| --- Log opened Sat Mar 27 00:00:25 2021 |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | Windows IME: No later than XP |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | The question may also be different for "when did English-language versions of Windows get acceptable IME for logographic languages" |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | MS and Japan have a somewhat independent history compared to the rest of the world |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Like, they're the MS in "MSX" |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, in the late aughts I was doing business desktop application development and this included Chinese language support, and XPSP2 was a supported OS for it... |
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| 01:44 | <@celticminstrel> | This is getting annoying. Do I have to manually track down iosfwd to open it just so that Xcode can realize I don’t want to save whatever change has been made to it!? Is there really no way to force it to reset itself? Even quitting and destroying saved state and reopening doesn’t help… maybe there’s something in Library I can wipe… |
| 01:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Huh, there are 9 Unreal ini files in Preferences… I don’t even have 9 versions installed… |
| 01:46 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh huh, one for each project I’ve ever opened? Weird. |
| 01:47 | <@celticminstrel> | …wait, why is there a RenPy folder in my Library, I never installed RenPy on this computer… tho I think it was installed on the old one… |
| 01:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, deleting the project’s DerivedData folder worked. Phew. |
| 01:54 | <@celticminstrel> | …or not? |
| 02:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, it didn’t work after all… :( |
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| 20:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Huh, interesting blog post by the dev of AI War here: https://blog.arcengames.com/musings-upon-turning-38-ai-technological-advancement-and-what-ive-learned-in-my-career-so-far/ |
| 20:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | The interesting thing is the approach to multithreaded AI; different parts of the AI run on different threads and stream their results back to the "main" AI thread as they refine them. So it can spend quite a while, say, generating optimal targeting solutions in combat without worrying about tanking the framerate; if it takes a long time that just means the ships will be a bit |
| 20:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | uncoordinated for the first few shots. |
| 20:59 | < catalyst_> | that's weird, because I was thinking the same thing back in 2009 :d |
| 21:00 | < catalyst_> | the problem is the same that audio and physics and other systems have - graphics sucks up all the available computing power |
| 21:01 | < catalyst_> | it's not really a new take, it's been around since at least the 360/PS3 era |
| 21:02 | < catalyst_> | but it is interesting what you might be able to do if you can accept lower quality graphics and put that time into decision making or planning for AI modules |
| 21:02 | < catalyst_> | (which to be fair seems to be AI war's thing) |
| 21:02 | | catalyst_ is now known as catalyst |
| 21:03 | < catalyst> | the whole information blackboard/decision tree logic systems from back in 2009-10 were intended to built that system he's talking about |
| 21:03 | < catalyst> | build* |
| 21:03 | < catalyst> | you get async update of world state then the decision logic uses the most up to date info it has |
| 21:04 | < catalyst> | the other thing is that approach does result in some interesting behaviour... but not necessarily good gameplay |
| 21:04 | < catalyst> | well, thinking/implementing the same thing |
| 21:58 | <&Reiver> | An advantage here, of course, is that the AI is not meant to be replicating a human |
| 21:58 | <&Reiver> | So if it acts a little quirkily, it's more acceptable when the AI runs literally on its own rules |
| 21:58 | <&Reiver> | (Humans worry about resources, AI worries about Threat, etc) |
| 22:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiver: so, this applies both to the macro AIs (controlling the strategy of the non-player factions) and to the micro AIs (controlling movement and targeting for both AI and player-controlled units |
| 22:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | catalyst: I don't know how much of a graphics/AI tradeoff you have to make here; AIUI graphics mostly happen on the GPU these days, and what AIW does here is dedicate entire CPU cores to the AI subtasks |
| 22:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | The interesting thing here, at least to me as someone who has not spent a lot of time studying this stuff, is that as the game gets bigger it doesn't necessarily get slower -- neither rendering, nor physics, nor UI needs to be blocked on AI decision-making, and the AI doesn't need to be limited to returning all of its decisions within some limited amount of time. |
| 22:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | (this is also interesting somewhat as a contrast to the AI systems he was talking about ten years ago; AIW2's actual decision-making process is much more "traditional" than AIW1's, but coupled with the "take as much time as you need and stream intermediate results back to the main thread" approach, gives better results) |
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| 22:31 | < catalyst> | ToxicFrog: rendering still requires a large amount of CPU time, and other cores tend to be required for audio, physics, UI, gameplay, etc |
| 22:32 | < catalyst> | AI specific processing can easily get starved out/have a low budget, and in AAA games is often pushed out further by management wanting things to be more deterministic |
| 22:33 | < catalyst> | though I do predict we'll see more and more of it now that there's additional processor power available |
| 22:33 | < catalyst> | part of the problem of spreading calculations over multiple frames is that you don't get nearly as consistent performance and results on different machines |
| 22:34 | < catalyst> | you can easily end up making your game completely unplayable unless you're really careful |
| 22:34 | < catalyst> | not saying its not possible, just that this thinking isn't nearly so new an idea as that article you linked seemed to be implying ^^ |
| 23:07 | < Yossarian> | I wish AI was better |
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| --- Log closed Sun Mar 28 00:00:26 2021 |