| --- Log opened Wed May 09 00:00:44 2012 |
| 00:01 | < maoranma> | So Bricklink chat is down |
| 00:25 | | Ramcat [NSwebIRC@8E7DA3.C0AC6C.B1D767.63B516] has joined #mf0 |
| 00:25 | < Ramcat> | Hi all |
| 00:27 | < Ramcat> | Nobody here? |
| 00:28 | | Ramcat [NSwebIRC@8E7DA3.C0AC6C.B1D767.63B516] has quit [[NS] Quit: Page closed] |
| 00:39 | < Ced23Ric> | 3 minutes is hardly enoug htime to react. D: |
| 00:39 | < maoranma> | :\ |
| 00:39 | < maoranma> | Happens |
| 00:45 | < maoranma> | Gonna make a note on my first post to address that |
| 00:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, IRC = Idle Relay Chat. |
| 00:45 | < Ced23Ric> | :D |
| 00:45 | < Ced23Ric> | People don't know IRC. |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | It's like Twitter, but you can log out of it! |
| 00:49 | < maoranma> | Edited the post |
| 00:49 | < maoranma> | Might request it be stickied |
| 00:50 | < maoranma> | Twitter is one massive chatroom full of people talking about nothing |
| 00:50 | < maoranma> | We're most sophisticated, we have several chatrooms for that same purpose |
| 00:52 | < maoranma> | And, you really can't idle on Twitter. It's hard to give the illusion that you're there but not really~ |
| 00:52 | | maoranma is now known as Noah |
| 00:52 | | mode/#mf0 [+qo Noah Noah] by ChanServ |
| 01:35 | | MittenNinja [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-e9df5d72.co.comcast.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 01:36 | < MittenNinja> | whuddup fellas? |
| 01:36 | <@McMartin> | Beware, you live |
| 01:37 | <~Noah> | Heeeeeeey, it's MittenNinja |
| 01:38 | <~Noah> | MittenNinja: Gimme all of your Travis bricks. |
| 01:38 | < MittenNinja> | Sorry, they're all being used right now |
| 01:38 | < MittenNinja> | you can fight the frames for them though |
| 01:39 | <@McMartin> | ... "Box of Travis Bricks" - the ultimate Station |
| 01:40 | <~Noah> | More valuable than even giant peaches |
| 01:41 | < Ced23Ric> | Mittens! <3 |
| 01:41 | < Ced23Ric> | I realized the Iguanas use 10 Travis bricks. |
| 01:41 | < Ced23Ric> | So I ordered 60 today. Amd received 40 more in the mail today, too. |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | I need to try to build some Chibs. |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | I'm not sure if I have the tiles for it |
| 01:42 | <~Noah> | Chubs? |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | No, Chibs. |
| 01:43 | <@McMartin> | They're like Chubs but much smaller |
| 01:43 | <~Noah> | Chibs sound delicous |
| 01:43 | <~Noah> | Chibs and dib. |
| 01:43 | <@McMartin> | http://www.dukayn.net/MFZ/wp/WangTechMF-ST07Chibis.png |
| 01:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Those Chibbis are great. |
| 01:46 | <@McMartin> | I have a dire lack of pieces with clips though -_- |
| 01:46 | <@McMartin> | I like how the Yellow Ranger has a coffee mug |
| 01:46 | <~Noah> | I have exactly 3 |
| 01:47 | <~Noah> | More soon though |
| 01:47 | < Ced23Ric> | The yellow one is Mr. Chibs. |
| 01:48 | < Ced23Ric> | He wears loafers and is a WangTech PR employee. |
| 01:48 | < Ced23Ric> | As in, they shoot him. |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | I turn out to have known Mr. Wang from university |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | I've heard about Mr. Chibs but just by name |
| 01:58 | | * Noah glares at his orders summery page |
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| 02:00 | | mode/#mf0 [+qo Noah Noah] by ChanServ |
| 02:02 | < Ced23Ric> | McMartin: Mr. Chibs is probably one of the most hilarious things ever. |
| 02:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Randolph used him in a couple mock shots, and fuck, it's comedy gold. |
| 02:03 | <@McMartin> | Yellow was the "gets injured for humor value" color in Magicka, too |
| 02:03 | <@McMartin> | ISTR there was even an achievement for gratuitously blowing up the yellow player with a spell "backfire" |
| 02:04 | <@McMartin> | Backfire in scare quotes because Magicka's co-op play is Secret PvP |
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| 02:05 | | calculus [calculus@Nightstar-c8812005.vonfange.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 02:05 | < calculus> | Greetings! |
| 02:05 | < Ceddo> | Magica is fun. :D |
| 02:05 | < Ceddo> | Hello thar, Mr. von Fange. |
| 02:05 | <~Noah> | Hello calculus! |
| 02:06 | <~Noah> | Welcome to the IRCs!~ |
| 02:06 | < calculus> | Grets |
| 02:06 | < Ceddo> | Use ALL the networks! |
| 02:06 | < calculus> | *GREETS |
| 02:07 | < Ceddo> | Corrections are for those who have TIME. |
| 02:07 | | Ced23Ric [Ced@Nightstar-9b800b32.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:07 | < Ceddo> | So I wanted to meet that kid in that parking lot. |
| 02:07 | < Ceddo> | Just sayin'. |
| 02:07 | < Ceddo> | Internet tough guys are hilarious. |
| 02:07 | <~Noah> | heh |
| 02:07 | < Ceddo> | "OMFG YOU STOLERED MY LDRAW FILE WATCH ME MAKE A SCENE." |
| 02:08 | < Ceddo> | Smart. |
| 02:09 | < Ceddo> | But hey. |
| 02:10 | < Ceddo> | That's part of internet communities. |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Nightstar generally does a pretty good job of being quiet and dull |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Er, civilized |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Yes, that is the word |
| 02:11 | <~Noah> | http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7089/7134730721_69cba812fb_z.jpg - "Oh no, Mr. Chibs! You dropped your gun! What a pinch you're in!" |
| 02:11 | <~Noah> | I giggled |
| 02:12 | <~Noah> | Except in #nightstar_bar, where we often attack the channel bot Bawt. |
| 02:14 | <~Noah> | afk, son's bath then bed time |
| 02:14 | < Ceddo> | Noah: That was the first time Mr. Chibs got in trouble. Ever since, he became my fav reoccuring character. |
| 02:23 | <@McMartin> | So yes, I want a squad of hardsuits, if nothing else as practice making things that aren't completely ridiculous |
| 02:25 | <@McMartin> | Sadly, my plan of using minifig torsos to weld together frame parts didn't quite work |
| 02:28 | < Ceddo> | I tried many parts to make things smaller. |
| 02:29 | < Ceddo> | But hardsuits can't be taller than 10 plates, realistically. |
| 02:29 | < Ceddo> | My recommendation would be to look at the skeleton legs and work from there. |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | Well, the plan for the Remainder Rangers was to build them entirely out of unusable over-specialized parts |
| 02:29 | <@McMartin> | The Roffelth ended up being roughly frame-size, but they are also armed with frying pans and hot dogs |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/roffelth.jpg |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/roffelth2.jpg |
| 02:30 | <@McMartin> | The frying pan might be reasonably repurposable into a 2Y orbital strike beacon |
| 02:34 | < Ceddo> | Those look hideous, lol. :D |
| 02:34 | < Ceddo> | Also: I dare you to use a baguette. |
| 02:34 | <@McMartin> | I don't have a baguette =( |
| 02:35 | <@McMartin> | I have some Actual Terrible But At Least Worth A Shot ideas for frame hips involving locking hinges in place at non-right angles with crossbars |
| 02:35 | < Ceddo> | It's so 'tarded. It has no studs or niblets to attach anything. It's a simple ABS baguette. |
| 02:36 | <@McMartin> | I kind of just picked up bricks again for the first time in 20 years last week - I thought you meant "minifig-scaled loaf of bread" |
| 02:39 | <@McMartin> | After looking up ABS I'm no longer sure you don't |
| 02:40 | <@McMartin> | In which case I would have ABSOLUTELY fielded the Evil Chef company, mostly wielding baguettes |
| 02:40 | <@McMartin> | They would be well familiar with both the English and French meanings of 'pain' |
| 02:41 | < Ceddo> | There is a Lego baguette. :D |
| 02:41 | < Ceddo> | Lemme find it. |
| 02:42 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, yeah, those terrible frames I linked have two bricks that aren't things like "wheel well" or "bumper and headlight" combination pieces |
| 02:42 | <~Noah> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/roffelth2.jpg -> The one on the right, I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley if you know what I mean |
| 02:42 | < Ceddo> | http://www.bricklink.com/PL/4342.jpg |
| 02:42 | <@McMartin> | I may actually use the weenie-roast part of that set for use as a Station |
| 02:42 | <@McMartin> | Ceddo: Is that clippable? |
| 02:43 | < Ceddo> | McMartin: Those hotdogs have a rapey flavor with her creepy face. |
| 02:43 | < Ceddo> | McMartin: Nope. Not at all. No stubs or niblets. It's just a Lego ABS baguette in minifig scale, without any clips. |
| 02:43 | <~Noah> | http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?itemID=996&colorID=2 |
| 02:43 | <~Noah> | I can buy a real baggette for that |
| 02:44 | <@McMartin> | Ceddo: Fortunately, taking out their sensor system will decapitate the minifig! |
| 02:44 | <@McMartin> | D: |
| 02:44 | < Ceddo> | Noah: Lol, so true. |
| 02:44 | < Ceddo> | Who'd be like: "Well, DAMN. Wat I need now to finish this model is a baguette. If only Lego made one!" |
| 02:45 | <@McMartin> | "stub" and "niblet" are not terms I recognize; can you unpack those for a newb? |
| 02:45 | < Ceddo> | McMartin: Seriously, we're all stupid in the head here. But those hotdog wielding creepbots are too much. :D :D :D |
| 02:45 | < Ceddo> | *stud, I meant. |
| 02:45 | <@McMartin> | OK, stud I know |
| 02:45 | < Ceddo> | Basically, if you think of Lego attachment points as + and -, studs are the knobbins on top of a brick, basically, the plussies. |
| 02:46 | < Ceddo> | And niblets is what I call the inverted stud, the hole, or whatever you wanna call that. |
| 02:46 | <@McMartin> | The "D:" was for "right, because *decapitated* zombie centaur super mutants hunting you down with sausage-chucks makes it *so much better*" |
| 02:46 | < Ceddo> | I for one have no idea, which I ignore with a healthy dose of neologisms. Like niblet. |
| 02:46 | <@McMartin> | Got it |
| 02:46 | <@McMartin> | Let's see if I can rephrase my question, then: |
| 02:47 | <@McMartin> | "Can you take the baguette and get a minifig arm or clip to wield it?" |
| 02:47 | < Ceddo> | In German, I call studs "Nubsies" and niblets are "thingeys". I am eloquent. |
| 02:47 | < Ceddo> | Well, let me rephrase my answer, then. |
| 02:47 | | * McMartin would probably go with "socket" for niblet. |
| 02:48 | < Ceddo> | "No. No, you can't. I have no hutchin' clue why they bothered with that in the first place." |
| 02:48 | < Ceddo> | YOu are so smart. |
| 02:48 | < Ceddo> | My world has become better. |
| 02:48 | < Ceddo> | Stud and socket. |
| 02:48 | < Ceddo> | Aww yeha. |
| 02:48 | <~Noah> | heh |
| 02:49 | < Ceddo> | Well, do you use any programs to plan 'Frames? |
| 02:50 | < Ceddo> | I use LDD, because it makes for fast-and-easy approaches. It is limited because of some illegal connections that totally work in real life, but it's good for drafts. |
| 02:50 | < Ceddo> | When I build a new 'Frame, I do it in parts. |
| 02:51 | < Ceddo> | Legs, torso, cockpit, arms, usually in that secquence. |
| 02:53 | <~Noah> | I use LDD to, but I downloaded the Ldraw AIO installer today |
| 02:53 | <@McMartin> | It's vaguely on my list of things to check out |
| 02:53 | <@McMartin> | But I really want to play with the kits a little before trying to CAD since I think it will give me a better physical intuition for how stuff fits together |
| 02:54 | < Ceddo> | Actually, LDD is perfect for that. Because it only allows strictly working connections. |
| 02:54 | < Ceddo> | I planned all my stuff in LDD, then acquired parts. |
| 02:55 | < Ceddo> | Now? I know what parts I constantly need. |
| 02:56 | < Ceddo> | 1x1, 1x2, 1x3 plates in all colors, 1x1, 1x2 tiles in all colours, 1x1 slopes in all colors. That's armor and outer shell. |
| 02:56 | < Ceddo> | 1x1 brick /w 4studs; 2 studs; 1 stud, headlight bricks. Those are inner superstructure. |
| 02:56 | <~Noah> | Yea, LDD is good for posing and stuff too, but screenshots in it kind blow |
| 02:56 | < Ceddo> | 1x1 slopes, 1x1 plates, 1x1 round plates in translucent colors for cockpits. |
| 02:57 | < Ceddo> | 1x1 plates, modified with clips, lampholders and such for attachments. |
| 02:57 | < Ceddo> | 1x1 upward clips for short attachments. |
| 02:57 | <~Noah> | And everything with a hinge |
| 02:57 | < Ceddo> | Taps, nozzles and claws for angles. |
| 02:57 | <~Noah> | Also, a billion travis bricks |
| 02:58 | < Ceddo> | And pneumatic t-pieces for more intricate joints. |
| 02:58 | < Ceddo> | If you have that covered, the rest is playing around. |
| 02:58 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, I'm pretty underequipped for now |
| 02:59 | <@McMartin> | But I'd rather not go nuts with buying stuff until I know I'll have a use for it |
| 02:59 | <~Noah> | I used the garage from the kickstarter for a starting point |
| 03:00 | | * McMartin used The Two Sets That Were On Sale From Target as his starting point, which is not the most superb of moves. |
| 03:00 | <@McMartin> | Fun sets though :D |
| 03:00 | < Ceddo> | Heh, yah. |
| 03:00 | <@McMartin> | (Car&Caravan from City and Propeller Adventures from Creator) |
| 03:00 | < Ceddo> | Dude, for color-save applications, Lego architecture is usefull. |
| 03:00 | <~Noah> | Do you have the 1x4 slope curved bits? |
| 03:00 | < Ceddo> | Tons of the same brick, over and over again. |
| 03:01 | <~Noah> | those make neat legs for crawler types |
| 03:01 | < Ceddo> | Noah: I feel that they are too large to be used properly. A 1x2 plate with a 1x1 clip plate and a 1x1 slope makes for a smoother, more-to-scale crawler leg. |
| 03:02 | <~Noah> | They are a little large |
| 03:02 | < Ceddo> | I tried them as shinguards. |
| 03:02 | < Ceddo> | But they're pretty much taller than the entire leg assembly. |
| 03:02 | < Ceddo> | Unless you go for a stalky-crane leg style. |
| 03:04 | | MittenNinja [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-e9df5d72.co.comcast.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 03:04 | < MittenNinja> | ....and back |
| 03:04 | < MittenNinja> | that was weird |
| 03:04 | < MittenNinja> | the page was open but nothing was responding |
| 03:05 | <~Noah> | Ah, yea, that happens from time to time, particularly when I'm at school |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | Noah: I think I have a few |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | I also have some 1x10s that will only see use as terrain |
| 03:06 | <~Noah> | there are 2 other webchats at nightstar.net, you might try those |
| 03:06 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/01/jet_front.JPG <-- from the Prop Adventures kit, but is clearly not a prop |
| 03:06 | < Ceddo> | Mittens: You can try midbit, too. |
| 03:06 | < MittenNinja> | I really wish they made trans-blue levers |
| 03:06 | <~Noah> | Mibbit you mean? |
| 03:06 | < Ceddo> | Heh. Trans-light blue? |
| 03:06 | < MittenNinja> | sure |
| 03:07 | < Ceddo> | Noah: That, yes. |
| 03:07 | < MittenNinja> | trans-any blue would be better than no trans anything |
| 03:07 | <~Noah> | Mibbit isn't that great, because it acts as a proxy, so if two many people use it on the same server, issues can happen |
| 03:07 | < Ceddo> | Anyway, gentledudes, it's 04:07 am in Germania, and this guy is gonna crawl into bed. |
| 03:07 | < Ceddo> | You have a good night. I'll see you around. |
| 03:07 | <~Noah> | Ah, Gutten Nighten? |
| 03:07 | < Ceddo> | *Gute Nacht |
| 03:07 | < Ceddo> | :D |
| 03:07 | <~Noah> | lol |
| 03:07 | < MittenNinja> | later man |
| 03:08 | <@McMartin> | It's 19:07 here in Silicon Valley, I should do something about dinner |
| 03:08 | <~Noah> | I can do esperanto |
| 03:08 | <~Noah> | Bonan Vesperon! |
| 03:08 | < Ceddo> | I speak body language! |
| 03:08 | < Ceddo> | *waves and leaves* ;) |
| 03:08 | <@McMartin> | Heh |
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| 04:21 | <~Noah> | Lego needs to sell a small technical pieces box |
| 04:22 | <~Noah> | It's like half travis bricks and the rest hinges and plates and cheeses |
| 04:26 | <@McMartin> | Is Technic still a thing? |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | Aksi |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | Also |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | 20:32 < Randolph> MCM: let them know I have a photoset devoted to the adventures of Blasto and Mr. Chibs on flickr |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | http://www.flickr.com/photos/wangtech/sets/72157629975865053/ |
| 04:42 | <~Noah> | Where are you talking to these guys? lol |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | As I mentioned earlier; Randolph's an old friend from Uni, we learned about MFZ at about the same time |
| 04:49 | <~Noah> | Ah |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | So that's from IM, actually |
| 04:59 | <~Noah> | Yea, I gathered |
| 07:37 | <~Noah> | Wow, I'm tired early tonight |
| 07:37 | <~Noah> | guess I'll tuck it |
| 07:42 | <~Noah> | In rather |
| 08:06 | <@McMartin> | Woo, success. |
| 08:06 | | * McMartin manages to build a frame that isn't completely stupid. |
| 08:28 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/smrp_front.jpg |
| 08:30 | <@McMartin> | I'm thinking of bringing the legs in, mounting the hips against the central cavity, and then putting twin chain guns on new hardpoints on the side, instead of right under the cockpit where it stands now. |
| 09:39 | | * McMartin fiddles with some of the bigger airplane parts, gets something that looks kind of like \m/ |
| 09:39 | <@McMartin> | This requires further development, but soon I will be deploying a squadron of V-5 Metalhead GEVs. |
| 10:42 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/metalhead_01.jpg |
| 10:42 | <@McMartin> | Demonstrating both the Rock Out and Rock On positions. |
| 10:46 | | Reiver [Reiver@5B433A.F67240.562580.A14B7B] has joined #mf0 |
| 10:54 | | * TheShadow Reiverwaves |
| 10:56 | <@McMartin> | I'm not done with this series yet, but: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/firelizard.jpg and https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/smrp_02_adder.jpg are my two current best designs |
| 10:56 | <@McMartin> | The adder still needs some refinement |
| 10:57 | < Reiver> | Hiya TW |
| 10:57 | < Reiver> | You guys are trying to steal all my free time, curse you all~ |
| 11:01 | | * Reiver hrms, lacks any form of jumper plates with his current little pile. Really does want his legos from home, now... |
| 11:15 | < Reiver> | So is there a basic ruleset so far, beyond cool little models? |
| 11:15 | <@McMartin> | It's in beta and nominally currently only for the backers from Kickstarter |
| 11:15 | <@McMartin> | But yeah, the wiki should discuss rules and such. |
| 11:21 | < Reiver> | ... there was a kickstarter? |
| 11:21 | < Reiver> | maaaaan |
| 11:22 | < Reiver> | I m starting to hate those things. |
| 11:22 | < Reiver> | Because I keep hearing about totally awesome things /when it's too late/~ |
| 11:29 | | Noah [maoranma@Nightstar-0b54271b.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 11:45 | | Ced23Ric [Ced@Nightstar-0481df8f.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #mf0 |
| 11:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Boom! |
| 11:55 | <@McMartin> | Oh hey, people, while I'm insomniac |
| 11:55 | <@McMartin> | So I built frames |
| 11:55 | | Ced23Ric [Ced@Nightstar-0481df8f.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:02 | < Reiver> | McM: How long ago was the kickstarter? |
| 13:14 | <@TheShadow> | Not long, I think it closed last week, unless I'm losing days again (which is entirely likely) |
| 13:14 | | Reiver [Reiver@5B433A.F67240.562580.A14B7B] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 13:15 | | Reiver [Reiver@5B433A.F67240.562580.A14B7B] has joined #mf0 |
| 13:15 | < Reiver> | Sod. |
| 13:15 | <@TheShadow> | Did you get my reply? |
| 13:16 | | Ced23Ric [Ced@Nightstar-cbecdf18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 13:16 | < Ced23Ric> | I have returned. |
| 13:16 | < Reiver> | A full month, it looks like |
| 13:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Whee, people talking! |
| 13:16 | < Reiver> | two and a half thousand backers. |
| 13:16 | < Reiver> | Had I heard of it, I'd have been one of them~ |
| 13:16 | <@TheShadow> | Ah, yes, I could have like, looked at the kickstarter site >.> |
| 13:17 | < Ced23Ric> | Revised the company sheet again, added dice to the squares. |
| 13:17 | < Ced23Ric> | http://www.mobileframehangar.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1220 |
| 13:17 | <@TheShadow> | (I blame being up to my eyeballs in perl and meetings~) |
| 13:17 | < Ced23Ric> | Reiver: I wanted to back it, but amazon payments does not accept PayPal and my CC was empty when I found it ... two days before it was over. :/ |
| 13:18 | < Ced23Ric> | TS: Perl. Coding that looks like censored expletives. |
| 13:20 | <@TheShadow> | Not my perl ;P |
| 13:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah right. |
| 13:23 | < Ced23Ric> | You are just 50 plussies and some brackets away from really messed up brainfuck code. |
| 13:33 | | * ToxicFrog finally gets around to reading the rules, wonders how hard it would be to port to a hex grid |
| 13:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...who has a 40cm ruler? |
| 13:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, having read it, it looks like fun but it also looks like the turn ordering and initiative rules are complex enough that I'd want machine assistance. |
| 14:01 | | Ceddo [Ced@Nightstar-dc99092d.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 14:01 | < Ceddo> | See? That's what I said. |
| 14:01 | < Ceddo> | And they laughed at me for asking for a flow-chart. |
| 14:01 | < Ceddo> | Then someone made one. |
| 14:02 | < Ceddo> | And people were even more confused. |
| 14:02 | < Ceddo> | Turn order is simple, but it isn't at the same time. |
| 14:02 | < Ceddo> | Activation Phase - pick a 'Frame that goes. |
| 14:02 | < Ceddo> | Rolling Phase - roll all dice associated with the 'Frame you activated. |
| 14:02 | < Ceddo> | Targetting Phase - pick a target and a range. |
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| 14:06 | < Ceddo> | Opposing Activation Phase - Your target rolls it's dice pool. |
| 14:06 | < Ceddo> | Opposing Targetting Phase. Same as yours, doesn't have to shoot you, could lead to a domino effect kind of fight. |
| 14:07 | < Ceddo> | Once his shizlle is done, you decide to move or shoot. After that, you shoot or move, the sequence is interchangeable. |
| 14:08 | < Reiver> | A bit... odd. |
| 14:08 | < Reiver> | Is this based off another system, or entirely homebrewed? |
| 14:09 | < Ceddo> | It's based of Mechaton, which is practically MFZ version 1.0. :D |
| 14:09 | < Ceddo> | The turn squence is like so to ... equalize inititive a bit. |
| 14:09 | < Ceddo> | *initiative. |
| 14:09 | < Ceddo> | You are already at a massive advantage because you can force activations on your enemy. |
| 14:10 | < Ceddo> | For example, if I shoot your non-spotting 'Frames FIRST and your spotting 'Frames last, you won't get the benefit of spotting. |
| 14:10 | < Ceddo> | Now, if I could go an entire turn without interruption, I could decimate your company without any chance of you ever returning fire with some 'Frames. |
| 14:10 | < Ceddo> | The way it is in MFZ, attacks happen simultaneously. |
| 14:11 | < Ceddo> | Damage is dealt simultaneously, movements are made simultaneously. |
| 14:11 | < Ceddo> | So, if I rush you, you can at least shoot back, although I decide where we fight. |
| 14:11 | < Ceddo> | Initiative is just that: deciding where and when to fight. :) |
| 14:12 | < Reiver> | I see. |
| 14:12 | < Reiver> | As opposed to a you-move-I-shoot system? |
| 14:12 | < Ceddo> | Or I-move-and-shoot, then you go. |
| 14:13 | < Ceddo> | It's more like: I move and shot and you do the same. I just chose when and where. |
| 14:13 | < Reiver> | Yeah, /that/ version I can see having issues. |
| 14:13 | < Ceddo> | You cannot, like in WH40k, steamroll a unit. |
| 14:13 | < Ceddo> | I mean, in melee, WH40k fights back with Initiative. |
| 14:14 | < Ceddo> | But in ranged combat, a given unit can eradicare another one and/or break morale and send them fleeing with receiving a single shot of return fire. |
| 14:14 | < Reiver> | Indeed. |
| 14:14 | < Ceddo> | And if you pull of a drop-and-charge orchestrated with ranged fire, you can annihilate entire flanks in one turn. |
| 14:15 | < Reiver> | While Flames of War has a similar turn structure to 40k, but delineates who goes first as attacker vs defender |
| 14:15 | < Ceddo> | Space Marines /w Sternguards /w Combi-weapons in Droppods are a prime exampke. :D |
| 14:15 | < Reiver> | And defenders go second, but may start with any units they wish as Dug In. |
| 14:15 | < Ceddo> | Drop 10 Sternies, drop 10 flamer templates, mop up. Return fire: Not this turn. ;) |
| 14:17 | < Reiver> | (FoW shooting phase vs infantry: I roll to hit vs your difficulty [based on training+circumstantials]. You roll a save [3+ for infantry]. Remove failed saves... unless Dug In, at which point I have to pass a Firepower test for each.) |
| 14:17 | < Reiver> | (Small arms are Firepower 6+; 50cal is 5+, and a 75mm Shermans main gun is 75mm.) |
| 14:18 | < Reiver> | So getting to start Dug In is a pretty effective way of making infantry un-budgeabe. |
| 14:18 | < Reiver> | er, *un-budgeable |
| 14:18 | | * Reiver has no idea if that's a real word. |
| 14:19 | <@TheShadow> | doesn't need the hyphen, I believe. |
| 14:20 | < Reiver> | Ha, cheers |
| 14:21 | < Reiver> | Meanwhile, the ancient Grav War (I think? Been way, way too long) has simultaneous I-move-you-shoot rounds |
| 14:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | A flowchart would help, yeah. |
| 14:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now that the intent is explained it makes a bit more sense. |
| 14:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | But it still looks unwieldy. |
| 14:21 | < Reiver> | Which work out a bit like the old Overwatch rules in 40k used to. |
| 14:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hard to say for sure without actually playing it, but there's a reason I play Heroscape these days and not 40k. |
| 14:22 | < Reiver> | So I get to control movement, but you get to interrupt me to open fire at any point in that |
| 14:22 | < Reiver> | Ducking from cover to cover? Ha! We'll shoot you in between. |
| 14:22 | < Reiver> | ... then curse as you do it again with something even tastier, and we blew our actions prematurely. >_> |
| 14:22 | < Ceddo> | 40k, I love the fluff. |
| 14:22 | < Ceddo> | And the models. |
| 14:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I wonder how hard it would be to stat MFZ units as Heroscape units and port the spotting/reaction rules |
| 14:23 | < Ceddo> | I usually do a fair amount of customization. |
| 14:23 | < Ceddo> | But the game itself, ugh, I dunno. |
| 14:23 | < Reiver> | TF: Basic idea of how they run? |
| 14:23 | < Ceddo> | MFZ will be tons of fun. |
| 14:23 | < Ceddo> | But, gentledudes, mark my words: Spotting is everything. |
| 14:23 | < Reiver> | Ceddo: I always felt it'd do better as a small-scale minis game |
| 14:23 | < Ceddo> | Spotting guarantees damage. |
| 14:24 | < Reiver> | How does it work? |
| 14:24 | < Ceddo> | Like so: |
| 14:24 | < Ceddo> | You roll weapons dice, say 2d6 + 1d8. And you add 1d6 White because you wanna make sure it sticks. |
| 14:24 | < Ceddo> | Now you roll 3, 2, 5, 2. |
| 14:24 | < Ceddo> | Pick highest, which is 5. |
| 14:25 | < Ceddo> | And NOW you add spot. Say he has a spot of 3 on him. |
| 14:25 | < Ceddo> | Your attack now is 8. |
| 14:25 | < Ceddo> | So even if his Def is a whooping 6, which the max he can EVER have, you still get 2 damage rolls. |
| 14:26 | < Ceddo> | Even a spot of 1 can give you that one more damage roll. |
| 14:26 | < Ceddo> | Without spot, your average attack is 3.5 vs. 3.5 def. The more dice you have, the higher your statistical chance for something higher than 3.5 |
| 14:27 | < Ceddo> | But regardless, the max a weapon gets is 6, or 8 with an SSR or dual weapon system. |
| 14:27 | < Ceddo> | And the max a Def gets is 6, too. So Def can completely soak up regular weapons fire and 75% of d8, theoretically. |
| 14:27 | < Ceddo> | Spot blows Def out of the water. |
| 14:27 | < Ceddo> | It's key to making damage stick. |
| 14:28 | < Ceddo> | Because it's additive. And it's the only additive mechanic in the game. ;) |
| 14:29 | < Ceddo> | BRB, smoke break. |
| 14:29 | < Reiver> | Interesting. |
| 14:29 | < Reiver> | A little convoluted, but I get the intent. |
| 14:33 | < Reiver> | But now I must slep. |
| 14:34 | < Ceddo> | Sleep well, dude. Catch you later. :) |
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| 16:30 | < MittenNinja_> | heyo |
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| 16:38 | < Ceddo> | Gah, Mittens. |
| 16:38 | < Ceddo> | Ah! |
| 16:38 | < Ceddo> | Nevermind. |
| 16:38 | < Ceddo> | You returned. |
| 16:38 | < Ceddo> | So! |
| 16:38 | < Ceddo> | I need some feedback. |
| 16:39 | < Ceddo> | I am currently assembling some quick reference sheets, "Rules at a glance". |
| 16:39 | < Ceddo> | First page I am on is 'Frame constructions, systems and companies. |
| 16:39 | < Ceddo> | Second page, I thought of "Deployment". |
| 16:39 | < Ceddo> | Third page, Combat. |
| 16:40 | < MittenNinja_> | cool |
| 16:40 | < MittenNinja_> | that would probably come in very handy |
| 16:41 | < Ceddo> | Yeah, because right now, it's spread over tons of pages and/or forum posts. |
| 16:41 | < Ceddo> | And to have a quick reference would just help gameflow. |
| 16:41 | < Ceddo> | Lemme show you what I got so far. |
| 16:42 | < Ceddo> | http://www.ced23ric.de/stuff/mf0/raag_frame.png |
| 16:44 | < Ceddo> | Just did a test print, works fine. |
| 16:45 | < MittenNinja_> | Looks sweet man. The only thing I see is that I believe direct fire is 2-8 units, not 1-8 |
| 16:46 | < Ceddo> | Well, that's a misconception. |
| 16:46 | < Ceddo> | Say something is between 0 and 1 unit. |
| 16:46 | < Ceddo> | That's melee. |
| 16:46 | < Ceddo> | As soon as you are at 1.00000000000001, you are in DF range. |
| 16:46 | < Ceddo> | Up to 8.0 units. |
| 16:46 | < Ceddo> | Anything above 8.000000000001 ( ;) ) is artillery. |
| 16:47 | < Ceddo> | Otherwise, there'd be a gap from 1.1 to 1.9 units, which makes no sense. |
| 16:47 | < MittenNinja_> | "Direct fire range is from 2 ruler units out to the length of the ruler" |
| 16:47 | < MittenNinja_> | thats the exact quote from the rules that josh put out |
| 16:47 | < Ceddo> | Yupp, we talked about that in some forlorn topic. It's meant as "above 1 unit". |
| 16:47 | < MittenNinja_> | ah ok |
| 16:47 | < Ceddo> | Think about it this way. |
| 16:48 | < Ceddo> | 2 units includes every thing above 1. :D |
| 16:48 | < Ceddo> | It's 0++, 1++, 8++. |
| 16:48 | < MittenNinja_> | got it. I just remembered seeing something somewhere about there being a gap in the ranges |
| 16:48 | < MittenNinja_> | i could just be dillusional |
| 16:48 | < Ceddo> | So melee covers 1 unit in total, df covers 7 units, and arty covers everything above. |
| 16:49 | < Ceddo> | Yeah, it's worded in a really weird way, but if you think about it, you figure it out. That's the exact reason why I drew that ruler there. |
| 16:50 | < Ceddo> | By the way, holy hell, you love Travis bricks. :D |
| 16:50 | < Ceddo> | Also, I ordered two Brandenburg Gates. |
| 16:50 | < MittenNinja_> | SAND GREEN SLOPES |
| 16:50 | < Ceddo> | And six 18 slots sorting trays. |
| 16:50 | < Ceddo> | I KNOW RIGHT. |
| 16:50 | < Ceddo> | SO MANY. |
| 16:50 | < Ceddo> | And one Travis brick. :D |
| 16:51 | < MittenNinja_> | I still have a ton left over after two iguanas and the modified chub |
| 16:51 | < MittenNinja_> | i need more 1x2 tiles though |
| 16:51 | < Ceddo> | Yo! |
| 16:51 | < Ceddo> | I am curious whether I could borrow some Serpents from you. |
| 16:51 | < Ceddo> | And have the SU sic them on the Sliver from my background there. |
| 16:52 | < MittenNinja_> | for sure dude |
| 16:53 | < MittenNinja_> | they've got presence wherever the SU needs to get shit done and the UMFL and TTM aren't doing it |
| 16:53 | < MittenNinja_> | The "a-team" so to say |
| 16:56 | < Ceddo> | Gotcha. Sweet. |
| 16:56 | < Ceddo> | Mhmm. |
| 16:56 | < Ceddo> | Free reign to "invent" characters? |
| 16:57 | < Ceddo> | 'Cause, I do need pilots for 'dem 'Frames. :D |
| 16:59 | < MittenNinja_> | yeah, go for it. every division/lance/squad/whatever is named after some kind of snake/mythical serpent/reptile |
| 17:00 | < Ceddo> | Yah, I figured that part out. :D |
| 17:00 | < Ceddo> | Couatls should be fine, eh? |
| 17:00 | < Ceddo> | If not, I'll go with Rattlesnakes. |
| 17:01 | < MittenNinja_> | I've started working on a Rattler division but haven't gotten a whole lot put together yet, so go for it man, they're all you :) |
| 17:01 | < Ceddo> | Yay. Thanks. |
| 17:02 | < MittenNinja_> | no prob! |
| 17:02 | < Ceddo> | Alrightey. I'll add those to the Vesopia background some time tomorrow or tonight, depending on how far I get with these sheets. |
| 17:02 | < MittenNinja_> | cool. |
| 17:03 | < MittenNinja_> | The Fat snake chubs and iguanas make up the bulk of the Serpent Legion forces |
| 17:03 | < MittenNinja_> | squad commanders have some modified frames and custom work |
| 17:03 | < Ceddo> | Yeah, I really like the Iguanas. They have that very distinct "grunt" vibe. |
| 17:03 | < MittenNinja_> | and every once in a while a squad will get there hands on a field test prototype |
| 17:03 | < MittenNinja_> | absolutely |
| 17:04 | < Ceddo> | I built one from leftovers, and realized I need more Travis bricks. |
| 17:04 | < Ceddo> | So I ordered 120. |
| 17:04 | < MittenNinja_> | hahaha |
| 17:04 | < MittenNinja_> | damn! |
| 17:04 | < MittenNinja_> | so you could build 10 nagas with that |
| 17:04 | < Ceddo> | Well, I want to be able to field 3 factions, at least 6 'Frames per. |
| 17:04 | < Ceddo> | For demo games and such. |
| 17:04 | < MittenNinja_> | absolutely |
| 17:04 | < Ceddo> | So I need that many. |
| 17:04 | < MittenNinja_> | I'm working on getting one more completed for Denver Comic Con |
| 17:04 | < Ceddo> | I'll have about 160 by the time those arrive. |
| 17:05 | < Ceddo> | My local lego store offered me a spot at a convention, so I best get ready. :D |
| 17:05 | < MittenNinja_> | I've got the 31st OMU done, and Soren is going to be able to get my custom company to me before the con |
| 17:05 | < MittenNinja_> | NICE |
| 17:05 | < Ceddo> | What's he building up for ya? |
| 17:05 | < MittenNinja_> | He designed the fat snakes |
| 17:05 | < MittenNinja_> | and is putting together a few more guys |
| 17:06 | < MittenNinja_> | including some stealth/sniper chubs |
| 17:06 | < Ceddo> | Yah, I saw that. Getting a whole company? |
| 17:06 | < MittenNinja_> | yep |
| 17:06 | < Ceddo> | Also: You're gonna be BLEEDING in that PbP game. :D |
| 17:06 | < MittenNinja_> | we shall see :) |
| 17:06 | < Ceddo> | My suggestion is to shell the hell out of calculus' arty 'Frames. |
| 17:06 | < Ceddo> | He usually drops Spot first. |
| 17:06 | < MittenNinja_> | shell? no no no. get up in his face! |
| 17:07 | < MittenNinja_> | then all his arty wont be any good |
| 17:07 | < Ceddo> | And as soon as he lost his first spot, his 'Frames become A LOT less dangerous. |
| 17:07 | < Ceddo> | Dude, trust me. Those 4 arty spotters bring hell. |
| 17:07 | < MittenNinja_> | i can afford to lose my stations early and overpower him |
| 17:07 | < Ceddo> | Yeah, sure, do that. Make a run for his stuff and eat him up ASAP. |
| 17:07 | < MittenNinja_> | exactly |
| 17:07 | < Ceddo> | Then take his stuff and weather ferret's attack. |
| 17:08 | < Ceddo> | I'd race that DDC if I were you, too. |
| 17:08 | < Ceddo> | But if you have the option, fire at his double-spotters. Or your stuff runs around with -4 Def, permanently. |
| 17:09 | < MittenNinja_> | yep |
| 17:09 | < Ceddo> | Ironically, his split-range weapons are retardedly efficient, because he fuels them with d6W. |
| 17:09 | < Ceddo> | So you are looking at 3d6 arty, in all actuality. |
| 17:09 | < Ceddo> | And that, 4 times. Combined with 2d6 spot 4 times. |
| 17:09 | < MittenNinja_> | i'm gonna try and get my nagas up in his face and tear them up before he can do any real damage |
| 17:09 | < MittenNinja_> | yeah |
| 17:09 | < MittenNinja_> | his attack is brutally efficient |
| 17:09 | < Ceddo> | You are faaaar away, bro. |
| 17:10 | < MittenNinja_> | but his defense is almost non-exsistant |
| 17:10 | < MittenNinja_> | i havent placed 80% of my frames |
| 17:10 | < MittenNinja_> | and they can go anywhere :) |
| 17:10 | < Ceddo> | Get them close. |
| 17:10 | < Ceddo> | And eat him up. |
| 17:10 | < Ceddo> | His melee is d6W. |
| 17:10 | < MittenNinja_> | exactly |
| 17:10 | < Ceddo> | Without d6W he loses Def or Move. |
| 17:10 | < MittenNinja_> | yep |
| 17:10 | < Ceddo> | Move is even worse. As soon as your Nagas get into Melee, he's in hurtin' city. |
| 17:10 | < MittenNinja_> | only my spitting dragon doesn't have melee |
| 17:11 | < MittenNinja_> | and once i get up close and personal all my frames can start spotting his |
| 17:11 | < Ceddo> | I'd really run awy from ferret, eat up calculus and bet on the DDC running out before your losses are too high. :D |
| 17:11 | < MittenNinja_> | thats the idea! |
| 17:12 | < Ceddo> | But yeah. |
| 17:13 | < MittenNinja_> | Gah |
| 17:13 | < Ceddo> | Those A/DF.S.S.B 'Frames are vicious. They are pretty much long-range swarmers. |
| 17:13 | < MittenNinja_> | why are sand green headlight bricks so damn expensive? |
| 17:13 | < Ceddo> | Erryting sandgreen is. ^^ |
| 17:13 | < MittenNinja_> | some of the tiles aren't bad |
| 17:14 | < Ceddo> | Substitute with black and cover up with tiles and slopes. ^^ |
| 17:14 | < Ceddo> | Oh, oh! |
| 17:14 | < MittenNinja_> | and 1x1 round bricks are pretty cheap |
| 17:14 | < Ceddo> | I got my hands on some sand green decorated tiles. |
| 17:14 | < Ceddo> | It reads MMXXVVII or something. |
| 17:14 | < Ceddo> | I like those little details. :D |
| 17:14 | < MittenNinja_> | yeah i got some stickers that have sand green text on them |
| 17:14 | < MittenNinja_> | I used them for my iguanas |
| 17:15 | < MittenNinja_> | now they're numbered |
| 17:28 | < Ceddo> | Vairy nice. :D |
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| 20:03 | < Noah> | Hmm |
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| 20:06 | <~Noah> | There we are |
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| 20:13 | <~Noah> | AndChat, woo |
| 20:13 | <~Noah> | And Swype, God how I've missed Swype |
| 20:15 | <@McMartin> | For some reason I could never get Swype to work right for me. It plays poorly with my fingers. |
| 20:18 | <@McMartin> | Also, I'm pretty happy with how my GEVs came out |
| 20:19 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/metalhead_01.jpg |
| 20:19 | <@McMartin> | They don't look as much like a \m/ as they did in the first prototypes, but they do still have the "rock out" and "rock on" balance points. |
| 20:21 | <~Noah> | GEVs? |
| 20:21 | <@McMartin> | "Ground-Effect Vehicles." |
| 20:21 | | * McMartin is old, still remembers OGRE and GEV. |
| 20:22 | <@McMartin> | Combat hovercraft, basically |
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| 20:22 | <~Noah> | Shh |
| 20:22 | <~Noah> | Ahh rather |
| 20:23 | <@McMartin> | Failing that, I think they'd make great stations. |
| 20:23 | <~Noah> | Ben |
| 20:23 | <~Noah> | Brb rather. |
| 20:23 | <~Noah> | Gotta reteach Swype. |
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| 20:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Yo, yo. |
| 20:27 | <@McMartin> | Hey there |
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| 20:44 | < Ced23Ric> | *waves* |
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| 20:45 | <~Noah> | Swype still doesn't have Esperanto. |
| 20:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Doesn't it have Borka Borka Borka? |
| 20:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, no one seems to fancy my Quick Reference Sheet. |
| 20:46 | < Ced23Ric> | I hate the world and will commence self-flaggelation. |
| 20:46 | <~Noah> | Set yourself on fire? |
| 20:46 | < Ced23Ric> | It's included, yeah. |
| 20:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Probably some salt in the burn wounds while I am at it. |
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| 20:51 | <~Noah> | Might have to switch back to Swiftkey X instead, Swype is being buggy as all hell |
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| 20:53 | <~Noah> | What Quick Reference Sheet by the way? |
| 20:55 | < mchnzr> | Played my first round last night, didn't feel the need for any reference cards (but then we had pretty straightforward armies) |
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| 20:59 | <~Noah> | "Select to enable long press for all foreign language characters" except Esperanto. Thanks Swiftkey. |
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| 20:59 | <@McMartin> | Foreign means "native to somewhere else" >_> |
| 21:00 | <~Noah> | Hush you |
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| 21:17 | < Ced23Ric> | Noah. |
| 21:17 | < Ced23Ric> | First, I made this: http://www.ced23ric.de/stuff/mf0/companysheet.png |
| 21:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Just a sheet to quickly write down your company. Cross what's installed, strike out what's used up or destroyed. |
| 21:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Then, I started a series I call RAAG - Rules at a glance. |
| 21:18 | < Ced23Ric> | http://www.ced23ric.de/stuff/mf0/raagsheet_frames.png |
| 21:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Frames & Systems, Companies & Initiative and a range ruler. |
| 21:35 | <~Noah> | Neat! But what is the third six sided dice for on attacks? |
| 21:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Split-Range systems. |
| 21:36 | < Ced23Ric> | You can have 1 DF system, which gives you 2d6 DF. |
| 21:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Or you have 1 DF/Melee system, giving you 1d6 for each range. |
| 21:37 | < Ced23Ric> | And if you add a straight and a split system, you end up at 3d6 and 1d6. |
| 21:37 | <~Noah> | Gotcha, makes sense |
| 21:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. We actually saw a lot of split systems in early conception stages. |
| 21:38 | < Ced23Ric> | It just opens up so many possibilities. |
| 21:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Because, if you have 1d6 Arty/1d6 DF, you can fight at all ranges. |
| 21:38 | < Ced23Ric> | And with 3 slots open, you can grab spot, def and move, or double spot and def. |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | And use your 2d6 White to augment the firepower. |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Because, as long as an Arty/DF system is present, you can add your whites to the roll. |
| 21:39 | < Ced23Ric> | And suddenly, the 'Frame with 2x 0.5 weapon system has 3d6 at Arty and DF range .. |
| 21:40 | <~Noah> | Assuming you don't botch a defence dice |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | That's the beauty of White dice. |
| 21:40 | < Ced23Ric> | You assign them AFTER you rolled them. |
| 21:40 | <~Noah> | Stupid phone battery. |
| 21:40 | | mchnzr [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-23a4610e.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: Page closed] |
| 21:42 | <~Noah> | Right, I like the rolling all dice at once thing |
| 21:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, you always know what's up. |
| 21:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Got a 1 on Def, a 4 and a 5 on white, a 2 on Arty? |
| 21:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Put the 5 on Def and the 4 on arty. With a spot of 3, that's a 7 for attack. Gives 1 damage roll, worst case, and 7, best case. ;) |
| 21:44 | <@McMartin> | for basic expected value of max after N dice rolled, I did make a little page |
| 21:44 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz.html |
| 21:45 | <@McMartin> | Some of you may remember this from when I was sweating over scaling over in #code |
| 22:01 | < Ced23Ric> | Things that don't load: That link. |
| 22:02 | <@McMartin> | Works here |
| 22:02 | <@McMartin> | Has to be https though (??) |
| 22:02 | <@TheShadow> | Works for me, too |
| 22:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Nopers. I get a 404. |
| 22:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Maybe a country block. |
| 22:04 | <@TheShadow> | Forced a reload without cache? |
| 22:04 | < Ced23Ric> | Yupp. |
| 22:04 | < Ced23Ric> | I only get timeouts. |
| 22:04 | < Ced23Ric> | You could try a more ... public place than a university server. |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | I don't really have any of those |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | But, uh |
| 22:05 | <@TheShadow> | McM: want me to stick a copy on my server? |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | That's supposed to be a pretty darn public server |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | Like, it's also the same machine that does their industrial relations |
| 22:05 | <@McMartin> | TheShadow: Go ahead |
| 22:06 | <@TheShadow> | http://starforge.co.uk/media/mfz.html |
| 22:09 | < Ced23Ric> | Yay! |
| 22:09 | < Ced23Ric> | I have no idea what that's supposed to be for. :D |
| 22:09 | < Ced23Ric> | MFZ caps out at 5d6 and 4d8. |
| 22:10 | <@McMartin> | Mainly to severely stress-test the algorithm I was using to generate it, and to make sure I never got asked to run numbers for it again~ |
| 22:10 | <@McMartin> | And because it's a prettier box size at that point |
| 22:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh, okay. |
| 22:11 | < Ced23Ric> | But what's the relation? |
| 22:11 | <~Noah> | It's averages using those dice. So 2d6+d8 gives average of 4.9? |
| 22:11 | <@McMartin> | cross-index the d6 count and the d8 count; at the meeting point, that is the average maximum value. |
| 22:11 | <@McMartin> | Not the average value, but the average maximum |
| 22:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, but ... averages are so empty for MFZ. |
| 22:12 | <~Noah> | We're math nerds |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | It shows where diminishing returns come in |
| 22:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, I am, too. |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | Who should get rockets |
| 22:12 | < Ced23Ric> | At least, I am a number cruncher for gaming engines. |
| 22:12 | <~Noah> | McMartin: why you not use dropbox? |
| 22:12 | < Ced23Ric> | But there's the problem that you are relating empty values. |
| 22:13 | < Ced23Ric> | What you need to look at is Weapon Dice + Whites + Spots vs. Defense. |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | The big issue here was whether or not split systems were broken |
| 22:13 | < Ced23Ric> | And you will reallise that attack always wins. |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | That can be computed trivially from this base though |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | Because sums are easy to combine |
| 22:13 | < Ced23Ric> | But that's not the lesson. |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | maximum, however, is a Hell of a combinator. |
| 22:13 | < Ced23Ric> | The lesson is way, way simpler. |
| 22:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Drop a spot on the fucker and no def in the world will save him. |
| 22:15 | <~Noah> | Spot adds directly to attack, it's pretty rough |
| 22:15 | <@McMartin> | Sure |
| 22:15 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, it HURTs badly. |
| 22:15 | < Ced23Ric> | Because it's additive. |
| 22:15 | < Ced23Ric> | And it's the only additive mechanic in the game. |
| 22:15 | <~Noah> | It does, as they say, the enormous hurt. |
| 22:16 | < Ced23Ric> | With a shovel. |
| 22:16 | <@McMartin> | The initial question I was asked when analyzing this was "is 2d6 + 1d8 better than 4d6, and if so, how much" |
| 22:16 | <~Noah> | It might be broken :P |
| 22:16 | <@McMartin> | No, the question was "broken like Deadlands" |
| 22:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, 1d8 is better than 2d6 for one reason. |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Where a higher skill sometimes translates to a lower chance of success because White Wolf is Bad At Probability |
| 22:17 | < Ced23Ric> | Average of 2d6 is 7, but average maximum is 4.47. Average 1d8 is 4.5 |
| 22:17 | < Ced23Ric> | So 1d8 wins by a tee. |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Yes, that's exactly what I was computing in general. |
| 22:17 | < Ced23Ric> | BUT, and that's where 1d8 blows 2d6 out of the water ... |
| 22:17 | < Ced23Ric> | ... 1d8 has 7 and 8. |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Right. |
| 22:18 | < Ced23Ric> | 8 + 6 (from spot) = 14. Against a Def 0, that's 14 chances of 33% for damage. |
| 22:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Which results in a net average of 4.66 damage. |
| 22:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Which CRIPPLES even a healthy 'Frame. |
| 22:18 | <~Noah> | But 2d6+d8 has max average of 4.9 |
| 22:18 | < Ced23Ric> | Still adds 7 and 8 to the potential pool. |
| 22:18 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, variance matters |
| 22:18 | <~Noah> | Right right |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | But it's very clear that you're never intended to completely soak |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | But rockets make sure you don't. |
| 22:19 | < Ced23Ric> | Rockets are dirty. |
| 22:19 | < Ced23Ric> | And so underestimated. |
| 22:19 | < Ced23Ric> | Think of it - you have THREE of those. They don't count as weapons, so they still allow for d8G for movement. |
| 22:20 | < Ced23Ric> | So you can build a fast, armored spotter with 3x 1d8 shots. |
| 22:20 | <~Noah> | Can you fire more than one from the same frame? |
| 22:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Yupp, you can alphastrike. |
| 22:20 | <~Noah> | Ouch |
| 22:21 | < Ced23Ric> | The most committed attack possible is 5d6+4d8. |
| 22:21 | <@McMartin> | Ced23Ric: I'm thinking that would well-fit the fluff for my "Rabbit" frame. |
| 22:21 | < Ced23Ric> | Sorry, 4d6+4d8. |
| 22:21 | < Ced23Ric> | McMartin: We call that a Missile Monkey. |
| 22:21 | < Ced23Ric> | Spot Spot Armor Move, Bonus Move, 3x Rockets. |
| 22:21 | <@McMartin> | Both of those have *average* maxima of over 7. |
| 22:21 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, I'm building a company based on the Ijad finding an abandoned colony and trying to get something usable out of their leftover mining equipment |
| 22:21 | < Ced23Ric> | McMartin: Yeah, but you should back a shot like that up with spot. |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | McMartin: HEY. |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Wanna come visit? |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | Depends, how far away are you~ |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Because, I like, totally have a mining planet. :D |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Nah, I meant, fluff-wise. |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | Also trying to avoid too many Descent references |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Lemme give you a link. |
| 22:22 | < Ced23Ric> | http://www.mobileframehangar.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1003 |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | Guessing these also won't work for you, but I'm going to try to get Picasa going |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/firelizard.jpg |
| 22:23 | <@McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/mfz_proto/smrp_02_adder.jpg |
| 22:23 | < Ced23Ric> | There. Read up on the planets & starsystem, and on the Ijad. |
| 22:23 | < Ced23Ric> | Might be something for you. |
| 22:23 | < Ced23Ric> | Nope, no love. Boo. |
| 22:23 | <~Noah> | Those are neat. |
| 22:24 | <@McMartin> | Hmm, this is a slightly different setup |
| 22:24 | <@McMartin> | Catalyst IV will need to be a separate region |
| 22:24 | <~Noah> | But seriously, dropbox McMartin |
| 22:25 | <@McMartin> | More likely a civil war over whether or not to align with the Free Colonies |
| 22:25 | <@McMartin> | Vesopia *actually panned out* - Catalyst didn't. |
| 22:25 | < Ced23Ric> | Gotcha. |
| 22:25 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, Vesopia is pretty Ijadee. |
| 22:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Which is funny. |
| 22:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Because initially, I started with the SU as my chosen faction. |
| 22:26 | < Ced23Ric> | But the more I dwelled on it, the more I became endeared to the Ijad. |
| 22:27 | <~Noah> | I like the Ijad |
| 22:27 | < Ced23Ric> | You get awesome antennas! |
| 22:27 | < Ced23Ric> | How cool is that? |
| 22:28 | <~Noah> | I was thinking about the crawler style mecha |
| 22:28 | < Ced23Ric> | Monkeys steer those. :( |
| 22:29 | <~Noah> | I thought it was crabs |
| 22:29 | <~Noah> | They can bond to anything with a nervous system right? |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | Pretty much. But ... they are sentient. |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | They prefer other sentient beings. |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | Otherwise, they got bored. |
| 22:41 | < Ced23Ric> | The bond was once described as willing marriage. |
| 22:42 | <@McMartin> | The monkeybot connection to the firelizard and friends is actually coincidental |
| 22:42 | <@McMartin> | Those are humans piloting mining robots designed for impossible terrain. >_> |
| 22:43 | <@McMartin> | While also digging/burning new terrain to cross |
| 22:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Ugh, why did I start a story? |
| 22:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Now I feel the urge to continue but also have no idea how. |
| 22:44 | <@McMartin> | Brickblaster, Bane Of Fanfic |
| 22:49 | <~Noah> | Lol |
| 23:21 | < Ced23Ric> | Okay, did it. |
| --- Log closed Thu May 10 00:00:58 2012 |