| --- Log opened Tue Feb 02 00:00:21 2021 |
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| 14:06 | | * TheWatcher fingertappity at python |
| 14:07 | <~Vornicus> | uch organizing unit tests |
| 14:07 | <~Vornicus> | what's up? |
| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, writing a stock answer for some API interaction code, and just trying to decide the best way to handle !2xx messages |
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| 19:02 | | * abudhabi encounters a challenge. |
| 19:02 | < abudhabi> | For some reason, I can't put a column plot and a xy plot on the same graph in gnumeric. |
| 19:08 | < abudhabi> | I will prepare an example and submit it to the gnumeric bug tracker. I have had a positive experience last time - they fixed the bug I found pretty quickly. |
| 21:00 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Fucking hell, the Unity documentation |
| 21:16 | < catalyst> | the what now |
| 21:19 | <@TheWatcher> | The documentation for Unity. Which is a trainwreck. It's badly written, has examples that are just plain wrong, between different versions parts get shuffuled out into https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/ rather than https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/ or vice versa with no warning or indication of where it has gone, the search engine is shit, and google hits |
| 21:19 | <@TheWatcher> | invariably go to versions for 2018 that are now in different places |
| 21:22 | <@TheWatcher> | And then half the time you get part way through reading how to do something from their docs or tutorials only to find out that unity themselves have deprecated it in the editor (but not the docs...) and that the "correct" way to do it is in another castle |
| 21:22 | < catalyst> | that sounds exactly like what I expected |
| 21:22 | < catalyst> | also tracks with how Unreal works so good job with consistency |
| 21:23 | <~Vornicus> | so glad love2d does a better job of that |
| 21:24 | < catalyst> | ooh |
| 21:24 | < catalyst> | allegro is the last game engine I used that had good docs |
| 21:24 | < catalyst> | and that was back in 2004 |
| 21:24 | <~Vornicus> | I can only name one game that uses allegro |
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| 21:25 | < catalyst> | there's very few commercial releases, but it was very good as a learning tool |
| 21:25 | <~Vornicus> | Factorio |
| 21:25 | < catalyst> | wait, no way |
| 21:25 | < catalyst> | HOLY SHIT |
| 21:26 | < catalyst> | THAT'S AWESOME |
| 21:27 | <~Vornicus> | or did, they switched over to SDL eventually, looks like -- but this was over two years after first steam release |
| 21:27 | < catalyst> | https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-230 |
| 21:28 | < catalyst> | this has absolutely made my day!! |
| 21:28 | < catalyst> | thank you :D |
| 21:28 | <~Vornicus> | "We are obviously very good at it and encountered no problems whatsoever." |
| 21:28 | < catalyst> | genuinely the only time I've been giddy about meeting someone in industry was when a producer of mine said he'd worked with Shaun Hargreaves |
| 21:28 | < catalyst> | aaaaaaaa |
| 21:29 | <@TheWatcher> | (I mean, I probably shouldn't bitch too much - I'm not having to write my own bloody engine, but argh.) |
| 21:29 | <~Vornicus> | I cannot find this person, unless you mean Shaun Hargreaves Heap, a professor of political economy at king's college |
| 21:29 | < catalyst> | oh no please do bitch, game dev needs better docs |
| 21:30 | < catalyst> | Shaun Hargreaves was the original author of Allegro |
| 21:30 | < Mahal> | Shawn Hargreaves? |
| 21:30 | < catalyst> | Shawn maybe yes |
| 21:30 | < catalyst> | also XNA |
| 21:30 | <~Vornicus> | If it's not documented, it doesn't exist™ |
| 21:30 | < catalyst> | another good api |
| 21:30 | < Mahal> | currently at Dev lead on the Direct3D team at Microsoft |
| 21:30 | < Mahal> | sayeth the googles |
| 21:30 | < catalyst> | he's basically the only person on the planet I trust to create decent APIs |
| 21:31 | <~Vornicus> | if it's not tested, it doesn't work™ |
| 21:31 | < Mahal> | If you haven't tried to restore it, it's not backed up |
| 21:31 | < catalyst> | if it doesn't compile don't fucking commit it |
| 21:33 | < ErikMesoy> | I wish I could say "If it's not documented, it doesn't exist" on my current work task. :V |
| 21:33 | < catalyst> | on the subject of documentation - https://documentation.divio.com/introduction/ |
| 21:35 | < ErikMesoy> | My team is expected to generate Powerpoints for suits, on the basis of figures that we are expected to generate, on the basis of code we are expected to write and document, on the basis of a spec that is not only undocumented but in flux. |
| 21:35 | < ErikMesoy> | My manager is having daily meetings with the (ir)responsible people in several adjacent nodes asking pointed questions about who wants what. |
| 21:36 | < ErikMesoy> | They are having meetings with international counterparts haggling over the calculation methods of some things that will affect which country's agency has to pay which other country's agency. As you might imagine, a lot of these agencies prefer the calculation method most favorable to them. |
| 21:41 | | * gnolam reads up. |
| 21:41 | <@gnolam> | Whoa. |
| 21:42 | | * TheWatcher also eyes his manager scripts, decides he needs to refactor the crap out of this |
| 21:45 | < ErikMesoy> | The process also has a factor that probably has some nice buzzword name like "360-degree continual feedback" but I expect most here would know it as "mutual dependency" because there's at least one suit which has asked my manager if we can produce the PPTs a week ahead of schedule... |
| 21:46 | < ErikMesoy> | ...so that the suit can present the PPTs at one of the suit meetings as a /fait accompli/ for his preferred take on the spec, at a meeting whose function is partly supposed to be settling the spec for us to produce these PPTs to. |
| 21:48 | <&Reiver> | What he /really/ wants is not to do the math in advance |
| 21:48 | <&Reiver> | But to make shit up so he can point to it as f act and then, through the magic of bullshit, make the shit *become* fact |
| 21:48 | <&Reiver> | I do not envy you, Erik, but I know the feeling well. |
| 21:49 | < ErikMesoy> | Most parties involved here would like to have someone else do the math, I imagine. :D |
| 21:49 | <&Reiver> | I am reminded of the exciting occasion in which our Councillors were presented with three options to rectify a knotty legal problem in regards to infrastructural billing |
| 21:52 | <&Reiver> | Options included "Dig up vast amounts of pipes and reinstall them to work right; cost: $X00,000", "Install extra meters to measure the flow on the current mess, including smart meters so we need not enter private property to get readings, cost: $Y0,000", and "Hire external consultants at $2000/day for several weeks of collaboration as we reassign all project teams to completely rewrite internal systems to apply ad-hoc recalculations to the billing |
| 21:52 | <&Reiver> | engine which is a peice of legacy proprietary code due to previous years of technical debt... oh, sorry, you wrote this one down as 'Adjust billing processes to ensure equitable splits'? And you placed the budget at 'internal costs only'? I... see..." |
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| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | Man, Allegro |
| 22:33 | <&McMartin> | That is a name I have not heard in a very, very long time |
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| --- Log closed Wed Feb 03 00:00:22 2021 |