| --- Log opened Sat May 23 00:00:10 2009 |
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| 04:52 | | * Vornicus-Latens discovers something Useful about his keyboard. |
| 04:52 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | tapping capslock doesn't turn it on. |
| 04:53 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | You have to press it for a significant amount of time for it to take. |
| 05:39 | <@GeekSoldier> | That is interesting and quite potentially infuriating. |
| 05:41 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I like it. |
| 05:41 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | (I'm talking somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 second to get it to take.) |
| 05:42 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | (closer to 1/4) |
| 05:48 | <@GeekSoldier> | oh, so enough to prevent ACCIDENTAL YELLING, but not enough to really inconvenience. |
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| 06:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 3d tile maps are fun! And brain melty x_x |
| 06:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's sorta funny how few options you really have |
| 06:21 | <@GeekSoldier> | heh. |
| 06:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've been looking at the options for 2d and 3d mappings, for detailing D&D worlds and what freeciv or similar games might use |
| 06:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For 2d you have either square tiles or triangular/hexagonal tiles, or randomly shaped tiles, or make them so small they don't matter (effectively arbitrary positioning) |
| 06:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For 3d you drop the square option and change triangular/hexagonal into an extended form of a truncated icosahedron |
| 06:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (you could also use an extended dodecahedron, only slightly different, but that doesn't nicely map quite as nicely into triangles) |
| 06:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So your tiled choices are triangles, clumps of triangles (hexagons and pentagons), or random |
| 06:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Random would be interesting for a game, but not practical for hand mapping |
| 06:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And for hand mapping you're probably going to subdivide arbitrarily anyway, so you don't need clumping.. so the best option is triangles |
| 06:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I wonder how much distortion there is |
| 06:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Some lines match longitude, but nothing matches latitude |
| 07:02 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | 3d you get Cubes or one of the other spacefillers. |
| 07:05 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Rhombic Dodecahedra, Truncated Octahedra, and Rhombo-Hexagonal Dodecahedra all space-fill without the rule difficulties of cubes: they have four around a vertex, where cubes have eight. |
| 07:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | space-fill? |
| 07:07 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | A space-filling polyedron is a polyhedron that can tile to fill space. |
| 07:08 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | The same way that triangles, squares, and hexagons can each tile to fill the plane. |
| 07:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | huh |
| 07:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh wait, that's filling the volume, not the surface of the sphere |
| 07:09 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Oh. |
| 07:09 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | You're looking to tile a sphere? |
| 07:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 07:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Mapping of a D&D world or for games like freeciv |
| 07:09 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | In that case you're kind of stuck for options; I use a geodesation of the icosahedron and break that up into hexagons (and 12 pentagons) |
| 07:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
| 07:10 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I have some ancient C++ code that does this, but I never got around to making that think in tiles. |
| 07:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which is essentially just clumped triangles |
| 07:11 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Hexagons are really your best bet here mainly because unlike squares and triangles you never get more than three touching at a corner, so you don't get crazy rules exceptions. |
| 07:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It depends on what you're doing with them |
| 07:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For rendering, triangles seem much easier to understand |
| 07:12 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I agree there; the geodesation I did made triangles first. |
| 07:13 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | But then I needed to bond triangles into hexagons to make a sensible rules thingy. |
| 07:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For a computer coordinate system, I'm thinking bands of aligned hexagons (and pentagons) is simplest. Just do row after row |
| 07:14 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | It's about the right way to do it. |
| 07:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Given such a coordinate system, I don't think it'd be *too* hard to translate into triangles on the fly, or to find neighbouring hexagons(/pentagons) |
| 07:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For D&D, you actually want to avoid relying on coordinates and straight lines. Drawing latitude/longitude lines would only be confusing |
| 07:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hrm. I don't suppose measuring the flat distance from the north pole is accurate for the norther 5 segments? That would be too convenient >.> |
| 07:22 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | It would be! |
| 07:22 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Well, it's approximately that. |
| 07:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 07:23 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | You can actually kind of keep going; along the middle it kind of zig-zags, and then at the bottom it goes back to being perfect again. |
| 07:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 07:25 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | actually I don't know how zig-zaggy it gets; iirc the zig-zagging is only in the actual latitude. |
| 07:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | If you go straight down a pole to the center of the edge of a segment, I wonder how much that's different between flat and 3d |
| 07:27 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Part of the trick of rendering it is getting the right values for the locations; if you just project a flat geodesation you'll get a much smaller pole tile than center tile. |
| 07:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ie, if the edge of each segment is 1 unit long, then the straight line there is 0.8660254 units |
| 07:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | straight line when flat |
| 07:29 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | If you instead intersect great circles and average the three locations you get (you need three sets of circles for each large face) you'll end up with correctly-sized tiles but they're a bit funny-shaped in some places. |
| 07:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Huh, I thought you just had to project their altitude, not their latitude/longitude |
| 07:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hrm. Do you have it backwards? Larger poles (due to greater gradient of the altitude projection) and smaller center tiles? |
| 07:32 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | No, the poles are smaller because the distance you're projecting them is less. |
| 07:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ooh right, I'm thinking an orthogonal projection |
| 07:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (weee big words today) |
| 07:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I wonder, is there a way to bypass this by doing a recursive subdivision? |
| 07:34 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | There may, but then you don't get the same size flexibility. |
| 07:34 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Might not match hexagon/pentagon multiples either |
| 07:34 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | ...ah, heh, that is true! You need a multiple of 3, and recursive subdivision only really gets you powers of 2. |
| 07:35 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 07:35 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | (you could do powers of 3 instead but that once again involves finding in-face points) |
| 07:36 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 07:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Curses, foiled again :) |
| 07:37 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Though there you can just get a centroid or something. |
| 07:38 | | * Rhamphoryncus googles.. eyes gloss over |
| 07:38 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | There are a few interesting centers of a triangle; the centroid is the most important, it's the point that's the same distance from all three edges. |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahhh |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm.. maybe start with a d4 and recursively subdivide that.. |
| 07:40 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | gets you three meeting at a corner. |
| 07:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which is undesirable but I'm still willing to explore it |
| 07:41 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | What language are you working in? |
| 07:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm not :) |
| 07:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | This is all just brainstorming for kicks |
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| 07:42 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Heh |
| 07:42 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | YOu're a Python guy, right? |
| 07:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
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| 07:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Bluh. Did I miss much? |
| 07:52 | | * Rhamphoryncus suddenly wants a d16 |
| 07:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | http://www.chessex.com/Dice/Specialty%20Dice/16_sided.htm |
| 07:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | no pic |
| 07:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So far I'm only finding spindles |
| 07:58 | <@AnnoDomini> | So far as I know, there isn't a platonic 16-sided solid. |
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| 07:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | pics of the lower chapel of anubis, someone in a pluto costume, and porn. The internet has delivered! |
| 08:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It makes perfect sense in my mind ;) |
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| 08:00 | <@Vornicus> | I can try to rewrite my code for this in something a little less insane than the wild 2-years-experience C++ that I've got now, if you'd like. |
| 08:00 | | * Vornicus dunno if you got that one. |
| 08:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Naw, I've got no plans for coding atm |
| 08:01 | <@Vornicus> | Heh |
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| 08:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The lack of it is kind of odd |
| 08:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The most likely answer is that I'm mis-visualizing it, and it doesn't work |
| 08:10 | <@Vornicus> | Also, I misstated the center I mentioned. |
| 08:11 | | * Rhamphoryncus wonders what would be easier, learning blender, or writing a python opengl script |
| 08:11 | <@McMartin> | Look into pyglet. |
| 08:12 | <@Vornicus> | The Centroid is the intersection of the three medians: go from one corner to the midpoint of the opposite edge. Or, alternatively, it is the intersection of the three long lines between edge trisectors. |
| 08:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Vornicus: aww, but your explanation sounded so simple ;) |
| 08:12 | <@Vornicus> | The Incenter is the point that is the same distance from all three sides. |
| 08:13 | <@Vornicus> | The centroid though is the one you want for the recursive job; it has the advantage that you're already calculating the edge trisectors. |
| 08:15 | <@Vornicus> | (there are literally thousands of important points involving triangles; there is a list out there called the Encyclopedia of Triangle Centers. it lists, as of right now, 3,514 points; the first five are the only ones I've ever seen actually used.) |
| 08:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 08:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | atm I'm ignoring the hex aspects, and just using triangles, so it's powers of 2 |
| 08:18 | <@Vornicus> | the others are the Circumcenter (point that's the same distance from all three corners), the Orthocenter (the intersection of lines through each corner perpendicular to the opposite side) and the Nine-Point Center (the same distance from: the midpoints of all three lines, the base points of all three altitudes, and the midpoint of all three lines from the corners to the orthocenters) |
| 08:19 | <@Vornicus> | Oh, and there are three "Excenters" which are like the Incenter except that each deals with one actual edge and two extended edges, and those are all outside the circle. |
| 08:21 | <@Vornicus> | (the nine-point circle is really, really awesome.) |
| 08:22 | <@Vornicus> | And of those, four -- the incenter and excenters aren't -- are on the same lne. |
| 08:26 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 08:27 | <@Vornicus> | And I know way more geometry than I ever actually use. |
| 08:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Woo, I got pyglet to draw a triangle |
| 08:41 | <@Vornicus> | Woo |
| 08:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Indexing is nifty |
| 08:44 | <@Vornicus> | Yes, it is. |
| 08:46 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 08:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Interesting, no depth |
| 08:50 | <@Vornicus> | no depth? |
| 08:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Setting the z causes the triangle to disappear |
| 08:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | both positive and negative |
| 08:50 | <@Vornicus> | Have you set the camera up? |
| 08:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Nope |
| 08:50 | <@Vornicus> | You need to do that. |
| 08:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Obviously :) |
| 08:51 | <@Vornicus> | 2 dimensional stuff just gets pasted on; 3d needs a camera, and the default camera is not exactly sensible. |
| 08:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | "Check the obvious possibilities. Make sure your system is plugged in." |
| 08:57 | <@Vornicus> | Also I think your best bet for this job is wireframe. |
| 08:57 | <@Vornicus> | now, bed. |
| 09:02 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Well, so far I'd say pyglet's docs are pretty poor |
| 09:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | wireframes would be nice if I had a clue how |
| 09:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Sadly, I'd probably have an easier time taking warzone and ripping pieces out until just what I wanted was left |
| 10:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Is it just me, or are the diagrams (1/3rd down) broken here? http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Tetrahedron.html |
| 10:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The side view is missing half, and you can't tell how it's oriented |
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| 10:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Maybe that's their conventions, dunno, but it's pretty hard to grasp |
| 10:47 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 3 out of 4 vertices down, probably >.> |
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| 14:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:56 | | * gnolam WTFs-. |
| 14:59 | <@AnnoDomini> | WTFs-? |
| 15:15 | <@gnolam> | Things that should be working didn't. |
| 15:15 | <@gnolam> | Apparently, I ran out of stack. |
| 15:15 | | * AnnoDomini splits his stack and shares with gnolam. |
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| 17:00 | <@Consul> | Well, that eliminates the Nvidia prop. driver as the issue. |
| 17:01 | <@Consul> | It also eliminates Flash, I think, as this time, it happened with Totem playing back a long mp3. |
| 17:02 | <@Consul> | It has to be the sound card. Question is, is it a driver issue or a hardware issue? |
| 17:04 | <@Consul> | I've never had a lockup when sound wasn't playing. |
| 17:04 | <@Consul> | But that means little. I usually always have something playing. |
| 17:14 | <@Consul> | So, time to go for a week or so without playing anything, see if another one happens. |
| 17:15 | <@Consul> | I can take in my daily dose of podcasts on the laptop. |
| 17:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 19:12 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/7861878@N06/3556592941/ <--- for Rhamphoryncus, who appears to not be here. |
| 19:13 | <@Derakon> | Neat. |
| 19:13 | <@Derakon> | What did you use to make that? |
| 19:14 | <@Derakon> | And what does "51 points to a side" mean? |
| 19:15 | <@Vornicus> | Ancient C++, and POV-Ray. |
| 19:16 | <@Vornicus> | and it means that if you count from vertex to vertex of the icosahedron, you get 51 points. |
| 19:16 | <@Derakon> | Before you loop around to where you started? |
| 19:16 | <@Vornicus> | This image is no less than five years old. |
| 19:16 | <@Vornicus> | Der: before you get to the other vertex. |
| 19:16 | <@Derakon> | So, a semiperimeter. |
| 19:17 | <@Vornicus> | Uh. |
| 19:17 | <@Vornicus> | An edge length. |
| 19:18 | <@Derakon> | Oh, wait, I see. You're subdividing each edge of the icosahedron with hexagons |
| 19:18 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. Well, technically triangles |
| 19:18 | <@Derakon> | Same diff. |
| 19:18 | <@Vornicus> | And then glomming the triangles into hexagons. |
| 19:19 | <@Derakon> | Right. |
| 19:39 | | * AnnoDomini fiddles with JSF, trying to establish a base functionality that will get a passing grade out of this crap. |
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| 20:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | Hrm. How do I add thirty days to a Date instance? |
| 20:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | This is Java. |
| 20:53 | <@AnnoDomini> | I think I'm supposed to use Calendar somehow, but I don't understand how. |
| 20:54 | <@Derakon> | This is the kind of thing that Google should have plenty of answers for. |
| 20:54 | <@Derakon> | I don't remember the exact syntax offhand, but every language I know of has hundreds of forum posters saying "How do I add dates?" :) |
| 20:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
| 20:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm looking at the API now. |
| 21:06 | <@McMartin> | I need to eat something, but I can look at it in a bit if you're still stuck then. |
| 21:09 | <@AnnoDomini> | I /think/ I've figured out how to add days using Calendar, but now I have to convert that to Date, since the persistence class uses Date. |
| 21:17 | <@McMartin> | Calendar.getTime() |
| 21:17 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yeah, got that. |
| 21:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | Rhamphoryncus: <Vornicus> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7861878@N06/3556592941/ <--- for Rhamphoryncus, who appears to not be here. |
| 21:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | :) |
| 21:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I only just got pyglet to render colours |
| 21:33 | <@Vornicus> | Hey, it is Rham |
| 21:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's a me! |
| 21:36 | <@AnnoDomini> | Right. Got the borrowings to happen, given a hardcoded userId. Now to add actual user recognition. |
| 21:37 | <@Vornicus> | Rham: now you need lights, normals, and textures. |
| 21:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | x_x |
| 21:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I was actually thinking rotation |
| 21:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Unfortunately, pyglet's APIs don't match the normal C APIs.. despite still being ugly nasty things full of global state |
| 21:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | ... |
| 21:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | No wonder I can't check out a book. I'm not logged in. |
| 21:50 | | * AnnoDomini logs in as the God-Emperor of Mankind. |
| 21:51 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yay! |
| 22:03 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 22:04 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #code |
| 22:05 | | mode/#code [+o Consul] by ChanServ |
| 22:10 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 22:14 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #code |
| 22:14 | | mode/#code [+o Consul] by ChanServ |
| 22:14 | <@Consul> | That wasn't a lock-up. I'm just trying to sort some wireless issues. |
| 22:14 | <@Consul> | :-) |
| 22:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Aha, arrow keys for rotation! |
| 22:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And it appears to not be using the depth buffer, hehe |
| 22:21 | <@Consul> | Wow, this is weird. |
| 22:22 | <@Consul> | I yanked the Echo sound card, went back to internal sound, and now Youtube doesn't work (either video works or audio does, but not both), but BitGravity streams work just fine. |
| 22:22 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 22:27 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #code |
| 22:27 | | mode/#code [+o Consul] by ChanServ |
| 22:27 | <@Consul> | *sigh* |
| 22:27 | <@Consul> | That was X crashing and restarting itself. |
| 22:27 | <@Consul> | New behavior, but still, it's a crash. |
| 22:28 | <@Consul> | I think this machine is going to meet my sledgehammer before too long. |
| 22:28 | <@Consul> | Time to find some work, I guess. |
| 22:29 | <@Consul> | So I can build a new machine. |
| 22:32 | <@Consul> | Of course, that work's going to be a local convenience store or something, but hey, money's money. |
| 22:47 | <@TheWatcher> | Anyone know of a decent database of XSS attack |
| 22:47 | <@TheWatcher> | +s? |
| 22:47 | <@MyCatVerbs> | CERT might have some of the more high-profile ones on hand, perhaps? |
| 22:53 | <@McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samy_(XSS) is probably the most famous one. |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | Citations include links to more general articles, it looks like. |
| 22:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Thanks McM, I never thought to look there >>< |
| 22:56 | <@McMartin> | If I remembered the name of the XSS attack that actually installs a keylogger in an iframe as part of the actual target site, I'd have used that one. |
| 22:58 | <@McMartin> | And by "links to more general articles" I meant "Off of Wikipedia" |
| 23:03 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29420.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: There is no Dana, only Zuul.] |
| 23:25 | | * gnolam is suddenly tempted to make some sort of black powder-era game. |
| 23:25 | <@gnolam> | Darned particle system. It worked too well! |
| 23:44 | <@Consul> | I'm gonna head off and let the memory test run for this evening and all night. |
| 23:44 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-3249.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 23:55 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| --- Log closed Sun May 24 00:00:08 2009 |