| --- Log opened Fri Jan 10 00:00:13 2020 |
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| 02:05 | | * McMartin also gets cranky about standard library C functions with more than 50 characters in their names |
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| 13:59 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: Thank you for pointing out that there are lambdas. |
| 14:10 | <@gnolam> | Hah! |
| 14:10 | <@gnolam> | It works! I can't believe it! And they said imitation identifiers weren't good enough... |
| 14:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | Now, what's the Java type signature of a lambda? This is probably the wrong question again. I'm trying to store all my lambdas in an array or ArrayList, and ArrayList<Lambda> is a syntax error, whereas ArrayList<Object> complains when I try to multiply a number by (item in arraylist)() saying that this is an Object no matter how many () I stick on the end. |
| 14:12 | | * gnolam successfully adds a translation layer to work around identifier and encoding limitations on a legacy back-end. |
| 14:13 | <@gnolam> | In a way that should be completely transparent and still maintain perfect backwards compatibility. |
| 14:13 | <@ErikMesoy> | Excellent. |
| 14:14 | <@gnolam> | ... or wait. Why do all these numbers look FUBAR? :-/ |
| 14:15 | <@gnolam> | Nevermind! |
| 14:15 | <@gnolam> | Phew. |
| 14:16 | <@gnolam> | The back-end was just set to display amounts in 1/48 metric ounces instead of ml. >_< |
| 14:18 | <@gnolam> | The units in this industry, man... |
| 14:20 | <@macdjord> | gnolam: .... no part of that unit is not weird. |
| 14:20 | <~Vorntastic> | Metric dashes |
| 14:21 | <@macdjord> | 'Ounce' - Bah, imperials/ |
| 14:21 | <@macdjord> | 'Metric ounce' - Err, what? |
| 14:22 | <@macdjord> | 1/48th - That's neither a power of 2 nor 10! |
| 14:26 | <@ErikMesoy> | But it is a highly composite number. |
| 14:35 | <@gnolam> | If a metrologist ever takes a look at this industry they'll probably be dangling from the nearest rafter before they have even managed to parsed the phrase "US imperial fluid ounce". |
| 14:35 | <@gnolam> | -d |
| 14:40 | <@gnolam> | Yes, another seeming contradiction that is apparently A Thing here. >_< |
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| 19:09 | <&McMartin> | http://distractionware.com/blog/2020/01/vvvvvv-is-now-open-source/ |
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| 19:11 | <&McMartin> | Note: It is not in fact open source |
| 19:12 | <@gnolam> | ? |
| 19:14 | <&McMartin> | There is a very detailed definition of "Open Source" that has been broadly accepted for over 20 years. The license he's using here doesn't meet that definition. |
| 19:17 | <&McMartin> | This is a usual place where, in my own experience over the last 18 years, game designers have priorities that differ from the open source community's. |
| 19:19 | <@gnolam> | Ah. The whole "GNU definition of 'free'" versus "everyone else's definition of 'free'" thing. |
| 19:20 | <@gnolam> | If the source code is public, it's open source. |
| 19:20 | <&McMartin> | No, on two points |
| 19:20 | <@gnolam> | It doesn't mean it's "free". But it is open source. |
| 19:20 | <&McMartin> | (a) It's the Debian Free Software Guidelines run through some corporate lawyers |
| 19:21 | <&McMartin> | (b) This license would not permit you to put code based on it on a LInux DVD or a magazine coverdisc without permission, nor would it let you toss bits of it a library into your own game. |
| 19:22 | <&McMartin> | The GNU definition of "free" does not include the MIT license. The MIT license is open source. |
| 19:27 | <&McMartin> | (b) in particular, for the ways that UQM is a mix of OSD-compliant nd non-OSD-compliant materials, has been a thing I've had to write probably a hundred emails about over the years, and I don't think I've found a single development community that really understands this. Even the ones like IF that produce a ton of both tend to only have occasional individuals that consistently get it right. |
| 19:27 | <&McMartin> | And, as noted, getting it wrong isn't "some zealots have a sad", it's generally "well, we were going to put you in our collection, but now we can't because you didn't let us" |
| 19:28 | <@gnolam> | Re: GNU free: I'm talking about the whole "claiming that GPL is a more 'free' license than zlib or public domain" thing, which is pure newspeak. |
| 19:28 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. I'm talking about "this license forbids commercial exploitation", which is past about 12 red lines and the first thing anyone asks for. |
| 19:29 | <&McMartin> | Because they don't think of selling a magazine that has a shareware coverdisc as "commercial exploitation" until someone they don't like does it. |
| 19:30 | <&McMartin> | As Nazi-punching has gotten more popular, the "No discrimination against classes of users or fields of endeavour" requirements for open source have started getting pushback too. |
| 19:30 | <&McMartin> | "I should be allowed to make my software self-destruct on anyone's computer if I discover they are Nazi" |
| 19:31 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, you said "if I discover", we heard "if the voices in your head decide", this is cause to abandon your work and make sure nothing of ours ever touches it |
| 19:37 | <&McMartin> | Also, because it was unclear due to the number of zealots around: game designers are *correct* to use licenses more like CC-BY-NC for their games, given the needs of that community. |
| 19:38 | <&McMartin> | But it results in something that is a very poor fit for what people use Actually Open-Source-Definition-Compliant stuff for, including they themselves, while they are making the games. |
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| 20:09 | <&McMartin> | Also, I see the title of the article has been edited to "VVVVVV's Source Code Is Now Public", which is entirely corect |
| 20:12 | <&Derakon> | I have discovered Redout, which is basically an F-Zero game. |
| 20:12 | <&Derakon> | It is also 80% off currently. |
| 20:13 | <&Derakon> | Man, I haven't felt an adrenaline rush like that in a long time. |
| 20:14 | <&Derakon> | So far the main difference it has vs. traditional F-Zero is that you can adjust your attitude at any time, and in particular want to do so when performing sudden changes in slope to avoid grinding on the road. |
| 20:15 | <&Derakon> | Also instead of having repair strips you drive into, you passively recover health if you can avoid bonking into things for long enough, and energy just recovers over time automatically. |
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| 21:39 | <&Derakon> | There, the most important airplane for the game: https://i.imgur.com/hVWtH0h.png |
| 21:47 | <&Derakon> | Oh my god this thing is adorable. https://i.imgur.com/RroSOgl.png |
| 21:52 | <&Derakon> | They're like little bumblebees. <3 https://i.imgur.com/PxEgq1V.mp4 |
| 21:53 | < Emmy> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_XF-85_Goblin You're welcome, if you did not know yet :P |
| 22:05 | <@gnolam> | Emmy: thanks |
| 22:29 | <&Derakon> | I love how the plane is about the same size as one of the smallest guns in the game. |
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| 23:20 | <&Derakon> | welp. Figured out why my computer was having problems. I never clicked the "stop streaming" button in OBS. |
| 23:20 | <&Derakon> | Your Stream Summary: Duration: 26h 48m |
| 23:20 | <&Derakon> | whoops |
| 23:20 | <&Derakon> | 0.4 average viewers |
| 23:48 | <@TheWatcher> | ooopa |
| 23:48 | <@TheWatcher> | *ooops even |
| --- Log closed Sat Jan 11 00:00:15 2020 |