| --- Log opened Mon Sep 03 00:00:16 2012 |
| 00:38 | | addking [ak@Nightstar-0ac86db8.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:03 | | MoF0-136 [rsbdnvbwein@Nightstar-da7fffe9.ma.comcast.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 02:03 | | MoF0-136 [rsbdnvbwein@Nightstar-da7fffe9.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 03:13 | | afny [locas@Nightstar-42c41d95.res.rr.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 03:27 | | AnCarver [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-8d9f9e3d.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 03:27 | < AnCarver> | It's like I never left |
| 03:28 | < AnCarver> | Everyone is exactly where I last saw them. |
| 03:28 | < AnCarver> | ^^ |
| 03:28 | < afny> | except I'm naked. |
| 03:29 | < afny> | bumping that irc thread didn't really get things hopping around here |
| 03:29 | < afny> | oh well |
| 03:29 | < afny> | if you stick around, you might see Malcolm; he's got a lot of Mechaton experience |
| 03:29 | < afny> | more than most people on the forum, since he's played older editions |
| 03:29 | < afny> | I'm gonna go take a shower though, so...hold the fort. |
| 03:30 | < AnCarver> | This channel is safe with me? |
| 03:30 | < afny> | This channel is never safe. |
| 03:30 | < AnCarver> | that got an immidiate shiver reaction from me |
| 04:25 | < afny> | hm |
| 04:25 | < afny> | I only have 3gb free |
| 04:25 | < afny> | on this partition |
| 04:25 | < afny> | must fix. |
| 04:41 | < AnCarver> | that is a low number nowadays |
| 04:41 | < AnCarver> | but it used to me an insane number |
| 04:41 | < AnCarver> | sometimes the progression of technology over my lifetime bewilders and impresses me |
| 04:46 | <~McMartin> | We now live in The Future |
| 04:47 | < neoaez> | Bah. 640k will always be enough. |
| 04:47 | <~McMartin> | 30 years of the C64 \o/ |
| 04:48 | < neoaez> | Long live the Timex Sinclair! |
| 04:48 | <~McMartin> | That had 1K. |
| 04:48 | <~McMartin> | 1K isn't enough |
| 04:49 | < neoaez> | Heh |
| 04:49 | < neoaez> | How I miss playing Androids! Starting it up from my dad's giant boombox because it was on cassette. |
| 04:49 | <~McMartin> | There used to be radio broadcasts of cassette-stored programs. |
| 04:50 | <~McMartin> | Despite the fact that we have, you know, an Internet now, this is still mind-bogglingly awesome to me. |
| 04:50 | < neoaez> | Now that I did not know. |
| 04:50 | <~McMartin> | The idea was that you'd tape the radio show and feed the result to the computer; the bitrate was apparently low enough that reception noise was not an issue. |
| 04:51 | < neoaez> | Makes sense. |
| 04:51 | < neoaez> | Wow. |
| 04:51 | < neoaez> | I need to remember that for after the apocalypse. |
| 04:53 | <~McMartin> | Is Androids this game? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots_%28BSD_game%29 |
| 04:55 | < neoaez> | http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=4000001 |
| 04:56 | < neoaez> | I fondly remember the box art. http://www.flashbackgames.co.uk/shop/Item.asp?Title=Androids_Rom_Cartridge&Produ ctID=2232 |
| 04:56 | <~McMartin> | OK, that is a much fancier system than the one I had |
| 04:56 | <~McMartin> | Which was the US version of, IIRC, the ZX81. |
| 04:56 | <~McMartin> | That machine was incredibly terrible |
| 04:58 | < neoaez> | I was in elementary school. My brother and I would beg dad to set it up. It would take FOREVER to load from cassette. |
| 04:58 | <~McMartin> | Yeah |
| 04:59 | <~McMartin> | What I mean is, the screenshot I see there isn't anything like what the TS1000 was capable of |
| 04:59 | <~McMartin> | This looks closer to a Speccy 48k |
| 04:59 | <~McMartin> | I hadn't realized Timex stuck with it that long |
| 04:59 | < neoaez> | Heh. Yeah we had the 2068. |
| 05:00 | < neoaez> | Dad had some friends that had the 1000. |
| 05:04 | < AnCarver> | And I just finished having a conversation with my roommate about how gigs were small nowadays. Shoulda just pointed him to the chatlog |
| 05:05 | < neoaez> | Yay for being old! |
| 05:06 | < AnCarver> | as time goes on, I get better at that. |
| 05:07 | < neoaez> | Yeah. It is kind of inevitable. |
| 05:08 | <~McMartin> | My lawn |
| 05:08 | <~McMartin> | You kids are on it |
| 05:08 | < neoaez> | Hah. |
| 05:15 | < neoaez> | So I have failed at the racing rules. I really want to see what mchnzr has come up with. |
| 05:23 | < afny> | I should post what I have so far |
| 05:24 | < afny> | though I think I'm doing something completely different |
| 05:24 | < neoaez> | You, too? I thought you were happy just building =) |
| 05:24 | < neoaez> | Post! My sucked. |
| 05:24 | < afny> | well mine is like |
| 05:24 | < neoaez> | Mine sucked |
| 05:24 | < afny> | two teams |
| 05:24 | < afny> | it's roller derby scoring |
| 05:24 | < afny> | and the mechanics are more or less poker hands |
| 05:24 | < neoaez> | Hmm |
| 05:24 | < afny> | I'll probably simplify that a little bit but it's card based |
| 05:25 | < afny> | the idea so far is that a card based system lets you "bluff" your position |
| 05:25 | < neoaez> | I'd gone back and forth on cards. I also considered a Mouseguard like mechanic that is used for Chases, but dismissed it since it was only two-sided. |
| 05:25 | < afny> | yeah, mine is only two sided as well |
| 05:25 | < afny> | but each team has multiple pieces |
| 05:26 | < afny> | I dunno, it's not WORKING yet |
| 05:26 | < afny> | so maybe I'll wait until it WORKS to post :P |
| 05:26 | < neoaez> | Heh. |
| 05:27 | < AnCarver> | What exactly is the effort? |
| 05:27 | < neoaez> | I've been playtesting about 4 different rule mechanics and none really grabbed the either the fun factor or pushed the thematic buttons I wanted. |
| 05:27 | < neoaez> | Rooftop racing rules. |
| 05:27 | < AnCarver> | For MF0, or independent of |
| 05:27 | < neoaez> | For MF0 |
| 05:27 | < afny> | well sort of |
| 05:28 | < afny> | for Solar Century |
| 05:28 | < afny> | I mean, right? I dunno, I haven't seen your rules |
| 05:28 | < afny> | I should say Solar Calender |
| 05:29 | < neoaez> | AnCarver: Joshua briefly mentioned the concept here: http://www.mobileframehangar.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1599 |
| 05:29 | < neoaez> | afny: thus my "Premise" statement: Illegal or semi-legal racing using tricked out hot rod frames in MF0's Solar Union Calendar |
| 05:30 | < afny> | I just mean that it isn't directly related to the mf0 ruleset |
| 05:30 | < afny> | it's more tied to the solar calender setting |
| 05:30 | < neoaez> | Yeah |
| 05:30 | < neoaez> | I was trying to maintain some parity to make it easier to learn if you knew MF0 |
| 05:30 | < neoaez> | But that just didn't work out |
| 05:30 | < afny> | I don't really think it's necessary |
| 05:31 | < afny> | if it happens to work out that way, great, but the ruleset isn't part of the setting |
| 05:31 | < afny> | it's just representative |
| 05:32 | < neoaez> | I still would like to come up with a mechanic that allows you to take chances and "red-line" your frame. |
| 05:32 | < neoaez> | Without adding a ton of bookkeeping or being stupidly complicated. |
| 05:33 | < neoaez> | I was trying to find a way to engage the "audience" |
| 05:34 | < afny> | Yeah, my ruleset (and my image of the sport) doesn't really awknowledge an audience at all |
| 05:34 | < afny> | other than some groupies and a betting pool |
| 05:34 | < neoaez> | My vision is the same. |
| 05:34 | < afny> | I was thinking ILLEGAL races, but some people have definitely stepped it up and gone for a grand prix kinda deal |
| 05:34 | < afny> | which is also sweet |
| 05:35 | < neoaez> | I just wanted to have a way to engage the other players when it wasn't their turn. |
| 05:35 | < afny> | oh, that's what you meant by "audience":P |
| 05:35 | < AnCarver> | I am interested in these things |
| 05:35 | < afny> | well I think an action cascade would be doable |
| 05:35 | < AnCarver> | Can I help> |
| 05:35 | < afny> | that's why I'm trying to make it a sprint/jamming system as opposed to an endurance race |
| 05:35 | < AnCarver> | ? |
| 05:35 | < neoaez> | AnCarver: just jump in. |
| 05:35 | < afny> | we're all pretty much just spitballing at this point |
| 05:35 | < afny> | ^ |
| 05:36 | < afny> | with a sprint, everyone wants to stay close together until someone breaks into their sprint |
| 05:36 | < afny> | so there is potential for action cascading like in mf0 |
| 05:36 | < neoaez> | I liked the mouseguard mechanic because everyone played simultaneously. |
| 05:36 | < afny> | and with lapping, each player is activating multple pieces |
| 05:36 | < neoaez> | afny: go on |
| 05:36 | < afny> | I dunno, that was all |
| 05:36 | < afny> | how does the mouseguard mechanic work? |
| 05:36 | < afny> | I've only read a bit about that ruleset, it seems sweet |
| 05:36 | < afny> | and I like the comic |
| 05:37 | < neoaez> | There are 4 basic action types you can choose for any conflict type: Attack, Defend, Feint, Manuever |
| 05:37 | < neoaez> | Applied to racing/chase these map out as: |
| 05:37 | < neoaez> | Attack: full speed ahead |
| 05:39 | < neoaez> | Defend: drafting (in a chase it's covering your tracks) |
| 05:40 | < neoaez> | Feint: sudden change in direction |
| 05:40 | < neoaez> | manuever: dirty trick (trip, push, etc...) against your opponent |
| 05:41 | < neoaez> | You choose in secret and reveal together. |
| 05:41 | < neoaez> | There is a little chart that tells you how to resolve each action based on what two options were picked |
| 05:43 | < neoaez> | Issues: plays well with 2 distinct sides to a conflict; hard to determine what scale and granularity to play out the race |
| 05:45 | < AnCarver> | I could imagine a couple ways to incorperate a version of that mechanic with the MF0 ruleset |
| 05:46 | < neoaez> | AnCarver: what are you thinking? |
| 05:46 | < AnCarver> | First thing that comes to mind would be altering the meaning of the four dice colors to match the four options, and then making the options simplify down to flat bonuses on the rolls (like spot in MF0 now), or making manuvering work in some similar important way |
| 05:47 | < AnCarver> | SSRs would be speed boosts |
| 05:47 | < neoaez> | afny: (off-topic -- oooo! shiny!!) seen this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/magusthemando/7918094110/in/faves-ironbricks/ |
| 05:47 | < afny> | yeah, it's nice |
| 05:47 | < afny> | I love those phones |
| 05:48 | < neoaez> | AnCarver: hmm... I didn't make that connection. I'd considered other systems to replace or supplement the current ones. |
| 05:48 | < afny> | too many travis for me, though |
| 05:48 | < neoaez> | Have to think it through. |
| 05:48 | < neoaez> | afny: not me =) |
| 05:49 | < AnCarver> | What exactly do you imagine the "defend" option accomplishing? |
| 05:49 | < afny> | I really gotta get some of those phones |
| 05:49 | < afny> | they're just hilarious |
| 05:49 | < afny> | and a grappling hook gun |
| 05:49 | < neoaez> | afny: yes. I almost bought some the other day. Have to stay off cracklink. |
| 05:49 | < afny> | is a SWEET direct fire/movement system combo |
| 05:50 | < AnCarver> | Different movement systems could be different red die types |
| 05:50 | < neoaez> | AnCarver: I have to think that one through more. I'd originally seen it as a conservative move forward. It allowed you to move ahead "cautiously" just incase someone put an obstacle in front of you. |
| 05:51 | < neoaez> | It also didn't incur any of the "red-line" penalties I had contemplated. |
| 05:51 | < neoaez> | Attack was more reckless abandon |
| 05:51 | < neoaez> | Moving ahead at full speed |
| 05:52 | < neoaez> | Pushing your manuever system to its limit |
| 05:55 | < AnCarver> | How different do you want it to be? |
| 05:56 | < afny> | Like I said earlier I don't see any reason the rulesets even need to resemble eachother |
| 05:56 | < afny> | you don't have to go crazy like me and use poker hands, but |
| 05:56 | < afny> | you just have to figure out what tools let you carve out the kind of scenario you want best, and then use them |
| 05:57 | < afny> | if a bunch of color coded dice in turns aren't the best tools, well, find some other tools. |
| 05:57 | < neoaez> | Not sure that is the real question. I want whatever mechanic we end up using to capture "the spirit of giant robots practicing parkour across the rooftops of a futuristic colonial town". |
| 05:57 | < afny> | yeah, exactly |
| 05:57 | < afny> | you want your mechanic to serve your aesthetics |
| 05:57 | < neoaez> | I just started with trying to modify mf0's mechanics. |
| 05:58 | < afny> | not a bad place to start, surely; I just don't think resemblance should be a priority |
| 05:58 | < neoaez> | afny: A point I have conceded after beating my head against my desk this afternoon. |
| 05:58 | < AnCarver> | So my first thought is you probably have to drop the mini |
| 05:59 | < afny> | heh |
| 05:59 | < AnCarver> | *mini's |
| 05:59 | < afny> | what? why |
| 05:59 | < neoaez> | WHOA! |
| 05:59 | < afny> | the minis are like, the ONLY thing you can't drop. |
| 05:59 | < neoaez> | =) |
| 05:59 | < AnCarver> | Really now? |
| 05:59 | < neoaez> | Exactly |
| 05:59 | < AnCarver> | Do you know a game with minatures that takes less than 2 hours to play? |
| 05:59 | < AnCarver> | It's a race |
| 05:59 | < AnCarver> | You want it to be fast |
| 05:59 | < afny> | you're thinking wargames |
| 05:59 | < afny> | not games with pieces., |
| 05:59 | < afny> | they're just game pieces |
| 06:00 | < afny> | candyland doesn't take two hours to play |
| 06:00 | < neoaez> | or chutes and ladders |
| 06:00 | < afny> | enchanted forest |
| 06:00 | < afny> | PARCHEESI |
| 06:00 | < AnCarver> | Mini's and game pieces are not the same thing, guys |
| 06:00 | < afny> | effectively, they are :P |
| 06:00 | | * neoaez considered adapted Chutes and Ladders |
| 06:00 | < neoaez> | adapting, too |
| 06:00 | < AnCarver> | ok fine if you want to be literal about it. |
| 06:01 | < afny> | :\ |
| 06:01 | < afny> | I'm just saying there's absolutely no reason to get rid of the lego robots |
| 06:01 | < AnCarver> | but you cant actually model a whole race track and then run through it in any kind of speed |
| 06:01 | < afny> | the POINT OF THE THNG is lego robots |
| 06:01 | < AnCarver> | though that would be cool |
| 06:01 | < afny> | you don't have to build a 1:1 scale rooftop racetrack to use lego robots as game pieces |
| 06:01 | < neoaez> | I think you can model the race track more abstractly |
| 06:01 | < afny> | yeah, exactly |
| 06:01 | < AnCarver> | not saying drop the lego models, just the models as minatures |
| 06:01 | < neoaez> | But not drop the robots! |
| 06:01 | < neoaez> | Blasphemer! |
| 06:02 | < AnCarver> | sorry to freak you guys out there |
| 06:02 | | * neoaez gets the matches |
| 06:02 | < AnCarver> | eep. |
| 06:02 | < neoaez> | Seriously, it is a design goal to keep the lego robotos |
| 06:02 | < AnCarver> | I meant you couldn't use full mesurements, have the full range of motion, etc |
| 06:02 | < neoaez> | I cannot type |
| 06:02 | < neoaez> | robots! |
| 06:02 | < afny> | what do you mean measurements or range of motion |
| 06:03 | < AnCarver> | moving around on a table |
| 06:03 | < AnCarver> | in any direction |
| 06:03 | < afny> | like, at least for my card thing, I don't imagine using rulers at all |
| 06:03 | < AnCarver> | yea |
| 06:03 | < neoaez> | Same for the rules I originally wrote |
| 06:03 | < neoaez> | Each "rooftop" was a space. |
| 06:03 | < AnCarver> | Right, well I'm just starting |
| 06:03 | < AnCarver> | so I'm back where you started |
| 06:03 | < neoaez> | You had to beat a challenge score to proceed to that system |
| 06:04 | < neoaez> | wow. I need coffee. |
| 06:04 | < neoaez> | system = rooftop |
| 06:04 | < neoaez> | thoughts. jumbled. |
| 06:04 | < afny> | same |
| 06:05 | < AnCarver> | You could tile the board, so the difficulty of the next couple rooftops wouldn't be immidiately obvious, and so you could create multiplul paths |
| 06:05 | < AnCarver> | You could even create a system where players stack the deck for and against each other |
| 06:05 | < AnCarver> | that would be pretty neat |
| 06:07 | < neoaez> | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WcJ_HBkYr6T7lKe5_QT0-d-vR_AOMlPAGvfzPlOkpvk/ edit |
| 06:07 | < neoaez> | If you want to subject yourself to the horror |
| 06:07 | < neoaez> | Some of the things you mention are implied in there: cooperatively building the track; assigning the challenge ratings as a group |
| 06:08 | < neoaez> | The math in those mechanics don't work |
| 06:08 | < neoaez> | but I think some of the goals and ideas can survive in one form or another. |
| 06:10 | < afny> | oh god I've watched the same three minutes of this video like eight times |
| 06:10 | < afny> | I'm going to go make tea |
| 06:11 | < neoaez> | I just grabbed some coffee |
| 06:11 | < neoaez> | I need randolph's math skills. |
| 06:13 | < afny> | I'm studying pvp right now so I'm not really being productive |
| 06:13 | < afny> | but I suck at math anyway |
| 06:13 | < afny> | that's why my system uses cards :\ |
| 06:13 | < neoaez> | I'm pretty good with it, but what I've seen him produce is just amazing. |
| 06:15 | < neoaez> | http://danielsolisblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/split-decision.html |
| 06:15 | < neoaez> | http://danielsolisblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/split-decision-alpha-testing-with-ma rk.html |
| 06:15 | < neoaez> | Another mechanic I tried to shoehorn. |
| 06:16 | < neoaez> | Again pushing the idea of deciding how much you wanted to push your luck |
| 06:27 | < AnCarver> | What if you used a MF0 like roll-assign dice system, and took redline every time you took the HIGHEST value? |
| 06:28 | < AnCarver> | Or at least highest value of the appropreate color |
| 06:28 | < AnCarver> | white dice are safe, but you only get two |
| 06:28 | < neoaez> | interesting... |
| 06:29 | < neoaez> | what are the systems? |
| 06:29 | < neoaez> | Are we still mapping the mouseguard actions as systems? |
| 06:29 | < AnCarver> | Something like that |
| 06:30 | < AnCarver> | I don't quite like what blue maps to right now |
| 06:30 | < neoaez> | Its the hardest to map, I agree. |
| 06:31 | < AnCarver> | It could be it maps to Cooling systems |
| 06:31 | < AnCarver> | when you gain redline, you roll a die at the end of the turn for every point, or some such |
| 06:31 | < AnCarver> | and the number you need to roll under is you Blue number |
| 06:31 | < AnCarver> | otherwise you take a system of damage |
| 06:32 | < afny> | but do you really want to have a damage system? |
| 06:34 | < neoaez> | How could we track systems overloading, malfunctioning, etc... as a result of red-lining or another player causing mischief? |
| 06:34 | < AnCarver> | Alternate version: If you fail your roll (Based on BLUE systems) |
| 06:34 | < afny> | a movement penalty |
| 06:34 | < AnCarver> | then you have to pick the next highest value of your rolls next turn |
| 06:34 | < AnCarver> | I like the pick the next highest mechanic |
| 06:35 | < AnCarver> | because it isn't a flat penalty (which would get out of hand bad), and is flexable in its intensity and flavor |
| 06:37 | < AnCarver> | It also fits the flavor of the MF0 universe we've seen so far, mechanically - straight stacking adds are difficult to balance for |
| 06:39 | | * neoaez taking notes and doing some intense pondering |
| 06:41 | < AnCarver> | Green and Yellow might map to a offensive and defensive score, where Green allows you to redline your opponent and Yellow to not be Redlined |
| 06:46 | < neoaez> | Yeah. |
| 06:47 | < neoaez> | I was thinking it would act like a spot. They can place a yellow on you and it you have to compensate with your cooling system; reduce your speed or suffer some penalty. |
| 06:48 | < neoaez> | The mechanics are still jumbled up in my head, so I need to think it through. |
| 06:48 | < neoaez> | Good stuff though. |
| 06:48 | < neoaez> | Like, what does assigning a die result to Engine/Speed get you? |
| 06:49 | < neoaez> | How does the cooling system result offset your choice for speed/engine. |
| 06:49 | < neoaez> | I mean, if we are not measuring out movement units, how do you move ahead? |
| 06:50 | < neoaez> | Is your turn independent? Do we roll simultaneously and try to arrange the best results before everyone reveals? |
| 06:51 | < neoaez> | Then move to the next roof in the order of highest to lowest? |
| 06:51 | < neoaez> | Then the rooftops just become window dressing and represent smaller conflicts for lead position. |
| 06:52 | < neoaez> | Does having the lead give you any benefit in subsequent conflicts? |
| 06:55 | < neoaez> | Ooooo... |
| 06:55 | < neoaez> | maybe after the first round, you determine position. |
| 06:55 | < neoaez> | For all subsequent rounds you are only competing against the one frame in position ahead of you. |
| 06:55 | < neoaez> | You have to work your way to the leader. |
| 06:56 | < neoaez> | I like it! |
| 06:57 | < neoaez> | The leader basically becomes the defender. |
| 06:58 | < AnCarver> | YEah |
| 06:58 | < AnCarver> | And you have a doomsday counter that determines how long to the end of the race |
| 06:59 | < neoaez> | So we now have a basic pacing mechanic. |
| 06:59 | < neoaez> | The dooms day clock is basically how many rooftops we have on the track. |
| 06:59 | < AnCarver> | Players counting down the timer represents the racers gunning it to the end, vs not ticking is jockying for position |
| 06:59 | < neoaez> | We don't really need that |
| 07:00 | < AnCarver> | It depends on how abstract you want the track. |
| 07:00 | < neoaez> | Hmm.... I don't see how you can have the physical track and the abstract clock representing the track |
| 07:00 | < afny> | that's the central mechanic to my rules |
| 07:00 | < afny> | but I don't have a physical track in the same way |
| 07:00 | < AnCarver> | But yeah, mainly just spitballin |
| 07:00 | < neoaez> | afny: Oh? |
| 07:00 | < AnCarver> | discard and progress |
| 07:00 | < neoaez> | No. |
| 07:00 | < neoaez> | Hold up. |
| 07:00 | < neoaez> | I'm not throwing it out. |
| 07:00 | < afny> | like jockying for position vs choosing went to go into a full split |
| 07:00 | < neoaez> | I like it, but it conflicts with the track building aspect. |
| 07:00 | < afny> | is the "meat" |
| 07:00 | < afny> | for me |
| 07:01 | < afny> | but it doesn't have to be for you |
| 07:01 | < afny> | especially if you have a physical track |
| 07:01 | < neoaez> | If you aren't moving game pieces on a board, then why have game pieces? |
| 07:01 | < neoaez> | How did you envision your board? |
| 07:02 | < afny> | I'm not entirely sure yet, but the movement of pieces represents their position in relation to one another |
| 07:02 | < afny> | and not their position on a plane |
| 07:02 | < afny> | again I've only got two players max |
| 07:02 | < neoaez> | I really want to see people building terrain rooftops out of lego. |
| 07:03 | < afny> | The way I'm incorporating terrain is like |
| 07:03 | < afny> | you build radar dishes or air conditioners or whatever |
| 07:03 | < afny> | and then occupy the same squares that a frame might occupy |
| 07:03 | < afny> | but not at the same time, necessarily |
| 07:03 | < afny> | so movement is abstracted; obstacles move a fixed distance every hand |
| 07:04 | < afny> | and your frames move a variable distance based on their positioning |
| 07:04 | < afny> | two frames on a square with an obstacle interact differently than two frames on a square without, etc |
| 07:04 | < afny> | it changes the kind of hand you are dealt for that square of movement |
| 07:06 | < neoaez> | Hmm |
| 07:07 | < neoaez> | So you have multiple hands per roof where what we are doing is having each rooftop be a single contest for position. |
| 07:07 | < AnCarver> | See, to me, Rooftops was a way of mesuring Distance Ahead, where the DC would measure Distance To End |
| 07:07 | < neoaez> | I guess you could incorporate both. |
| 07:07 | < AnCarver> | So a DC mesures how long until the Rooftop position would be the final configuration |
| 07:08 | < afny> | I wasn't so particular as to have each square be a discrete rooftop |
| 07:08 | < afny> | but essentially, yeah |
| 07:08 | < afny> | I mean, I didn't have a concept of an individual rooftop at all |
| 07:08 | < afny> | there's just relative positionings and obstacles |
| 07:09 | < afny> | one type of obstacle is a gap |
| 07:09 | < afny> | but it occupies a square the same way an air conditioner or whatever would |
| 07:11 | < neoaez> | I'm trying to picture how you are handling positioning. How are obstacles introduced to the "board"? At the start or are they emergent in play? |
| 07:12 | < afny> | some at the start, some emergent |
| 07:12 | < afny> | there's just a small pool of obstacles |
| 07:12 | < AnCarver> | It sounds like you only model a part of the track at a time, and obstacles move down it while players move around on it |
| 07:12 | < afny> | I'm not entirely sure how you determine when they are placed |
| 07:12 | < afny> | but once they are placed |
| 07:12 | < afny> | they move a fixed distance (probably one square) in one direction every hand |
| 07:12 | < afny> | er, I should say |
| 07:12 | < afny> | every round |
| 07:13 | < afny> | because each square has a hand to resolve |
| 07:13 | < afny> | yeah, AnCarver's got it |
| 07:15 | < neoaez> | Ok. |
| 07:15 | < neoaez> | I'm going a little more abstract there. |
| 07:16 | < neoaez> | Basics: Each roof represents a single round, contest for position. |
| 07:17 | < neoaez> | You compete against the player immediately ahead of you or tied with you for position. |
| 07:17 | < neoaez> | Obstacles are introduced by other players. |
| 07:18 | < neoaez> | ..by the dice they decide to assign to their red dice. |
| 07:19 | < neoaez> | This can represent a dirty trick or distraction that prevents you from seeing or reacting appropriately to an obstacle (radar dish, ac unit, etc....) |
| 07:21 | < AnCarver> | Would they have the same variation as normal red dice? (Same roof/another roof/more than one roof away)? |
| 07:22 | < neoaez> | With each rooftop being a single round of play that abstracts several seconds of time spent jockeying for position, etc... how do you see that playing out? |
| 07:25 | < AnCarver> | Oh, I was imagining rooftops being zones, rather than rounds |
| 07:26 | < AnCarver> | Say you pass the check to the next roof, but your opponent doesnt |
| 07:26 | < AnCarver> | your on different rooftops now |
| 07:26 | < neoaez> | I see the disconnect. |
| 07:26 | < AnCarver> | You're 1 "zone" ahead |
| 07:26 | < neoaez> | I was dumping that part of the mechanic. |
| 07:27 | < neoaez> | Then you were competing against the track. Now you are competing against the other racers. |
| 07:27 | < AnCarver> | So... what's the point of winning earlier in the race? What does it get you? |
| 07:27 | < AnCarver> | Inintuitive, I guess... which does what? |
| 07:27 | < neoaez> | Control of the DC |
| 07:28 | < neoaez> | That's my gut reaction. |
| 07:28 | < AnCarver> | So there has to be some kind of round-to-round caryover of points, otherwise you can't know whether to count down the DC or not |
| 07:28 | < AnCarver> | How is that tracked? |
| 07:29 | < neoaez> | Good questions. |
| 07:31 | < AnCarver> | So, does this have a cascade inituitive score like Vanilla MF0? |
| 07:31 | < afny> | are you saying intuitive or initiative |
| 07:31 | < afny> | I was confused last time but now I'm more confused |
| 07:31 | < AnCarver> | the second one but with dyslexia |
| 07:31 | < afny> | ah okay |
| 07:31 | < afny> | because both sort of apply |
| 07:32 | < AnCarver> | they look the same to me unless I pay very close attention |
| 07:32 | < AnCarver> | and I didn't mean to write score |
| 07:32 | < AnCarver> | I should sleep soon |
| 07:32 | < neoaez> | Same |
| 07:32 | < afny> | so do you mean the intitiative |
| 07:32 | < AnCarver> | yes |
| 07:32 | < afny> | or like, the cascading |
| 07:32 | < afny> | frame activation |
| 07:33 | < AnCarver> | Yes, that thing |
| 07:33 | < afny> | they're not the same thing |
| 07:33 | < afny> | i'm not trying to be pedantic I'm just lost |
| 07:33 | < AnCarver> | I call that initiative because its how you determine the order. |
| 07:33 | < AnCarver> | Sorry, I'm tired and have never actually played MF0 |
| 07:33 | < afny> | well the initiative determines who INITIALLY starts |
| 07:33 | < afny> | but the cascade is based on attacks |
| 07:33 | < AnCarver> | Yeah, I see where I went wrong |
| 07:34 | < afny> | so they're like, related concepts |
| 07:34 | < afny> | but not the same, so that's why I was confused |
| 07:34 | < AnCarver> | which I crossed in my head |
| 07:34 | < afny> | yeah, it's easy to get them confused |
| 07:34 | < AnCarver> | I meant the cascading activation |
| 07:34 | < afny> | honestly until I played the game I had so many misconceptions |
| 07:34 | < afny> | kind of smacked my head after |
| 07:34 | < afny> | like I thought your asset value changed dynamically :\ |
| 07:35 | < AnCarver> | I've been reading about other people's, so I've saved myself a bunch of headache already |
| 07:35 | < afny> | I'm relatively sure mine has a similar cascade; every time a frame moves into a space with another frame, that hand is played out |
| 07:35 | < AnCarver> | but I think I've still got a few hidden away somewhere |
| 07:36 | < afny> | the problem is a lot of those games had misconceptions all over the place when they were chronicled |
| 07:36 | < afny> | at least some of the earlier ones in the battle reports |
| 07:36 | < afny> | dunno what it looks like now really, I haven't read that board in a while |
| 07:37 | < AnCarver> | The whole moving an inch away from stations thing really confused me until they sorted that out recently |
| 07:38 | < afny> | yeah, but to be fair that rule was confused as fuck |
| 07:38 | < afny> | and Joshua just kept making it MORE confusing as that thread unfolded |
| 07:38 | < AnCarver> | true that |
| 07:38 | < AnCarver> | I got to the post he made and went crazy for a little bit |
| 07:38 | < afny> | heh |
| 07:38 | < afny> | the natural response I think |
| 07:38 | < AnCarver> | until I managed to get it together and read the next page |
| 07:40 | < AnCarver> | neoaez: frame "weight" could impact inituitive scores, allowing lighter teams to move more quickly and take inituitive more easily |
| 07:40 | < AnCarver> | so systems per frame would matter |
| 07:40 | < AnCarver> | the trick is how to make that dynamic so initiative can change without exploding your opponenets frames |
| 07:40 | < neoaez> | I'm trying to work out how to resolve the die assignments |
| 07:41 | < AnCarver> | What's wrong with the way MF0 does it? You want there to be more guesswork? |
| 07:41 | | * neoaez stares at the mock rolls in front of him cross-eyed |
| 07:42 | < neoaez> | It can't be like MF0. At least not 1:1. |
| 07:42 | < neoaez> | Movement isn't in units. |
| 07:42 | < AnCarver> | Oh, I see what you mean |
| 07:42 | < AnCarver> | I thought you meant how the dice are assigned each turn, not the effect of the dice values |
| 07:42 | < neoaez> | An attack is basically jockeying for position; trying to force your opponent to react in a way that hinders them so you can move ahead. |
| 07:42 | < neoaez> | Ahh |
| 07:43 | < neoaez> | Yeah. Actually determining how the various assignments interact. |
| 07:43 | < neoaez> | I think I'll take a pic and look at it again in the morning. |
| 07:43 | < AnCarver> | Attacks are the additive element - spots, if you will |
| 07:43 | < neoaez> | This has been productive. |
| 07:43 | < neoaez> | Yeah. |
| 07:43 | < AnCarver> | in my mind anyways. |
| 07:44 | < AnCarver> | Yeah, sleep is good. I should probably get going too |
| 07:44 | < AnCarver> | Night, guys |
| 07:44 | < AnCarver> | good talking with you |
| 07:44 | < neoaez> | I'm stuck more on how speed plays into it; how cooling offsets your choice for speed; how situational awareness reduces the "attack" |
| 07:44 | < neoaez> | Night. |
| 07:47 | < afny> | night o/ |
| 07:49 | | neoaez is now known as neoaeZzzz |
| 07:51 | | AnCarver [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-8d9f9e3d.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 09:09 | | MoF0-3148 [gurddeilakq@Nightstar-407ca949.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 09:09 | | MoF0-3148 is now known as Malcolm |
| 09:10 | < Malcolm> | I think I might propose a new ground rule for the Hangar: you can only comment on the rules if you can provide signed witness statements that you've actually played the damn game at least once. |
| 09:26 | | Malcolm [gurddeilakq@Nightstar-407ca949.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 10:03 | | locas [locas@Nightstar-42c41d95.res.rr.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 10:03 | | afny [locas@Nightstar-42c41d95.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 10:03 | | locas is now known as afny |
| 10:07 | | MoF0-8097 [gurddeilakq@Nightstar-407ca949.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 10:07 | | MoF0-8097 is now known as Malcolm |
| 10:11 | < Malcolm> | That last comment was, it must be noted, not in any way related to the discussion of rooftop racing rules |
| 11:00 | | Malcolm [gurddeilakq@Nightstar-407ca949.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 12:31 | | afny [locas@Nightstar-42c41d95.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:15 | | AnCarver [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-8d9f9e3d.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 15:15 | | AnCarver [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-8d9f9e3d.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 16:48 | | Ced23Ric [me@Nightstar-3dc83196.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #mf0 |
| 16:48 | | mode/#mf0 [+o Ced23Ric] by ChanServ |
| 17:30 | | neoaeZzzz is now known as neoaez |
| 21:32 | | MoF0-8950 [gurddeilakq@Nightstar-407ca949.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 21:49 | | MoF0-8950 [gurddeilakq@Nightstar-407ca949.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| --- Log closed Mon Sep 03 23:42:18 2012 |
| --- Log opened Mon Sep 03 23:42:56 2012 |
| 23:42 | | TheShadow [theshadow@Nightstar-3762b576.co.uk] has joined #mf0 |
| 23:42 | | Irssi: #mf0: Total of 5 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal] |
| 23:42 | | mode/#mf0 [+o TheShadow] by ChanServ |
| 23:43 | | Irssi: Join to #mf0 was synced in 57 secs |
| --- Log closed Tue Sep 04 00:00:51 2012 |