems packaging and distributing. |
| 21:56 | <&jerith> | Also, numpy and pypy are still a bit problematic. |
| 21:56 | <&Derakon> | Ah, distribution problems. |
| 21:57 | <&jerith> | fijal's working on it, but I think there are still extra hoops to jump through. |
| 21:57 | <&Derakon> | Distribution problems are the same reason Pyrel so far only has wxPython as a dependency. |
| 21:57 | <&jerith> | And pypy's JIT buys me a lot more than numpy does, since I'm just using it to give me a glorified point class. |
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| 22:28 | < RichyB> | jerith, if you're willing to require pypy for performance, you'll find that array.array("d") will actually have pretty much the performance you'd hope for. |
| 22:29 | < RichyB> | *but only in PyPy. As soon as you try to run code that heavily uses the "array" module in CPython, it'll go dog-slow - slower than basic Python lists, when I've tried benching it before. |
| 22:29 | <&jerith> | RichyB: I'm not going to get performance out of the arrays. |
| 22:30 | <&jerith> | I just want to be able to perform arithmetic on mixtures of scalars and (x, y) coords. |
| 22:32 | <&jerith> | But I think numpy's broadcast magic is faster than anything I'm likely to be able to implement in my own coord class. |
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| 23:27 | <@Tamber> | <nedbat> Some people, when confronted with a problem, think, "I know, I'll use threads," and then two they hav erpoblesms. |
| 23:28 | < gnolam> | Heh |
| 23:32 | <&McMartin> | https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0A9BrxcVMFU/T5W7AyTcxZI/AAAAAAAAGNc/zpuKuRP6S W0/s968/5473948789_b93713323f_b.jpg |
| 23:33 | < Namegduf> | Is that baby wearing Google-brand clothing? |
| 23:33 | <&McMartin> | That baby's mom is apparently a crypto person at Google. |
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| 23:49 | | * Derakon tries to figure out how to get GMail to not use transparency. |
| 23:49 | <&Derakon> | That is, the listing of emails is on this semitransparent thing so you can see their pretty background, and so you can't read any of the text without having to squint. |
| 23:50 | <&Derakon> | This turns out to be practically impossible to search for. |
| 23:52 | < Namegduf> | Pretty background? |
| 23:52 | < Namegduf> | It... looks like black on a very light grey to me. |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | Like, photos of mountains and stuff. |
| 23:52 | < Namegduf> | Weird. |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | You have a different theme selected then. |
| 23:52 | < Namegduf> | Why would I pick a terrible theme? |
| 23:52 | < Namegduf> | I never changed mine from default. |
| 23:53 | <&Derakon> | The themes do have some rather nice photography. |
| 23:53 | <&Derakon> | They just decided with the terrible new UI that they should also be semitransparent. |
| 23:53 | <&Derakon> | And they finally recently forced me to start using the terrible new UI. |
| 23:54 | < gnolam> | I switched mine to "dark", which seems to be the only theme with decent contrast. :P |
| 23:54 | < Namegduf> | Oooh, I like dark. |
| 23:54 | < Namegduf> | Don't like the photos. |
| 23:54 | < Namegduf> | They're eyepainful. |
| 23:54 | < Namegduf> | But I find most imagey themes in most things that way. |
| 23:55 | <&Derakon> | I'm guessing your desktop is a single solid color? |
| 23:55 | < Namegduf> | Tiling WM. |
| 23:55 | < Namegduf> | My desktop is not visible except for under 100ms on boot. |
| 23:55 | < Namegduf> | it never has UI elements directly layered on it anyway, though. |
| 23:55 | < Namegduf> | (Since even before I used a tiling WM I never used desktop shortcuts) |
| 23:57 | < Namegduf> | I've been okay with them in the past to some degree but they always required a lot of care to the photo selection for readability. |
| 23:57 | < Namegduf> | And since Windows got quick links and the improved start menu I don't really use them there, either. |
| --- Log closed Tue Apr 24 00:00:32 2012 |