| --- Log opened Wed Feb 18 00:00:19 2009 |
| 00:32 | | * Derakon starts uploading beta5. |
| 00:33 | <@Derakon> | http://www.aegis-soft.com/games/fusillade/download/fusillade-beta5-osx.tgz |
| 00:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
| 00:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:51 | <@Derakon> | http://www.aegis-soft.com/games/fusillade/download/fusillade-beta5-win.zip |
| 00:52 | <@Derakon> | See http://www.aegis-soft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2 for change details. |
| 00:52 | | * TheWatcher[zZzZ] starts that dowloading so he can try it tomorrow |
| 00:52 | <@Derakon> | Not bad for a four-day turnaround time, if I do say so myself. |
| 01:00 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 01:30 | < simontwo> | what's up with the emo server notices? |
| 02:20 | | * Derakon eyes his code. |
| 02:20 | <@Derakon> | I'm working on setting up the codebase for Selene, by copying wholesale from the codebase for Fusillade (codename: BulletML). |
| 02:21 | <@Derakon> | In Fusillade, I had a main script bulletml.py, which among other things acted as a global access point for various managers (e.g. for accessing config values, getting the Pygame screen surface, etc.). I set these up by doing "bulletml.foo = bar" in initialization. |
| 02:22 | <@Derakon> | When I try to do "selene.foo = bar" in selene.py, I get the error "global name 'selene' is not defined" |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | Is . in your PYTHONPATH? |
| 02:23 | <@Derakon> | I thought that simply having a file named "foo.py" would create, in that file, the object "foo" as the module? |
| 02:23 | <@Derakon> | I'm using the same Python for both of them. |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | Also, is there a module-local named "selene"? |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | Becuase then it would be assigning to selene.selene.foo, not selene.foo |
| 02:23 | <@Derakon> | Define "module local"? |
| 02:24 | <@Derakon> | Local variable in the module? |
| 02:24 | <@McMartin> | Like, is there a variable named "selene" inside selene.py |
| 02:24 | <@Derakon> | No. |
| 02:24 | <@Derakon> | Just like there isn't in bulletml.py. |
| 02:24 | <@Derakon> | As a simple repro, I made foo.py, which has one line: "foo.bar = 1". That fails in the same manner. |
| 02:25 | <@Derakon> | I remember having some issues with this when I did the original BulletML refactor. |
| 02:25 | <@Derakon> | I just wish I could remember how I fixed it... |
| 02:27 | <@Derakon> | Wouldn't having a module local named "selene" break access, not assignment? |
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| 02:47 | <@Derakon> | Ah hah. Figured it out. |
| 02:48 | <@Derakon> | The code that assigns to selene was being run before the selene module was finished loading. |
| 02:48 | <@Derakon> | Slapping "import selene" at the top of selene.py fixes this, but augh. ;.; |
| 03:28 | < Serah> | ?? |
| 03:29 | < Serah> | Why is it called Selene? |
| 03:29 | <@Derakon> | Because the game it's based on is called Lunatic Fringe. |
| 03:30 | <@Derakon> | Selene is the project name. |
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| 04:10 | | * McMartin trades vicious strikes with C++ |
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| 04:12 | <@McMartin> | Some destructor is being called twice for some reason. >_< |
| 04:17 | <@Derakon> | Yay automatic garbage collection. |
| 04:18 | <@McMartin> | THis is in the collector's implementation, for added fun. |
| 04:18 | <@McMartin> | AUTOMATIC MYSTERIOUS USE AFTER FREE |
| 04:26 | <@McMartin> | OK, that's probably a bug in MSVC++. |
| 04:26 | <@McMartin> | It better be. |
| 04:27 | <@McMartin> | But I can't be sure, because it would be just like C++ to have incorrect behavior be mandated by one of its constructs. =P |
| 04:27 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 04:27 | <@McMartin> | (This being the foo::foo() try : bar(x), baz(y) { ... } construct) |
| 04:31 | | * Vornicus wonders why C++ is so fucked up about a lot of things. |
| 04:31 | <@Derakon> | Because it's an extension on a nearly forty-year-old language. |
| 04:32 | <@McMartin> | No, because said nearly-forty-year-old language is still going strong. |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | It's fucked up because by the time it got standardized, large numbers of powerful business interests relied on all compilers being bug-compatible with Stroustrup's half-assed preprocessor-based thing he'd whipped up in his spare time at AT&T. |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | That said, this is probably a bug in MSVC, since the observed behavior would also break the standard library. |
| 04:47 | <@Derakon> | McM -- do you remember offhand where APPDATA is? |
| 04:47 | <@Derakon> | I need to find and excise my config files on Windows. >. |
| 04:47 | <@Derakon> | >.< |
| 04:53 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, found 'em. C:/Users/Username/AppData/Roaming. |
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| 05:44 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, that's not where it is on XP. =P |
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| 16:18 | | * gnolam curses the lack of a decent open source graphics editor. |
| 16:19 | <@UndeadAnno> | Why does it need to be open source? |
| 16:21 | <@TheWatcher> | What's wrong with gimp, anyway? I've 2.6.4 and photoshop on here, and the only time I use photoshop is when I need to use my tablet |
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| 16:22 | <@TheWatcher> | (or when I need one of photoshop's features that maybe 2% of people ever go near) |
| 16:23 | <@gnolam> | It doesn't actually /need/ to be open source, but that's about the only way you can be sure to get it working in Linux. |
| 16:23 | <@gnolam> | As for what's wrong with GIMP... well... I don't even know where to begin. |
| 16:23 | <@gnolam> | No, wait, I know: the absolutely godawful UI. |
| 16:24 | <@gnolam> | The lack of basic drawing functionality. |
| 16:24 | <@gnolam> | The instability. |
| 16:24 | <@TheWatcher> | hah, photoshop crashes more than gimp, y'know? |
| 16:25 | <@gnolam> | Not for me. |
| 16:25 | <@TheWatcher> | and once you get past the whole "no single root window" thing, gimp's UI isn't really that drastically different |
| 16:26 | | * TheWatcher shrug |
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| 17:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 18:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:37 | <@McMartin> | TheWatcher: The fact that the devs and support communities treated the critique "YOU DO NOT HAVE A MOTHERFUCKING LINE TOOL" with derision and contempt, because otherwise-undocumented hotkeys let you have the same result. |
| 18:38 | <@gnolam> | And not actually the same result, unless it's changed since the last time I threw my hands up in disgust and uninstalled the bloody thing. |
| 18:39 | <@gnolam> | Because then it was "click somewhere, hold shift (?) and click somewhere else", which works if and only if you're not using transparency in any way. |
| 18:39 | <@McMartin> | Well, shift was involved, becuase they did a howto for lines. |
| 18:40 | <@gnolam> | ("Transparency in any way" includes antialiasing BTW) |
| 18:40 | <@McMartin> | It was 15 pages long, all of it pointing out where Shift keys are. |
| 18:40 | <@McMartin> | Since, you know, it is deeply unreasonable to expect that there might be specialized tools for drawing graphics primitives, particularly when there are for the other primitives! |
| 18:42 | <@McMartin> | (And particularly when every piece of software you're trying to make an OSS version of has such a tool) |
| 18:42 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 18:43 | <@Derakon> | I get the impression that the GIMP is what you get when a bunch of OSS junkies decide to make a tool for making art, when none of them are themselves artists and in fact they don't want anything to do with artists. |
| 18:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Derakon: alas, suck is my experience of pretty much every art package since TVPaint 3.6 |
| 18:45 | <@TheWatcher> | *such |
| 18:45 | <@TheWatcher> | (with the notable exception of Aura, which... yeah, you don't want to know how much that costs) |
| 18:45 | | * gnolam hugs Deluxe Paint 3. |
| 18:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Hee |
| 18:46 | <@TheWatcher> | I still have DP3, 4, and TVPaint installed in a UAE setup :D |
| 18:55 | | Bobsentme [~Bobsentme@Nightstar-14642.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 18:55 | | * Bobsentme sighs and asks for help with an awk line |
| 18:55 | < Bobsentme> | I've got a data file called "cars". I'm trying to print it out in a different format (ie, $3, $1, $2, $4). |
| 18:56 | < Bobsentme> | I can get it to print, but I'm trying to figure out how to preserve the tab spacing, instead of it all coming out jumbled together |
| 18:56 | < Bobsentme> | This is what I've got so far: awk '{print ($3\$1\$2\$4)}' 'cars' |
| 18:56 | < Bobsentme> | err...that's the incorrect one. |
| 18:57 | < Bobsentme> | replace the \'s with ,'s and you've got the line. |
| 19:01 | < Bobsentme> | awk '{print ($3, $1, $2, $4)}' 'cars' |
| 19:04 | <@Derakon> | What happens if you tell awk to print "\t"? |
| 19:05 | <@Derakon> | Seems to do what you'd want. |
| 19:05 | <@Derakon> | So do awk '{print ($3, "\t", $1, "\t", etc. |
| 19:06 | < Bobsentme> | that worked...though I thought I had tried every invocation of \t. |
| 19:06 | < Bobsentme> | ty |
| 19:06 | <@Derakon> | The important thing is the difference between '\t' and "\t". |
| 19:06 | <@Derakon> | Things in single quotes are string literals. |
| 19:06 | <@Derakon> | Things in double quotes may have their contents interpreted. |
| 19:08 | < Bobsentme> | ah |
| 19:11 | <@Derakon> | ...heh. I just thought of an amusing way to tweak the difficulty of Selene. |
| 19:11 | <@Derakon> | Change the universe size! |
| 19:11 | <@Derakon> | Tiny universes would be annoyingly difficult, I suspect. |
| 19:11 | < Bobsentme> | ye gods! |
| 19:11 | < Bobsentme> | feeling evil today, I see? |
| 19:12 | <@Derakon> | (Selene being a 2D freerange scrolling shmup I'm working on) |
| 19:20 | < Bobsentme> | awk '{ total=$4+$3; print ($1"\t" $2"\t" $3"\t" $4 "\t" $total) }' 'cars' |
| 19:22 | < Bobsentme> | that line isn't printing my total of $3 and $4. Any ideas? |
| 19:22 | <@Derakon> | Don't you need commas between terms? |
| 19:23 | < Bobsentme> | no idea. This awk stuff is all new to me, and the web isn't clear on these things. |
| 19:33 | < Bobsentme> | heh, well, got the total to print. Now none of the other fields are. |
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| 19:44 | < Bobsentme> | awk '{($total=$3+$4); print ($3, $1, $2, $4, $total)}' 'cars' ARGH! |
| 19:45 | < Bobsentme> | All that does is print the totals |
| 19:46 | <@TheWatcher> | hm, try awk '{($total=$3+$4); print $3, $1, $2, $4, $total}' 'cars' ? |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | You don't want "$total". |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | You want "total". |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | awk '{t = $3 + $4; print $3,$1,$2,$4,t}' < /tmp/u.txt |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | Just because the numbered variables have dollarsigns doesn't mean other variables should. Fun! |
| 19:48 | < Bobsentme> | Derakon wins. |
| 19:49 | | * Bobsentme hands you all of his internets |
| 19:49 | <@Derakon> | Thanks, but they don't match my decor. |
| 19:49 | < Bobsentme> | So, I'm not the only one who is confused by whatever logic awk uses? |
| 19:49 | | * TheWatcher eyes |
| 19:49 | <@TheWatcher> | oh, yeah. That's why I just use perl >.> |
| 19:49 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 19:49 | < Bobsentme> | heh |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | It wasn't until I reduced "total" to "t" that I remembered the glyph thing. |
| 19:50 | <@Derakon> | I used to use awk for running totals all the time to figure out e.g. order counts. |
| 20:09 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 23:03 | <@Derakon> | Okay! |
| 23:03 | <@Derakon> | I now have a game field larger than the screen, which scrolls and loops properly as the camera moves. |
| 23:03 | <@Derakon> | Complete with starfield. |
| 23:13 | <@Derakon> | Hmm...EventManager class. You call it, providing a set of UI objects; it gets Pygame's events, maps those events to keyboard actions (e.g. player ship moving), and also does interaction with the UI objects. |
| 23:14 | <@Derakon> | So for example, if the up arrow is pressed and the user has clicked on the Quit button, calling EventManager::processEvents([quitButton]) would get you [PLAYER_ACTION_THRUST, GLOBAL_ACTION_QUIT], or something like that. |
| 23:14 | <@Derakon> | Sound plausible? |
| 23:27 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 23:36 | | * gnolam slowly goes insane from Source. |
| 23:37 | | * gnolam pulls a the bottle of scotch. |
| 23:37 | <@gnolam> | It might not actually help me design this thing, but it'll make the actual process so much nicer. |
| 23:40 | <@UndeadAnno> | The blood alcohol content versus programming efficiency is a gauss curve. :P |
| 23:41 | <@UndeadAnno> | +chart |
| 23:52 | <@gnolam> | Mmm, single malt. |
| 23:52 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| --- Log closed Thu Feb 19 00:00:30 2009 |