| --- Log opened Wed Feb 27 00:00:45 2019 |
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| 02:28 | | * ToxicFrog ponders the Digispark. |
| 02:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's cute, but the fact that its two rows of headers are at right angles to each other makes it hard to breadboard. |
| 02:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | You have to either solder header sockets onto them and run wires for everything, or solder sockets to one row and pins to the other, plug the latter into the breadboard and run wires to the former. |
| 02:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or put two adjacent breadboards at right angles to each other and plug it in to both. |
| 02:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can of course simply plug an attiny directly into the breadboard, but if you want to use USB you then need to supply your own resistors, zener diodes, etc, and the spark conveniently has all those wired up already. |
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| 11:24 | <@abudhabi> | That feel when you need an old JRE installer for WinXP, but the official downloads require creating an account, so you google the filename and wind up downloading it from some random folder under Georgia Tech's Chemistry department. |
| 11:25 | <&[R]> | lol |
| 11:25 | <&[R]> | I hate downloading JRE/JDK so much |
| 11:28 | <&[R]> | One time I'm on hotel wifi, the shittiest possible hotel wifi, and one of my servers needed the JDK (forget why), so I'm asking in a channel for the direct link so I can just have the server download it directly. But this one guy's got a rat up his ass about it and is all like "you're trying to evade the EULA! Why should I help you do something you shouldn't be doing." I'm all "I've freaking agreed to the EULA, but I just need the freaking link so I'm not having |
| 11:28 | <&[R]> | to have this file hit my slow-ass wifi twice" and he just loops back agian |
| 11:28 | <&[R]> | MySQL's got similiar stupidiy |
| 11:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Horay, oracle! |
| 11:30 | <&[R]> | To be fair, downloading Java has been shitty as fuck since 1990 |
| 11:31 | <&[R]> | The whole JDK/JRE bullshit is beyond confusing to mortals |
| 11:31 | <@TheWatcher> | True |
| 11:34 | <&[R]> | And back in the 90s that was amplified, IIRC there was like 6 freaking editions |
| 11:35 | <@abudhabi> | Now I can finally play some Dwarf Fortress Adventurer Mode with Soundsense. |
| 11:40 | <@TheWatcher> | yay? |
| 11:42 | <@abudhabi> | It's a very nice utility. |
| 11:42 | <@abudhabi> | Adds action-based sounds. |
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| 13:14 | <@TheWatcher> | 'ullo cata |
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| 14:46 | < catalyst> | hi |
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| 19:20 | | * McMartin has trauma flashbacks to the JRE installer |
| 19:23 | <&McMartin> | Even in Cyberpunk future year 201X, it was relying on some desperate compatibility bullshit MS had to hack in for programs that insisted the world consisted only of 8.3 filenames |
| 19:23 | <&McMartin> | I had to hack a filesystem driver so that it would be able to have Java installed to it, because otherwise things would become their shortnames for real and everything would die |
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| 22:46 | <&[R]> | That's amazingly stupid |
| 22:47 | <&[R]> | Why would you not trust MS' ability to convert your long-names itself? |
| 22:47 | <&[R]> | I mean, they're not that bad at things |
| 22:48 | <~Vornicus> | iirc from what I read they don't trust anybody to render anything itself |
| 22:48 | <&[R]> | ? |
| 22:49 | <~Vornicus> | So java actually implements internally the L&F of various windowing systems |
| 22:50 | <&[R]> | TBF, nothing had anything consistient between windowing systems |
| 22:50 | <~Vornicus> | run java on a mac and it pops up a window? that window is not made with the mac widgets, it's made with lookalikes entirely within java |
| 22:51 | <@Reiv> | oh yes, that's right |
| 22:53 | <&McMartin> | [R]: Oh, it was |
| 22:53 | <&McMartin> | The bug was that the custom filesystem driver I was paid to maintain did not expect that somebody would rely on MS-DOS protocols for pretending to move files instead of actually moving files |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | And so did not do the necessary work to make that work |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | Story time! |
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| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | MS-DOS did not have a "move file" operation. So you couldn't do the atomic file update trick where you build a file and then move it over the target point. |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | Instead, you built the file, deleted the original, and then renamed it. |
| 22:55 | <&McMartin> | That's great, but you're MS-DOS, you think that file is named GARBO~1.EXE instead of ProperlyNamedFile.exe |
| 22:55 | <&McMartin> | So there's this insane compat layer inside NT called the "buffer cache" that notices if you've created a file with an 8.3 file name within a few milliseconds of deleting one with an identical short name |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | And if so, creates it with the long name of that old file instead. |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | This should not have been an issue for anyone not running like Win95 code on WinXP |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | Since it was supposed to fix software too old to know better about the existence of non-8.3 filenames and, you know, MoveFileEx. |
| 22:57 | <&McMartin> | ... The Java Installer in fact relied on the MS-DOS workflow working |
| 22:57 | <&McMartin> | So I had to tie our custom fs driver into the buffer cache to recreate this behavior |
| 23:05 | <&[R]> | Wasn't Windows the OS where the vendor had to make their own Java? |
| 23:06 | <&[R]> | That's what led them to make .NET? |
| 23:06 | <&[R]> | Java Runtime* |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | Oh man, this is politics of ages past |
| 23:07 | <&McMartin> | I am very confident that Sun made a JRE that ran on Windows, and Oracle certainly had many |
| 23:07 | <&McMartin> | MS wanted to make its own version of Java, but licensing forbade them from calling it that, so they called it J++. |
| 23:08 | <&McMartin> | .NET was... sort of an answer to Java after they realized ActiveX was answering the wrong question, and in a lot of ways C# and .NET are an evolution of its techniques |
| 23:08 | <&McMartin> | But both influenced one another over the years, and bluntly, both are at this point more Ada descendants than anything else. |
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| 23:23 | | * gnolam idly wonders if Oracle has discovered the task scheduler yet, or if they are still running a ridiculously huge program to check for JRE updates once a day. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Feb 28 00:00:47 2019 |