| --- Log opened Tue Aug 03 00:00:49 2021 |
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| 01:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | If this is designed for deployment on shared hosting you may not even have a shell, let alone cron |
| 01:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | So this design makes sense in that context, in a kind of horrible way |
| 02:04 | <&[R]> | Yeah |
| 02:05 | <&[R]> | Or alternatively, expect the user to only ever use the webgui to setup the server and thus never know they have shell or cron access |
| 02:06 | <&[R]> | Thanks cPanel! |
| 02:06 | < Mahal> | If you need shell/cron access, using a server on shared hosting that doesn't give you those options is a stupid decision |
| 02:06 | | * [R] wonders if that bug where you don't need to know the admin username+pw to get admin level access to cPanel bug ever got fixed |
| 02:06 | < Mahal> | go pay for the thing that gives you what you want |
| 02:07 | <&[R]> | (cPanel devs closed the ticket reporting that as "not a bug" supposedly) |
| 02:07 | <&[R]> | But they're already paying for vBulletin, it's not like they're made of money |
| 02:08 | < Mahal> | I'm just old and cranky enough that I look at shit like this and go "either work with what you've got or pay for what you want. Good/fast/cheap, pick two, or sometimes just one, the end" |
| 02:08 | <&[R]> | lo |
| 02:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Mahal: the thing is, this is not a hack someone did to vbulletin so that they could deploy it on shell-less hosting, it's built in to vB. So the real question is why vB was designed this way, not why customers are deploying it on shared hosting. |
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| 02:14 | < Mahal> | I'm guessing it was probably designed that way to be deployed on shell-less hosting, tb |
| 02:14 | < Mahal> | tbh |
| 02:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | Right, but I mean, the end user should not, in principle, have to know about this terrifying hack |
| 02:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | As far as they're concerned, vB supports shared hosting, so either they already have shared hosting and they buy vB to run on it, or they buy vB and then opt for less expensive shared hosting because vB supports it |
| 02:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | So you can't really blame the users for "deploying something that needs shell/cron access on shared hosting that doesn't give them those options" because as far as they're concerned, the software they're deploying doesn't need shell access, that's the whole point |
| 02:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | So the question becomes why did the vB devs decide to support shared hosting and why, in particular, did they do it like this |
| 02:46 | <~Vornicus> | I know how wordpress does this, and that has some level of issues - it's basically anacron, it runs when somebody shows up, which for low traffic sites might make for bads |
| 02:47 | <~Vornicus> | this doesn't help much more, unfortunately |
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| 04:41 | | m4221 [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-9c8.bv5.98.172.IP] has joined #code |
| 04:41 | < m4221> | greetings again |
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| 05:05 | <&Reiver> | Impatient, isn't he? |
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| 06:13 | <&McMartin> | We are not here to dance for his entertainment |
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| 06:29 | < catalyst> | ah, we're human then |
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| 08:53 | <&Reiver> | McMartin: Given the bragging he made about the number of servers he's been banned from for trolling, he may well believe so! |
| 09:11 | <~Vornicus> | you're actually here for my entertainment |
| 09:13 | <&McMartin> | Iä rly'h |
| 09:17 | | * Reiver entertains Vorn by challenging him to come up with a ... what was the name of your spaceship again ... away team that got into a wee scuffle. |
| 09:18 | <&Reiver> | (I have no problem with the name of your spaceship. Except the bit that it is not easy to spell, and thus has a +5 Disengage to rolls vs Reivers Memory.) |
| 09:21 | <~Vornicus> | indlebe |
| 09:21 | <&Reiver> | ah yes that adds to it |
| 09:21 | <&Reiver> | Not only can I not spell it |
| 09:21 | <&Reiver> | I cannot pronounce it |
| 09:21 | <&Reiver> | That's a +15, that is~ |
| 09:23 | <~Vornicus> | hahaha |
| 09:47 | < catalyst> | in duh leeb |
| 09:49 | <@sshine> | https://i.imgur.com/gOM168b.png |
| 09:49 | <@sshine> | syntax error, unexpected 'carpentry' |
| 09:49 | <~Vornicus> | it put in the actual literal |
| 09:51 | < catalyst> | I hate it when woodwork gets in the way of coding |
| 09:52 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 09:52 | <~Vornicus> | it's xhosa. thankfully no clicks, so it's just "ind lay bay" |
| 09:53 | < catalyst> | in dull bee |
| 09:54 | < catalyst> | caw |
| 09:54 | < catalyst> | . |
| 09:54 | < catalyst> | fee |
| 10:01 | <&Reiver> | None of that means anything to me, but I appreciate the attempt |
| 10:02 | <@sshine> | catalyst, the silver lining was a bunch of jesus jokes. we've never had as appropriate humor during a meeting before. |
| 10:08 | < catalyst> | Reiver: I'm barely awake, I'm not sure what I'm saying means anything at all |
| 10:41 | <&Reiver> | catalyst: Oh! No, no, you were fine dear |
| 10:41 | <&Reiver> | I mean this pronouncing the consonant soup :) |
| 12:03 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 12:41 | <@sshine> | does anyone know of tools that let you run SQL queries in such a way that they get logged? |
| 12:42 | <@sshine> | we're trying to establish a better culture around manual access to production systems, without making debugging the live system a bureaucratic hell. |
| 12:43 | <&[R]> | You want the output logged too? This sounds like something that'd be super specific to each server |
| 12:44 | <@sshine> | basically a SQL client with an audit log would be a good start. |
| 12:54 | <@sshine> | for full migrations we've got a PR-based thing on GitHub. but sometimes people enter the production environment with a SQL prompt and run things, hoping they know what they're doing. (I think different people take different precautions, e.g. I always start with 'BEGIN TRANSACTION' and don't enter a 'COMMIT' line. |
| 12:55 | <@TheWatcher> | sshine: depends on your database server. For mysql, there is the query log https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/query-log.html postgres has settings for it too https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/runtime-config-logging.html but others I dunno |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, expect it to have performance implications, and generate shittons of data on any remotely well used system |
| 13:01 | <&Reiver> | Oracle can build it in from the start |
| 13:01 | <@sshine> | TheWatcher, ah. that looks like a starting point! I was hoping for something like a web-based SQL client that requires approval, logs, and differentiates between reading and writing. |
| 13:01 | <&Reiver> | There are tools available for MSSQL though I've never used them |
| 13:01 | <&Reiver> | TechnologyOne records every query executed, even if it doesn't actually run (which is hilarious) |
| 13:02 | <&Reiver> | But you really need to specify which flavor of system before you ask such questions |
| 13:03 | <@sshine> | right :) MySQL. |
| 13:03 | <@sshine> | via AWS RDS. |
| 13:04 | <&Reiver> | I don't know that one all that well, but there seem a lot of suggestions on the tune of https://tableplus.com/blog/2018/10/how-to-show-queries-log-in-mysql.html |
| 13:04 | <&Reiver> | So you may wish to look into it |
| 13:06 | <&Reiver> | Having permissions on who runs what is usually done on the user level, not the query level, but you can, eg, have accounts that can readonly and then have them have a different account to execute, but tbh I find this a bit cumbersome instead of 'only give DDL/DML permissions to people who can be trusted to know what they are typing' |
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| 14:08 | <@sshine> | Reiver, thanks! |
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| 14:09 | <@sshine> | Reiver, very valuable information. :) |
| 14:15 | <&Reiver> | You're welcome! |
| 14:15 | <&Reiver> | I may not be much of a coder, but I do claim a certain expertise in SQL. <g> |
| 15:00 | < catalyst> | squirrel!! |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | I prefer lua |
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| 18:39 | <@celticminstrel> | Clearly the solution is moon squirrels. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 04 00:00:50 2021 |