| --- Log opened Sun Oct 06 00:00:17 2019 |
| 00:00 | <&McMartin> | ... Yeah, OK, no, you will be doing some High Energy Work there |
| 00:01 | <&McMartin> | A glass furnace is well above 1000 C |
| 00:04 | <@gnolam> | eBay, you have failed me again. |
| 00:05 | <@gnolam> | I can't find any quartz sphinxes, large or small. |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | ... going jackdaw-hunting, are we |
| 00:11 | <@gnolam> | Indeed. |
| 00:20 | < Emmy> | https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-concentrating-solar-tower-is-worth-its-salt-with-24-7-power/ |
| 00:21 | < Emmy> | 565C top. :( |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, OK. So at the moment we're looking at needing fossil fuels for this. |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | Maybe a future tech could use tricks like induction ranges, but I'm not at all sure you can get the vessels hot enough. |
| 00:22 | < Emmy> | nah, biomass is easily good enough |
| 00:23 | < Emmy> | after all, burning wood (charcoal) is how it's been done for ages before the advent of fossil fuels. |
| 00:24 | <&McMartin> | Oh right |
| 00:24 | | * McMartin has a consistent brainfart on charcoal vs actual coal |
| 00:25 | < Emmy> | induction is easily powerful enough |
| 00:26 | < Emmy> | afaik even the primary method in use nowadays? |
| 00:26 | < Emmy> | https://dw-inductionheater.com/induction-melting-glass.html |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | Oh neat! |
| 00:27 | <&McMartin> | I only actually learned about this technology at the consumer level, like, last month (the apartments around here aren't old, but they aren't exactly recently renovated) |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | It seems like it's been around in some form or another for like a hundred years |
| 00:28 | < Emmy> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_furnace |
| 00:28 | < Emmy> | anyway. naptime! |
| 00:28 | < Emmy> | way past naptime. it's almost half past one D: |
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| 00:31 | < Degi> | Hm you could use high borate glass, that melts at lower temperatures |
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| 02:16 | <@Alek> | how much manpower would you need to manually power an engine to get induction hot enough for glasswork, I wonder? |
| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | I'd probably rely on hydropower. |
| 02:24 | <&McMartin> | In other news, I have succeeded at doing a thing. |
| 02:24 | <&McMartin> | UQM is now running, hardware accelerated, directly on my RPi3's video core. No X11 required. |
| 03:09 | <@Alek> | hmm. hydropower might allow for cooling as well, at that. |
| 03:10 | <&McMartin> | ... well, actually, now that I mention it |
| 03:10 | <&McMartin> | I got the letter from my power company a couple days ago |
| 03:10 | <&McMartin> | I actually *do* rely on hydropower; it's apparently 56% of the electricity they're selling us. |
| 03:11 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile, in coding news, I've gotten UQM to compile and run on the RPi3 |
| 03:11 | <&McMartin> | ... and to do so without X11 or anything, just having SDL2 setup an accelerated graphics context at the console. |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | Somehow, however, x86 has been OK with us casting function pointers to obviously incompatible signatures with merely a warning, while on ARM that produces actually incorrect behavior |
| 03:12 | | * McMartin will need to fix that, but is unsure how any of this has ever worked. |
| 03:21 | <@Alek> | McM, whereabouts are you again? |
| 03:26 | <&McMartin> | Silicon Valley |
| 03:28 | <&McMartin> | But due to the nature of the teams I work with (mostly in Asia) I often keep extremely bizarre hours. |
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| 03:45 | <@Alek> | ah, would the hydro be all the way over from Hoover, or is there something else closer? |
| 03:46 | <&McMartin> | Probably the Hetch Hetchy project. |
| 03:46 | <&McMartin> | But maybe Oroville, I dunno. |
| 03:47 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 03:59 | < Yossarian> | If the Thinkpad T440p (14") model has socketed mobo it might be the best used laptop for the money and it is five years old |
| 04:07 | < Yossarian> | oh, the T440p allows for easier LCD replacement, uses eDP (embedded DisplayPort)... if models in the same range but smaller use eDP too, it would make some logical sense to try to wedge a high rez Retina panel from an iPad (10" max I think?) and then from various MacBooks. Pain in the butt, but if physical dimensions fit and backlight circuit is compatible you'll have the best display possible, |
| 04:07 | < Yossarian> | but a Retina panel is probably not the norm. |
| 04:07 | < Yossarian> | 1080p would be nice, though |
| 04:10 | < Yossarian> | sample: https://www.amazon.com/Kreplacement-Replacement-N140HCE-EN1-1920x1080-Non-Touch/dp/B075DD2356 1080 14.0" replacement, LED backlighting but uses PWM? doesn't say if it is IPS or TN but if it is IPS, that's a hella good deal. |
| 04:12 | < Yossarian> | "Supposedly, some sellers on Taobao are selling the Haswell CPUs (i7-4770HQ, 4780HQ) used in the 2015 Macbook Pro, soldered onto an LGA adapter board. This allows what are normally BGA CPUs to be installed into the T440p, granting Intel Iris Pro integrated graphics. It should be a notable boost over the GT 730M." |
| 04:12 | < Yossarian> | Wow, that's awesome if true but I never liked buying from sites like Taobao and such... |
| 04:13 | < Yossarian> | T430 will probably cost more to do the screen mod but the selection of processors will be easier to find on ebay |
| 04:30 | < Yossarian> | but the T440p your trackpoint has no buttons, that was an oversight; keyboard is the newer style too |
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| 05:58 | <@Alek> | https://i.imgur.com/wg830IL.jpg |
| 05:59 | < Yossarian> | I'm reading this paper about the procedural generation algorithm for this Atari 2600 game and my goodness, what a serious lack of hardware! |
| 06:04 | <&[R]> | Windows is bestest OS |
| 06:55 | <&McMartin> | The 2600 is pretty amazing for what it does with what it has. |
| 06:56 | <&McMartin> | And it was so unchained that it outcompeted its own successor... and its successor was doing stuff the NES couldn't match three years before the NES hit US shores. |
| 06:56 | <&McMartin> | (The NES is still better hardware overall, but the *specific* things the 5200 could do were not copied by later-generation systems.) |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | I wound up doing a full code walkthrough for creating a small 2600 game awhile back |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2018/08/20/atari-2600-powers-and-responsibilities/ |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | That then goes through another half-dozen posts or so, including taming its completely bonkers sprite positioning system |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | (basically there's a register and when you write to it that means "wherever the TV's CRT is pointed *right now* -- that's where I want you to put the sprite. So horizontal positioning is a matter of cycle counting out from HBLANK.) |
| 06:58 | <&McMartin> | (I derive a routine of under 32 bytes that takes an X coordinate and a sprite and puts the sprite there.) |
| 07:14 | < Yossarian> | Counting cycles to write the next frame correctly or else it blows up |
| 07:14 | < Yossarian> | might have explained Atari's corporate culture |
| 07:18 | < Yossarian> | but the 2600 used the 13 address line version of the 6502, the uh 6507? |
| 07:18 | < Yossarian> | and all polling, so again, ya gotta count cycles |
| 07:19 | < Yossarian> | what a pain, 2600 was slightly before my time, I was a widdle kid but it had its share of good games and stinkers |
| 07:19 | < Yossarian> | didn't they port Joust to 2600? how was it? |
| 07:28 | < Yossarian> | I might have played the NES port once or twice, can't remember. |
| 07:40 | <&McMartin> | The 2600 port plays well and is better than it really has any right to be |
| 07:40 | <&McMartin> | The 5200 port is more or less arcade perfect. |
| 07:40 | <&McMartin> | The 5200 port of Berzerk is better than arcade perfect. |
| 07:41 | <&McMartin> | (The 5200 is basically an Atari 800 without the keyboard and with a minimal RAM configuration and no BIOS.) |
| 07:41 | <&McMartin> | (Note that 'minimal RAM configuration' is still 8x the CPU-accessible RAM than what the NES had.) |
| 07:42 | <&McMartin> | Also, you generally counted scanlines to get to the next frame, and when you were doing real logic, you would set a hardware timer, do your frame logic, and then spinlock on the timer once you were done. |
| 07:42 | <&McMartin> | Even though VBLANK and VSYNC were indeed under software control |
| 07:42 | <&McMartin> | It really wasn't that hard to keep those smooth. |
| 07:44 | <&McMartin> | One of the really nice things, which I really missed when I went back to the C64 from the Atari, is that there's also a register that when you write it, it hard-syncs you to the HBLANK signal. the CPU halts until the exact moment the HBLANK begins. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | Also, unlike certain other systems (cough NES cough) each scanline is an exact number of CPU cycles long, and unlike, well, pretty much everything I've seen that's not in some sense a direct descendant of the 2600, the pixel counts also exactly fit into cpu counts too. |
| 08:11 | < Yossarian> | I tried coding again. The Fear got me. |
| 08:12 | < Yossarian> | I saw cout being left bitshifted hello world times and then I closed my editor. |
| 08:13 | < Yossarian> | Heh heh. |
| 08:40 | <&McMartin> | Maybe use a civilized language with print statements |
| 08:46 | <&[R]> | $ scp ~/Downloads/launcher.jar 10.255.0.171:jars/ |
| 08:46 | <&[R]> | scp: jars/: Is a directory |
| 08:46 | <&[R]> | Yes. Thank you. I know. Why did you not do as I asked? |
| 08:48 | <&McMartin> | ... that's a new one on me. |
| 08:48 | <&McMartin> | The other way around, and you need a -r. |
| 08:49 | <&McMartin> | Does jars/ not exist? |
| 08:51 | <&[R]> | It didn't |
| 08:51 | <&[R]> | jar is the directory I wanted |
| 08:51 | <&[R]> | Eitherway, that's an absolutely horrid error message for that case |
| 08:52 | <&McMartin> | Pretty sure it's just forwarding an unusually dumb errno |
| 08:52 | <&McMartin> | "I can't copy a file and transform it into a directory" |
| 08:52 | <&McMartin> | Flipside of trying to copy multiple items into something that is *not* a directory. |
| 08:53 | <&[R]> | That makes sense I guess |
| 08:55 | <&McMartin> | POSIX is all about making sense while being as unergonomic as humanly possible |
| 09:16 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 09:48 | < Yossarian> | https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/d0ht6l/has_emulation_preserved_anything_today_that_has/ |
| 09:50 | <&[R]> | https://old.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/d0ht6l/has_emulation_preserved_anything_today_that_has/ <-- fixed link |
| 10:15 | <&McMartin> | The MMO "Habitat", for the Commodore 64 run on the predecessor to AOL, is another case of a dead game that got resurrected later. |
| 10:18 | <&[R]> | MMOs are pretty commonly killed |
| 10:18 | <&[R]> | Tabula Rasa was screwed pretty hard |
| 10:39 | | * TheWatcher eyes his ~/projects directory properly for the first time in an age, finds bits of work on a Sentinel clone he'd completely forgotten he even started |
| 11:08 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-9p7hb1.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #code |
| 11:17 | <&jerith> | Yay! Through my big refactor and back to lots of little incremental things. |
| 11:58 | <&jeroud> | I still don't have tail-call optimization or continuations, but I now have the groundwork to implement them. |
| 11:59 | <&jeroud> | I also still need to do something about macro hygiene. My current implementation is quite naive and does no renaming. |
| 12:15 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 12:35 | | * Vorntastic examines. The best way to do the special casing here is actually... To ensure that if there's a double infinite, it's the last one in the hierarchy. This leaves only the topmost node to worry about; that node may need to get its index order swapped, once, to make sure that the first thing the searcher meets is on a side of the initial distant line that also has part of the actual triangulation |
| 13:03 | <@TheWatcher> | Obviously~ |
| 13:23 | | * Vorntastic is an elder horror. He talks to the void and wrangles with the infinite. Get over it. |
| 13:28 | <@Tamber> | Iä! Iä! Vorn fhtagn! |
| 13:30 | | * Emmy calls a young and old priest just to be certain |
| 13:33 | < ErikMesoy> | <Priest> This isn't a horror. This is just a minor heretic with delusions of grandeur. You should be calling a nun to slap him on the wrist. |
| 13:38 | | * Emmy sacrifices the priest to satan |
| 13:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Don't do that. |
| 13:57 | < Emmy> | why not? |
| 13:58 | <@Tamber> | too much paperwork |
| 13:58 | < Emmy> | isn't that what imp scribes are for? |
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| 21:59 | | * Alek remembers betaing Tabula Rasa fondly. |
| 22:00 | <@Alek> | It was the first MMO with shooting mechanics I played. |
| 22:01 | <@Alek> | I never even played a LAN shooter before then, and only GunZ after until I found Warframe. |
| 22:02 | <@Alek> | actually, I lie, I did play a TINY bit of some shooters in between, but just a taste here and there. |
| 22:03 | | * McMartin ponders |
| 22:03 | <@Alek> | but in MMO terms, only Tabula Rasa and Warframe, and they're extremely different. |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | I guess mine was Spiral Knights. |
| 22:03 | <@Alek> | does that even count as a shooter? the bullets there are VERY slow from what I recall. |
| 22:04 | <&McMartin> | I think it counts because you have to aim them and it's not just a ranged attack that rolls to-hit |
| 22:04 | <@Alek> | I should clarify, by shooting mechanics I meant FPS/TPS style aim-and-shoot |
| 22:04 | <@Alek> | mmm. good point. |
| 22:04 | <&McMartin> | It isn't over the shoulder |
| 22:04 | <@Alek> | even if it is more iso-style. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, a reason to exclude it would be "but that makes Diablo II count" |
| 22:05 | <@Alek> | I did mean aim-and-shoot, yes, although I wasn't thinking of that case but of see-and-shoot specifically. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | ... but then, that might be a reason to *include* Diablo II. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | I never played anything like what I think you mean pre-Warframe. |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | And Warframe didn't stick. I'm not cut out for MMOs after the Cities fell. |
| 22:06 | <@Alek> | stuff like Counterstrike counts, or would if it were massive. |
| 22:06 | <@Alek> | Battlefield does... >_> |
| 22:06 | <@Alek> | Cities? |
| 22:07 | <&McMartin> | of Heroes and Villains |
| 22:07 | <&McMartin> | If Battlefield does, the good Tribes games should |
| 22:07 | <@Alek> | ahh. yeah. there's a bunch of revival projects going on right now, in playable mode already, so. |
| 22:07 | <@Alek> | yeah, they should. I tried one for a bit. |
| 22:08 | < ErikMesoy> | City of Heroes: Homecoming is pretty good |
| 22:09 | <@Alek> | anyway, Warframe is more of a roguelike shooter, since you're limited to small squads, but you face hundreds to thousands of enemies, and they keep evolving. |
| 22:10 | <@Alek> | from the original corridor shooter they added wider, more open rooms; better movement mechanics (more ninja-like!); fighting in space!; and two open-world areas already (although we're still limited to squads of 4, with summonable allies). |
| 22:15 | <@Alek> | upcoming stuff includes starship combat with integration between starship, space, and corridor fighting (use your ship to take down opposing fleets, take wing to clear out enemies and board opposing ships, fight on enemy ships to aid the bigger battle); integration between open-world and starship combat; and at least one more open-world area, probably in the Void. |
| 22:31 | < Yossarian> | hmm? |
| 22:33 | < Yossarian> | warframe like "Warframe is a cooperative free-to-play third person online action game set in an evolving sci-fi world." |
| 22:34 | < Yossarian> | think there is a namespace collision here |
| 22:36 | < Yossarian> | oh MMOs, this is a long time-length convo, I like it |
| 22:37 | < Yossarian> | I rememeber The Realm Online and Merridian 59 |
| 22:38 | < Yossarian> | which is lucky for me, they are to my knowledge the first MMOs (that aren't MUDs) |
| 22:38 | < Yossarian> | I was angry about Sony's handling of Star Wars Galaxies |
| 22:39 | < Yossarian> | and people probably still play everquest... probably? |
| 22:40 | < Yossarian> | reaching stock end content in WoW after playing on release day with 3 characters and then the model of releasing battlegrounds and having special equipment you can only use in there if you keep your rank I was like "yeah what a gyp, wasted too much of my time" |
| 22:40 | < Yossarian> | stock, bone stock, from several days of beta to release date to level 60 was max. |
| 22:40 | < Yossarian> | anddd I have not played an MMO since |
| 22:45 | < Yossarian> | The Realm was a great intro, reverse engineered server would be interesting |
| 22:46 | < Yossarian> | got people dying equipment and ripping each other off and getting jumped in PVP zones and camping outside people's houses, good times |
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| 23:05 | <&[R]> | Knight Online and The Mana World are the only MMOs I've ever played |
| 23:34 | <@Reiv> | My first MMO shooter was Mechwarrior Online. |
| 23:34 | <@Reiv> | It is rather lovely. |
| 23:34 | <@Reiv> | Hope MW5 goes well enough to justify its existence going forward. |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | (Apparently the parent company is Betting It All on MW5, so it's both live or both die at this point) |
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| --- Log closed Mon Oct 07 00:00:18 2019 |