| --- Log opened Tue May 22 00:00:28 2018 |
| 00:15 | <@iospace> | ToxicFrog: doing AVR devel? :P |
| 00:15 | <@iospace> | I can help! |
| 00:15 | <@iospace> | :D |
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| 00:33 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: Yes! The story so far: https://github.com/ToxicFrog/notforth/blob/master/builtins/demo.nf |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Next step is figuring out the ADC so I can read photoresistor values |
| 00:40 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure if that's "the story so far" and more "the last paragraph in that story" |
| 00:40 | <&McMartin> | iospace may have missed the part where you developed an entire programming environment from scratch for it |
| 00:41 | | * McMartin has been entertaining notions of having an AVR drive some ancient sound chip. |
| 00:41 | <@iospace> | :P |
| 00:41 | <@iospace> | ToxicFrog: what chip are you using, perchance? |
| 00:42 | <@TheWatcher> | Idly, have you folks seen http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11 ? |
| 00:42 | <&Derakon> | Etymology of "deprecate": https://i.imgur.com/8dOdWlb.jpg |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: In person! |
| 00:42 | <@iospace> | I see Derakon has been lurking a certain thread on Something Awful :V |
| 00:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: atmega328p as part of an arduino duemilanove |
| 00:42 | <@iospace> | alright |
| 00:42 | <&Derakon> | More than a few, io~ |
| 00:42 | <@iospace> | 10 bit I believe |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: They had a prototype running at Vintage Computer Fair West XII |
| 00:43 | <@iospace> | ToxicFrog: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-42735-8-bit-AVR-Microcontroller-ATmega328-328P_Datasheet.pdf |
| 00:43 | <@iospace> | ENJOY YOUR DATASHEEEEEEEEET |
| 00:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: yeah I already have the datasheet open |
| 00:43 | <@TheWatcher> | It looks great. Hilariously pointless, but great |
| 00:43 | <@iospace> | Derakon: who are you posting as? |
| 00:43 | <&Derakon> | Taking to PM. |
| 00:43 | <@iospace> | kk |
| 00:43 | <@TheWatcher> | But now, slep. |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | Some walls have stayed mostly up |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm just not hacking on it this moment; I spent the morning working on it, the afternoon hacking on drone control software and probably this evening reading |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: It's really hard to find sensible uses for the Pi that aren't Immense Overkill -_- |
| 00:44 | <@iospace> | I've written a basic i2c library for the 328p |
| 00:44 | <@iospace> | it works for simple byte read and writes |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I have two that I use as HTPCs and they're great for that |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: I don't think I have anything that talks I²C |
| 00:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | My current project is a resettable light-level-triggered alarm |
| 00:45 | <@iospace> | ah |
| 00:45 | <@iospace> | shouldn't be too hard |
| 00:45 | <@iospace> | if you were coding in C anyway |
| 00:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Right, but if you looked at the code you will see that I am not |
| 00:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | And that I am in fact writing the language and libraries I'm using at the same time as the actual project |
| 00:47 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: "HTPC" and "Dedicated simulation of some other much weaker computer" are the two main ones |
| 00:47 | <&McMartin> | As long as said "much weaker computer" doesn't have analog components (cough, C64, cough) |
| 00:49 | <&McMartin> | iospace: Have you done much with AVR assembly language? |
| 00:50 | <@iospace> | No |
| 00:50 | <&McMartin> | Ah well |
| 00:50 | <@iospace> | ToxicFrog: that's why I said anyway |
| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | If I were doing this project "properly" I'd be writing the whole thing in asm, but meh |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | C makes it easy to split off the parts that are AVR- or atmega238p-specific |
| 00:51 | | * McMartin kind of wants to fiddle with that a bit because a fellow retrodev guy pointed out that a lot of the AVR architecture turns out like the 6502 on steroids. |
| 00:51 | <&McMartin> | Or possibly "optimizing for how the 6502 ended up actually being used in practice" |
| 00:51 | <&McMartin> | Also the Fedora repos seem to include an AVR assembler written in LaTeX o_O |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | And since it's Harvard architecture you can't do the Typical Forth Thing of generating machine code on the fly anyways |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | wat |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | Er, wait, my mistake |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | Not an assembler. |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | An emulator. |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | texlive-avremu.noarch : An 8-Bit Microcontroller Simulator written in LaTeX |
| 00:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | wat |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | I do not pretend to explain; I merely observe. |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | The assembler seems to be a program named "avra" |
| 01:04 | | * McMartin calls up the official datasheets, including the one about how to do multiplication on the chips that lack the MUL and MULS instructions |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | ... there are actual flowcharts in this datasheet |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | I should implement the 16-bit xorshift PRNG for AVR |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | Though maybe not until after work. |
| 01:11 | <@iospace> | https://i.imgur.com/Q7XxDd2.jpg this is what i've been hacking together |
| 01:11 | <@iospace> | it needs some fixing of some sort but I have to diagnose the problem Dx |
| 01:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: compass |
| 01:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 01:12 | <@iospace> | yup! |
| 01:13 | <@iospace> | I2C magnetometer |
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| 01:17 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | Goodness, that's quite the tangle there in the middle |
| 01:31 | < Degi> | Wont a breadboard be better? |
| 01:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Degi: that is a breadboard though? |
| 01:33 | <~Vornicus> | Why is it not called a waffle |
| 01:34 | < Degi> | That thing with holes in it and copper on one side |
| 01:34 | <~Vornicus> | not "what", "that" |
| 01:34 | <~Vornicus> | that certainly looks like a waffle |
| 01:34 | < Degi> | Oh I mean a solder breadboard |
| 01:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...the whole point of modern solderless breadboards is that you don't need to constantly get the solding iron out while prototyping something |
| 01:39 | <&[R]> | Bash string substitution question: I have a string that could, in the middle of it, contain one of: 'any', 'i686', 'i486', 'x86_64'. Any means to extract that simply? |
| 01:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | The rest of the string is known? |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | echo "$string" | sed -E 's,^rest of string (.*) goes here,\1,' |
| 01:41 | <&[R]> | Yeah, I was hoping to not have to shell out |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm |
| 01:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | prefix/suffix stripping? |
| 01:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | ${${string#prefix to strip}%suffix to strip} |
| 01:45 | <&[R]> | That might work |
| 01:45 | <&[R]> | I had trouble nesting that before |
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| 01:47 | <&[R]> | Yeah... nesting is working |
| 01:47 | <&[R]> | [pkg@web12 ~/pkgs/sanction/acl]$ echo "${t%.pkg.tar.*}" |
| 01:47 | <&[R]> | acl-2.2.52-4-x86_64 |
| 01:47 | <&[R]> | [pkg@web12 ~/pkgs/sanction/acl]$ echo "${${t%.pkg.tar.*}#*-}" |
| 01:47 | <&[R]> | -bash: ${${t%.pkg.tar.*}#*-}: bad substitution |
| 01:48 | <&[R]> | Variable is $t right now |
| 01:49 | <&[R]> | I guess temporary variable it is |
| 01:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh right, you can nest those in zsh but not bash |
| 01:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | So yeah, temporary variable it is |
| 01:50 | <&[R]> | Ah interesting |
| 01:51 | <&[R]> | I'm expanding scripts that are written for bash |
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| 05:19 | <&[R]> | http://rpm5.org/ |
| 05:20 | | * [R] looks at bottom, becomes confused |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | ? |
| 05:26 | <&[R]> | So RPM is Red Hat's package management system |
| 05:26 | <&[R]> | Which is very much Linux |
| 05:26 | <&McMartin> | It mentions this on its main page, yes. |
| 05:27 | <&McMartin> | It also mentions which BSDs use it. |
| 05:27 | <&McMartin> | Also apparently latest press release was ten years ago |
| 05:27 | <&[R]> | But that site is running and powered by FreeBSD and OpenPKG. One of which is very much not Red Hat, doesn't use RPM and the other which is a competing system. |
| 05:28 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | Right, so, there are like eight things on the page that aren't Red Hat or a derivative thereof, so that's not a big deal |
| 05:28 | <&[R]> | Ah apparently OpenPKG is related |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | And as for the rest I'd say there isn't a requirement that everyone eat their own dogfood on everything they run at all times |
| 05:29 | <&[R]> | However, FreeBSD doesn't use RPMs by default, or if they do, they renamed everything. |
| 05:30 | <&McMartin> | Does it use openpkg? |
| 05:30 | <&[R]> | Not sure |
| 05:30 | <&[R]> | I never dug deep enough into it |
| 05:34 | <&[R]> | https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/linux-users/article.html |
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| 10:15 | <@ErikMesoy> | Grumble grumble grumble case-sensitivity in URLs and autocomplete |
| 10:38 | < Emmy> | agreed |
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| 17:55 | <&McMartin> | New Bumbershoot post, kind of rambly since I don't have a project right now: https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2018/05/22/to-dll-hell-and-back/ |
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| 18:25 | <@abudhabi_> | Hmm. I wonder why in all of these Linux guides, people use apt-get instead of aptitude. |
| 18:25 | <@abudhabi_> | Not installed as frequently? |
| 18:29 | <@abudhabi_> | [R]: No network manager installed. |
| 18:30 | <@TheWatcher> | And there was much rejoicing |
| 18:30 | <&[R]> | Good, it is crap anyways |
| 18:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi_: aptitude is a curses program. It's much easier to give someone reproduceable instructions with a command line tool. |
| 18:33 | <@abudhabi_> | ToxicFrog: Oh, you mean the graphical interface? The only use case I've found for it is to browse what packages are installed. |
| 18:33 | <@abudhabi_> | But it also has the same install command as apt-get. |
| 18:34 | <@abudhabi_> | 'sudo aptitude install foo' will work as well as 'sudo apt-get install foo' usually. |
| 18:34 | <@abudhabi_> | (I have seen boxes without aptitude installed, but I mostly kick around debianoids, so.) |
| 18:51 | <@abudhabi_> | How good an idea is having per-user web directories? |
| 18:51 | <@abudhabi_> | As opposed to just using the standard /var/www/html |
| 18:53 | <@abudhabi_> | Also, any way to make the shell act more 'normally' in response to special keys? I mean like up-arrow bringing up the previous command, tab completing the command being written, etc. |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | If you're a GPL program, readline does this |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | If you aren't, there are much smaller rough equivalents |
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| 19:05 | <@abudhabi_> | McMartin: readline is apparently installed. |
| 19:06 | <@abudhabi_> | Yet I'm given "^[[A" in response to up-arrow, and a tabulator in response to Tab. Which is not surprising in a text editor, but in command line, I want completion! |
| 19:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi_: what shell are you using? What's the value of $TERM? |
| 19:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Does your system require terminfo definitions to be installed as a separate package, and if so, have they been installed? |
| 19:13 | <@abudhabi_> | ToxicFrog: TERM=xterm SHELL=/bin/sh |
| 19:13 | <@abudhabi_> | To your other question, I have no idea. |
| 19:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | Do you have bash installed, and if so, can you start bash and see if it works there? |
| 19:15 | <&[R]> | xterm's termcap is shipped with ncurses |
| 19:17 | < Emmy> | hah, my project is shipped with curses as well |
| 19:17 | <@abudhabi_> | ToxicFrog: Hey, that worked! Bash exists and works. How do I set it as default? |
| 19:17 | < Emmy> | :P |
| 19:20 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi_: `usermod -s /bin/bash <youruser>` (check that bash is at /bin/bash, might be /usr/bin/bash) |
| 19:22 | <@abudhabi_> | Sweet! Worked. |
| 19:22 | <@abudhabi_> | Thanks TheWatcher, ToxicFrog! |
| 19:29 | <@abudhabi_> | Hmm. Should I disable remote root login now, or after I've done the 'business logic' stuff and made sure everything works more or less? I mean, I have a non-root user set up with SSH and own-password sudo, so lacking the capability to remotely root in shouldn't be a problem. Right? |
| 19:37 | <@abudhabi_> | Is there anything at all that I couldn't find a way to do with a sudo-capable user, also armed with the actual root password? There's no actual reason to just directly remotely log into the root account, right? |
| 19:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | "Well, 8GB extra memory isn't that much considering --" "8 terabytes." "Oh. Yeah." |
| 19:50 | < Emmy> | who do i gotta murder to get 8gb of ram in my PC |
| 19:51 | < Emmy> | i mean tb |
| 19:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Emmy: this is with respect to total memory usage across all tasks for a given stack |
| 19:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | So the actual conversation is "8TB of memory across all our datacenters just went away and we need it back" |
| 19:53 | < Emmy> | oh yeah, that is an issue |
| 19:53 | < Emmy> | nothing along the lines of what my company had from friday to monday, but still |
| 19:53 | <@abudhabi_> | Hmm. I wonder if restarting ssh over ssh will log me off. |
| 19:55 | <@abudhabi_> | Apparently not! |
| 19:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi_: restarting sshd? No, it forks for each connection so the fork handling your session will stick around. |
| 19:57 | <@abudhabi_> | Hmm. Now root login says "permission denied, try again", instead of "sorry, try again". Which I guess means that it worked! |
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| 22:00 | <@macdjord> | ToxicFrog: How did /that/ happen? |
| 22:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | macdjord: good question, but as the oncall of an indirectly related system my involvement was mostly limited to pointing the oncalls for the actual thing blowing up to the source of the problem. They're the ones dissecting it to find out why. |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 23 00:00:30 2018 |