| --- Log opened Mon Nov 13 00:00:24 2006 |
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| 08:34 | | Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net quits: @MahalWork, @Pi, KarmaBot, @Chalcedon, @jerith, @Chalain |
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| 08:35 | | ServerMode/#Code [+oo Chalcedon MahalWork] by Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net |
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| 12:06 | <@jerith> | So, #code. I have a question. |
| 12:07 | <@jerith> | On Wednesday night I will be talking to a programmer's group about Ruby. |
| 12:07 | < Reiver> | "It's like Python, but without documentation." |
| 12:07 | <@jerith> | They're all somewhat familiar with Python, Java, PHP, C, etc. but not Ruby. |
| 12:07 | < Reiver> | "Oh, and pretty much the whole language is syntactic sugar." |
| 12:07 | <@jerith> | What should I say? |
| 12:07 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | "It's like REBOL but free" |
| 12:09 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | (and if they know not what REBOL is, shame upon them. Fie and shame I say) |
| 12:09 | <@jerith> | Then you shall have to say fie and shame in my direction. |
| 12:10 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | Very well! Fie and shame upon thee, knowlessman! ;p |
| 12:11 | < Reiver> | My answers were serious. |
| 12:11 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | As was mine! ¬¬ |
| 12:11 | | * jerith nods sagely. |
| 12:11 | < Reiver> | Pi's opinion of Ruby is "basically Python, but slightly more powerful and vastly less documented". |
| 12:12 | < EvilDarkLord> | "All the cool kids are doing it." |
| 12:12 | <@jerith> | It's different different enough from Python to make it an interesting talk. |
| 12:12 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | And it doesn't have whitespace sensitivity |
| 12:13 | < Reiver> | Which is nice. |
| 12:13 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | the word I'd use is 'sane' |
| 12:14 | < Reiver> | The whitespace sensitivity would have been healthier had they forced either a space or tab delimitation. |
| 12:14 | < Reiver> | Having it either-or-but-the-two-aren't-quite-the-same is just a recipie for code-breakage. |
| 12:24 | <@jerith> | Python allows whatever whitespace you like as long as it's consistent. |
| 12:24 | <@jerith> | Mixing tabs and spaces is a recipe for pain anywhere. |
| 12:25 | <@jerith> | Although for some reason Sun formats all their Java like that. |
| 12:25 | < EvilDarkLord> | It's a conspiracy! |
| 12:27 | | Stephenie [Safyra@Nightstar-4370.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 12:32 | <@jerith> | Hmm, I need to learn how to write code that takes blocks. |
| 12:32 | <@jerith> | So that I can show people. |
| 12:35 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | (You'll show them, you'll show them all! Bwahahahahahah!) ¬¬ |
| 12:38 | <@jerith> | Indeed. |
| 12:38 | <@jerith> | But only the ones who are actually there. |
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| 19:20 | <@jerith> | In the absence of vehement objections, g'night. |
| 19:21 | | Mahal is now known as MahalWork |
| 19:21 | < Vornotron> | ni |
| 19:21 | <@jerith> | Oops, wrong chan. :-) |
| 19:30 | < Vornotron> | ...java is now gpl |
| 19:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...as in Sun Java? |
| 19:33 | < Vornotron> | yes. |
| 19:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | McM will be happy about that, I think. |
| 19:33 | < Vornotron> | http://www.sun.com/2006-1113/feature/index.jsp |
| 19:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | So will I if it means I can say # yum install java and get a working JVM~ |
| 19:34 | < Vornotron> | yeah |
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| 22:47 | < Vornotron> | nargbored |
| 22:47 | | * Reiver ravishes Vorn to cheer him up! |
| 22:50 | < Stephenie> | o_O |
| 22:51 | | * Stephenie ponders if shes thinking of the right ravishing |
| 22:51 | | * Reiver would volinteer to demonstrate, but suspects TF would probably beat him~ |
| 22:52 | | * ToxicFrog doesn't swing that way, thankyou~ |
| 22:53 | | * Stephenie falls over laughing |
| 22:53 | < Reiver> | ...I had meant 'beating' in the 'with a baseball bat', TF |
| 22:53 | < Reiver> | :p |
| 22:53 | < aoanla> | ...aww. |
| 22:53 | < Reiver> | aoanla is dissapointed by the disambiguation? |
| 22:53 | < aoanla> | I am! |
| 22:55 | | * Reiver rereads the sentence, realises there is a third interpretation to that sentence he'd missed previously... |
| 22:55 | | * Reiver then falls over giggling. |
| 22:55 | < Stephenie> | lol glad to see you got it |
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| 23:15 | < Vornotron> | :( |
| 23:15 | | * Vornotron hurtkills Reiver, half an hour later. |
| 23:15 | <@McMartin> | So, Sun just GPLed J2SE, J2ME, and J2EE |
| 23:16 | < Vornotron> | is that a "just" as in "very recently", or as in "only"? |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | http://www.sun.com/2006-1113/feature/index.jsp |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | As in, "announced today" |
| 23:16 | < Vornotron> | Yes, I knew that |
| 23:16 | | * Vornotron points up about 4 hours |
| 23:16 | < Reiver> | McM: Is this a good thing? |
| 23:17 | <@McMartin> | It means Ubuntu, Fedora Core, etc, are likely to end up having working Java installs out of the box, which is good. |
| 23:17 | < Reiver> | Oohshiny. |
| 23:17 | <@McMartin> | It means there's a functioning, inspectable reference implementation, which is good for the survivability of the language |
| 23:18 | <@McMartin> | And it ensures that as a language it will survive if Sun dies |
| 23:18 | < Vornotron> | Yay good things |
| 23:18 | < Reiver> | ...Is this perhaps a first step to Sun giving up on it, or? |
| 23:18 | <@McMartin> | Bell Labs hasn't exactly given up on C. |
| 23:18 | < Vornotron> | Indeed not |
| 23:19 | <@McMartin> | The language was already free for download. |
| 23:19 | | * Reiver is mostly pondering: What's the buisness sense behind this? |
| 23:19 | <@McMartin> | Wider adoption |
| 23:19 | <@McMartin> | No loss in income, because there wasn't any income to begin with. |
| 23:19 | < Vornotron> | you get thousands of optimization freaks poring over every line of code looking for something - anything - to make it faster |
| 23:20 | < Reiver> | Aha. |
| 23:20 | < Reiver> | ...pft |
| 23:20 | < Vornotron> | which gets you more adoption |
| 23:20 | <@McMartin> | Honestly, I'm not going to trust the optimization freaks much~ |
| 23:20 | < Reiver> | I fear the developers inbox |
| 23:20 | <@McMartin> | Except possibly in the Standard Library. |
| 23:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | You get various Linux flavours including it out of the box, which, again, wider adoption + better end user experience. |
| 23:21 | < Vornotron> | You're more likely to get better native libraries, too. |
| 23:31 | < Vornotron> | (now if we could clean up the library itself...) |
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| --- Log closed Tue Nov 14 00:00:24 2006 |