| --- Log opened Tue Mar 06 00:00:33 2018 |
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| 10:24 | | * TheWatcher arghs, shoos the dragons out of his HTML |
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| 11:01 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-i3ch00.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 11:02 | | * TheWatcher eyes zurb |
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| 11:04 | <&[R]> | The homestuck thing? |
| 11:06 | <@TheWatcher> | No, the people who make the Foundation framework |
| 11:12 | < Vorntastic> | What'd they do? |
| 11:18 | <@TheWatcher> | 6.4 uses flexbox by default, which is fine... as long as you don't have people using IE 10. |
| 11:20 | <&[R]> | Fuck people still using IE |
| 11:20 | <&[R]> | It supports /none/ of the new JS syntax stuff |
| 11:20 | <&[R]> | Let that shitpile die you assholes |
| 11:20 | <&[R]> | D: |
| 11:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Yep, totally. |
| 11:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Now, let me introduce you to a real office :/ |
| 11:21 | <&[R]> | Yeah, I don't code for offices |
| 11:25 | <&[R]> | Also why even support IE after 6? This isn't the first time IE has been horrendiously stuck in the past. |
| 11:27 | <@TheWatcher> | One of these days, people will write a framework where I don't have to care about which browser people are using |
| 11:28 | <@TheWatcher> | ahahahaha, only joking -_- |
| 11:28 | <&[R]> | That'll only happen /after/ MS dies |
| 11:28 | <&[R]> | Since they're the ones who keep screwing that hope up |
| 11:29 | <&[R]> | Though jQuery meets your criteria |
| 11:30 | < Vorntastic> | At this point it's not even on Microsoft any more in a lot of ways. They can't go and get everyone on ie10 to upgrade |
| 11:30 | < Vorntastic> | They've tried that and get yelled at |
| 11:31 | <&[R]> | Fair, however they're the source of the problem. |
| 11:35 | <@TheWatcher> | Mind, I also need to deal with the fact that there's people out in the offices here who're using old versions of firefox and chrome, because they use the "managed" staff desktop, which only gets updated once every decieon or so. |
| 11:36 | | * TheWatcher has that ; shot |
| 11:37 | <&[R]> | Like 3x-4x old? |
| 11:44 | < Vorntastic> | Like we yell at people who run old versions of any software with possible security issues and if there's any software with possible security issues it's browsers. |
| 11:50 | < Vorntastic> | (well, and antivirus) |
| 12:00 | < Vorntastic> | And then they go to work and it's all "IT is making us use a browser that's been out of support on our systems for two years" and... |
| 12:10 | <&[R]> | Having a /wierd/ network issue right now. |
| 12:11 | <&[R]> | Current setup is bunch of machines behind a firewall/NAT (OpenBSD) which goes into a cable modem. |
| 12:11 | <&[R]> | Currently I am IRC'ing over this very setup |
| 12:11 | <&[R]> | I can't connect to anything, I can't ping the firewall from inside, I can't SSH into the firewall, I can't ping out, I can't connect to websites... |
| 12:12 | <&[R]> | If I physically access the OpenBSD box's terminal, it works fine, I can log in, I can ping both internal and external hosts, I can SSH into internal hosts... |
| 12:13 | <&[R]> | I've power cycled the cable modem, just wondering if there's anything else I can do. (Worried that if I power cycle the OpenBSD box and that doesn't fix the issue then I'm going to have to hoop jump to get back onto IRC) |
| 12:14 | | Degi_ [Degi@Nightstar-imch03.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 12:14 | <&[R]> | Actually, as a test, does http://rpg.nobl.ca/ come up? |
| 12:15 | < Vorntastic> | Timing out |
| 12:15 | <&[R]> | You get the browser's timeout? |
| 12:16 | <&[R]> | Hmm |
| 12:17 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-i3ch00.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Timeout here, too. |
| 12:19 | <&[R]> | Hmm... |
| 12:22 | < Vorntastic> | Well for me it sits there for quite a while |
| 12:23 | < Vorntastic> | Lasts a while, I don't know how long it waits but it's more than a minute |
| 12:23 | | Jessikat [Jessikat@Nightstar-5v224g.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 12:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Ping is failing for me, too. And traceroute is falling into a black hole somewhere in shaw's network |
| 12:26 | <&[R]> | Fun |
| 12:26 | <&[R]> | Yeah, looking at the logs reveals nothing out of the ordinary |
| 12:26 | <&[R]> | Welp. Time to roll the dice, unless someone's got an idea of what I can poke/look at? |
| 12:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Sounds like your openbsd's not doing packet forwarding? |
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| 12:31 | <&[R]> | Okay, that fixed it |
| 12:31 | <&[R]> | I should've probably logged the output of ifconfig, see what the rx/tx values were at |
| 12:31 | <@TheWatcher> | yep, and http://rpg.nobl.ca/ is working from here |
| 12:34 | < Vorntastic> | Yay worky |
| 12:35 | <&[R]> | I can't even begin to guess why it'd just drop new TCP connections it didn't initiate |
| 12:36 | <&[R]> | Well, ICMP, and possibly UDP too |
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| 14:35 | <@TheWatcher> | .... argh, why amd I getting a template error for this, asdfghjkl;'# |
| 14:40 | < Vorntastic> | I'll be home in 20 minutes; I can look at it if you want |
| 14:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Nah, I worked it out - I needed to clear the template cache |
| 14:45 | < Vorntastic> | Fuckin caches |
| 14:48 | <@TheWatcher> | How do they work? |
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| 15:38 | <@mac> | <Vorntastic> And then they go to work and it's all "IT is making us use a browser that's been out of support on our systems for two years" and... |
| 15:38 | <@mac> | This is what LTS releases are for, dammit! |
| 15:44 | < Jessikat> | LTS? |
| 15:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Long Term Support |
| 16:02 | <~Vornicus> | the browser in question was released in 2012 and has been obsoleted by updates that work everywhere |
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| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | Linux Mint's version of GTK3 is hilariously out of date even on its rolling release, ANAICT |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | They're still on 3.18, and 3.22 has been the "final" release in that vein for many years. |
| 19:06 | <&McMartin> | (Also because GNOME, or possibly because semver, the final minor release deprecates common behavior in previous versions and introduces new behavior to replace it that is incompatible with all previous releases) |
| 19:07 | <&McMartin> | It's had 13 point releases to stabilize, guys |
| 19:08 | < Jessikat> | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262092525748092939/420647431491944448/facebook_1520360709401.jpg |
| 19:11 | | * McMartin wonders whatever became of Puppy Linux. |
| 19:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: that is not how semver works >.< |
| 19:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: it's still around, released 7.5 a few months ago |
| 19:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Jessikat: needs a cat version |
| 19:14 | <@Tamber> | TF: Apparently it is in the GNOME world. |
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| 19:43 | <@Pi> | I want that t-shirt so much. <3 |
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| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: ... GNOME doesn't use semver, but that *is*, AIUI, how semver works. |
| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | The most recent minor revision is the most recent version where code written to run on it won't run on earlier versions. |
| 19:56 | <&McMartin> | The most recent major revision is the version that removed all the things that were deprecated. |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | Writing to early minor revisions works, mostly, but with a bunch of deprecation warnings if you compile it on anything released in the past three years. |
| 19:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | I read "new behavior to replace it that is incompatible with all previous releases" as "stuff written for 3.18 won't work on 3.22" |
| 19:58 | <&McMartin> | It's more "won't work in your desktop environment" |
| 19:58 | <&McMartin> | "And the calls that will work don't exist in 3.18" |
| 19:58 | <&McMartin> | You're usually at "works well enough for an open-source UI" which is, uh, a grimly low bar, or it just flat-out is a no-op. |
| 19:59 | <&McMartin> | One of these I know is a Wayland issue, the other I suspect is one. |
| 20:00 | <&McMartin> | And by "a Wayland issue" I mean "Wayland uses a different enough architecture for compositing that X11 abstractions do not describe it and you cannot meaningfully shoehorn one into the other" |
| 20:00 | <&McMartin> | And instead of exposing the differences, or providing a different abstraction that both can use, GTK3 just provided the X11-like interface and made all the functions be no-ops. |
| 20:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | u, |
| 20:01 | <&McMartin> | Note that the "provide a different abstraction that both can use" is a sufficiently light lift that SDL2 does it. |
| 20:01 | <&McMartin> | Though what they had to do to make it happen fills me with a sufficiently small amount of girlish delight that I am in no particular hurry to replicate it. |
| 20:03 | <&McMartin> | (The issue is cases where you have a VM or emulated system with a mouse in it. The X11 way to do this is to hide the mouse pointer, confine it to the target window, and every time it moves, warp it back to the center. The Wayland approach is to confine it to the window's drawing rectangle (pointer confinement works Differently in Wayland and is not bound to windows) and then pay attention only to relative |
| 20:03 | <&McMartin> | mouse motion events.) |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | (Wayland's permissions model only permits the mouse pointer to be warped by a window when that window has focus and the pointer is already inside it, and only to places within the window. *WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH* but since it's not fully general enough for the GNOME team's API, it's just a no-op instead of half-assing it.) |
| 20:05 | <&McMartin> | It's also harder to get angry at Wayland for this case because its API is unmistakably the correct one for the problem at hand. |
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| 20:24 | <@macdjord> | Vornicus: Sorry, what I meant was 'If your IT policy is too conservative to just the latest release of your chosen browser, that's fine; just pick one of the LTS releases and stick with it for 5 years, applying the security patches as they come out. But for the love of god don't just install a standard release and then never update it at all!' |
| 20:59 | <@abudhabi> | What android browser has ad blocking capability? |
| 21:00 | <@abudhabi> | I'm real tired of Chrome not bring able to run extensdions. |
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| 21:23 | <&[R]> | Not sure, TBH I'm getting really tempted to setup a proxy on my network so I can MiTM the ads out. |
| 21:23 | < Mahal> | use pihole? |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | I hope pihole has a mode where it can be shut |
| 21:23 | | * Mahal pats McMartin |
| 21:24 | <&McMartin> | (Having never previously heard of pihole I have nothing of actual value to contribute) |
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| 21:36 | <@mac> | abudhabi: You can get AdBlockerPlus for Firefox on android. It doesn't run as an in-appextension, though; it's a separate app that acts as a sort of... proxy thing |
| 21:41 | <@abudhabi> | There's apparently also this adaway thingy, but that requires root access, andI don't know how to get that on this calculator. |
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| 23:06 | <&McMartin> | https://i.redd.it/8a9korma83k01.png |
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| --- Log closed Wed Mar 07 00:00:34 2018 |