| --- Log opened Tue Nov 24 00:00:35 2020 |
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| 11:04 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 11:20 | <@sshine> | does anyone here use foreign key constraints in their relational schemas? |
| 11:20 | <@sshine> | so far, everywhere I've worked assumes that that's something you don't do. |
| 11:25 | <@sshine> | I am considering revising that stance. I think there's a line to be cut wrt. how many constraints derived from your business logic that get encoded into the database. |
| 11:25 | <@sshine> | I haven't had the personal experience to be wrong about using foreign key constraints. I'm sure people skip on them because they were a hassle at some point. |
| 11:25 | <@sshine> | I just wonder if they're a hassle worth having. :) |
| 11:25 | <@sshine> | like type systems. |
| 11:25 | <@TheWatcher> | I use them |
| 11:29 | <~Vorntastic> | I also use them |
| 11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | They are certainly useful, once you get used to them. |
| 11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | It took me a while, in no small part because I was arguably Doing Things Wrong. |
| 11:35 | <~Vorntastic> | If you're doing things right as far as queries go, you don't actually notice the fk constraints; but that just means that the fk constraints can help ensure you're getting the queries right |
| 11:36 | <~Vorntastic> | (also I know some major dbms didn't enforce them but I think they do now |
| 11:37 | <@sshine> | besides school, I mainly know foreign key constraints from cases where, if they had been there, the database would not have reached a screwed-up state. |
| 11:37 | <@sshine> | from doing job interviews recently, it occurs to me how different cultures people have. |
| 11:38 | <@sshine> | in one place the interview question is "so what's your preferred monadic effect system?" and in another place it is "yeah, types just seem like a giant hindrance to productivity." |
| 11:48 | <~Vorntastic> | Types and fks both work the same way here, preventing you from screwing up. I like types a lot but when I'm hacking at stuff, thinking about it can be problems -- but the languages I use with written types all have editor support for creating things that match types correctly |
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| 20:07 | <&Reiver> | FK constraints are useful and powerful, but as with much of DB design, they are a tool not a panacea |
| 20:07 | <&Reiver> | And not all situations can justify them. |
| 20:08 | <&Reiver> | But in the cases you're positive they're worthy, you might as well! |
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| 20:42 | <&jerith> | These days I'm satisfied with any db that doesn't store serialised data structures in text fields or grow at a rate of 30 GiB/day. |
| 20:42 | <&Reiver> | oh god |
| 20:42 | <&Reiver> | Yeah, you're not half wrong there |
| 20:42 | <&Reiver> | Then there's our current setup I work at |
| 20:43 | <&Reiver> | No foreign keys |
| 20:43 | <&Reiver> | Barely even primary keys |
| 20:43 | <&Reiver> | The thing is meant to be Cunningly Designed to allow Everything to connect to Everything |
| 20:43 | <&Reiver> | shoot me now |
| 20:43 | <&jerith> | Here's a C compiler, you can shoot your own damn foot.~ |
| 20:44 | <&jerith> | This week's ongoing disaster is a messaging system that we're using at a scale well beyond its designed limits. |
| 20:45 | <&jerith> | Last week's upgrade to it did... something. |
| 20:46 | <&jerith> | And now a couple of tables that store transient operational state are producing over a gig of churn garbage per hour on average. |
| 20:47 | <&Reiver> | oh lord |
| 20:47 | <&jerith> | Because of how the postgres MVCC model works, it fills up our db's disk with stale deleted rows. |
| 20:47 | <&Reiver> | oh my goodness |
| 20:47 | <&Reiver> | Can you not set it to be more aggressive in the purge? |
| 20:47 | <&jerith> | So now we're having to learn about monitoring and tuning the autovacuum system. |
| 20:48 | <&jerith> | Meanwhile, other work still needs to happen and other disasters haven't stopped and I have doctors to visit, etc. |
| 20:53 | <&jerith> | Anyway, I spent a chunk of this evening pasting pages of SQL I don't understand into psql so I could acquire incomprehensible numbers in order to see how they change when I run manual vacuums. |
| 21:08 | <&Reiver> | fun times >_< |
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| --- Log closed Wed Nov 25 00:00:36 2020 |