| --- Log opened Sun Jul 10 00:00:00 2022 |
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| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | simon_: Belated, but Make is a very poor fit for javac because javac will do its own dependency tracking to some degree, so Make ends up paying a huge amount of cost that it "shouldn't need to" |
| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | You're better off with, as it seems you've been leaning towards, a simple "rebuild everything" shell script. |
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| 19:59 | < Alek> | https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/836408580944035881/995703346512023682/unknown.png |
| 21:03 | | * Emmy snorts |
| 21:03 | < Emmy> | good one |
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| 23:11 | < simon_> | I'm experimenting with adding cryptography to games |
| 23:12 | < simon_> | I'm trying to make a REST-based interface to a game where you've created the "user" offline |
| 23:14 | < simon_> | my idea was to take some object, e.g. {"pubkey":"...","name":"Bob",...something arbitrary...}, hash it iteratively by modifying the arbitrary part until you have a checksum that has the right difficulty, a la proof-of-work or DJB's internet mail 2000. |
| 23:15 | < simon_> | your identifier would be the hash and the object would prove that. and you can sign any action by using the corresponding private key. |
| 23:16 | < simon_> | then I'm thinking of a pokemon-style narrative where, if one part of the hash digest corresponds to a difficulty, another might correspond to which natural element it has, another what 24-bit rgb color it has. |
| 23:18 | <&McMartin> | If you want proof of authenticity you should just be using signatures. |
| 23:18 | <&McMartin> | "proof of work" is intentionally wasting resources to bad ends |
| 23:20 | < simon_> | I'm sure my text-based game will waste fewer resources than any 3D game. it takes ~2 minutes of hashing on one core to get a level 28 "pokemon" this way. :-D |
| 23:21 | < simon_> | I thought it would be interesting to "search" for creatures by repeated hashing. |
| 23:21 | < simon_> | because it's a thing you can do offline. |
| 23:21 | <&McMartin> | That's EVE skills |
| 23:21 | <&McMartin> | And "but it's decentralized" is tbh not a feature |
| 23:22 | < simon_> | EVE skills are time-based, no? |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | Of all the problems with MMOs, "moderation and balancing are possible" is not one of them |
| 23:22 | < simon_> | why is it not a feature? |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | Yes, my point is that if you have a central point of game state you can just check a timestamp once |
| 23:22 | < simon_> | I'm not aware of all the problems with MMOs. |
| 23:22 | < simon_> | right |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | leaving aside the reasonably well-attested claim that Ethereum exists because one of its founders was salty about nerfs to shamans in WoW |
| 23:23 | < simon_> | haha |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> | Schemes like the one you describe are clearly intended to make such nerfs impossible at the interaction level |
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| 23:31 | < simon_> | I suppose PoW doesn't create the right incentives; you'll be better at the game by letting your computer crunch more. |
| 23:34 | < simon_> | there is a game concept called Dark Forest where the fog-of-war is maintained by a zero-knowledge protocol. so you can have an adversarial environment where nobody knows everything. |
| 23:35 | < simon_> | I think that's kind of interesting because I've been following the youtuber FitMC who documents an anarchy minecraft server. there was a hack at one point that allowed perfect geolocation of all players, which eventually led to the discovery of all secret bases. |
| 23:36 | < simon_> | of course, it could also be circumvented through non-buggy network software; after all, minecraft is a giant duct tape ball. |
| 23:37 | < simon_> | but I like how a protocol ensures what information is shared, what isn't, and making guessing astronomically expensive. |
| --- Log closed Mon Jul 11 00:00:01 2022 |