| --- Log opened Thu Oct 22 00:00:18 2020 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Oct 22 00:09:48 2020 |
| --- Log opened Thu Oct 22 00:10:24 2020 |
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| 13:07 | <@sshine> | first job interview where the CTO quiz me on monadic effect systems. yay. |
| 13:08 | <@sshine> | (as in, how do I prefer to overload the ; operator :-D) |
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| 13:28 | <@TheWatcher> | As someone who just codes in c/c++/c#/perl/php/javascript/other languages that use ; for statement end markers, the words "overload the ;" caused my brain to hit the panic button for a few minutes... |
| 13:46 | <@sshine> | haha |
| 13:46 | <@sshine> | yeah |
| 13:46 | <@sshine> | it's a joke |
| 13:46 | <@sshine> | but you know, that's what Haskell's do-notation does. :) |
| 13:46 | <@sshine> | do { r <- getRockets; armRockets r; fireRockets r } |
| 13:47 | <@sshine> | some friends at uni had the opportunity to interview Bjarne Stroustrup, and they only asked him stupid questions. "Why didn't you overload the ; operator?" was one of them. |
| 13:48 | <@sshine> | he was in on it. one of the best interviews I've seen. (it was in Danish, though, since Bjarne Stroustrup is originally from Denmark.) |
| 13:48 | <@sshine> | or rather... he wasn't informed, but he played along elegantly. |
| 13:48 | <@sshine> | dry humor |
| 14:02 | < catalyst> | I mean, you can overload , |
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| 15:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Mad Science^W^WC++ Is Decadent And Depraved |
| 15:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | (she says, quietly shoving a box full of (defmacro) under the desk with one foot) |
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| 15:24 | < catalyst> | C++ *is* decadent and depraved, macros are enlightened and uh, forbidden knowledge |
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| 20:18 | <@celticminstrel> | [Oct 22@08:47:54am] sshine: some friends at uni had the opportunity to interview Bjarne Stroustrup, and they only asked him stupid questions. "Why didn't you overload the ; operator?" was one of them. |
| 20:18 | <@celticminstrel> | Even if it's a stupid question tho, I really wanna know the answer… |
| 20:18 | <@celticminstrel> | Also aren't Lisp macros completely different from C++ macros |
| 20:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | They are, yes. |
| 20:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Lisp macros are basically a function that gets executed at compile time, taking an AST as their argument and returning a new AST which is then spliced in at the point where the macro was called. |
| 20:20 | <@celticminstrel> | Macros in UCB Logo IIRC are a function that doesn't have its own scope and runs in the scope of the caller, which sounds about the same as what you just said. |
| 20:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | At least in clojure macros have their own scope, but since their return value replaces the call site at compile time, whatever they return is of course in the same scope as the original call to the macro. |
| 20:24 | <@celticminstrel> | I can't remember if UCBLogo macros can contain OUTPUT statements… |
| 20:25 | < catalyst> | Lisp macros can be thought of as a sensible preprocessor |
| 20:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Clojure is a Lisp-on-JVM IIRC? |
| 20:25 | < catalyst> | yeah, though it has some opinionated ideas about data structures and concurrency |
| 20:25 | <@celticminstrel> | And I understand that UCBLogo is Lisp with optional brackets. |
| 20:26 | < catalyst> | (also in C++, semicolon is not an operator) |
| 20:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, I know. |
| 20:32 | < catalyst> | I'm interested what his response was too actually |
| 20:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Lisp-on-JVM primarily, yeah, though there's also JS and CLR targets for it,. |
| 20:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | And clojure macros can definitely contain I/O, for all your ascii art during compilation needs. |
| 20:35 | <@celticminstrel> | XD What |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | What's so surprising about that? |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | (I assume that's what OUTPUT does in ucblogo) |
| 20:36 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not. OUTPUT is a return statement. |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 20:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Clojure doesn't have `return`, the last evaluated expression in a form is its value |
| 20:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | But if it did, you'd be able to use it in a macro |
| 20:37 | <@celticminstrel> | The surprising thing is "ascii art during compilation". |
| 20:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes? Macros are executed at compile time, and you can call (println) in a macro, so... |
| 20:38 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess you could do ascii art in C/C++ too, tho it might be just a compiler extension. |
| 20:38 | <@celticminstrel> | I mean the warning directive. I think that's a GCC extension; IIRC on MSVC it'd be pragma message instead. |
| 20:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | http://ix.io/2BF7 |
| 20:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can even make them interactive :D |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 23 00:00:20 2020 |