| --- Log opened Wed Jan 25 00:00:11 2017 |
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| 10:44 | < catadroid> | So when I read the C++ standard, I refactor it into LISP macros in my head as I go. Am I in too deep? |
| 10:59 | | * TheWatcher goes forth to fight the Twitter API |
| 11:00 | <~Vornicus> | "When I read the C++ standard" -- yes |
| 12:11 | < catadroid> | Pff |
| 12:12 | < catadroid> | You don't learn about languages by reading standards documentation? |
| 12:12 | <~Vornicus> | Most of the time, no |
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| 12:19 | < catadroid> | Just me, I guess |
| 12:21 | <~Vornicus> | The only ones I kind of do it with are HTML (but only after checking secondary sources like MDN) and Lua (because lua is that small) |
| 12:26 | <@TheWatcher> | ... I hate Twitter. |
| 12:27 | <@TheWatcher> | screenscraping should not be a more viable option than your fucking API |
| 12:29 | < catadroid> | Try the normal API? |
| 12:32 | <@TheWatcher> | http://i.imgur.com/BbgL7x3.gifv |
| 12:53 | | * TheWatcher stabs and stabs and stabs the twitter devs |
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| 13:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Vague note: if you ever write a REST API and do not use ISO8601/RFC3339, or at the very least RFC2822 date strings if you really must, I will burn effigies of you on an altar to Yog-Sothoth |
| --- Log closed Wed Jan 25 13:17:55 2017 |
| --- Log opened Wed Jan 25 13:18:23 2017 |
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| 13:20 | <~Vornicus> | Would unix time be okay |
| 13:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, yeah, that's fine too. |
| 13:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | What are they using instead? |
| 13:32 | <@TheWatcher> | 'EEE MMM dd HH:mm:ss Z yyyy' |
| 13:32 | <@TheWatcher> | So, 'Thu Jan 19 12:18:32 +0000 2017' |
| 13:33 | <@TheWatcher> | Which, y'know, I can parse okay. But ugh. |
| 13:33 | <~Vornicus> | Kill |
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| 15:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Sounds like someone is just doing `strftime("%c", time(NULL)) |
| 15:18 | | * catadroid yells at everything |
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| 16:37 | <@celticminstrel> | %c? |
| 16:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: "time and date in the default human-readable format for the current locale" |
| 16:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 16:39 | <@celticminstrel> | That actually seems pretty handy. |
| 16:40 | <~Vornicus> | Sure, if the thing is supposed to be consumed *by a human* |
| 16:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | ^ |
| 16:41 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah. |
| 16:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | And if the machine you're running it on has the same locale settings as the human. |
| 16:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Right, not for server-side web apps. |
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| 18:23 | <@ErikMesoy> | My searches for "UI Tax", "user interface tax" et al keep turning up taxation calculator software. I'm looking for material on "UI Tax" in the sense of "the interface is clunky and you have to pay to make it not-clunky", which I thought was a recognized design antipattern. |
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| 18:24 | <@ErikMesoy> | Is there reference material on this, somewhere behind the searches and overloaded keywords? Or is it me that's vastly overestimating the recognition of this antipattern? |
| 18:24 | <&[R]> | I think you're overestimating it |
| 18:25 | <&[R]> | I don't think I've ever seen a situation where the UI was clunky specifically to make money |
| 18:25 | <&[R]> | That seems vastly counter-intuitive. |
| 18:27 | <@ErikMesoy> | Not necessarily *specifically* to make money, but the one that struck me today was that EU4 has tile-by-tile manual management of fleets by definition, and when the devs came up with a "give fleets general region order" feature, they put it in a DLC. |
| 18:28 | <&[R]> | Ewww |
| 18:28 | <@ErikMesoy> | Elsewhere I've seen UI Tax in the form of automation feature which, for "newbie-friendly" reasons, is only presented to the user after the user has done the operation manually sufficiently many times. |
| 18:28 | <&[R]> | Paying for UI fixes is... no. Just no. |
| 18:28 | <&[R]> | That's not good behavior to reinforce. |
| 18:28 | <@ErikMesoy> | (In fairness, the DLC contained significant actual gameplay content addition.) |
| 18:29 | <&[R]> | That one isn't too bad |
| 18:29 | <&[R]> | An early access means to get to the automation must be available though |
| 18:29 | <@ErikMesoy> | In the automation case it's a time cost, not a money cost. Do this stupid thing over and over so that you can automate it. Even if you know about the automation feature already. |
| 18:29 | <@ErikMesoy> | Early access was not available. |
| 18:29 | <&[R]> | That's stupid, what if I have a fresh install? |
| 18:30 | <@ErikMesoy> | Exactly. |
| 18:30 | <&[R]> | I gotta do it manually 10 times? That's retarded. I have a job you fucks, let me do it! |
| 18:30 | <&[R]> | (Something MS in recent times seems to have complete- MANDITORY 7 HOUR WINDOWS 10 UPDATE TIME |
| 19:13 | <&jerith> | I spend a lot of my life automating things that people thought nobody would want to do even once. |
| 19:15 | <&jerith> | "Oh, you want to set up some worker nodes with these parameters different? You either don't use our installer or you change things around afterwards and hope you got to it before stuff got sent to the wrong machine." |
| 19:15 | <&jerith> | (Although, to be fair, this is a pretty obscure use case.) |
| 19:16 | <&jerith> | (And part of the problem is a deficiency in some upstream software that they package as part of their integrated solution.) |
| 19:39 | <&[R]> | https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/screen-devel/2017-01/msg00025.html |
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| 20:42 | <&McMartin> | Worth noting |
| 20:42 | <&McMartin> | That is, uh, a pretty major privilege escalation bug |
| 20:43 | <&[R]> | Yeah |
| 20:43 | <&[R]> | A trivial to use one too |
| 20:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Wow |
| 20:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | Requires screen to be installed setuid-root, though (why would you ever do this?) |
| 20:45 | <&[R]> | Isn't that default? |
| 20:45 | | * TheWatcher checks |
| 20:45 | <&[R]> | Apparently not |
| 20:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Isn't on gentoo, at least. |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | It seems to be setgid screen on Fedora. |
| 20:49 | <&[R]> | So it looks like it's more an issue of idiotic package maintainers |
| 20:50 | | * TheWatcher ponders making a quip, decides against it for decorum... |
| 20:53 | <&[R]> | I was going to do some pottering bashing :p |
| 20:53 | <&[R]> | (Since RedHat brought us that too) |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Debian's got it setgid tmp |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 26 00:00:15 2017 |