| --- Log opened Sat May 09 00:00:47 2015 |
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| 02:04 | < Echoes--> | McMartin, oh, sorry I didn't reply, like, all day. I actually didn't have a specific question at the very moment. I'm just really excited about I7 as I'm in the middle of learning it. lol |
| 02:05 | < [R]> | Echoes--: Octa? |
| 02:06 | < Echoes--> | Yes, lol |
| 02:06 | < Echoes--> | what's going on [R]? |
| 02:06 | < [R]> | Ah, just checking |
| 02:06 | < Echoes--> | For sure. |
| 02:06 | | * [R] is playing with some shitty MySQL+PHP code |
| 02:06 | < Echoes--> | Good times. I'm still fiddling with my game. It turns out I get to do my game all over, because I found WAY better ways to do stuff. |
| 02:08 | < Echoes--> | I'm still doing that weird thing where I basically "abuse" scenes to call events without relying on extensions and whatnot. |
| 02:11 | <&McMartin> | The scene changing mechanisms are pretty nice for that, really |
| 02:11 | <&McMartin> | A lot of my games used them to manage the score |
| 02:12 | < Echoes--> | Oh cool, so I'm not the only one. |
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| 02:13 | <&McMartin> | In all seriousness, "make a thing happen when this condition holds" stuff isn't an abuse, they're the primary thing scenes are for |
| 02:14 | < Echoes--> | Yeah, except basically all of my scenes are recurring scenes.. and I make them happen over.. and over. |
| 02:14 | < Echoes--> | And it's not to advance the story or anything, it really is just to load some parameters or whatever. |
| 02:15 | < [R]> | Yeah... that's not DRY |
| 02:16 | < [R]> | No way to do it DRY? |
| 02:16 | < Echoes--> | I don't think I am? |
| 02:16 | < [R]> | Misread |
| 02:16 | < [R]> | I read it as you making multiple near-identical scenes with just data changes. |
| 02:16 | < Echoes--> | I just mean that, for instance, when combat happens, it triggers the "combat scene." That trigger happens a lot, but it's not like I'm re-writing the code for the scene more than once. |
| 02:17 | < Echoes--> | Oh yeah, that would be crazy! |
| 02:19 | <&McMartin> | That's why recurring scenes are a thing |
| 02:19 | < Echoes--> | Oh okay, good times. |
| 02:19 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, I tended to kick off a set of scenes at game start that end when a puzzle is in a solved state, and then the scene-end rule awards the points for it |
| 02:19 | < Echoes--> | Yeah, I reward XP similarly, etc. |
| 02:19 | <&McMartin> | Thus provably avoiding the silly bugs people still put in released stuff where you can get infinite points by repeatedly closing and reopening a door |
| 02:20 | < [R]> | But opening and closing doors are a critical part of any role-playing experience. Are you saying that roleplaying isn't important? |
| 02:21 | <&McMartin> | Using Inform 7 to do an RPG is arguably an abuse in the first place |
| 02:21 | < Echoes--> | Oh yeah, I caught a bug like that, myself. I made a little conditional which counts all the people in a room, but I accidentally made it continue counting every round. I fixed that right up. |
| 02:21 | < Echoes--> | McMartin, oh yeah, that's probably true, totally. |
| 02:21 | <&McMartin> | I am in fact totally saying that you should not get infinite score in an adventure game for repeatedly attempting the last step in a puzzle solution. |
| 02:21 | < Echoes--> | [R], lol. |
| 02:21 | <&McMartin> | Because that is not what score in an adventure game measures. |
| 02:22 | < Echoes--> | Totes. |
| 02:23 | < Echoes--> | I've always thought the "normal" score system in old school IF games were weird.. also arbitrary. lol |
| 02:23 | < Echoes--> | I still love those games, though. |
| 02:23 | <&McMartin> | They're closer to "achievements" in modern parlance |
| 02:24 | < Echoes--> | That may be true. Achievements are also pretty arbitrary.. but it's almost the same thing. |
| 02:25 | <&McMartin> | Not counting super-weird outliers like Zork III, winning with a full score is the game saying "you've done everything this game can do, go shelve it now" |
| 02:25 | < [R]> | Anything like conducts (a la nethack)? |
| 02:25 | < Echoes--> | ha ha. |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> | Can be |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> | I put one into the version 2 of Flight of the Hummingbird. |
| 02:26 | <~Vornicus> | Lost Pig had a conduct: Put Everything Back Where It Came From |
| 02:26 | < Echoes--> | I think that conducts are a pretty neat idea that needs to be in more games, and is not arbitrary. |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: Though that was also the Last Lousy Point |
| 02:27 | < Echoes--> | That's like kind of like the modern day equivalent of "hardcore," I think. |
| 02:27 | <~Vornicus> | true |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | FotH's "self-reliance" award was for beating the game using no inventory objects beyond what you start the game with |
| 02:27 | <~Vornicus> | foth's LLP was- what - the orbital mechanics? |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | In V2 it no longer has an LLP; "flying ace" is also an award outside of score. |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | But in v1, Flying Ace was indeed the LLP |
| 02:28 | < Echoes--> | McMartin, right. And that's totally different than "here is a number that doesn't even really affect the game." |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | It's very rare for score to actively affect the game. |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | I can think of one case, and it's widely reviled (the thief in Zork 1) |
| 02:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | How did the thief in Z1 work? |
| 02:30 | < Echoes--> | ToxicFrog, you really are everywhere. |
| 02:31 | < Echoes--> | Anyway, in my game, any number I put it in, I want it to actually mean something. |
| 02:31 | <~Vornicus> | score is not actually a necessary thing in games anyway |
| 02:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | I am? Have we run into each other elsewhere? |
| 02:31 | < Echoes--> | Vornicus, yeah, that's true. |
| 02:32 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: You chance to hit and parry were a function of your score in the randomized combat sequence with the thief, which was actually necessary to do and win to beat the game, unlike every other instance of randomized combat in the Zork series |
| 02:32 | <@macdjord> | Vornicus: But - then how would you demonstrat you are /better/ than other people? QQ |
| 02:32 | < Echoes--> | ToxicFrog, yeah, sometimes. We don't know each other well or anything, though. |
| 02:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: oh lovely. |
| 02:32 | <&McMartin> | (Not counting the Zork variant that really was a bad Wizardry clone) |
| 02:35 | < Echoes--> | I miss those games sometimes. |
| 02:37 | <&McMartin> | They're still around, they didn't vanish~ |
| 02:38 | < Echoes--> | That is true. Now they're all free and whatnot. |
| 02:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Echoes--: alright then! |
| 02:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | (any relation to the Echo who was active on this net lo these many years ago?) |
| 02:38 | < Echoes--> | Nope, I'm not the same person at all. |
| 02:40 | < Echoes--> | I kind of wanted a game similar to Zork, but not. Also, with a multiple party combat system, sort of like Final Fantasy. But, ideas are a dime a dozen, of course. |
| 02:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've only slightly poked at Zork. |
| 02:41 | < Echoes--> | It's a really fantastic game. |
| 02:41 | < Echoes--> | BUt, maybe that's just my nostalgia talking. |
| 02:41 | < Echoes--> | My game would hold your hand a lot more, I think. |
| 02:42 | < Echoes--> | Not like that's even relevant, I'm just excited about my own thing, lol. |
| 02:47 | | * [R] has a 4 CD set of Zork |
| 02:47 | | * [R] hasn't touched it |
| 02:50 | < Echoes--> | But it's Zork.. what did they do, just fill the rest of the CD with music and wallpapers or something? |
| 02:51 | | iospace is now known as io\parents |
| 02:52 | < Echoes--> | Having multiple CDs for seems excessive I guess? Since you can fit all of the games on a floppy. |
| 02:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Echoes--: if it's the whole Zork series, that includes games like Zork Nemesis and Zork Grand Inquisitor that were released on CD and used tech similar to Myst 3. |
| 02:55 | < Echoes--> | Oh hey, that's true. |
| 02:55 | | * Echoes-- is dumb. |
| 02:56 | < Echoes--> | I forgot about those. |
| 02:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm. KSP, or CoQ? |
| 03:01 | < Echoes--> | Games that were not Zork 1-3, lol |
| 03:01 | <&McMartin> | The Enchanter/Sorcerer/Spellbreaker cycle is usually considered to be part of the Zork games as well |
| 03:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | Echoes--: no, sorry, I'm debating what to play before going to bed |
| 03:02 | < Echoes--> | Oh yeah, and I've beaten Enchanter, but not those other ones. I've heard of them, and I mean to play them at some point. |
| 03:03 | < Echoes--> | ToxicFrog, oh, CoQ I guess? |
| 03:03 | | * Echoes-- doesn't even know what that is |
| 03:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | And yeah, I didn't play Zork until quite recently and it doesn't hold up as well if you play it for the first time after playing things like Spider and Web or Slouching Towards Bedlam |
| 03:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Caves of Qud, a post-apocalyptic roguelike in which I am currently playing a four-armed, axe-wielding carapaced mutant. |
| 03:03 | < Echoes--> | lol, right. |
| 03:04 | < Echoes--> | That sounds cool. |
| 03:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is! |
| 03:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | But then, so is KSP |
| 03:09 | < Echoes--> | Good times. |
| 03:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Very. |
| 03:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Probably going to sleep soon, though. Big day tomorrow. |
| 03:10 | < Echoes--> | For sure. |
| 03:10 | < Echoes--> | My "day" just started. |
| 03:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Night shift? |
| 03:13 | < Echoes--> | I wish that were the case. No, my hours just got switched around. Blah. |
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| 03:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh lovely. |
| 03:14 | < Echoes--> | Yeah.. I need to fix that at some point. |
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| 06:54 | < abudhabi> | Argh. |
| 06:54 | < abudhabi> | I have firmware in the form of .fw files. How do I install that shit? |
| 07:04 | < abudhabi> | Nevermind. |
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| 16:39 | < abudhabi> | Java. I have a strange issue, which I've talked about before. |
| 16:39 | < abudhabi> | http://pastie.org/10179884 http://pastie.org/10179885 |
| 16:39 | < abudhabi> | These two stack traces are from the same paint() method in a component of a form I have. |
| 16:40 | < abudhabi> | These two have different ideas where point (0,0) is on the screen. |
| 16:41 | < abudhabi> | The former gets it correctly (as appraised by me), and it does so when called explicitly. |
| 16:41 | < abudhabi> | The latter gets it wrong, and happens implicitly when I, for example, switch a tab in the form. |
| 16:41 | < abudhabi> | Any insight WTF I could be doing wrong here? |
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| 18:36 | <&Derakon> | abudhabi: stack traces aren't really enough information here, but (0, 0) is generally the upper-left corner of the drawing context, which can be a very different location depending on what context you're in. |
| 18:36 | <&Derakon> | For example, when drawing a button it'd be the corner of the button. |
| 18:40 | < abudhabi> | Derakon: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29417898/differences-in-painting-of-component -when-background-timer-is-paused-versus-unpa <- Here's more. |
| 18:55 | <&Derakon> | Mm, I'd say build a demo program that's simpler and still demonstrates the problem. Your code is way too complicated to be readily understood in that question. |
| 18:55 | < abudhabi> | Mhm. |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 10 00:00:03 2015 |