| --- Log opened Fri Oct 28 00:00:23 2016 |
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| 09:56 | | * gnolam hmms. |
| 10:11 | | * gnolam flails at interaction design. |
| 10:13 | <@gnolam> | I have a label designer. You can add various dynamic elements to the labels, such as barcodes. |
| 10:15 | <@gnolam> | The specs usually give you a lot of leeway in how big these barcodes can be, so they can of course be resized via a standard "click and drag the resize handles". |
| 10:16 | <@gnolam> | For QR, EAN-8 and EAN-13 codes, this is fine. |
| 10:16 | <@gnolam> | But now I'm adding Code 128. Which I just realized is variable length. |
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| 10:18 | <@abudhabi> | Size for maximum length? |
| 10:18 | <@gnolam> | They can be arbitrarily large. |
| 10:19 | <~Vornicus> | That, or -- is there a minimum practical size for the bars in your barcode? |
| 10:29 | <@gnolam> | Well... depends on the DPI of the printer and the resolution of the scanner. |
| 10:32 | <@gnolam> | The height sizing can work as is. Just use whatever it's resized to. But it's how to present width sizing in a decent way that has me stumped. |
| 10:37 | <@abudhabi> | gnolam: Find out how long they are in practice, put a margin of safety on. |
| 10:37 | <@abudhabi> | Also, is there no way to design variable-length labels? |
| 10:37 | <@abudhabi> | I mean, preset height, but 'print as long as there is content' type length. |
| 10:50 | <@gnolam> | What I'm struggling with is not "how do I make them expand", it's "how do I let the user resize them in a way that makes sense". |
| 10:50 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. Should probably clarify: the label designer is not an external program, it is what I am working on. |
| 10:54 | <~Vornicus> | right, I figured that bit out |
| 13:54 | | * TheWatcher hairpulls at lecturer |
| 13:54 | <@TheWatcher> | No, it is not sufficient to tell the students that git commit messages "should be meaningful and helpful" and nothing else FFS |
| 14:01 | <&Reiver> | ... indeeed not |
| 14:04 | <@TheWatcher> | That's how you end up with this stuff: https://xkcd.com/1296/ |
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| 17:21 | <&[R]> | TheWatcher: what should a good commit message look like? |
| 17:21 | <&[R]> | (legitimately curious) |
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| 20:12 | <@abudhabi> | [R]: First of all, it should be non-empty. :V |
| 20:31 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:54 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 20:58 | <@TheWatcher> | [R]: there's the standard stuff about keeping it under 50 characters when possible, capitalise the first letter, no period on the end. But then the best guildelines I've run into also throw in 'use imperative mood', which is made much easier if you try to make your commit message be such that you can do |
| 20:59 | <@TheWatcher> | "If applied, this commit will <commit message here">" |
| 21:01 | <@TheWatcher> | http://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/ is a place I usually direct people to for a really good view of it |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | "fix some stuff"~ |
| 21:04 | | * TheWatcher twitch |
| 21:05 | <&[R]> | "h4xx0r ur b0xx0rs its so great. Pull now for a fun time!" |
| 21:08 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile, in my continuing DOS-on-a-stick saga - it doesn't work on either of my two BIOS systems |
| 21:08 | <&[R]> | Lame |
| 21:08 | <&McMartin> | One can't boot from USB after all, and the other promptly forgets how halfway through, so KERNEL.SYS loads but then it can't find COMMAND.COM because it lost C: |
| 21:08 | <&[R]> | Using MS DOS, Dr DOS or FreeDOS? |
| 21:08 | <&McMartin> | FreeDOS |
| 21:08 | <&McMartin> | Hence, KERNEL.SYS |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | So my next step is to try to make a CD image, load it with the software I want to test, and boot off that |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | I have some roll-your-own-OEM-FreeDOS-ISO stuff downloaded but as of yet untested |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | If that works, that'll be fine as long as I don't make a habit of it |
| 21:10 | <&McMartin> | The more complicated project involves using something that directly formats the boot sectors of the USB stick with FreeDOS instead of relying on SYSLINUX to bootstrap everything |
| 21:11 | <&[R]> | Wait, Syslinux isn't working to boot from USB? |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | Not to get me all the way through |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | It gets to the point of the fat16.bss, and then from there to kernel.sys |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | But then not from there to command.com - it says bad or missing command.com and asks for a path |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | Some preliminary investigation implies that this is because kernel.sys's probing of the floppy drives resets the USB state and then it can't actually access anything after that |
| 21:13 | <&[R]> | Ah, so it's not actually a problem with syslinux, just a problem with freedos not being able to handle it. |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | It seems plausible that one could put a proper set of drivers into a memdisk or something and keep those around for the duration of the boot, but my syslinux-fu is pretty weak and I can't tell what if anything is wrong with the instructions |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | Well, it's "supposed" to be able to handle it |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | It just doesn't on any of my hardware |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | There is no shortage of bootable USB stick images and HOWTOs on the net |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | And the chances seem higher that there's something odd about my setup than that all of these people are lying through their teeth |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | I used these instructions: http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/USB |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | With modifications of "I didn't format it first, because it was already fat16, and that also means I used fat16.bin instead of fat32lba.bin" |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | The GRUB approach appears to use an initrd of some kind, which might work better |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | (It's also quite plausible that I'm misusing SYSLINUX, and so the problem is "with" SYSLINUX in that it is doing the wrong thing, as ordered) |
| 21:17 | <&[R]> | Syslinux has an initrd option itself as well, but AFAIK that just sends a parameter to the kernel. |
| 21:18 | | * [R] is surprised someone actually managed to get GRUB to successfully work with portable media |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, there's a reason I read those Linux instructions and promptly decided to go the Windows/SYSLINUX route |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Sometimes, better the devil you *don't* know |
| 21:18 | <&[R]> | Because last I check GRUB is hilariously picky about boot order, if the order of the boot device changes at all it shits itself. |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | That sounds about right |
| 21:20 | <&[R]> | I flat out couldn't use GRUB on two of my low power devices because their awesome BIOS only has a single item boot order, and GRUB won't install to a device that currently isn't in the boot list because it needs to know the boot order the device would be in... |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Then again, if I'm only ever using it on one machine with fixed hardware, I can ensure that only one USB is connected |
| 21:20 | | * McMartin nods |
| 21:20 | <&[R]> | (Was booting from removable media, trying to install to internal media) |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, my Most Promising System here has a BIOS with 4 |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | At least |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Since that's where the USB shows up when I hit F7 |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | DVD-ROM, HDD, PXE, USB |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | (It's a System 76 Gazelle Professional 7) |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | Also, things that are great |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | Apparently there's a stripped down version of cat in FreeDOS |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | As a smaller cat, it is named KITTEN.COM |
| 21:48 | <&[R]> | ... |
| 21:48 | <&[R]> | That's 7 bytes longer though |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | 8.3; all filenames consume constant amounts of space |
| 21:48 | <&[R]> | Also 2 characters more than type is. |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | I suspect it's replacing/making pipable the "copy a+b+c d" thing |
| 21:51 | | * [R] forgot how wonky DOS' commandline was |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, it's not really scriptable, and it's inconvenient to actually interface with |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | ... though generally speaking C runtimes handle that bit for you, except when they don't, or when they do it wrong |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | DOS (and Windows, too, actually) don't pre-parse command lines, they just hand it to the program directly. |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | Windows has a separate library call for turning commandlines into argc/argv equivalents, and that's actually more reliable than just checking argc/argv for a distressing number of things |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | Mostly related to "commandlines are allowed to have unicode in them" and going through the commandline/parser call does all that work in UTF-16 |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | While a bit more roundabout, this is one of the very few places where Windows is unquestionably more reliable than POSIX -_- |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | At least if you're of the opinion that file names are supposed to be strings, and not arrays of octets |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | Which I believe is the current consensus~ |
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| 22:44 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: if it helps any, I have a shell script that emits a USB key that can boot a bunch of stuff, including freeDOS |
| 22:44 | < ToxicFrog> | And I have successfully done so on most of my systems |
| 22:44 | < ToxicFrog> | (no UEFI support yet, though) |
| 22:46 | | * [R] would be interested in seeing that |
| 22:46 | <&McMartin> | That does sound interesting |
| 22:46 | <&McMartin> | I'm hoping to do this nondestructively |
| 22:46 | < ToxicFrog> | https://github.com/ToxicFrog/mkrescue |
| 22:46 | <&McMartin> | So we'll see how things go with that |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | Really, I just want to run and time a set of ten CGA graphics programs on as close to the bare metal as I can manage -_- |
| 22:47 | < ToxicFrog> | This is very much not nondestructive, but it does leave the rest of the USB stick available as FAT-formatted space |
| 22:47 | < ToxicFrog> | (it stuffs all its bits into a /boot directory) |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | Well, so |
| 22:47 | < ToxicFrog> | (although in The Futureā¢ that will be /efi so it plays nice with UEFI without needing multiple directories) |
| 22:48 | <&McMartin> | I've got a 128MB FAT-formatted USB stick already with stuff on it |
| 22:48 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh, well, there is a nondestructive ("update") mode, but that doesn't guarantee that the partition table etc are set up right |
| 22:48 | <&McMartin> | I'm pretty confident in those at present |
| 22:48 | < ToxicFrog> | And I forget if it installs the bootloader, or assumes that it's already installed and just updates the kernels/configs |
| 22:48 | <&McMartin> | Given that I can in fact boot off the thing |
| 22:48 | < ToxicFrog> | aah |
| 22:48 | < ToxicFrog> | well then |
| 22:49 | <&McMartin> | But, well |
| 22:49 | <&McMartin> | There's nothing of value on the stick |
| 22:49 | <&McMartin> | If we have to nuke it, so be it |
| 22:50 | < ToxicFrog> | I actually need to make some updates to this |
| 22:50 | <&McMartin> | ... die_happy? |
| 22:50 | < ToxicFrog> | UEFI support, and either fix or remove SUSE support, since they changed something in how their rescue CDs work in the last year or so that broke it |
| 22:50 | < ToxicFrog> | I should also comment it better~ |
| 22:51 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: exit 0, but also disable the exit handler (that cleans up partially-completed stuff) first |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | This looks like a much more convenient attempted next step |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | Note that FreeDOS fundamentally won't work on UEFI, AIUI |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | It's making strong assumptions about INT 10h |
| 22:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 22:58 | < ToxicFrog> | I actually want UEFI support for non-freedos-related reasons |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's pretty obvious from the list hee |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | *here |
| 22:59 | < ToxicFrog> | Specifically, so that I can boot into tinycore on my laptop when things go horribly wrong without needing to disable uefi boot support (because it won't do both at once) |
| 23:54 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| --- Log closed Sat Oct 29 00:00:39 2016 |