| --- Log opened Tue Feb 12 00:00:24 2019 |
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| 00:27 | < Degi> | Good night |
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| 17:37 | <@iospace> | "<NAME> has invited you to Phone screen with Intel" |
| 17:37 | <@iospace> | AFOSEHIFASOHFEASFAS |
| 17:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | Welp. Unity is apparently going public. |
| 17:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | RIP Unity. |
| 17:42 | <&McMartin> | It won't be peaceful |
| 17:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh, definitely not |
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| 22:41 | | * McMartin grargles |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | Oh right, this is iOS |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | It's not merely signals batshittery |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | But the BSD-specific non-POSIX extensions to it |
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| 23:02 | < Degi> | Going public? |
| 23:02 | < Degi> | Does that mean that it'll act to maximize the monetary gain of its shareholders instead of making a good product? |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | "maximize the expected monetary gain of its shareholders over the next two weeks" in particular. |
| 23:04 | < Degi> | Yeah right, over the short term |
| 23:04 | < Degi> | Not like capitalism is sustainable over the long term anyways... |
| 23:04 | <&McMartin> | Before I answer that statement I need to know what people think "capitalism" actually means |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | Since there's a lot of "it isn't capitalism unless you are hurting people and setting money on fire for literally no reason, or unless you are actively destroying value" |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | In which case we need to have a talk about feudalism |
| 23:05 | < Degi> | The stuff where rich people (the bourgeoisie) try to get even richer through the accumulation of capital, whilst poor people (the proletariat) need to work to live (and through that help in the accumulation of said capital) |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | This is also feudalism, and the only reason that it isn't socialism in the classic sense is that socialism sets "everything nonconsumer good of lasting value has already been produced" as a precondition |
| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | Which is also why we don't use that classic definition much anymore |
| 23:07 | <&McMartin> | "People need to work for a living" isn't capitalism, it's *scarcity* |
| 23:08 | < Degi> | I mean it sort of is a result of that |
| 23:08 | < Degi> | Some people think that if you die when you stop working, that you'll be motivated to work more at worse conditions in order to not to die |
| 23:09 | <&McMartin> | Right, so, subsistence farmers die if they don't work even if they have no society around them at all, so this is clearly incomplete |
| 23:09 | < Degi> | I meant this in the context of a capitalist society, not as the definition of capitalism |
| 23:10 | < Degi> | Like yeah, if you're having your own farm and only eat from that and some bad thing happens, well, RIP you |
| 23:11 | < Degi> | Like feudalism got upgraded to capitalism, since people want better living conditions |
| 23:13 | <&McMartin> | I'd add in "because you no longer need a knightly class to repel raiders" and "because you can no longer rely on hierarchical personal ties to get the population pointed in roughly the same direction past a certain point" |
| 23:17 | < Degi> | Stuff done to maximize profits is pretty much always gonna be worse than stuff done for best usability / maximum use for society |
| 23:18 | < Degi> | Like how windows sorta gets worse over time, whilst linux is nowadays very usable for everyday people |
| 23:19 | < Degi> | Although if backed by capital, stuff usually gets done faster, because people can invest more time into it etc. |
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| 23:20 | <&McMartin> | Linux has been corporate for a loooong time |
| 23:21 | <&McMartin> | To the point of "lack of corporate backing" being the stated reason for why Reiser4 isn't being added to the kernel |
| 23:21 | <&McMartin> | The corporations that back it are generally making their money by using it more than by charging others to use it, though, yes |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | That's going to get into an argument over whether one associates rentiers with feudal or capitalist organization |
| 23:22 | < Degi> | Yeah, they're developing it to use for themself |
| 23:22 | < Degi> | Not to sell a product and maximize profit off of it (although some companies sell distros IIRC) |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | Service contracts |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | That said, it is to sell a product |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | IBM is using Linux to sell mainframes. =P |
| 23:24 | < Degi> | I mean one could say that renting a more than 100 year old house for 7€/m²/month whilst barely upgrading it is a pretty capitalist idea... (They even want to raise that rent and that price is even considered cheap around here) |
| 23:24 | < Degi> | Hm yeah... |
| 23:25 | < Degi> | Well there is also the whole thing with android most of the time containing google apps which try to collect your data and probably use it to somehow make money |
| 23:27 | < Degi> | And then there's windows 10, of which I heard that you can't even turn off tracking options / they reenable themself, with google android you can tell google to stop tracking you (although how seriously they take it is another question) |
| 23:28 | < Degi> | Although I may not be well informed on the matter of privacy of various operating systems... |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | Pretty sure a privacy threat model require you to consider the userland at least as much |
| 23:32 | < Degi> | Enables everything like voice control and stuff Why are my search suggestions somehow related to what I've talked about? |
| 23:33 | < Degi> | Like one of my friends got "Arch Linux" show up in some suggestions (I think it was the phone keyboard autocorrect or so), despite them not typing that into their phone, we only talked about it... |
| 23:36 | < Degi> | Good night |
| 23:36 | <&McMartin> | It can conclude that in a wide variety of ways~ |
| 23:37 | <&McMartin> | I would not pick "it's spying on your microphone" as my first guess there |
| 23:37 | < Degi> | Hm what other ways are there? |
| 23:37 | < Degi> | Well, it was an apple phone |
| 23:37 | <&McMartin> | You can predict someone's writing styles by seeing who their friends retweet |
| 23:37 | <&McMartin> | You don't even need a corpus of their own work at all |
| 23:38 | <&McMartin> | So any kind of contact mining that comes out as a direct result of using the service with other people who are using the service is going to get you in a bucket that says "if this person says arch they mean the distro not the architecture or the compiler options" |
| 23:38 | < Degi> | He doesn't know my twitter (I'm not sure whether I've ever tweeted about arch there) neither wrote over that in IM services |
| 23:39 | <~Vornicus> | "You can predict someone's writing styles by seeing who their friends retweet" |
| 23:39 | <~Vornicus> | that is bonkers |
| 23:39 | <&McMartin> | The real lesson here is "people don't vary that much if you're looking at them as marketing targets" |
| 23:39 | <&McMartin> | Mail-order companies have a demonstrated track record of having their ad trackers detect pregnancies before the doctors did |
| 23:40 | < Degi> | I bet my laptop sends out arch linux radiation which adds that to every phones dictionary which is nearby. |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | if advertisers could correctly figure out how to target me I would be *happy*. the problem is they suck at it |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | they think I am... uh... a lawyer, with ulcerative colitis |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | oh, who is also involved in the trucking industry somehow |
| 23:42 | <&McMartin> | https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01/social-media-can-predict-what-youll-say-even-if-you-dont-participate/ |
| 23:42 | <&McMartin> | Found the article I was thinking of |
| 23:43 | <&McMartin> | Also https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/lack-of-twitter-geotags-cant-stop-researchers-from-getting-location/ which is from five years ago |
| --- Log closed Wed Feb 13 00:00:25 2019 |