| --- Log opened Sun Jun 11 00:00:53 2017 |
| 01:06 | < ToxicFrog> | Wow |
| 01:06 | < ToxicFrog> | notforth, in its current state, uses up about 20% each of RAM and EEPROM on the atmega32 |
| 01:06 | < ToxicFrog> | three-quarters of that is the Arduino serial library. |
| 01:07 | < ToxicFrog> | A REPL-less version uses 2.4k of EEPROM and 116 bytes of RAM. |
| 01:07 | < ToxicFrog> | I wonder how hard it would be to reimplement just the parts of the serial library that the REPL needs in notforth itself. |
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| 02:13 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 02:26 | <@himi> | TF: maybe see if there's a non-Arduino serial library that's smaller |
| 02:34 | <&McMartin> | https://scenesat.com/video/11 is live from the demoparty I submitted an entry to. |
| 02:42 | < ToxicFrog> | himi: I found a bunch but they're all GPL :/ |
| 02:43 | <@himi> | What license are you using? |
| 02:45 | < ToxicFrog> | It's not released yet, but I was planning Apache2. |
| 02:46 | <@himi> | Isn't that one GPL compatible? |
| 02:46 | <@himi> | Or maybe that's the other way around . . . |
| 02:46 | <&McMartin> | That means GPL projects can you you |
| 02:47 | <&McMartin> | *use you |
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| 02:48 | <@Alek> | is something up with the mirkwood server? |
| 02:49 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: neat! |
| 02:49 | <&McMartin> | To be clear, this is not my entry. The competitions don't begin for another 10 minutes or so |
| 02:50 | < ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 02:50 | < ToxicFrog> | Still some kickin' rad music though |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. Those are Gameboy music chips there |
| 02:50 | < ToxicFrog> | Looks like I'll be going to sleep right about the time the competition proper starts |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | Sounds about right |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | [demoscene] Zach says, "Man, I couldn't code on X" |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | [demoscene] McMartin says, "That's why everyone uses a toolkit like Motif or GTK" |
| 02:50 | | * ToxicFrog makes a note to rip all of this music from the recordings >.> |
| 02:52 | <&McMartin> | I dont' have high hopes for doing well, as Oldschool goes up to '92 and I'm not operating under stupendous constraints or breaking brand new ground |
| 02:53 | < ToxicFrog> | The stream appears to be...unwell |
| 02:53 | <&McMartin> | indeed |
| 02:53 | <&McMartin> | ircnet seems also to have detonated |
| 02:54 | < ToxicFrog> | IRCNet is hosting the main online component of the party? |
| 02:54 | <&McMartin> | ancillary |
| 02:54 | < ToxicFrog> | I guess there must be a bunch of people all connecting for the contest. |
| 02:55 | <&McMartin> | doubt it |
| 02:55 | <&McMartin> | Certainly not enough to bring down a network like them |
| 02:55 | <&McMartin> | "Largest/longest-running demoparty in North America" turns out to be one of those "most famous bullfighter in Alaska" things |
| 02:56 | <&McMartin> | ReVision or Assembly it ain't |
| 02:56 | < ToxicFrog> | This is -- unsurprisingly -- good coding music. |
| 02:57 | < ToxicFrog> | And it occurs to me that the platform I'm working on is in some ways more constrained than the C64~ |
| 02:57 | <&McMartin> | in MANY ways. |
| 02:59 | <&McMartin> | Less RAM, smaller ancillary systems being controlled, maybe even fewer GPIO pins. |
| 02:59 | <&McMartin> | And if it's an ATmicro it's still 8-bit and might not even be faster. |
| 03:01 | < ToxicFrog> | It's an ATMega32 |
| 03:01 | < ToxicFrog> | So it does at least have more EEPROM |
| 03:02 | < ToxicFrog> | How many GPIO pins did the C64 have? |
| 03:02 | <&McMartin> | Didn't you say 32kb? That's Super Mario 1 levels. |
| 03:02 | <&McMartin> | Hmm. Correction |
| 03:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but I thought the C64 had 64k RAM and 16k ROM? |
| 03:02 | <&McMartin> | It didn't have GPIO pins per se, but the entire address and data bus is exposed |
| 03:02 | <&McMartin> | As was the pattern of the time |
| 03:03 | <~Vornicus> | you'd plop a cartridge in and suddenly addressing to a section of memory is redirected to cartridge. |
| 03:03 | <&McMartin> | 64KB address space. The amount of ROM available varies on external config |
| 03:03 | < ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 03:04 | <&McMartin> | In particular... yeah, default cartridges took up 32 KB that was, I think independent of at least 15KB of the normal ROM |
| 03:04 | <&McMartin> | There's 24KB of ROM in the system and also a PLA for address decoding/redirection |
| 03:04 | < ToxicFrog> | As far as pins go, the atmegas have 20 GPIO pins, 6 of which have ADCs attached |
| 03:04 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, everything on the 6502 is teeeeechnically memory mapped |
| 03:04 | <&McMartin> | And the userport lets you swipe everything |
| 03:05 | < ToxicFrog> | So is everything here, but there's no bus with which to attach external devices to the memory map |
| 03:05 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 03:05 | <&McMartin> | This is one of the distinct ways in which it is more constrained~ |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | But yes, you don't get EEPROM on the C64 at all, by default |
| 03:06 | < ToxicFrog> | So all the CPU's registers can be accessed as global variables at known addresses, as can all the IO registers and the ADC configuration bits and whatnot |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | You use its RAM for that. |
| 03:06 | < ToxicFrog> | But if you want Extra Memory you need to attach it via the UART or I²C or something |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, OK |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | (and then do something to copy data to/from on-chip RAM before manipulating it) |
| 03:07 | <&McMartin> | It was not only fine to plug more RAM in as a cartridge, it was typical to plug in entirely different CPUs (the Z80 and the 65816 being the most common) |
| 03:07 | <&McMartin> | You had to do paging to reach it though, because 16-bit address bus |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | (I think there's a bigger size of Atmel MCU that lets you attach external EEPROM banks, but the ATMega isn't it) |
| 03:07 | <&McMartin> | There's an actual 8-bit Atmel |
| 03:07 | <&McMartin> | IIRC that's what powers the Harmony Cartridge |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | the attiny, IIRC |
| 03:08 | < ToxicFrog> | Which this might actually run on with SERIAL_REPL undef'd |
| 03:09 | <&McMartin> | Whoop nope nm |
| 03:09 | <&McMartin> | Harmony cart isn't an Atmel at all, it's a straight-up 70MHz ARM7TDMI-S |
| 03:09 | <&McMartin> | That's the most powerful CPU sitting on that table right now |
| 03:10 | <&McMartin> | There are two 6502-class chips there, three Z80s, and another ARM7TDMI that's maybe a quarter as fast. |
| 03:11 | <&McMartin> | (The table *next* to it has a PowerPC, an ARMv8 Cortex-53, and a Haswell-generation Celeron.) |
| 03:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Speedwise, apparently the atmega32 can run anywhere from 16MHz to 16kHz |
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| 04:01 | < ToxicFrog> | I really wish C sprintf() understood %q right now |
| 04:04 | <&McMartin> | Quadword? |
| 04:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Quoted string. |
| 04:10 | <&McMartin> | Goodness, that would certainly be a thing |
| 04:10 | < ToxicFrog> | string.format("%q", str) in lua emits a string that, if fed back into the lua lexer, exactly reproduces str |
| 04:10 | <&McMartin> | Sharp-eyed viewers will have noticed about one second of my demo running as they test connections |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | Right now they seem to be testing the VIC-20 though |
| 04:11 | < ToxicFrog> | Which would be extremely handy right now since I'm writing C code that emits C code |
| 04:11 | < ToxicFrog> | For now I'm settling for "if you use any sort of escape sequences you're going to have a bad time" |
| 04:12 | < ToxicFrog> | and now... the slep |
| 04:18 | <&McMartin> | Just in time for the compo to actually start >_> |
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| 12:37 | <@abudhabi> | Does Visual Studio 2017 Community have "evaluate expression" in debug mode? |
| 12:59 | <&[R]> | <Aethysius> I know this happened to a lot of people but this is my experience: Me editing config files in Fedora Linux (I left the computer for a while to go to the bathroom) Mom: (looking at the sheer number of code on gedit) Oh my gosh this must be a computer virus deletes everything in the file, saves, and turns off computer Me coming back: Mom, why is the computer off? Mom: Oh, there were some viruses with lots of text and I deleted it and turned off your |
| 12:59 | <&[R]> | <Aethysius> computer. It's probably that VLC thing you installed (Config file was X.org config files) Me: Mom, you broke it! that's not virus! Mom: You don't talk back to your parents like that, now go back and fix it! You broke it yourself... |
| 13:00 | <@Tamber> | Screen-lock. *nods* Always a good habit to get into~ |
| 13:03 | <@TheWatcher> | .... wat |
| 13:03 | <@TheWatcher> | who the fuck even does that? |
| 13:03 | <&[R]> | His mother obviously |
| 13:10 | <@abudhabi> | Even adjusting for possible embellishment, it's pretty stupid. |
| 13:12 | <@gnolam> | The mother's name? Albert Einstein. |
| 13:13 | <&[R]> | Yeah |
| 13:13 | <&[R]> | Why not just trust the kid to fix it when he gets out of the bathroom? Maybe he already noticed the "virus"? |
| 13:19 | <@gnolam> | Also note that she's supposedly so clueless that she thinks that code == a virus, yet can work gedit and Linux just fine. |
| 13:20 | <&[R]> | gedit looks like notepad |
| 13:20 | <&[R]> | After that, just hit the power button |
| 13:23 | <@gnolam> | With that kind of user, changing the /color scheme/ means "oh my god this is totally different I can't use this". |
| 13:23 | <@abudhabi> | Yes. |
| 13:50 | <@gnolam> | Some day I'm going to find whichever stupid fuck of a web dev first decided that window width < height => hide the top bar and maybe if you're lucky switch to a hamburger menu (despite there still being ample room to show the top bar), and I shall make him pay. |
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| 15:14 | <@celticminstrel> | abudhabi: Try "quick watch"? I think it's in the context menu somewhere. |
| 15:15 | <@celticminstrel> | I think you can also add expression to the watch panel. |
| 15:15 | <@celticminstrel> | ^+s |
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| 21:18 | | * TheWatcher grumbles about hungarian notation |
| 21:18 | | * McMartin suggests obviously superior Bulgarian notation |
| 21:19 | <@abudhabi> | Polish notation FTW. |
| 21:22 | <@Azash> | There's an approach very much in favour at $CLIENT wrt. code structure, naming, comments, overall documentation and architecture |
| 21:22 | <@Azash> | I call it "no tation" |
| 21:22 | <@TheWatcher> | McMartin: does that one give my code several bonuses? |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | Quite possibly it does. |
| 21:23 | <@gnolam> | Especially if you're stepping through it. |
| 23:10 | < ToxicFrog> | So I'm flipping through the @party recording and decided to check out Sound Chip Chillout |
| 23:11 | < ToxicFrog> | and it's interesting, except the music samples he plays are several orders of magnitude louder than his voice |
| 23:11 | <&McMartin> | The stream from this morning was kind of a sound disaster :/ |
| 23:11 | < ToxicFrog> | So every time he gets to a sample I have to turn it waaaaay down or suffer and in either case I can't hear his commentary at all. |
| 23:14 | < ToxicFrog> | This is a shame because this is a really interesting talk |
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| 23:35 | < ToxicFrog> | argh there's a whole section on the SID and I can't hear it |
| 23:35 | <&McMartin> | Hmm |
| 23:35 | <&McMartin> | I should watch the Ultimate Game Boy Talk. |
| 23:37 | < ToxicFrog> | ...is that the Bomberman 64 theme playing on an SCC? |
| 23:42 | < ToxicFrog> | YM2612 woooooooooooo |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jun 12 00:00:02 2017 |