| --- Log opened Tue Apr 14 00:00:02 2015 |
| 00:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hee |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | So that was from a discussion of entity-property systems |
| 00:11 | <&McMartin> | And I've been playing with Rust some, which inherits typeclasses from Haskell, sort of |
| 00:11 | <&McMartin> | It seems like typeclasses aren't a super-convenient way to attack entity-property systems, because they're purely static in ways that you don't want these systems to be. |
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| 00:27 | <@Reiv> | ... if Rust inherents *anything* from Haskell, it now officially has my interest. |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | The capsule description of Rust is "what you get if you try to hybridize Haskell and C" |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | So you should maybe have a look at it now that it's in beta and the API is relatively stable |
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| 00:45 | <@Reiv> | ... a hybrid of Haskell and /C/ |
| 00:45 | <@Reiv> | Of all the languages to hybridise with |
| 00:46 | <@Reiv> | "Oh, yeah, we decided to hybridise ruby with assembly" |
| 00:47 | < Shiz> | I think C is a bit of a misnomer to compare |
| 00:47 | < Shiz> | i think 'low-level haskell' is more appropriate |
| 00:47 | < Shiz> | well, and it's a bit more imperative |
| 00:47 | < Shiz> | :P |
| 00:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: no, it makes total sense |
| 00:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Since the whole point of Rust is to be a language you can use for low-level programming, but with modern language features |
| 00:57 | <@Reiv> | hm |
| 00:57 | <@Reiv> | "Modern language features" coming from /haskell/? |
| 00:57 | <@Reiv> | An interesting choice |
| 00:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | (indeed you can build it with ABI compatibility with C and thus use it anywhere you would use C) |
| 01:00 | < Shiz> | how is haskell not a modern language |
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| 01:07 | <~Vornicus> | more like: haskell is the modern language that shares the absolute least with C |
| 01:16 | < Shiz> | well that's why i said C was a misnomer |
| 01:16 | < Shiz> | :3 |
| 01:35 | | * Vornicus was more explaining reiv's disbelief |
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| 09:09 | | * gnolam arghs at translation. |
| 09:11 | <@gnolam> | Apparently, I need to start checking the translations myself... |
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| 09:29 | <&McMartin> | Belated: I picked C there because Rust lacks most features we associate with Simula or Smalltalk-descended OO, instead using Traits, which are v. Haskell |
| 09:30 | <&McMartin> | I do not pick ML because Haskell already gave us ADTs and H-M type inference and Rust's approach to mutation is noticably more Algoloid than ML's. |
| 09:47 | <@Tarinaky> | Today in politics: right-to-buy is back... |
| 09:51 | <@TheWatcher> | 9.9 |
| 09:54 | <@Reiv> | whut |
| 09:57 | <@TheWatcher> | right to buy was a scheme introduced by Thatcher back in 1980, allowed tennants in council houses and some property association houses to buy the house they were living in for half to tw thirds of market price, with mortgages that required no deposits |
| 09:58 | <&McMartin> | Ah, so, a privatization scheme for public housing? |
| 09:58 | <@TheWatcher> | Pretty much |
| 09:59 | <&McMartin> | Kind of funny, as a minor kerfuffle in American politics lately has involved, basically, "patrons have certain antidiscrimination rights in public-facing businesses", which one could *also* imagine being called "right-to-buy" elsewhere. |
| 10:01 | <@Tarinaky> | For right or wrong the policy is blamed for the current lack of social housing in many areas of the UK |
| 10:01 | | * McMartin nods |
| 10:01 | <&McMartin> | I can well imagine |
| 10:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Where social housing was bought for nothing in areas that then underwent mass gentrification. |
| 10:02 | <@TheWatcher> | There was some restriction of the scheme during the late 90s//early 00s - especially in London - with reduced discounts, but the conservatives actually upped it again so that now you can get up to 60% off market price for houses, 70% for flats. |
| 10:02 | <@Tarinaky> | So err... I think the Tories /might/ have actually gone full retard this morning. |
| 10:02 | <&McMartin> | Heh. |
| 10:02 | <@TheWatcher> | (In Scotland, they're going to abolish the scehem entirely by 2017) |
| 10:06 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm unsure anyone actually reads the manifestos though. |
| 10:08 | <@TheWatcher> | When I want to read fiction, I prefer an actually well-written book~ |
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| 10:23 | <@Tarinaky> | I need to try and remember where I put my polling card: forgot what my polling station was. |
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| 10:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: if you can't find it, you should be able to phone your local electoral registration office and ask them |
| 10:29 | <@Tarinaky> | I'll bare that in mind. |
| 10:29 | <&Reiver> | That scheme sounds an immensely positive one, if it were combined with a continual expansion of actual private housing. |
| 10:29 | <&Reiver> | Oh, wait. >_> |
| 10:29 | <&Reiver> | :p |
| 10:30 | <@Tarinaky> | Which the council then can't afford to buy because selling the homes into the private sector allows them to be sold on again which allows gentrification as there're fewer 'undesirables' living there. |
| 10:30 | <@Tarinaky> | To keep the prices down. |
| 10:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Which then means they're replacing their social housing stock with housing on the other side of the country that's neither use nor ornament to the working poor. |
| 10:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Full retard. |
| 10:34 | <@TheWatcher> | but then, the tories have made absolutely no secret of the fact that they utterly hate and despise the working poor, or indeed anyone below middle-middle class, and they would very much like for all those uppity poor people to starve and die in a hovel. |
| 10:36 | <@Tarinaky> | I'd argue they are very effectively making a secret of that fact. |
| 10:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Since they got into office in 2010 off the back of promoting themselves as the party of the working poor. |
| 10:36 | <@Tarinaky> | And are still doing that now. |
| 10:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Albeit with less success. |
| 10:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Most of their cuts and nonsense has been towards the infirm and the vulnerable/homeless. |
| 10:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Particularly those with mental health, anxiety and neurological problems. |
| 10:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Because if you can't see someone's illness they must be faking it -.- |
| 10:46 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm going to stop ranting now. |
| 10:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Because now I'm getting cross. |
| 10:58 | <@gnolam> | "For many deceivers are entered into the house of Israel; because they were constrained by the applicative-order evaluation of Scheme. " |
| 10:59 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wut |
| 11:00 | <&McMartin> | King James Programming, I imagine |
| 11:00 | <@Tarinaky> | What would be the name of a library which given a set of audio files associated with 3D coordinates would be able to construct the matching microphone tracks for a set of point listeners located in the 3D space? |
| 11:00 | <&McMartin> | A Markov generator fed on the KJV and SICP. |
| 11:00 | <&McMartin> | Tarinaky: As in ambient sounds in a normal setup, or like full surround sound madness/awesomeness? |
| 11:01 | <&McMartin> | (And are you asking for the name of a class of products, or for product recommendations?) |
| 11:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Both would be welcome. |
| 11:01 | <@Tarinaky> | It's for simulation. |
| 11:02 | <&McMartin> | I think this is actually a standard feature of audio engines |
| 11:02 | <&McMartin> | And I'm almost positive that FMOD does this or can be made to do it |
| 11:02 | <&McMartin> | (FMOD powers a bunch of stuff including but not limited to Unity) |
| 11:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Don't most of those only affect the attenuation? |
| 11:02 | <@Tarinaky> | I need the phase to be correct. |
| 11:03 | <&McMartin> | Wait, are you trying to simulate destructive interference &c? |
| 11:03 | <@Tarinaky> | Yes. |
| 11:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I... do cool shit at work. |
| 11:04 | <&McMartin> | I'm not aware of any of those. |
| 11:04 | <@TheWatcher> | I hope you like writing 3D sound simulation code, then~ |
| 11:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Damn. |
| 11:04 | <&McMartin> | Cool for doing cool shit, though. I'd think you'd need to simulate not just sound but also, like, the speed of sound through various materials and what it means when it hits those |
| 11:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, I don't for what I need. |
| 11:06 | <&McMartin> | My DSP (ASP?) might be weak here; how can you get phase from distance without the properties of the speed of sound? |
| 11:06 | <&McMartin> | ... and come to think of it |
| 11:06 | <@Tarinaky> | By assuming a constant. |
| 11:06 | <&McMartin> | Is it possible to get phase from the more typical attenuation values by adding an offset constant to the sound based on physical distance? |
| 11:07 | <@Tarinaky> | That would... probably match my solution if I can't find code someone else has already written. |
| 11:07 | <&McMartin> | It's late/early here (woo, doing a schedule shift over here, it is a party) but that seems like it might be something you can actually tweak on the fly with traditional engines |
| 11:08 | <&McMartin> | ... oh dang |
| 11:08 | <&McMartin> | That'll simulate *doppler* |
| 11:08 | <&McMartin> | (As I said, my DSP is weak, I'm pretty sure that's obvious given the rest~) |
| 11:08 | <@Tarinaky> | Doppler would be changing the frequency. |
| 11:09 | <&McMartin> | Right, so, won't that happen "automatically" if your time-shift constant is shifting regularly as well thanks to continuous motion? |
| 11:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Not a feature I need. |
| 11:09 | <@Tarinaky> | I can just insert 'dead air' into the start of the track. |
| 11:09 | <&McMartin> | Oh, is this a static location? |
| 11:10 | <@Tarinaky> | And multiply sample-wise by the attenuation. |
| 11:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Yes. |
| 11:10 | <&McMartin> | Dammit, wiki |
| 11:10 | <&McMartin> | I'm poking around audio engines here |
| 11:11 | <&McMartin> | There are links to some kind of comprehensive survey of audio engines by Alex Brandon |
| 11:11 | <&McMartin> | And the links are all dead ;_; |
| 11:11 | <&McMartin> | (Alexander Brandon being one of the legends of game music) |
| 11:13 | <@Tarinaky> | I may be best off just hand rolling a prototype in Ruby and converting it into C/C++ for speed. Since it doesn't need to run in anything like realtime. |
| 11:13 | | * McMartin nods |
| 11:13 | <&McMartin> | I think I'd certainly start with the time delay thing |
| 11:14 | <&McMartin> | And then attenuation is probably not hard since you also have distance info anyway |
| 11:14 | <@Tarinaky> | Although the math I'm looking at here for attenuation make it a function of frequency. |
| 11:14 | <@Tarinaky> | Which is... unhelpful... |
| 11:15 | <&McMartin> | Mmm. For that being able to license something like FMOD might help, and OpenAL might even do it |
| 11:16 | <&McMartin> | (My burbling before was "if you computed time offsets into each sample's playback based on its position, and recomputed each time the position changed, this would actually simulate the Doppler effect as an emergent property") |
| 11:16 | <&McMartin> | But as you said, you aren't moving |
| 11:17 | <&McMartin> | http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/game-programming/programming-3 d-sound-with-openal-in-windows-r1958 |
| 11:17 | <&McMartin> | OpenAL's API sounds kind of close to what you want but I bet it doesn't do phase. |
| 11:18 | <&McMartin> | I... I might be wrong |
| 11:18 | <@Tarinaky> | I wonder if I could do the attenuation on the frequency-domain representation then ifft back to the time domain... |
| 11:18 | <&McMartin> | That seems like the right way to do it. |
| 11:19 | <&McMartin> | Aha, OK, OpenAL apparently fakes the doppler effect, by having you feed it a pretend velocity |
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| 11:21 | <@Tarinaky> | I love that I have a job where I get to do cool shit with Linear Algebra in C :D |
| 11:22 | <&McMartin> | Is BLAS still a thing? |
| 11:23 | <@Tarinaky> | Not a clue. |
| 11:24 | <&McMartin> | Apparently so, but it's bundled into larger packages quietly now. |
| 11:24 | <&McMartin> | "They were first published as a Fortran library in 1979[1] and are still used as a building block in higher-level math programming languages and libraries, including LINPACK, LAPACK, MATLAB,[2] GNU Octave, Mathematica,[3] NumPy[4] and R." |
| 11:51 | | * TheWatcher pokes at modifying CKEditor's image dialog, hrms |
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| 12:09 | <@Tarinaky> | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32297367 << Neat puzzle. |
| 12:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Although I found the wording confusing. |
| 12:31 | <@gnolam> | Is the actual question even in there? :P |
| 12:32 | <@gnolam> | Skimmed it, and all I saw was what random idiots on twitter thought about it. |
| 12:33 | <@TheWatcher> | It was in an image at the top of the article... which no longer appears to be there. |
| 12:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Well that sucks if the image is gone :/ |
| 12:35 | | * Tarinaky goes looks for a mirror |
| 12:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Here appears to be a better version: http://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/cheryl-birthday-puz zle-math-viral-blog.jpg |
| 12:40 | | * Tarinaky giggles. |
| 12:41 | <@Tarinaky> | "Clegg: Tory housing pledge 'poor cover' of Thatcher hit" |
| 13:25 | < [R]> | That puzzle assumes that Albert is capable of stating the factual reality rather than merely what he believes to be true. Since this is a non-mortal ability, and he shares a social circle with Cheryl, Cheryl's birthday is concievably all ten dates. |
| 13:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah. I generally hate 'logic' puzzles like that, because they only work under contrived circumstances that rely on you making assumptions about the knowledge, abilities, or attributes of the things involved in the puzzle. |
| 13:28 | < [R]> | at once+* |
| 13:29 | < abudhabi> | Mhm. |
| 13:29 | | * McMartin ties the inventor of trolley problems to a falling nuclear bomb aimed at an orphanage full of children who will group up to be Hitler |
| 13:29 | < abudhabi> | All of them? |
| 13:29 | <&McMartin> | Indeed |
| 13:29 | < [R]> | It's a non-mortal ability |
| 13:29 | <&McMartin> | Thus being extra-evil |
| 13:29 | <&McMartin> | Because you know who else killed Hitler, right |
| 13:30 | < abudhabi> | Hitler? |
| 13:30 | <&McMartin> | That's right! |
| 13:30 | <&McMartin> | (Other acceptable answers include "Commander Keen's grandpa") |
| 13:31 | < abudhabi> | (That one scientist in Red Alert...) |
| 13:31 | <&McMartin> | (That was Albert Einstein) |
| 13:31 | < abudhabi> | (Was it? I don't recall the intro that well.) |
| 13:31 | <&McMartin> | (I guess I also have to accept that answer) |
| 13:32 | <&McMartin> | In the past, with a JOYBUZZER OF DOOM |
| 13:35 | <@TheWatcher> | tangentially appropriate: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3266 |
| 13:35 | <&McMartin> | Man that could be like three before I click |
| 13:35 | <&McMartin> | Ah yes, that one |
| 13:35 | | * [R] is pretty sure the actual answer is June 18 or May 19 |
| 13:35 | < [R]> | Don't know which one though |
| 13:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Apparently Sue Perkins has been getting death threats from boy racers after an unsubstantiated rumour was started that she could be a new host for Top Gear. |
| 13:36 | < abudhabi> | July 16 according to whosit. |
| 13:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Because boys just can't cope with women in their club house. |
| 13:37 | < abudhabi> | I don't understand the explanation. |
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| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | A knows the month. And knows B has the day. He confidently announces that while he knows not which day it is he knows with certainty B cannot know either - which tells the audience that the month can only hold day-numbers that appear in multiple months. |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | This narrows it down to two months. |
| 13:39 | <@Tarinaky> | With this information, B knows that the day only occurs in one of those two months. |
| 13:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Further, since A is able to deduce that since B knows this the answer cannot be in the intersection between those two months. |
| 13:42 | <@Tarinaky> | And knows the month |
| 13:42 | <@Tarinaky> | A can deduce the date |
| 13:42 | <@Tarinaky> | And since A can deduce the date, that excludes all bar one permutation in the minds of the audience. |
| 13:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Something like that anyway. |
| 13:43 | < abudhabi> | I stand by my statement. |
| 13:52 | | * Tarinaky goes back to trying to figure out how the complex phase of the DFT corresponds to the phase of the time-domain signal. |
| 14:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh. This formula uses omega for frequency but it doesn't establish whether it's angular frequency or not. |
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| 14:22 | < gnolam_> | Tarinaky: if it's omega, it's always angular. |
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| 14:29 | <@Tarinaky> | "If it's only people working 30 hours a week on the minimum wage who pay no income tax then it's not a 'tax free minimum wage' really is it?" -- Twitter |
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| 17:46 | < kourbou|phone> | I was curious: what do you host on starforge.co.uk apart from the pastebin? |
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| 17:48 | <@Tamber> | Wouldn't *you* like to know. ;) |
| 17:48 | < kourbou|phone> | lol |
| 17:49 | <@Tamber> | It's got all of the Watcher's stuff on it. But beware, he's watching. |
| 17:50 | | * kourbou|phone shivers. |
| 17:50 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 38 nicks [25 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal] |
| 17:50 | <@TheWatcher> | Tsk |
| 17:51 | <@TheWatcher> | Also: many things. |
| 17:52 | < kourbou|phone> | Such as? xD |
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| 18:10 | < kourbou|phone> | aj? |
| 18:10 | < kourbou|phone> | Oops wrong chat. |
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| 22:59 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 22:59 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 23:10 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:10 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
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| 23:17 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
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| 23:21 | | mode/#code [+o thalass] by ChanServ |
| 23:42 | | kourbou|zzz [kourbou@Nightstar-deqg8j.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| --- Log closed Wed Apr 15 00:00:19 2015 |