| --- Log opened Mon Oct 26 00:00:18 2015 |
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| 09:27 | <@gnolam> | Ok, Inno Setup is much less awful than NSIS. |
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| 20:35 | < Vorntastic> | Name for an error that occurs only when someone who can fix it isn't looking |
| 20:36 | <&McMartin> | 02:27 <@gnolam> Ok, Inno Setup is much less awful than NSIS. |
| 20:36 | <&McMartin> | It's one of the three I recommend looking at |
| 20:39 | <&McMartin> | (The other two being NSIS and WIX, but WIX is the most awful of them, suitable only for when being an MSI-based system is a hard requirement) |
| 20:40 | <@gnolam> | If it's worse than NSIS, I don't even want to know what kind of horrors it contains. |
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| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | I'll share just one: It's all XML and each XML element needs to have a UUID that you must provide by hand |
| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | (Basically all of WIX's brain damage comes from it being a thin wrapper around Windows Installer, which literally was never intended for humans to deal with) |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | (The *intent* was for people to interact with it via InstallShield, but that didn't end up happening) |
| 21:27 | <&McMartin> | InnoSetup has actually caught up a lot, to the point that now that I look at its full list I can no longer say that NSIS is embarassingly far ahead of all competition. Inno may have the lead now, at least until NSIS 3 comes out at which point they'll have parity |
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| 23:01 | <@gnolam> | Unless NSIS 3 completely rips out everything that is NSIS, I doubt it. |
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| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | My recollection was basically that if you need a custom installer UI Inno locked you in and NSIS was your only even half-reasonable option. |
| 23:04 | <&McMartin> | If you want to bind C extensions in, NSIS was your only option for awhile too, though some of this depends on how much of the Pascal stuff can spread out. |
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| 23:12 | <@gnolam> | I say your recollection is wrong.~ |
| 23:12 | <@gnolam> | (That or Inno has improved over the years.) |
| 23:13 | <&McMartin> | (The latter is very likely) |
| 23:13 | <&McMartin> | (This was in 2002) |
| 23:13 | <&McMartin> | (I recall the conclusion being "Do you want to do exactly what they had in mind? If so, great, Inno and Cygwin are fine. Otherwise, NSIS is your only option) |
| 23:14 | <&McMartin> | (On Mac, you now have no options whatsoever, and half the documented capabilities don't work anyway! \o/) |
| 23:14 | <&McMartin> | NSIS stagnated very hard after MUI 2.0 was released and they're still dicking around instead of releasing the version their documentation is *for* |
| 23:15 | <&McMartin> | The one that can handle filenames that aren't part of the system-default 8-bit codepage |
| 23:16 | <@gnolam> | I had a mostly feature complete NSIS installer, but getting it all the way... it might have been /theoretically/ possible, but I figured rolling my own installer from scratch would have been /less work/. |
| 23:16 | <&McMartin> | The specific thing we needed back in 2002 was net-installer capability due to the download size being between 1MB and 700MB depending on options |
| 23:16 | <&McMartin> | And NSIS was the only thing that had extensions that permitted this at all. |
| 23:17 | <&McMartin> | The part I find the most offensive about all of this is the apparently nearly-universal belief that installer generation is basically a self-extracting zipfile |
| 23:17 | <@gnolam> | I managed to recreate all the existing functionality, improve it, and add that last bit in half a day with Inno. |
| 23:17 | <&McMartin> | That's a strong testimonial. I'll need to look into it to see what's changed in 13 years. |
| 23:20 | <&McMartin> | UQM might as well be the test case, while we're at it~ |
| 23:20 | <@gnolam> | :) |
| 23:21 | <&McMartin> | (Since it evolved into an interesting case that stock net installers couldn't manage) |
| 23:22 | <@gnolam> | Haven't looked at the downloader stuff unfortunately. |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | It's possible Inno was actually extremely good *even then* but happened to have a non-closable gap in our specific need case |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | Which was basically "check for pre-existing file, md5sum it for validity, redownload it and install it if and only if we need to" |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | So that when you upgraded a copy it would treat the remix packs as Already There |
| 23:27 | <@gnolam> | Ah |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | Thus meaning your net install was 10MB instead of like 400~ |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | I remember at the time concluding "we can't make this work as-is" while it was two plugins and like four lines of code to get a prototype up and running in NSIS |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | At which point, there you go, etc. |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | But that's also a pile of icky script code at this point that predates NSIS having any control flow more sophisticated than GOTO, so I welcome the opportunity to improve that =P |
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| --- Log closed Tue Oct 27 00:00:34 2015 |