| --- Log opened Fri Jan 16 00:00:25 2015 |
| 00:03 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:04 | <&Derakon> | My coworker and I wasted about an hour today trying, unsuccessfully mind you, to deal with Windows' inability to handle path lengths longer than 256 characters. |
| 00:05 | <&Derakon> | (Trying to transfer an SVN repository that includes a substantial portion of Boost) |
| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | Oh |
| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | I was going to say "prefix the path with \\?\ and use only backslashes as separators" |
| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | That handles pathnames up to 65536 UTF-16 characters. |
| 00:05 | <&Derakon> | Tried that, or at least the \\?\ |
| 00:06 | <&Derakon> | Maybe my coworker used /, I don't remember. |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | \\?\ paths do not treat / as a path separator |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | If SVN's internals use / freely, that doesn't help |
| 00:07 | | * Derakon shrugs. |
| 00:10 | <&Derakon> | Thanks for the heads-up; sent my coworker an email. |
| 00:10 | <&Derakon> | Maybe it'll help. |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | My vague memory is that if properly handed the path prefixes, os.path.join and friends do continue to work properly in Python on Windows, but I haven't tested it in extremis. |
| 00:20 | | Thalasleep is now known as Thalass |
| 01:20 | <@gnolam> | Unless you use something actually useful, like pypyodbc. |
| 01:20 | <@gnolam> | Which rejects your spaceless reality and substitutes its own. |
| 01:21 | <@gnolam> | (I have no idea why.) |
| 01:22 | <@gnolam> | (There is /literally/ no reason why paths with spaces shouldn't work in it, but they don't. Not without extra quotes.) |
| 01:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | (turns out that it's shelling out to some windows program~) |
| 01:25 | <@gnolam> | (Those have no problems with spaces. Only *n?x problems do.) |
| 02:19 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 02:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | (windows command line parsing is a clusterfuck of ad-hoc, program-specific fuckery. I would not merely worry but expect that the command line gets split incorrectly.) |
| 02:33 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 03:01 | | Checkmate [Z@Nightstar-484uip.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 03:01 | | mode/#code [+o Checkmate] by ChanServ |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | (CommandLineToArgvW is the One True Way) |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | (There are also several dozen false paths) |
| 03:44 | < Syka> | oh no windows CLI |
| 03:44 | < Syka> | i like how cmd.exe is still the best there really is |
| 03:46 | < Syka> | so not only do you have wacky clis, but the way you interact with them is all kdjgbdfg |
| 03:51 | <&McMartin> | Windows 10 cmd.exe will at least bring it into the twentieth century |
| 03:51 | <&McMartin> | Maybe even the early 21st |
| 03:51 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 03:51 | < Syka> | :O I can't wait |
| 03:52 | <&McMartin> | The MSYS bash shell isn't awful but it also doesn't usually play well with other components |
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| 04:10 | <&McMartin> | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/09/windows-10-command-prompt- finally-gets-dragged-into-the-21st-century/ |
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| 08:50 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. Will the same magnet stick harder to a plate of sheet iron than a film of iron foil? |
| 08:50 | < gizmore> | why don´t you try it out? |
| 08:52 | < abudhabi> | I have none of the three items with me. |
| 08:53 | < abudhabi> | I'm just curious how magnets work. :V |
| 08:59 | < gizmore> | this question has been asked a lot on the net lately |
| 09:00 | < gizmore> | "magnets. how do they work?!" |
| 09:11 | <@Azash> | Now here's a quiz for those who haven't heard about this bug yet |
| 09:12 | <@Azash> | In the Steam Linux client |
| 09:12 | <@Azash> | STEAMROOT="$(cd "${0%/*}" && echo $PWD)" |
| 09:12 | <@Azash> | [...] |
| 09:12 | <@Azash> | rm -rf "$STEAMROOT/"* |
| 09:15 | < abudhabi> | Why are you deleting Steam? |
| 09:15 | < abudhabi> | (Aside from draining your money, that is.) |
| 09:16 | < gizmore> | sudo rm -rf "$STEAMROOT/"* |
| 09:17 | < AverageJoe> | yup |
| 09:19 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 09:24 | <@Azash> | Wait, it had sudo too? |
| 09:24 | <@Azash> | Oh boy |
| 09:24 | <@Azash> | abudhabi: Probably uninstalling, though I recall someone mentioning a --reset parameter |
| 09:31 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-de4ll6.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
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| 10:12 | <@Tarinaky> | Well as long as you don't allow rm to be sudo'd without a password it'll halt rather than do the potentially dangerous action?# |
| 10:12 | <@Tarinaky> | Or is there a sudo bug? |
| 10:19 | | * abudhabi slogs through CodeAcademy. |
| 10:20 | < abudhabi> | Is every course, not just Javascript, an introduction to programming? |
| 10:21 | < AverageJoe> | seems that way dont it? |
| 10:21 | < AverageJoe> | took me years later to focus on the higher aspects of coding on my own |
| 10:22 | < AverageJoe> | like threading and performance tweaks |
| 10:22 | < AverageJoe> | The mere concept of your main window just hanging while something happens gives me shudders of my former noobom |
| 10:22 | < AverageJoe> | s/noodom/noobdom/ |
| 10:22 | < abudhabi> | No, I mean CodeAcademy specifically. The course is Javascript, but the first few dozen exercises hold very little new information to someone who's coded in anything resembling C before. |
| 10:22 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: I presume if the line has sudo, which nobody mentioned and the ticket name implied was not the case, the script would also have a way to use it |
| 10:23 | <@Azash> | abudhabi: It's mainly an intro to syntax and some other basic stuff but considering Javascript's chaotic stupid alignment I would persevere anyway |
| 10:23 | < abudhabi> | I've learned what the syntax for function declaration is. And that Javascript uses === instead of ==. Yet I'm reluctant to skip because I might miss stuff like the === thing. |
| 10:23 | < AverageJoe> | its meant to help the newbs |
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| 11:33 | <@Azash> | http://i.imgur.com/jzRHbrj.jpg |
| 11:34 | | * abudhabi sniggers. |
| 11:37 | <@gnolam> | And error code of the day goes to "Puncher needs reset" |
| 11:39 | < abudhabi> | Puncher needs food badly. |
| 11:40 | <@Azash> | Get ye punch |
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| 12:29 | <@gnolam> | Actually, I change my mind. Error code of the day goes to "Portal communication malfunction". |
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| 12:33 | < abudhabi> | Better get your crowbar. |
| 12:35 | < abudhabi> | "Move 'var' declarations to the top of the function." <- What the fuck does this error message mean? |
| 12:35 | < abudhabi> | It complains about "for (var i=0;i<text.length;i++) {". |
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| 12:49 | <@gnolam> | https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671 |
| 13:17 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. Typing Dvorak-like while being accidentally QWERTY produces a simple cipher. |
| 13:19 | <@TheWatcher> | One of these days I should learn dvorak |
| 13:22 | < abudhabi> | "Come with me if you want to live" becomes "Ismd ,gkj md gy tsf ,alk ks pg.d". |
| 13:33 | < abudhabi> | You can, of course, do the same with these layouts reversed. |
| 13:34 | < abudhabi> | "Come with me if you want to live" becomes "Jrm. ,cyd m. cu frg ,aby yr nck.". |
| 13:44 | | * abudhabi is amused by how mangled I had to make this function for the auto-checker at CodeAcademy to accept it as valid. |
| 13:44 | < abudhabi> | http://pastie.org/9835244 |
| 13:46 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wat |
| 13:47 | < abudhabi> | They wanted an if-else block. I gave them a comparison. They didn't think of that. :P |
| 13:47 | <@TheWatcher> | hah |
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| 13:53 | <@gnolam> | TheWatcher: an entirely useless skill. |
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| 13:54 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh? |
| 13:54 | < abudhabi> | TheWatcher: Heed not the infidel! |
| 14:04 | <@gnolam> | See e.g. http://reason.com/archives/1996/06/01/typing-errors/1 |
| 14:04 | <@gnolam> | TL;DR: Dvorak is bollocks. |
| 14:06 | <@gnolam> | Its claims of superiority are based on biased and uncontrolled tests. |
| 14:07 | <@gnolam> | But training improves your speed on any layout, so train your regular QWERTY. And then you don't have to switch keyboard layouts. |
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| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | gnolam: speed isn't an issue for me, RSI is |
| 14:10 | <@gnolam> | Same deal. |
| 14:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Fair 'nuff. |
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| 16:23 | <@celticminstrel> | ...is "destroy and reconstruct" a bad idiom to use? |
| 16:23 | <@celticminstrel> | That is, something like x.~TypeOfX(); new(&x) TypeOfX(); |
| 17:26 | <@Tarinaky> | Probably. |
| 17:26 | <@Tarinaky> | .reset() should probably be preferred. |
| 17:26 | <@Tarinaky> | Because memory allocation is expensive. |
| 17:27 | <@Tarinaky> | And depending on the type of x, .reset could be as simple as resetting a sentry. |
| 17:35 | <@celticminstrel> | There's no memory allocation involved in that... |
| 17:36 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not familiar with the language then. |
| 17:36 | <@celticminstrel> | It's C++. |
| 17:36 | <@Tarinaky> | new is a C++ keyword that allocates memory on the heap. |
| 17:36 | <@celticminstrel> | That syntax is placement new, which calls the constructor on an existing memory block. |
| 17:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh |
| 17:36 | <@Tarinaky> | I Did Not Known THat. |
| 17:37 | <@celticminstrel> | Placement new and explicit destructor calls are kind of arcane. >_> |
| 17:37 | <@Tarinaky> | .reset lets you specialise though. |
| 17:37 | <@Tarinaky> | For optimisations. |
| 17:38 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not quite sure what you mean by .reset() - are you thinking of the smart pointer classes? |
| 17:38 | <@Tarinaky> | There's no guarentee that the destructor/constructor pair won't deallocate/allocate resources behind the scenes. |
| 17:38 | <@celticminstrel> | True. |
| 17:38 | <@celticminstrel> | The class contains things like maps, vectors, and strings. |
| 17:39 | <@Tarinaky> | The STL containers all have functions to reset them to a 0-element version of themselves. |
| 17:39 | <@Tarinaky> | But just generically. |
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| 17:43 | <@celticminstrel> | The actual issue is that I have a class that contains members which need to be able to access other members of the class, so I'm putting references in various places. |
| 17:44 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe there's a better way to do this. |
| 17:44 | <@Tarinaky> | That sounds like bad design. |
| 17:44 | <@Tarinaky> | And I don't mean that in a mean way: just a code smell. |
| 17:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Mm. |
| 17:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Though, you could say it's a bit like Java inner classes. |
| 17:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Im having difficulty saying anything useful with the information I have... |
| 17:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Can you not regenerate the other members from an authoratative source like the owning container? |
| 17:50 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not quite sure what you mean. |
| 17:50 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not quite sure what the problem is :/ |
| 17:50 | <@celticminstrel> | The Party class contains several Characters. Some Character member functions must access members of the enclosing Party. |
| 17:50 | <@celticminstrel> | (There's more than that, but that's the most immediate one.) |
| 17:51 | <@celticminstrel> | (Also, those aren't the actual class names in the code.) |
| 17:51 | <@Tarinaky> | (I got that) |
| 17:51 | <@Tarinaky> | And what operation are you trying to perform? |
| 17:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm? |
| 17:53 | <@celticminstrel> | For example, when giving a Character an item, if it's gold, it has to be transferred to the party's gold pool. Is that what you're asking? |
| 17:54 | <@Tarinaky> | That requires a pointer to the owning Party class, not another character. |
| 17:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Yes. |
| 17:54 | <@Tarinaky> | So why do you need pointers to the other characters? |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't. |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | At least, I don't think I do. |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh, of the enclosing arty |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | I misread. |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay. |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | So. |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | That said, if I have a pointer to the owning Party class, I can access the other characters as well. |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay, what's the transform that lead to you performing an in-place allocation? |
| 17:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Actually, you might have a slight point here. I'm using references, but if I used pointers it might make things a bit simpler. |
| 17:56 | <@celticminstrel> | The answer to that question is the references. |
| 17:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Which gives me a choice of either in-place destroy-and-reconstruct or write my own copy assignment operator. |
| 17:56 | <@Tarinaky> | Also: if the party is changing, not the characters, that'd imply the characters own the party: not the other way around surely? |
| 17:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Huh? |
| 17:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Well you're doing an in-place destroy and reconstruct. Which means you're creating a new, different, party... |
| 17:58 | <@Tarinaky> | If the party owns the characters, destruction implies the Characters leave memory as well |
| 17:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Actually I was doing in-place destroy-and-reconstruct of a Character. |
| 17:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah. |
| 17:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Who has the pointer to the character? |
| 17:58 | <@celticminstrel> | The Character is contained by the Party. |
| 17:59 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not a pointer. |
| 17:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Though I suppose that could change. |
| 17:59 | <@Tarinaky> | So you .reset the character to take it back to a blank state smartly... |
| 17:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Or you tell the party to remove the character. |
| 18:00 | <@Tarinaky> | And as an optimisation you can have the party mark the character as deleted instead of actually deleting it. |
| 18:00 | <@Tarinaky> | And reuse the memory later for the new character if you're so inclined |
| 18:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, technically, that optimization is already in place since it's still a basic fixed-length array. |
| 18:03 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not quite sure whether what you said is supposed to be an observation or a suggestion. |
| 18:04 | <@Tarinaky> | IDK. I'm sure you probably have more years and experience under your belt. |
| 18:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe? |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | But if the party owns the characters then allocation/deallocation/creation of characters is the responsibility of the Party? |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | So you remove() the character, and add() a new one. |
| 18:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, that's probably how it should be. |
| 18:05 | <@celticminstrel> | This was originally written in C. |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah. |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Godspeed |
| 18:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Thanks? |
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| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | This function's fully qualified name and signature is 2,534 characters long. |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | Eat your heart out, Java, C++ rules the roost here. |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | (It's a function called by the std::string constructor) |
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| 23:50 | <@celticminstrel> | For verbosity? |
| --- Log closed Sat Jan 17 00:00:41 2015 |