| --- Log opened Thu Mar 07 00:00:56 2019 |
| 00:02 | | Vornicus [Vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | Today in Things To Do With Windows 10 ARM Edition: https://twitter.com/imbushuo/status/1102013018207080449 |
| 00:18 | <@Alek> | nice |
| 00:19 | <&[R]> | Is that them running it on the RX? |
| 00:19 | <@Alek> | TW: actually, notepad++ isn't really a simple fix since there's regedit hacks to be done to make it replace notepad natively. |
| 00:19 | <&[R]> | Yup, it was |
| 00:24 | < Mahal> | telling Windows to use notepad++ as the default editor for sundry file types *is* a simple fix |
| 00:39 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:13 | | * Alek ponders a comp-sci rock band, writing songs about IT and technology. |
| 01:15 | <@Alek> | First album: Ramslot. Featuring the song "Du hast bit". |
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| 01:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Me: I think I will prototype some arduino stuff |
| 01:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | My cat: YOU HAVE A SOLID STATE COMPASS. GIVE IT TO ME. IT IS FOOD NOW. |
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| 02:23 | <&Reiver> | ToxicFrog: bahaha, that so figures >_> |
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| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | Vorntastic: So, here is the program I've been trying to adapt, in one of its forms: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g63h4d4qk6yhmnm/mandala_orig.png?dl=0 |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | This display has a great many things wrong with it, so this is my attempt to fix it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z45iwpwflceui3t/mandala_2.png?dl=0 |
| 05:23 | <~Vorntastic> | Love that the example doesn't tell you coordinate order |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | And then the other mode had less wrong with it but still needed its coordinates fixed, so this is that mode: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ys8ieoe88ow4cg/mandala_1.png?dl=0 |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | Though that one also has the problem that the player's pieces are at the *top*. |
| 05:41 | <&McMartin> | Vorntastic: Fortunately, it also never rejects moves as illegal |
| 05:41 | <&McMartin> | It just writes an empty square to wherever you say you moved from and writes your piece wherever you said you moved to |
| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | And gives you credit for a capture if it moved two squares |
| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | (and then empties out the square whose linear coordinates are the average of the two points, which will be the intervening square for a 2-2 move) |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | Part of this rehabilitation project will in fact be "actually have the program know the rules of the game" |
| 05:43 | <~Vorntastic> | Lol wut. |
| 05:45 | <&McMartin> | This book was published in 1982. Crossroads was published in 1987. |
| 05:46 | <&McMartin> | Considerable progress was made in editorial quality over those five years. |
| 05:46 | <&McMartin> | This isn't even the worst bug in the book |
| 05:47 | <&McMartin> | It's arguably not even the worst bug *in that program* |
| 05:49 | <&McMartin> | Since this at least was obviously a design decision made by the developer |
| 06:09 | <~Vorntastic> | Crossroads, that bonkers game I keep thinking about remaking |
| 06:26 | <~Vorntastic> | ? |
| 06:27 | <&McMartin> | yes |
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| 08:54 | <&McMartin> | This one was easier to rescue. https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2019/03/07/rescuing-a-zx81-type-in-program/ |
| 08:58 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 08:59 | <@macdjord> | McMartin: To be fair, an actual physical checkers board won't tell you that your move is illegal, either, and no one called that a bug. |
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| 09:00 | <&McMartin> | We had higher standards for computer-mediated board games even in 1982. |
| 09:00 | <&McMartin> | Even in 1978, really. |
| 09:01 | <&McMartin> | The Atari 2600's chess game could beat some home computers as well as enforce the rules, and it had 128 bytes of RAM to work in. |
| 09:21 | <~Vorntastic> | 128 bytes of RAM is ... Not much to work with for chess. I think absolute smallest size for the full game state is 33 bytes? |
| 09:24 | <~Vorntastic> | (1 nybble per cell, then you have 4 bits for castling rights, 1 bit for current player, and... Nope, out, I need 9 states for en passant rights) |
| 09:25 | <~Vorntastic> | (then repeated position checks against previous game states, and you need to be able to count to 100 for the no progress draw) |
| 09:26 | <~Vorntastic> | Oh. I suppose you can store en passant targets on the board, you have 12 normal pieces and an empty, so en passant can be #13 and #14 |
| 09:29 | < simon_> | the CEO of my company's first success story was building a chess AI that ended up in some chinese piece of hardware that still gets sold today. |
| 09:30 | <~Vorntastic> | Wild |
| 09:30 | < simon_> | he said he still gets $20-30k/year 30+ years after. |
| 09:31 | < simon_> | oh, and it also had 128 bytes of RAM :) |
| 09:31 | < simon_> | it seems like a very interesting challenge building a semi-competent chess AI with that many restrictions. |
| 09:35 | <~Vorntastic> | Actually, even better: I can also store whether each rook can castle as state on the board as well - since each square can only have one specific piece be special we need only one state for it. This puts the stale count into byte 33 and that's as small as it goes unless someone comes up with a compression. |
| 09:40 | <~Vorntastic> | ... and using the same value for both castle-state rooks and en passant targetable pawns of both colors means that we have 2 states remaining which we can use to mark turns by changing the king of the color whose turn it is, for instance, so technically we fit game state in 32 bytes exactly other than draw checkers |
| 09:42 | | * Vorntastic nerds too much |
| 09:42 | < ErikMesoy> | And draw checkers are kind of fake anyway. |
| 09:42 | <@TheWatcher> | https://www.xkcd.com/356/ in action here.... |
| 09:43 | <&McMartin> | I don't know if Video Chess had a draw checker |
| 09:43 | <&McMartin> | I did hear from Alan Alcorn that it beat the original Sargon though. |
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| 09:44 | < ErikMesoy> | There used to be a fifty-move rule on draws, then some smartass found a mate-in-more-than-fifty endgame position, so FIDE turned it into a hundred-move rule to account for those so that people weren't cheated out of a mate they were forcing but slowly. |
| 09:44 | < ErikMesoy> | Then some even smarter smartass found a mate-in-more-than-hundred endgame position. |
| 09:44 | <~Vorntastic> | Good Lord |
| 09:44 | < ErikMesoy> | At which point FIDE basically threw up their hands and said "you know what, fifty moves it is, screw your protracted endgame". |
| 09:45 | <&McMartin> | Man. 1978. |
| 09:45 | <&McMartin> | "Since magnetic media were not widely available at the time, the [Sargon] authors placed an advert in Byte magazine selling for $15 photocopied listings that would work in any Z80-based microcomputer." |
| 09:48 | <~Vorntastic> | Holy cats the record is 545 moves now |
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| 11:02 | < simon_> | "The typical use is to have an eventcounter in the cgi-scripts, whenever a event happens: |
| 11:04 | < simon_> | we don't have CGI scripts. we actually do have commit hooks that fail when there are typos in gettext translations. I wish the same applied to source code comments. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Mar 08 00:00:57 2019 |