| --- Log opened Sat Aug 13 00:00:53 2016 |
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| 02:08 | | * Vornicus searches through an es6 compatibility chart, wonders what the hell an "astral plane" string is |
| 02:08 | < catalyst> | o: |
| 02:11 | <~Vornicus> | Ah. "astral plane" means unicode points beyond the basic multilingual plane |
| 02:56 | | * Vornicus breaks out the knuth |
| 03:06 | < catalyst> | A good vintage? |
| 03:06 | < catalyst> | Knuth is clearly some form of alcogol |
| 03:06 | < catalyst> | alcohol* |
| 03:08 | <~Vornicus> | this is 2011 vintage. |
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| 04:52 | <@himi> | There's a 2011 vintage Knuth? |
| 04:58 | <~Vornicus> | Volume 4A, Combinatorial Algorithms Part 1 |
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| 07:34 | | * Vornicus throws together a 'solver' for some weird minesweeper-voltorb-something puzzle in a pokemon game for his brother |
| 07:58 | <&[R]> | Minesweeper's impossible to get perfect on 100% right? |
| 07:58 | <~Vornicus> | Sometimes. |
| 07:59 | <&[R]> | No matter what, you both have to make random choices and get randomly screwed. |
| 07:59 | <~Vornicus> | There are certain configurations -- two cells next to each other that you know one has a mine but you only have clues that count both cells -- that are impossible. |
| 08:00 | <~Vornicus> | They are by no means a certainty. |
| 08:01 | <~Vornicus> | this particular thing is rather different. each cell has either a voltorb, a 1, a 2, or a 3 in it. FOr each row and each column you get the number of voltorbs in that line and the sum of the scores in that line as well. |
| 08:01 | <&[R]> | Right, but you will eventually have that situation. |
| 08:01 | <~Vornicus> | No |
| 08:01 | <~Vornicus> | Not all minesweeper boards have this failure. |
| 08:01 | <&[R]> | I am assuming infinite game. |
| 08:01 | <&[R]> | Games* |
| 08:02 | <~Vornicus> | Well okay, the set of infinite minesweeper boards that have ambiguous situations is of measure zero |
| 08:02 | <~Vornicus> | but when I was playing a lot of minesweeper, maybe 20-25% of boards have ambiguous situations. |
| 08:02 | <~Vornicus> | (on expert) |
| 08:05 | <~Vornicus> | The goal in this thing is to find all the 2s and 3s before hitting a voltorb; it's not typically possible to know the complete configuration or even the configuration of the voltorbs, so it generates all possible boards and then highlights the known and safest cells. |
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| 09:00 | < catadroid`> | Rawr |
| 09:00 | < catadroid`> | Today I will at least complete exercise #28 |
| 09:01 | | * Vornicus cookies catadroid, gives her http://duznanski.github.io/voltorb/ |
| 09:01 | <~Vornicus> | exercise #28 in what? |
| 09:01 | < catadroid`> | clojure thing I was following |
| 09:01 | <~Vornicus> | aha |
| 09:02 | < catadroid`> | Minesweeper? |
| 09:04 | <~Vornicus> | It's a -- in one of the pokemon games (I don't know which one, my brother was playing it) there's a minigame where you're given as clues the sum of scoring tiles, and the number of voltorbs, in each row and each column |
| 09:06 | < catadroid`> | So are the voltorbs good or bad? |
| 09:06 | <~Vornicus> | My thing figures out the safest squares to try, given the clues, and as you reveal squares in the thing you can put the results into the page to get it to update the probabilities |
| 09:06 | <~Vornicus> | THe goal is to get points while avoiding voltorbs; the game ends in victory when there are no 2s or 3s left unrevealed |
| 09:06 | <~Vornicus> | and ends in failure when you reveal a voltorb. |
| 09:07 | < catadroid`> | Ahhhh |
| 09:10 | <~Vornicus> | so it will highlight those squares which are least likely to contain a voltorb. |
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| 09:15 | < catadroid> | Neat |
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| 12:16 | | * catalyst finally locates sufficient spoons to submit that clang crash report |
| 12:22 | | * catalyst hopes it does not make her look stupid |
| 12:22 | | * catalyst thinks she worries too much about looking stupid |
| 12:24 | <@Pi> | catalyst: Good to hear! |
| 12:24 | <@Pi> | Yay for spoons |
| 12:24 | <@Pi> | Yeah, you're submitting a clang crash report, I think that inherently rules out being stupid. :) |
| 12:25 | < catalyst> | https://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=28962 |
| 12:25 | < catalyst> | Does that look ok? |
| 12:25 | < catalyst> | The interface for submitting only allows a single attachment, although it seems you can subsequently add more |
| 12:25 | < catalyst> | so I copied the text of the relevant files into the body |
| 12:26 | < catalyst> | Which is why I potentially feel stupid |
| 12:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Anyone should be feeling stupid, it's them for running SHA-1 signatures on their ssl certs~ |
| 12:30 | <@TheWatcher> | You've given trace, code to reproduce, worded it sensibly; I can't see any reason to feel stupid there at all. Hell of a lot better bug reporting than many I've seen, and them too I'm sure. |
| 12:30 | < catalyst> | I hope so |
| 12:33 | < catalyst> | Thank you |
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| 16:08 | <@celticminstrel> | I want to implement a copy/move constructor without manually copying every single field... |
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| 18:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Is memcpy(arr, other.arr, sizeof(arr)) sufficient to copy a multidimensional array? |
| 18:52 | <@Tamber> | Should be, I'd imagine. (I could be wrong, though.) |
| 18:53 | <@celticminstrel> | What about swapping? Is there any better way than looping through and swapping the individual elements? |
| 18:53 | <@celticminstrel> | (Or does std::swap work on them?) |
| 18:54 | <@Tamber> | That, I don't know enough to comfortably say. |
| 18:55 | <&McMartin> | It depends on how the array was constructed. |
| 18:56 | <&McMartin> | That might be a copy, or it might be a move. |
| 18:56 | <&McMartin> | If it's multidimensional but created with a single malloc, it's fine, but if you did individual allocations of each sub-bit, then no |
| 18:56 | <&McMartin> | And I don't remember quite how you sort that out in C. |
| 18:57 | <&McMartin> | I think the answer I'm supposed to give is "You probably shouldn't be using C arrays" |
| 18:59 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not malloc'ed |
| 18:59 | <@celticminstrel> | It's declared as an array in a class. |
| 18:59 | <&McMartin> | As in, int grid[100][100] or whatever? |
| 18:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | That can be memcopied. |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | Let me double-check that though |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | Well, first |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | Is it something like int |
| 19:00 | <&McMartin> | Or is it a class |
| 19:00 | <@celticminstrel> | It's int or char or something. |
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| 19:01 | <&McMartin> | Yep. Memcpy is fine |
| 19:01 | <&McMartin> | There is no move constructor that isn't copy for such a thing either. |
| 19:01 | <&McMartin> | "grid" in my example is just a chunk of (probably) 40,000 bytes there in the middle of the class. |
| 19:02 | <&McMartin> | Where things get interesting is when you are instead an array of pointers, or a pointer-to-pointer |
| 19:02 | <&McMartin> | Then allocation strategy matters and you can probably move or swap via pointer swaps |
| 19:03 | <&McMartin> | If this is *your* class |
| 19:03 | | * catadroid purposefully avoids multidimensional arrays in C/C++ fwiw |
| 19:03 | <&McMartin> | Consider making the big array its own structure with one element and then copying/moving/swapping just the pointer |
| 19:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Hmm, okay. |
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| 19:04 | <&McMartin> | But a copy then requires a reallocate, mind you. |
| 19:04 | <&McMartin> | Unless it's *also* an *immutable* array. |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | catalyst: I actually used one yesterday! I was writing a Conway-game-of-life kind of thing in a screen or so of code and was too lazy to set up rowmajor/columnmajor etc. |
| 19:05 | <@celticminstrel> | So for swap I have no option other than looping through? (Or memcpy thrice, which seems bad.) |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | memcpy is going to be better than looping through. |
| 19:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Even doing it multiple times? Okay then. |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | memcpy is going to be able to write a faster loop than you can. |
| 19:05 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, memcpy gets actual processor/system controller support |
| 19:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Alright. |
| 19:06 | <&McMartin> | Doing it yourself will only save space. |
| 19:06 | <@celticminstrel> | I think some of these are supposed to be 2D bit arrays... |
| 19:07 | < catalyst> | McMartin: fair - for the kinds of things I generally use arrays in, I tend to want to be precise about the iteration order of the elements, and I find that far easier to reason about if I'm defining the dimensionality myself from a single large allocation |
| 19:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Might be able to replace them with std stuff later. |
| 19:07 | <@celticminstrel> | For now though I just want to get proper copy/move semantics set up. |
| 19:07 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. This one was so lazy it's not even dynamically sized. :) |
| 19:08 | <&McMartin> | celticminstrel: move is only for things with internal structure, and C arrays of ints don't have a primitive structure. |
| 19:08 | <&McMartin> | So move == copy |
| 19:12 | <~Vornicus> | long as what you're moving is bigger than like two words I think you win. |
| 19:12 | <&McMartin> | (The automaton I was implementing, idly, was https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/CCA.html - still my favorite cellular automaton) |
| 19:13 | <@celticminstrel> | Though despite that there's still a separate memmove. |
| 19:13 | <&McMartin> | memmove differs from memcpy in that memcpy demands the source and destination ranges not overlap, and memmove does not require that. |
| 19:13 | <&McMartin> | It is less efficient but more correct. |
| 19:16 | <~Vornicus> | I once tried to figure out how to do a memmove, there are a ridiculous number of cases |
| 19:17 | <&McMartin> | ... there should only be three |
| 19:17 | <&McMartin> | disjoint, overlapping with src < dest, overlapping with src > dest |
| 19:17 | <&McMartin> | I suppose once you start actually using SIMD instructions those latter two start to subdivide |
| 19:17 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah |
| 19:20 | <&McMartin> | Funnily enough for all my madness I've never delved into the SIMD extensions on x86. |
| 19:25 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess there's no way around having a list of all attributes in the copy constructor and the swap function... |
| 19:30 | | * catalyst knows far too much about SIMD on x86/x64/PPC |
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| 19:47 | <@celticminstrel> | The coupling is getting in the way of my copy/move semantics... |
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| 21:04 | | * McMartin meanwhile is trying to get a handle on the iOS software stack |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | I've managed to get an app that actually looks and behaves correctly thanks to mostly autogenerated boilerplate, but a lot of this relies on magic |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | And all the iOS Actual Pros I'm talking to at work (because I need to learn this stuff to be in a position to help them out) are pretty insistent on the magic petering out real fast |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | Which means peeling off the flashy bits or the weird extra engines Apple provides and get closer to the system's core. |
| 21:06 | <&McMartin> | (And then back out, from that, to the toolkit my co-workers are actually *using*, but one step at a time!) |
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| --- Log closed Sun Aug 14 00:00:09 2016 |