| --- Log opened Sun Jul 10 00:00:01 2011 |
| 00:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 01:04 | < Vornicus> | Tarinaky: well it's not the coordinates themselves; I do need a coordinate-shaped thing. |
| 01:06 | < Tarinaky> | Hang on. Let me find some paper. |
| 01:06 | < Tarinaky> | By find some paper I mean: install inkscape. |
| 01:07 | < Tarinaky> | Note to self: some day I need to create a python script for autoinstalling software on windows >.> |
| 01:10 | < Tarinaky> | Ah ffs |
| 01:10 | < Tarinaky> | The download was interrupted by a dropped connection and I can't figure out how to get Chrome to either resume or restart the download. |
| 01:10 | < Vornicus> | The coordinates though aren't really the issue. |
| 01:10 | < Vornicus> | The issue is that I have coordinates and connectivity |
| 01:10 | < Vornicus> | And having both violates DRY very solidly. |
| 01:11 | < Tarinaky> | DRY? |
| 01:11 | < Vornicus> | Don't Repeat Yourself |
| 01:12 | < Vornicus> | ALl information should have exactly one authoritative representation in the system; this includes data information can generate from other pieces. |
| 01:12 | < Tarinaky> | Well. The most sensible thing I can think o- Oh FFS FUCKING POPING UP WINDOWS |
| 01:13 | < Tarinaky> | For each vertex you a add a reference to each associated tile. |
| 01:13 | < Tarinaky> | GAH I@VE LOST MY CONNECTION AGAIN?! |
| 01:13 | < Vornicus> | Right right, exept that |
| 01:13 | < Tarinaky> | klmklmmk l |
| 01:14 | < Tarinaky> | Back. |
| 01:14 | < Tarinaky> | Except what? |
| 01:14 | < Vornicus> | I can generate connectivity from coordinates, though it can be hairy to do so. |
| 01:15 | < Vornicus> | It is this hairiness that is giving me grump. |
| 01:16 | < Tarinaky> | I don't know exactly what you're trying to do but I think making vertexes the children of the tile objects might be the sensible way of doing it. |
| 01:16 | < Tarinaky> | In a Many:Many relationship. |
| 01:16 | < Vornicus> | Problem is that each vertex is actually |
| 01:16 | < Vornicus> | gneh. |
| 01:17 | < Tarinaky> | That way getting the vertexes of a tile is as straight forward as possible. |
| 01:17 | < Tarinaky> | The only thing I can think of is it make garbage collection hairy. |
| 01:17 | < Tarinaky> | *makes |
| 01:17 | < Vornicus> | Well, garbage collection would happen as entire boards. |
| 01:18 | < Tarinaky> | Aye. Well... If it's python it's a nonissue. |
| 01:19 | < Vornicus> | This would be the db side. |
| 01:19 | < Tarinaky> | Well I have no idea then >.> |
| 01:19 | < Vornicus> | I think you've gotten yourself lost in the shallows here, probably because i haven't explained myself well. |
| 01:20 | < Tarinaky> | I mean I know nothing about databases. |
| 01:20 | < Vornicus> | On the one hand: I could build the board from edges and corners and tiles and connectivity and have those reference each other. |
| 01:20 | < Vornicus> | However, this makes it very difficult to build the coordinate system, and it's very easy to build a non-euclidean system. |
| 01:21 | < Vornicus> | On the other hand: I could build the board from coordinates and have few if any direct references. |
| 01:21 | < Vornicus> | However, this, having no direct references, makes querying the board difficult. |
| 01:21 | < Tarinaky> | Sure. But the trouble is you're going to end up using some complicated maths to reference what you want. |
| 01:22 | < Tarinaky> | So a direct reference ends up being a more straight forward way of accessing the data you actually care about. |
| 01:22 | < Tarinaky> | In the context you care about it in. |
| 01:22 | < Tarinaky> | And it'll probably be faster. |
| 01:23 | < Tarinaky> | As far as I'm aware references are cheap in any language. |
| 01:24 | < Vornicus> | It's not that references are cheap |
| 01:24 | < Vornicus> | It's that references and coordinates together are redundant. |
| 01:26 | < Tarinaky> | And that's bad? |
| 01:27 | < Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 01:32 | < Tarinaky> | I... don't understand. |
| 01:32 | < Tarinaky> | If you don't need coordinates why have them? |
| 01:36 | < Vornicus> | Because I do, in at least some senses, need coordinates. |
| 01:36 | < Vornicus> | Like I said - it's very hard to regenerate the coordinates from the connectivity. |
| 01:38 | < Vornicus> | And the coordinates are needed for display. |
| 01:39 | < Tarinaky> | So they aren't redundant. |
| 01:48 | < Vornicus> | Ng. |
| 01:50 | < Tarinaky> | I'll stop getting in your way and being unhelpful >.> |
| 01:51 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:56 | < Vornicus> | Actually I think you're being very helpful |
| 01:56 | < Vornicus> | Because you're making me think I'm thinking too hard. |
| 01:57 | < Vornicus> | This is unsurprisingly something I do too often. |
| 02:01 | < Tarinaky> | Heh. |
| 02:13 | < Tarinaky> | Well. I'm half distracted as I'm trying to learn blender. |
| 02:15 | < Tarinaky> | I didn't know keyboards had "Ecscape" keys these days >.> |
| 02:18 | < gnolam> | ... what |
| 02:20 | < Namegduf> | That's nothing. |
| 02:20 | < Namegduf> | I found out just the other day that even the newest keyboards still have an enter key. |
| 02:20 | < Namegduf> | I thought they got rid of them ages ago. |
| 02:24 | < Tarinaky> | Namegduf: ? |
| 02:24 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: Annoying American person on a video can't say "Escape" properly. |
| 02:25 | < Tarinaky> | And I'm a terrible person who mocks people for these kinds of things :p |
| 02:25 | < Namegduf> | Oh, the typo. |
| 02:25 | < Namegduf> | It's okay, I was mocking your mockery. |
| 02:30 | < Vornicus> | Ok so. |
| 02:30 | < Vornicus> | Final answer: fuck it, coordinates go in there, as "display only" sort of thing. |
| 02:31 | < Vornicus> | And then I have the connections in there too, all three directions. |
| 02:31 | < Vornicus> | And also harbor-site because those are kind of important too. |
| 02:39 | < gnolam> | Tarinaky: something that hasn't been posted in channel then? |
| 02:40 | < gnolam> | (Doesn't seem that way from my skimming of the backscroll at least) |
| 02:47 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: Sorry, yes. Nothing from this channel. |
| 02:49 | < kwsn> | remember kids |
| 02:49 | < kwsn> | feed your coder regularly |
| 02:49 | < kwsn> | :D |
| 02:49 | < gnolam> | That usually takes care of itself. |
| 02:49 | < kwsn> | yes |
| 02:50 | < kwsn> | but last week i was foaming at the mouth nuts at getting this code to work |
| 03:08 | < Tarinaky> | Apply equal parts water and caffiene, carefully point at the technical issue and stand well clear. |
| 03:09 | < Tarinaky> | If symptoms do not resolve add fresh water and caffiene before applying again. |
| 03:09 | < Tarinaky> | *symptoms persist |
| 03:11 | < gnolam> | Not *caffeine? |
| 03:12 | | * kwsn decapitates gnolam |
| 03:12 | < gnolam> | Nothing important in that head anyway. |
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| 03:40 | < kwsn> | oh vmiperator |
| 03:40 | < kwsn> | how i love thee |
| 03:40 | < kwsn> | *vimperator |
| 04:08 | < McMartin> | unclean |
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| 04:53 | < kwsn> | McMartin: don't like vim? |
| 05:03 | < kwsn> | D< |
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| 06:24 | < McMartin> | kwsn: No, and even if I did, I wouldn't want it as my web browsesr. |
| 06:25 | < McMartin> | I don't even use emacs for my web browser! Why would I want to use Vim for it? |
| 06:25 | < kwsn> | it's not vim |
| 06:25 | < kwsn> | it's firefox |
| 06:25 | < kwsn> | it's using vim like commands |
| 06:25 | < kwsn> | for example |
| 06:25 | < McMartin> | I know what vimperator is. |
| 06:25 | < kwsn> | :P |
| 06:25 | < McMartin> | However, my point stands. |
| 06:25 | < kwsn> | you're unclean D: |
| 06:26 | < kwsn> | it's nice though when you don't relly hve a mouse |
| 06:26 | < McMartin> | All I have to say is that Vimperator proves that vi people bitching about emacs are in fact performing an enormous feat of projection. |
| 06:26 | < kwsn> | oh? |
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| 06:29 | < McMartin> | Well. |
| 06:30 | < McMartin> | Because while the gag is that emacs is a great OS and it's too bad it has no text editor, the vi folks are retrofitting vi into their OS so it can be their OS. |
| 06:31 | < Derakon> | Some of the vi folks. ?.? |
| 06:31 | < Derakon> | Most people have the sense to leave well enough alone. |
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| 07:01 | | * Vornicus eyes his database design, gets splodeyhead. |
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| 07:23 | < Tarinaky> | Derakon[AFK]: There's plugins for Firefox to make it respond to vim keys. |
| 07:23 | < Tarinaky> | Err *vi keys |
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| 22:59 | | * Derakon mutters at his Apache, which doesn't want him to execute CGI scripts. |
| 22:59 | < kwsn> | heh |
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| 23:54 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| --- Log closed Mon Jul 11 00:00:16 2011 |