| --- Log opened Tue May 19 00:00:44 2015 |
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| 02:24 | <@Checkmate> | Been five whiles since I played with HTML and CSS. Is it possible to give text an outline? And is it possible to have multiple backgrounds? |
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| 02:25 | <&Derakon> | You mean like, individual letters are outlined, like we used to be able to do back in the mid-90's when weird font stylings were "artistic"? |
| 02:26 | <&Derakon> | I don't think proper modern fonts do that, and thus HTML/CSS won't either. |
| 02:26 | <&Derakon> | Multiple backgrounds: pretty sure you can just set backgrounds on divs or other elements, so sure. |
| 02:34 | <~Vornicus> | Best bet on CSS: text shadow, 0 offset, 1px blur |
| 02:35 | <~Vornicus> | Multiple background images: just list 'em, comma separated, front to back |
| 02:37 | <@Checkmate> | Hmm. |
| 02:37 | <@Checkmate> | Gonna have to play with that. |
| 02:39 | <~Vornicus> | If you want clearer shadowing, stack the shadows: color: white; text-shadow: 0 0 3px black, 0 0 3px black, 0 0 3px black; |
| 02:40 | <@Checkmate> | Hmm. |
| 02:40 | <@Checkmate> | It's late now, will be back for more advice. |
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| 02:42 | <~Vornicus> | text shadow doesn't work on IE9 which is despite everyone's best efforts still has 1.6% market share |
| 02:44 | <~Vornicus> | (or on ie which is at like 2.25%) |
| 02:44 | <~Vornicus> | ie8 that is) |
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| 03:22 | < Reiv_> | That is an absurd market share |
| 03:23 | < Reiv_> | Is this a fracturing of the IE base, or has Chrome/FF really taken over the world? |
| 03:23 | <&McMartin> | That's measuring verisons of IE independently, I think |
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| 03:36 | <~Vornicus> | that. |
| 03:37 | <~Vornicus> | IE10 and 11 are at 1.25% and 7.6% respectively. |
| 03:39 | <~Vornicus> | All four IEs combined beat Firefox; Chrome beats FF and IE together |
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| 03:50 | < Reiv_> | Wait, all IEs? |
| 03:51 | <~Vornicus> | 8, 9, 10, and 11. |
| 03:52 | <~Vornicus> | 7 is so old now that nobody runs it, and that's a good thing because nobody codes for it either~ |
| 03:54 | <~Vornicus> | at PD we support 9 but only as afterthought; "does it fail miserably?" is our main question |
| 03:54 | <~Vornicus> | (the answer is "usually not, unless we leave the debug statements in; IE9 does not initialize console until you open the dev tools) |
| 03:58 | | * McMartin finishes translating some of his old Project Euler solutions from Haskell into Scheme. |
| 03:59 | <&McMartin> | The pain points are much different when you have eager evaluation. |
| 04:02 | < Reiv_> | Man |
| 04:02 | <~Vornicus> | I'm still trying to figure out if I missed anything with my 60 solution |
| 04:02 | < Reiv_> | Remember when the internet was Stuck on what was it, IE 4 or something horrid |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | 152 is stumping me |
| 04:02 | <~Vornicus> | Every thing I see other people do doesn't *actually* guarantee that's the lowest sum; it just assumes that the one it finds is the right one |
| 04:03 | < Reiv_> | ah, local minima |
| 04:03 | < Reiv_> | How evil thou art |
| 04:04 | <~Vornicus> | (60 is: find a 5-clique of primes that concatenate, both ways, to primes, as 3 and 7 do (37 and 73 are prime), that has the lowest sum of the original five primes) |
| 04:05 | <~Vornicus> | (most people seem to solve, instead, ...that has the lowest maximum of the five primes) |
| 04:06 | <~Vornicus> | (which comes up with the same answer but only by coincidence) |
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| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | Reiv: IE6 was the ancient one we were stuck with for ages, IIRC. |
| 04:13 | < Reiv_> | right |
| 04:15 | | * Vornicus looks at 152 |
| 04:15 | <~Vornicus> | *wow*. |
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| 04:18 | <~Vornicus> | greedy? |
| 04:19 | <~Vornicus> | No, that's still too much to look at |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | refinement: since I know past a certain point all that remains must be too small, I can cut off there |
| 04:33 | <~Vornicus> | (I have no idea whether this will be enough, but it may in fact be) |
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| 04:43 | <~Vornicus> | actually that's *impressively* good. |
| 04:44 | < Reiv_> | How much? |
| 04:45 | | * Vornicus is checking. |
| 05:11 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:14 | <~Vornicus> | man. That actually takes a while. |
| 05:14 | <~Vornicus> | *think think* |
| 05:15 | <~Vornicus> | Thing about it though - I know it will never, ever contain for instance 79. |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | Mm, indeed |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | Vorn: I'm cutting off for both too large and too small and it keeps exploding |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, I'm formulating a thought here |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | Thing is. |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | I'm wondering if it's a dynamic programming instance |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, so, let's think about the 45 thing for a minute |
| 05:18 | <~Vornicus> | 11, 22, 33, and 44 are the only numbers that contain 11 as a prime factor |
| 05:18 | <~Vornicus> | *and* any factor that's in one denominator but not the other in a fraction addition will remain in the denominator |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | So if I split into two groups, if I have *any* hope of reaching 1/2, I need to make sure that the two denominators of (sum of all elements that don't have an 11 in the denominator) and (sum of all elements that do) *both* have no 11s in the denominator -- the first I know won't |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | And the second *might* |
| 05:20 | <&McMartin> | Mmmm |
| 05:20 | <&McMartin> | Yes, that has promise |
| 05:20 | <~Vornicus> | So if I take those -- 11, 22, 33, and 44 -- and see what things I can get that give no 11s in the denominator, then I've reduced those four bits into fewer. |
| 05:21 | <~Vornicus> | and I can do this for every prime number that I know will be the largest in each number it appears in. |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | And in the end we want one two. |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | ... I wonder if this gets easier if we double everything. Probably not. |
| 05:21 | <~Vornicus> | Doubtful. |
| 05:22 | <~Vornicus> | But this is a lot of numbers! |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | It is! |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | Even the 45 case ends up being billions with capped brute-force |
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| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | Hmmm |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | Things worth doing maybe: Prime-factorizing the sample solutions |
| 05:22 | <~Vornicus> | for 45, this is every prime between 7 and 45, which is 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43; six of those I can eliminate right out, and the others are unlikely to come up with anything. |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | looking for patterns |
| 05:23 | <~Vornicus> | Just the early eliminate reduces the problem 64-fold. |
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| 05:28 | <~Vornicus> | 11 doesn't make the grade either, down 1024x now |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | 7, 28, 35 eliminates the 7 |
| 05:28 | <~Vornicus> | how so? |
| 05:28 | <~Vornicus> | oh, right |
| 05:29 | <~Vornicus> | eliminates in that there is no 7 in the denominator |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | So, a first thought |
| 05:29 | <&McMartin> | For each prime factor larger than 2, find the sets that eliminate themselves from the denominator |
| 05:30 | <&McMartin> | If there aren't *any* you can wipe those |
| 05:31 | <~Vornicus> | And if there *are* but they don't cover everything then you can wipe those that aren't covered. |
| 05:32 | <&McMartin> | "cover everything"? |
| 05:32 | <&McMartin> | Oh, factors that can't be so used |
| 05:32 | <~Vornicus> | Well -- if 7, 28, 35 is the only tuple of multiples of 7 that eliminates the 7, then you know that 14, 21, and 42 can't be in the solution set |
| 05:32 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 05:33 | <&McMartin> | And every prime above 21 can be removed |
| 05:33 | < Reiv_> | Is this hunting for primes or something |
| 05:33 | <&McMartin> | Since there's nothing to combine with |
| 05:33 | <&McMartin> | https://projecteuler.net/problem=152 |
| 05:33 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv_: now it is. |
| 05:34 | | * Reiv_ eyes that |
| 05:34 | < Reiv_> | oh edar |
| 05:36 | <~Vornicus> | So, so - step 1, starting from high primes, find subsets of "numbers with this prime factor" that, when added, eliminate that factor. |
| 05:37 | < Reiv_> | yeah, that thing is pretty much search-for-primes its gotta be said |
| 05:38 | <~Vornicus> | Then cull those numbers that aren't in any of those subsets. |
| 05:39 | <~Vornicus> | We can do this repeatedly if we want; each time you cull a number based on a factor like this, we mark the *other* factors dirty, so we can then go and cull subsets that include this number, and that might cull more numbers |
| 05:39 | <~Vornicus> | This gets us down to many fewer numbers. |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | Mmm |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | One silly thing here |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | Maybe not so silly |
| 05:40 | <~Vornicus> | ? |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | OK |
| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | Step 1, for all primes from 3 to 40, compute those sets |
| 05:41 | <&McMartin> | (Note that the empty set is one of the elements of each set.) |
| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | Step 2 might then just be "bruteforce search with one set selected from each of those sets, and the powers of 2 sprinkled in at will" |
| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | Then check sums |
| 05:42 | <&McMartin> | That *might* be enough |
| 05:42 | <~Vornicus> | Careful, you'll have overlaps |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | That's why it's one from each |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | It's OK if 3 and 5 both pick sets with 15; the 3s and 5s should cancel on their own, yes? |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | But if there are two disjoint sets under 3, their union is a set of its own also under 3 |
| 05:43 | <&McMartin> | Oh wait, I see |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | We can't pick sets where overlaps introduce new factors. |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | We can, but it will be worthless |
| 05:44 | <~Vornicus> | Guess you can. |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | That said, we don't need to reject as soon as possible |
| 05:44 | <&McMartin> | If the search space drops to a few million as a result of step 1 there, you might as *well* bruteforce it from there |
| 05:45 | <~Vornicus> | At this point of course we're down to 8 short lists *anyway* |
| 05:45 | <&McMartin> | Seems promising, overall |
| 05:45 | <&McMartin> | However, SMG2 is competing with Euler152 |
| 05:45 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 05:58 | <&McMartin> | Oh good, Scheme has infinite precision rationals *and* a denominator function~ |
| 05:58 | <~Vornicus> | hooray |
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| 06:17 | <@Wizard> | "The MongoDB server (mongod) must run on a little-endian CPU, so if you are using a PPC OS X machine, mongod will not work." |
| 06:19 | < celticminstrel> | ...why? |
| 06:19 | < [R]> | It likely assumes that no-one sane would run a non LE CPU. |
| 06:20 | < [R]> | +and MongoDB at the same time. |
| 06:30 | < AverageJoe> | I liked my inane explaination better |
| 06:30 | < AverageJoe> | 'bcuz mongodb is written with inline assembler speed hax' |
| 06:40 | <&McMartin> | It's probably more "is mapping filedumps directly into structures" |
| 06:43 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey, I had a previous attempt at 152 from years ago |
| 06:44 | <&McMartin> | ... but it clearly didn't work, and now it doesn't compile |
| 06:44 | <&McMartin> | Euler152.hs:3:8: Could not find module `Ratio' It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | I was doing something very strange in this code regardless, though |
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| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | Oh, it wants Data.Ratio |
| 06:54 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, 7 minutes in and no sign of any progress, OK with calling that guy wrong~) |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | Hmm. |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | For multiples of 3 against 80 that is 64 million things to check. |
| 06:57 | <&McMartin> | That is *probably* still OK, really |
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| 07:06 | <&McMartin> | I get 24 sets with 7 |
| 07:08 | <&McMartin> | ... right. *everything* with a factor that isn't 2, 3, 5, 7, or 13 can be ignored. |
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| 07:11 | <&McMartin> | (There's 1 set on 13, 23 on 7, 362 on 5, and it's still computing for 3) |
| 07:16 | <&McMartin> | For a cap of 45, the only allowable factors are 3, 5, and 7, with 226, 13, and 3 possibilities each (not counting the empty set) |
| 07:19 | <&McMartin> | Fraction of a second for 45, 8 seconds for 60 |
| 07:19 | <&McMartin> | A minute and counting for 80 |
| 07:20 | <&McMartin> | Probably ten minutes~ |
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| 07:35 | <&McMartin> | OK, brute-forcing it would be going through 3,552,596,784 combinations. |
| 07:35 | <&McMartin> | I bet that's not going to be good enough. |
| 08:19 | <&McMartin> | Forbidding results that result in Forbidden Factors, however, drops the count time to 20 seconds and the number of total cases to check to 48,929,280 |
| 08:20 | <&McMartin> | That's a bit less implausible. |
| 08:21 | <&McMartin> | So, run through those, filter out any that result in powers of not-two when summed, and then see if you can combine those with the powers of two to get 1/2, I think. |
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| 10:42 | <@TheWatcher> | Ugh |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | Anonymous User sets up subscription s0 to f0, f1 using email e0, system sends auth code to e0, user activates it to prove ownership. Later AU gets a login account with email e1 as the default address, logs in, sets up a subscriton s1 to f1, f2 but using alternate email e0. System sends authcode to e0. If user activates this subscription, the system detects that e0 is subscribed to f0 and f1, merges those |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | into the user's subscription, deletes the |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | email only subscription. |
| 10:49 | < abudhabi> | WAD? |
| 10:51 | <@TheWatcher> | If the user does not activate the subscription, and instead returns and changes their account-related subscription to remove the alternate e0 before activating it, the system will automatically acivate the subscription, but won't deal with the fact that the user will still be getting f0 and f1 sent to e0, and now f1 and f2 sent to e1. |
| 10:52 | <@TheWatcher> | I guess this is sane, and the user should either activate the alternate email, or use the email-only unsubscribe system to delete the f0+f1 to e0 subscription, but I just know this is going to cause whining |
| 11:00 | <@gnolam> | TheWatcher: I was expecting "How tall is Imhotep?" at the end of that problem description. |
| 11:01 | <@TheWatcher> | I will have to put that in the version of this I'm including in the code. |
| 11:01 | <@TheWatcher> | As it is, I'm mostly thinking out loud. |
| 11:24 | <@TheWatcher> | from the code: https://gist.github.com/TheWatcher/a6cc1cf3acbed343bda5#file-gistfile1-pl-L21 |
| 11:24 | < catadroid> | Imhotep is invisible |
| 11:24 | < abudhabi> | Imhotep is indivisible. |
| 11:24 | < catadroid> | Imhotep is incurable |
| 11:26 | <@TheWatcher> | (bloody feature requests. "Can you let people subscribe to feeds? That'll be easy enough to do, right?") |
| 11:27 | <@TheWatcher> | (ah-hah-bloody-hah) |
| 11:27 | < catadroid> | someone brought up code style in a meeting |
| 11:27 | < catadroid> | three hours later... |
| 11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Three hours to say "The style guide should be your bible, obey the style guide"? |
| 11:33 | < catadroid> | the problem is that for this area we don't yet have a style guide |
| 11:33 | <@TheWatcher> | ... ohgods |
| 11:33 | < catadroid> | Also, please don't make major changes to our code just to update the style it makes merging a nightmare |
| 11:33 | < catadroid> | ...she says from painful experience |
| 11:54 | <@gnolam> | TheWatcher: hee @ Imhotep |
| 12:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Fffff, another problem. Fucking whack-a-mole scenario, this bloody thing. |
| 12:08 | < catadroid> | I hate coding when I feel sad |
| 12:08 | < catadroid> | it's much harder to keep things in working memory |
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| 13:26 | | * TheWatcher hairpulls |
| 13:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Why is this not bloody working, argh |
| 13:27 | < catalyst> | Are the hamsters still in the wheels? |
| 13:27 | <@TheWatcher> | ... yes |
| 13:27 | <@TheWatcher> | However, they're in the wrong wheel |
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| 14:06 | | mode/#code [+o Checkmate] by ChanServ |
| 14:18 | < catadroid> | This memory model has become complex enough that I've resorted to Greek letters for my examples |
| 14:18 | < catadroid> | yay |
| 14:19 | <@TheWatcher> | Next up: Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics! |
| 14:20 | <@Tarinaky> | "Crocodile, reed, man walking backwards... Gooooo <Insert name here>!" |
| 14:23 | <@gnolam> | Rongorongo! Because boustrophedonic writing is always fun. |
| 14:23 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-50nn7i.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 14:23 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 14:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Clearly your variables need to be nontextual UTF symbols. |
| 14:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Ideally vulgar ones. |
| 14:37 | <@Tarinaky> | What's the UTF code-point for penis? |
| 14:43 | < ToxicFrog> | I made a mistake setting my OOO status this monday. |
| 14:43 | < catadroid> | teehee penis |
| 14:43 | < ToxicFrog> | Now I have 15 code reviews. |
| 14:43 | < ToxicFrog> | And at least one of them is completely insane! |
| 14:43 | | * catadroid reviews ToxicFrog in detail |
| 14:44 | | * ToxicFrog twirls for catadroid |
| 14:55 | < catadroid> | :) |
| 15:04 | < Echoes--> | beep boop |
| 15:07 | < ToxicFrog> | boop beep? |
| 15:08 | < Echoes--> | beep boop. |
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| 15:15 | < catadroid> | meepy |
| 15:15 | < Echoes--> | there's a downside to learning how to do a way, way better thing that is more universal than repeating yourself. |
| 15:16 | < Echoes--> | Well, at least in this case. I have to write this one thing all over again. |
| 15:17 | < catadroid> | I'm writing this system for the second time with a completely different target |
| 15:18 | < catadroid> | it's a bit tedious |
| 15:18 | < Echoes--> | sucky. |
| 15:18 | < Echoes--> | the good news is that I'm not having to write out behaviors for every single monster. That is nice. |
| 15:19 | < Echoes--> | I just didn't know the method of really taking advantage of classes in I7 because I'm so new at it. |
| 15:25 | < catadroid> | well, actually it's becoming a lot more interesting the more into the depths of this system I go |
| 15:25 | < catadroid> | I'm getting to add a load of functionality the old system lacked |
| 15:28 | < Echoes--> | that's very good. |
| 15:28 | < catadroid> | aye |
| 15:29 | < catadroid> | until you realise that it involves blindly patching pointers in memory at runtime |
| 15:29 | < Echoes--> | Whenever I learn more about a language, the more I cringe at the way I do once did things.. ugh. |
| 15:31 | < catadroid> | on the plus side, when that stops happening it's a sign that you aren't learning new things |
| 15:31 | < Echoes--> | that's true. |
| 15:32 | < Echoes--> | I hope your thing goes well. That sounds more frustrating than my thing. |
| 15:32 | < Echoes--> | In a way, I should be relieved that this is going to save me many, many hours or work. |
| 15:33 | < Echoes--> | And that's particularly good since I have a finite window of time in which I'm really enthusiastic about a project. |
| 15:35 | < Echoes--> | Also, I hope your project goes well. Foo. |
| 15:39 | < ToxicFrog> | Echoes--: it is an endless truth of programming that you are always looking back at code you wrote earlier and going "wow, this is awful, I should completely rewrite it with what I know now" |
| 15:40 | < Echoes--> | lol, no doubt. |
| 15:44 | < Echoes--> | Though, it kind of sucks to have written so much... and the same thing could have been accomplished with 1/25th the lines of code, lol |
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| 15:49 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but that writing is a necessary part of the learning process. |
| 15:49 | < ToxicFrog> | You become a better programmer by programming. |
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| 15:51 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, by defeating your rivals and eating their brains. |
| 15:52 | < Echoes--> | for sure. |
| 15:52 | < Echoes--> | TheWatcher, that's only logical. |
| 15:52 | <@TheWatcher> | That's how you get a head in the profession! |
| 15:53 | < Echoes--> | What if you're a hobbyist? |
| 15:54 | < catadroid> | actually I'm really enjoying myself |
| 15:55 | < catadroid> | not least because I believe I am genuinely the best person at the company to be doing this and perhaps one of about three our four with the collection of skill sets who could in a reasonable time |
| 15:58 | < Echoes--> | Good times! |
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| 16:11 | < catadroid> | which makes me feel not useless ^_^ |
| 16:12 | < Echoes--> | that's good.. but I'm sure even if you didn't know what you know, you still wouldn't be useless, but I can understand the feeling. |
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| 16:23 | < catadroid> | I know, I'm not a very confident person |
| 16:24 | < catadroid> | frequently part of the problem is taking on things I don't yet understand |
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| 22:47 | < Reiv_> | ToxicFrog: I have written SQL I still consider Acceptable. |
| 22:48 | < Reiv_> | Of course, should I ever learn PL/SQL I will likely cringe in terror at it once more~ |
| 22:48 | < Reiv_> | (Pentuple-nested analytic functions masquerading as an if-then-else loop, whee) |
| 22:49 | < Reiv_> | (It's an incredible peice of code and resolves an answer in under ten seconds on an audit table. I couldn't ask for better, but holy hell it is well written, perfectly sensible, and *still* inflicts 1d4 sanity to comprehend what is going on) |
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| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: I solved #152. However, my solution took the better part of an hour to run, so I think your insights about chaining "forbidden numbers" will be necessary for a *good* solution. |
| 23:51 | <~Vornicus> | man |
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| 23:52 | <&McMartin> | Though looking at the thread now, there's a lot of variation in implementation detail, it looks like |
| 23:53 | <&McMartin> | Since I'm seeing people with "my brute force solution runs in about a second" |
| 23:53 | <&McMartin> | And then people with largely similar algorithms also taking an hour. |
| 23:56 | <~Vornicus> | man |
| 23:57 | < catadroid`> | woman |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 20 00:00:01 2015 |