| --- Log opened Wed Apr 29 00:00:06 2015 |
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| 02:50 | | * Vornicus completes a first pass at the factorio tech tree. http://imgur.com/6su9KZP You're ... welcome. |
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| 03:02 | <~Vornicus> | relevant to TF's interests, though mostly just an eyesore: http://imgur.com/6su9KZP |
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| 04:37 | | * Vornicus fiddles with it to see if he can get the tiers separated. |
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| 06:06 | <~Vornicus> | tiers separated. that's ...slightly less of a terrible warren, but dang. |
| 06:08 | <~Vornicus> | http://imgur.com/lYyBKDL |
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| 06:08 | < kourbou> | Heyo, |
| 06:12 | <~Vornicus> | the line routing is... what the fuck is up with the line routing, for one thing. then I'm not sure but I think I want all the passives (things about speed or damage, logistic robot storage, follower robot count, research effectivity, and stack size bonus) over on one side |
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| 06:27 | < macdjord> | <Tarinaky> Always test for null first. |
| 06:27 | < macdjord> | <Tarinaky> Unless the contract says you don't have to. |
| 06:27 | < macdjord> | And even if it does, check anyway, only in an assert statement so it can be optimised away in production. |
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| 09:41 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. |
| 09:46 | | * TheWatcher hums the Policeman's Song from Pirates of Penzance |
| 09:48 | < abudhabi> | What would be a good name for a sort of "sms inbox" web app, which has bells and whistles in addition to sms reception/sending? |
| 09:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, one of the hard ones. |
| 09:49 | <@Tarinaky> | txtbox |
| 09:50 | | * Tarinaky makes full use of the power of her GCSE Media Studies to draw a mindmap. |
| 09:50 | < abudhabi> | MMS is likely to be supported in the FUTAR. |
| 09:51 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi: Isimud |
| 09:51 | <@TheWatcher> | Or maybe Zaqar. |
| 09:52 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. Perhaps something that touches on what the app does, though? |
| 09:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Both do; they're messenger gods |
| 09:54 | <@TheWatcher> | (Isimud is Sumerian, while Zaqar is Mesopotamian) |
| 09:54 | < abudhabi> | Ah. I think that's a bit over the heads of the target demographic. :P |
| 09:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, right |
| 09:55 | <@TheWatcher> | txtslol then. |
| 09:56 | < abudhabi> | Hahaha. |
| 09:56 | <@Tarinaky> | Everything goes on the mindmap, we filter bad ideas later. |
| 09:56 | <@TheWatcher> | MINDMAP ALL THE THINGS |
| 09:57 | | * catadroid curses C++'s lack of reflection |
| 09:59 | <@froztbyte> | abudhabi: "MySMS"? :) |
| 10:00 | <@froztbyte> | or perhaps a couple of the other things that do this |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | (as in, if you just want a thing to do this, there are options already) |
| 10:04 | < abudhabi> | Hm. Is there a term for sms and mms both? |
| 10:07 | <@Tarinaky> | txt |
| 10:08 | < abudhabi> | Ugh. |
| 10:08 | <@TheWatcher> | "Messaging service" is the closest you'll get to a non-colloquial overlapping term; they're different beasts under the hood. |
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| 12:21 | <@gnolam> | abudhabi: Gregor SMSa - Experience a metamorphosis in how you handle your texts |
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| 12:46 | | * Wizard engages in dirty hacks for using dwm smoothlier |
| 12:46 | <@Wizard> | ~/bin $ cat silent |
| 12:46 | <@Wizard> | #!/bin/bash |
| 12:46 | <@Wizard> | $@ 2&>1 1>/dev/null & |
| 12:46 | < abudhabi> | That sounds like animal cruelty. |
| 12:47 | <@Wizard> | Laff |
| 12:50 | < catadroid> | :O |
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| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm having trouble understanding a C macro. |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | #define DECL(x) { #x, (ALCvoid*)(x) } |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | What does '#x' mean? |
| 13:40 | < kourbou|phone> | Hashtag-ex |
| 13:41 | | * Tamber whiffle-bats kourbou. |
| 13:41 | < catalyst> | I believe # stringifies the variable, so just copies it as text into the declaration |
| 13:41 | < catalyst> | although |
| 13:42 | < catalyst> | I might be reading too much into it, you can definitely use # to append text strings to other strings in macros (sometimes ##_ |
| 13:42 | < catalyst> | ) |
| 13:42 | < catalyst> | https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/Stringification.html#Stringification |
| 13:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay, lets back up a step. |
| 13:43 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm trying to find the integral value of an enum/define because I'm interfacing with a C-lib using FFI/Ruby. |
| 13:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Because I'm insane. |
| 13:43 | < catalyst> | sooo, #x takes the string you gave it as the x parameter and copies it verbatim without expanding it further |
| 13:45 | <@Tarinaky> | The particular token I'm looking for is being defined in http://repo.or.cz/w/openal-soft.git/blob/8dfb1bc9dbd7ea95c1837f3a780f574acc4c3b8 d:/Alc/ALc.c |
| 13:45 | <@Tarinaky> | static const ALCenums enumeration[] = { |
| 13:45 | <@Tarinaky> | ... |
| 13:45 | <@Tarinaky> | DECL(ALC_FREQUENCY), |
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| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | It's making an array of function pointers, with names I guess for lookup |
| 13:51 | <@Tarinaky> | Jesus fuck. |
| 13:51 | <@TheWatcher> | DECL(alcCreateContext) becomes { "alcCreateContext", (ALCVoid *)(alcCreateContext) } |
| 13:52 | <@TheWatcher> | so alcFunctions is an array of those things |
| 13:52 | <@Tarinaky> | There isn't an ALC_FREQUENCY function that I can see :/ |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah. |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: You're looking at a different structure. |
| 13:53 | <@TheWatcher> | yeah, the stuff down at 334 uses a different macro |
| 13:53 | <@TheWatcher> | that one is an array of enum names, and their values |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Where's it getting the enum value from :/ |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah! |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Derp |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | ALc.h |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Phew. |
| 13:54 | <@Tarinaky> | I thought I was going to have to chase down the original maintainer with a fire axe. |
| 13:55 | <@Tarinaky> | The answer is 0x1007 |
| 13:56 | <@TheWatcher> | I must admit, that's an interesting approach. |
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| 14:04 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: The fire axe? |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Chainsaw is much less effort. |
| 14:06 | <@Wizard> | "[BUG] cfp consistency error - send" |
| 14:06 | <@Wizard> | <core dump> |
| 14:07 | <@Wizard> | This may or may not be a hiccup in server performance |
| 14:09 | <@Tarinaky> | I think Fire Axe is the IEEE recommended tool for resolving an insufficient documentation error. |
| 14:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Chainsaw might be the preferred option in C++ though. |
| 14:10 | <@Wizard> | "The current maintainer MAY instead use a chainsaw" |
| 14:10 | < catadroid> | huh. I read "BUG" now and think Black, Blue, Green |
| 14:12 | <@Tarinaky> | Or I suppose in C++ it'd be an STL Container template saw<powertool<cutting, custom_blade>,custom_allocator>(petrol) |
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| 14:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Uugh, I can't get my head into this code today |
| 14:41 | <@Wizard> | http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thisworldofours.pdf |
| 14:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Also: my job is weird :/ |
| 14:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Why do I feel like I'm the only person in the world trying to hack together my particular tech stack in my particular problem domain? |
| 14:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Because everyone else who has succeded at it has sublimed. |
| 14:44 | <@Wizard> | That's surprisingly often the case |
| 14:49 | <@Tarinaky> | TheWatcher: They... turned into a gas? |
| 14:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Also, isn't it 'sublimated'? |
| 14:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Iain M Banks, Culture Series reference. |
| 14:51 | <@Tarinaky> | It went over my head. |
| 14:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Individuals or civilisations that become advanced enough, and have chosen to take the step, transfer themselves to several higher dimensions of reality are called "The Sublimed" |
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| 15:20 | <@froztbyte> | Wizard: have you read the other one (Night Watch)? |
| 15:20 | <@froztbyte> | http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thenightwatch.pdf |
| 15:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Other one? There's also http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thesaddestmoment.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/nestofhornets.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/theslowwinter.pdf http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/ToWashItAllAway.pdf |
| 15:22 | <@froztbyte> | so many good ones |
| 15:23 | <@froztbyte> | https://medium.com/message/everything-is-broken-81e5f33a24e1 too |
| 15:23 | <@froztbyte> | and I feel like there's one more which I'm presently forgetting |
| 15:24 | <@Wizard> | froztbyte: Not really |
| 15:24 | <@Wizard> | I thought some might appreciate the article here |
| 15:25 | <@Wizard> | I thought he was really infantile and was not very interested in his work |
| 15:26 | <@froztbyte> | Wizard: well, everything's terrible |
| 15:26 | <@froztbyte> | so there is that |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Mickens is hilariously hyperbolic, but most of the time not actually factually /wrong/ |
| 15:31 | <@TheWatcher> | (except about the PHP developers having souls bit) |
| 15:31 | <@TheWatcher> | (That's bullshit) |
| 15:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Wizard: I feel like you were about to say something profound before the tangent. |
| 15:50 | <@Wizard> | Not really, just not a fan of the apparent attitude |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Hunh? |
| 16:01 | <@Wizard> | Or which tangerine are we peeling here |
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| 17:11 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: The one you are forgetting is http://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks |
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| 17:14 | <@Wizard> | I never liked that one very much either |
| 17:15 | <@Wizard> | Really a bit histrionic |
| 17:17 | < ToxicFrog> | Your histrionic is many other people's amusing hyperbole, I think. |
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| 17:18 | < ToxicFrog> | And, honestly, the stuff he writes about device firmware and driver development in The Night Watch is the gospel truth. |
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| 17:20 | <@Wizard> | Perhaps, I'll give it a look |
| 17:21 | <@Wizard> | But I think he pretty much lost me as a reader when he posited that using regex in textual communication to another developer is a symptom of mild psychosis |
| 17:22 | <@Wizard> | Poe's Law is in effect |
| 17:22 | < ToxicFrog> | ...no, it really isn't. Just read some of his non-comedic work and you can see the difference. |
| 17:30 | < ToxicFrog> | (The Night Watch is probably my favourite, but that's also because it's the one most relevant to my work at BCSI) |
| 17:31 | <&McMartin> | I was very unimpressed by "everything is broken" because one of its core theses is, basically, "abstraction is bad" |
| 17:34 | <&McMartin> | Of course no single person understands every aspect of the product. That's been a defining feature of every complex system since probably the Industrial revolution, if even that late |
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| 20:30 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: indeed, thanks |
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| 20:48 | <@Wizard> | https://plus.google.com/u/0/110981030061712822816/posts/KaSKeg4vQtz |
| 20:48 | <@Wizard> | Interesting thought |
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| 20:51 | <@Tamber> | ooh, goodie; Yegge. :) |
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| 20:57 | | * McMartin rereads The Night Watch |
| 20:57 | <&McMartin> | Oh, right |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | I did not object to his belief that PHP programmers may have souls; he was clear that this was an article of faith |
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| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | I did object to his classification of LISP as being an impossibly high-level language that hides away things like pointers |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | That you can't teach hardware about |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | Because "box and pointer diagrams" are not just for show, the Lisp Machine was absolutely a thing, and on top of all that, the infamous car and cdr functions are literally "contents of address/decrement register" |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | Also fuck parsing, raw textual representations of ASTs for everyone |
| 20:59 | < ToxicFrog> | \o/ |
| 21:00 | <@Tamber> | :) |
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| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | "One time I tried to create a list<map<int>> and my syntax errors caused the dead to walk among the living" is not an *intrinsic* problem, that's just C++ sucking in ways that C does not~ |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 30 00:00:22 2015 |