| --- Log opened Sun Feb 26 00:00:40 2017 |
| 00:00 | <~Vornicus> | hooray |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | Before: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/zx81_ml2.png |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | After: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/zx81_ml3.png |
| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | Program origin point is different so I had to reassemble before relinking, but I'd say that's well worth it |
| 00:43 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-5b2l0q.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
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| 01:27 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
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| 06:59 | <&[R]> | https://retropie.org.uk/2017/02/legal-help-needed/ |
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| 09:04 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|sleep |
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| 09:28 | | * Vornicus svgsvgsvgs. |
| 09:34 | | LadyOfLight [catalyst@Nightstar-5aee1d.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
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| 09:35 | <&McMartin> | "This guy's head is so far up his ass he needs to open his mouth to blow his nose" |
| 09:35 | <&McMartin> | Wrong on so many levels but I *need* to work that into something |
| 09:37 | <~Vornicus> | What |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | I suppose that's not super-on-topic for #code but a lot of code-related stuff is lambasting other people's stupidity |
| 09:40 | <&McMartin> | So hey, that's a really good phrase |
| 09:51 | <~Vornicus> | my powers of topology have failed me |
| 09:54 | <&McMartin> | That's why it's such an amazing line |
| 10:06 | | * Vornicus Very Much Appreciates SVG's shape reuse features. |
| 10:49 | | LadyOfLight [catalyst@Nightstar-bt5k4h.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #code |
| 11:04 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 11:18 | | * Vornicus finishes dishes, completes the first batch of shapes: the N shapes. |
| 11:24 | <~Vornicus> | http://imgur.com/EPCWzQe hooray |
| 11:33 | | * Vornicus learns his way around Tiled. |
| 12:03 | | ion [Owner@Nightstar-6grqph.vs.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:32 | <@Pi> | I gave a CTPUG talk about Hypothesis yesterday; in case anyone's interested, here are the slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1aIsUuTj3RF4ydp2nDLzfcuBelT-WDmnOGkPHJTDE pTg/edit |
| 13:33 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, capetown |
| 13:45 | <@Pi> | Ah, yeah. :) |
| 13:46 | | * Vornicus is in Connecticut. |
| 13:46 | <~Vornicus> | (also abbreviated CT) |
| 13:48 | <@Azash> | The Connecticut PUG might need a fairly roomy locale for meetings |
| 13:58 | <~Vornicus> | ok Tiled is actually super nice to use. |
| 14:13 | <&[R]> | Tiled's no longer a massive PITA to use? |
| 14:14 | <&[R]> | Do they still have an XML based format which has elements full of base64 encoded binary data? |
| 14:14 | <~Vornicus> | the tileset setup stuff is a little annoying but no worse than... basically anything else that you'd use to do it |
| 14:14 | <~Vornicus> | it's still XML, and base64 is two of the three options for that blob of - the other one is CSV |
| 14:17 | <~Vornicus> | it also exports to several other formats, including JSON, Game Maker rooms, and lua data |
| 14:20 | | * jerith decides to write a game in Rust. |
| 14:20 | < LadyOfLight> | Galvanise yourself. |
| 14:21 | <&jerith> | I found http://www.piston.rs/ and some boardgamegeek solitaire print-and-play contests. |
| 14:22 | <~Vornicus> | But I'm messing aroung with it and it's really nice; you can grab a hunk of tiles and draw with that, from either the sprite sheet or the existing map. |
| 14:22 | <~Vornicus> | Build a house, grab it, plop another one down. |
| 14:22 | <&jerith> | I have no idea how the game I've chosen ( https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/203027/unterseeboot-u-boat-solitaire ) is licensed. |
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| 18:48 | <&jerith> | So far I've spent rather more time than I'm really happy with fighting generics. |
| 18:49 | <&jerith> | Although that may just be Piston's design. |
| 18:57 | | * McMartin notes in passing that Game Maker rooms *are* XML these days |
| 18:57 | | * McMartin also notes that Rust isn't as good at Generics as it should be yet |
| 18:58 | <&jerith> | It seems XML has become less obnoxious now that it isn't the default for all the things. |
| 19:11 | <&McMartin> | It's also less obnoxious than a great many alternatives. |
| 19:11 | <&McMartin> | Game Maker used to use custom binary blobs for everything, and replaced it with directories full of stuff in standard file formats for those things which had file formats |
| 19:11 | <&McMartin> | And those which were not were basically serialized structures, and XML is pretty good at that and you *probably* shouldn't be looking at it directly anyway |
| 19:12 | <&McMartin> | But if you *do* there it is and every scripting language in the world already knows how to parse it. |
| 19:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | I contend that XML is pretty bad at "serialized structures" and the fact that it's mostly used for that and not for what it was actually designed for is a tragedy. |
| 19:32 | <&McMartin> | I don't mean arbitrary program objects. |
| 19:32 | <&McMartin> | I mean hierarchical value classes. |
| 19:32 | <&jerith> | I contend that XML isn't all that great at being a markup language, and SGML is better.~ |
| 19:33 | <&McMartin> | And yes, you have to zip it if you ship with it, but to Game Maker's credit, it basically doesn't. |
| 19:33 | <&McMartin> | It packages them in an IFF-based binary format. |
| 19:33 | < LadyOfLight> | I contend that XML is bad |
| 19:33 | <&McMartin> | But that's not what you use while editing/creating, which means you can, e.g. emit GameMaker rooms with a Python script. |
| 19:34 | <&McMartin> | And tweak elements within it with Notepad++. |
| 19:35 | <&jerith> | Yay, I have defeated the borrow checker. |
| 19:35 | <&jerith> | And "learned" some new syntax. |
| 19:37 | < LadyOfLight> | it concerns me that it is seen as a thing to defeat |
| 19:37 | <&McMartin> | There are two schools of thought of the "better to not write code with errors in it in the first place" variety |
| 19:37 | <&jerith> | (As far as I can tell, the Rust Book only documents independent lifetimes, not dependent lifetimes.) |
| 19:38 | <&jerith> | LadyOfLight: I was being somewhat (but not entirely) facetious. |
| 19:38 | < LadyOfLight> | :D I know |
| 19:38 | | * LadyOfLight has many Opinions on lifetimes and thinks Rust has the right approach to the wrong problem |
| 19:38 | <&jerith> | In general, I believe the correct solution to this problem is GC. |
| 19:39 | < LadyOfLight> | In general, I believe that the hacky solution that makes terrible use of computing resources to this problem is GC |
| 19:39 | < LadyOfLight> | and is the primary reason why C++ is still in such a good position in its niche :s |
| 19:39 | <&jerith> | But I understand that there are exceptions to this and that Rust targets that niche. |
| 19:40 | < LadyOfLight> | I don't like explicit memory management, but I think that garbage collection is a kind of awful way to go about solving that problem |
| 19:40 | <&McMartin> | Is "dependent lifetimes" the 'a stuff? |
| 19:40 | <&jerith> | That's "lifetimes". |
| 19:41 | <&McMartin> | OK |
| 19:41 | <&jerith> | My problem is that I need "&'a mut thing" where thing has its own lifetime. |
| 19:41 | < LadyOfLight> | Having said that, GC does at least work well enough as a basis to back a lot of useful languages |
| 19:42 | | * LadyOfLight runs away |
| 19:42 | <&jerith> | "&'a mut Foo<'a>" doesn't work because it requires the reference and the thing it references to have the same lifetime. |
| 19:43 | <&jerith> | "&'a mut Foo<'b>" works, but not if you enclosing structure has "<'a, 'b>" as its lifetime. |
| 19:43 | <&jerith> | s/you/your/ |
| 19:43 | <&jerith> | You need "<'a, 'b: 'a>" on the enclosing structure. |
| 19:44 | <&jerith> | And I only know that syntax because I found it in the fourth or fifth SO page I go to by searching for the error message. |
| 19:44 | <&McMartin> | That looks familiar, but I'm not sure where I found it. |
| 19:44 | <&jerith> | *got to |
| 19:45 | <&jerith> | It's possible that it is documented in the Rust Book, but it's not in the "lifetimes" section unless I have entirely failed to comprehend it several times in the past hour. |
| 19:45 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I don't see it either. |
| 19:46 | <&McMartin> | It's possible I got it by looking at library API specifications or something. |
| 19:46 | <&McMartin> | Or some crate that used it already. |
| 19:46 | <&McMartin> | Though it's been long enough that my memory of it was more like "uh, some kind of where clause lets you do that right" |
| 19:47 | <&jerith> | I don't much like the syntactic overlap between lifetimes and generics. |
| 19:48 | <&jerith> | Oh, I didn't even find the answer on SO: https://users.rust-lang.org/t/cannot-infer-an-appropriate-lifetime-due-to-confli cting-requirements/7029/5 |
| 20:11 | | * jerith *glares* at Piston's text handling. |
| 20:11 | <&jerith> | Not that it's significantly worse than anyone else's. |
| 20:13 | <&McMartin> | I kind of wonder how much the revamped text engine in Sunless Sea (a) is modular, (b) would be worth in licensing fees if it is |
| 20:13 | <&jerith> | But the API for creating and drawing text allows me to specify colour, font_size, and transformation parameters. The latter useful primarily for placement. |
| 20:14 | <&jerith> | Notably missing is any way to determine pixel size of the drawn text. |
| 20:15 | <&jerith> | However! The CharacterCache trait (which must be passed when drawing) allows one to specify font_size and text and get back the width of the rendered glyphs. |
| 20:15 | <&jerith> | But not the height. |
| 20:18 | | macdjord is now known as macjord|fude |
| 20:18 | | macjord|fude is now known as macdjord|fude |
| 20:27 | <&jerith> | Aha! I can dig even further and get a texture for each individual character, which seems to have a pixel size. |
| 20:28 | <&jerith> | The rendered characters themselves claim to have sizes, except height is always zero. |
| 20:29 | <&jerith> | And it really doesn't seem to match the texture size very well. |
| 20:30 | <&jerith> | Maybe that's because of kerning. |
| 20:57 | | * McMartin laughs at some of these terrible old type-ins |
| 20:57 | | * McMartin wins a game of checkers by repeatedly jumping over empty space, after moving a checker one square sidewise into unreachable squares. |
| 21:00 | <~Vornicus> | whups |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | Up next: a turn-based version of star raiders, but contrary to the game instructions, your laser cannon has infinite range and never misses |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | I should learn about this Tiled thing |
| 21:40 | <~Vornicus> | tiled is quite nice once you get going. Definitely have a look at the samples, see what it can do |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | Maybe I could even resurrect the Dapper Delver project |
| 21:54 | <~Vornicus> | ! |
| 21:57 | | * TheWatcher eyes emacs |
| 21:58 | <@TheWatcher> | why are my column-marker-* settings not working, ugh |
| 21:59 | <&jerith> | Because emacs. |
| 22:01 | <@TheWatcher> | O.o |
| 22:03 | <@TheWatcher> | I have it set up to do several variations on (add-hook 'c++-mode-hook (lambda () (interactive) (column-marker-1 80))). `Ctrl+h v major-mode` says I'm already in c++-mode. But if I do `M-x c++-mode`, suddenly the markers start working. |
| 22:03 | <@TheWatcher> | I guess the hook is failing initially, or something.... |
| 22:03 | | * TheWatcher digs in *messages* |
| 22:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, I bet it's hideshow again. |
| 22:15 | | SmithKurosaki [63f6d296@Nightstar-d81bfg.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 22:16 | < SmithKurosaki> | Hey guys. Do you guys have a good website for comparing two code bases? |
| 22:18 | <&jerith> | Comparing how? |
| 22:19 | < SmithKurosaki> | I have 2 output lists (more accurately) and I need to find the differences |
| 22:20 | <&jerith> | `diff -u a/ b/` |
| 22:20 | <&jerith> | ? |
| 22:20 | <&jerith> | Or a GUI diff tool like meld or something? |
| 22:20 | < SmithKurosaki> | On chromebook, |
| 22:20 | < SmithKurosaki> | Site preferred |
| 22:20 | < SmithKurosaki> | website* |
| 22:21 | <&jerith> | github, commit to two branches? |
| 22:21 | <~Vornicus> | ^ |
| 22:22 | < SmithKurosaki> | Yea. Wasn't sure if there was another web-based option |
| 22:26 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:52 | <&[R]> | If you're comparing lists... comm in Core Utils |
| 22:53 | <&[R]> | But you could also abuse a wiki as a diff tool :p |
| 22:53 | < SmithKurosaki> | Core Utils? |
| 22:53 | < SmithKurosaki> | I've not been programming for a while |
| 22:54 | <&[R]> | The package that contains most of /bin/ |
| 22:54 | <&[R]> | ls, cat, cp, mv, rm, etc... |
| 22:56 | | * SmithKurosaki nods |
| 22:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | I miss my crouton install on here |
| 22:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | Something happened and my book reverted to beta channel instead of dev, so I lost functionality and have no idea how to fix it :( |
| 22:58 | <&[R]> | Also has stuff like tr, comm, cut |
| 23:27 | | SmithKurosaki [63f6d296@Nightstar-d81bfg.mibbit.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 23:28 | | * Vornicus horrays for the pythagorean theorem |
| 23:45 | | celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel |
| --- Log closed Mon Feb 27 00:00:42 2017 |