| --- Log opened Sun May 24 00:00:26 2020 |
| 00:08 | <@gnolam> | A bit too true. |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | The modern vindication of the waterfall method is one of the grimmest parts of the modern era, especially since "waterfall development" was invented in the first place as a strawman to shit on |
| 00:11 | <&Joe> | I mean |
| 00:12 | <&Joe> | Agile/Scrum/Etc is a perfectly sensible approach - if nowadays a bit too Cargo Cult'd - to stuff where what you want to do is Come Up With A Cool Product From A Blank Sheet |
| 00:12 | <&Joe> | And Kanban is a perfectly sensible approach in helping trace capacity workloads etc |
| 00:12 | <&Joe> | But the problem is when people start thinking it's useful for everything |
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| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | I have no particular quarrel with OG Agile |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | But I also consider it more a shifting of perception on things that were already known at the time to be good practices |
| 00:16 | <&Reiver> | right |
| 00:16 | <&Reiver> | IME Agile development has worked often quite well with Analyst Developers |
| 00:16 | <&Reiver> | (ie people who build stuff for clientele as an Analyst, technically speaking) |
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| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | The OG Agile was open that they had made up waterfall as a model themselves, not to describe previous best practices, but to describe what went wrong if you failed to pay attention to the things Agile was (newly) placing front and center. |
| 00:17 | <&Reiver> | Where in they go and work out what the customer wants, throw together a prototype, show it to customer and see where they want it to go from there, until they are delighted with the final report/graph/form/whatever |
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| 00:17 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. Note that this model is also pretty close to the process that "hacking" describes when it's not h4xx0ring the Gibson |
| 00:18 | <&Reiver> | yup |
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| 01:19 | <@gnolam> | The biggest problem with Waterfall is that pretty much everyone *misinterpreted Waterfall*. |
| 01:20 | <@gnolam> | Including the people who actually adopted it. |
| 01:21 | <@gnolam> | So while much of the reaction against it is reacting to a strawman... many companies actually adopted the strawman. |
| 01:29 | <&Reiver> | Turns out definitions have power! |
| 01:35 | <&[R]> | Like how Xerox thought that Dilbert was a guide of how management to behave |
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| 08:47 | < Yossarian> | has anyone here ever had a mental block when it has come to writing code? |
| 08:47 | < Yossarian> | or they haven't written code in a decade and they find it hard to get back into it?: |
| 08:53 | <@macdjord> | Mental block mm\[]];\[ |
| 08:53 | <@macdjord> | \4 |
| 08:53 | <@macdjord> | 4 |
| 08:54 | <@macdjord> | Sorry, laptop froze mid-line |
| 08:55 | <@macdjord> | Yossarian: Mental block re: specif problem, yes, but never code in ggeneral. And the longest I've gone without coding would be about 18 months between jobs. |
| 08:55 | < Yossarian> | 12 years |
| 08:57 | <@macdjord> | Well, there's yer problem~ |
| 09:01 | < Yossarian> | Well I'm going to take some stimulant and nap for an hour |
| 09:01 | < Yossarian> | so I can go write in a language I've never written in before and please my friend |
| 09:01 | < Yossarian> | I realize most of the people in this channel don't like me and that's quite alright. |
| 09:01 | < Yossarian> | That is to say, I cannot blame them. |
| 09:02 | | * macdjord , for one, has no negative opinion of you |
| 09:12 | < Yossarian> | you guys are writing your neural networks and using opencv and such things |
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| 09:19 | < Yossarian> | or other very interesting things |
| 09:19 | < Yossarian> | I'm going to have a short nap |
| 09:25 | <~Vorntastic> | I find that knowing how to tell if my code is wrong it right is the easiest way to make sure I write it |
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| --- Log closed Mon May 25 00:00:27 2020 |