| --- Log opened Sat Jan 03 00:00:45 2015 |
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| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey. Rust has a projected 1.0 date of February this year. |
| 00:16 | <&McMartin> | That is considerably sooner than I expected |
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| 01:18 | <@Alek> | Rust? one of those new survival games? |
| 01:19 | <@Alek> | at first I was thinking of that game that was like 50GB and needed a top-end GPU at release, but then remembered that was Rage. I think. |
| 01:21 | <@Tamber> | Rust, the programming language, I'd guess. |
| 01:21 | <@Alek> | ohkay. |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, what Tamber said |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | It's a very aggressive attempt to be a cross between a systems programming language and a modern functional-type language, and the pain points seem to not be what I'd expect |
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| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | They're using type inference to enforce heap consistency, which is a technique my old research group was experimenting with ten to fifteen years ago |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | It's pretty restrictive in the general case, but if you can design around it it is super-handy |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Rust is built around it and they're getting away with more than they expected |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | They're also doing mutability OCaml style and multiple inheritance Haskell style |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | It will be *very interesting* to see how much they ultimately get away with |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | (I am completely on board with the former and the latter will be great if they can get away with it - "Let's cross C and Haskell" generally seems like it's going to involve both a lot of tesla coils and a lot of radioactive spiders) |
| 01:26 | < JBeshir> | I find Rust interesting but am comfortable waiting until they decide they're done and they've worked out how to make it an effective tool before trying to determine if it works for anything I want to do. |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 01:28 | <&McMartin> | That is why I was surprised to learn that they expected to think they were basically done with the important parts next Februrary. |
| 01:29 | < JBeshir> | Sounds good to me. |
| 01:29 | < JBeshir> | I've known about it as a project for a long time now, and it actually struck me that it was progressing fairly slowly because of the complexity of what they were trying to do. |
| 01:29 | < JBeshir> | It's good to see they didn't get bogged down. |
| 01:30 | <&McMartin> | I will probably take a look at it once it's Really Out and try to do something that stresses its assumptions. I'm thinking "arbitrary graph library", which ownership types are traditionally very bad at. |
| 01:30 | <&McMartin> | I think I can make it work with cursors instead of pointers though. |
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| 07:46 | | * McMartin loses patience with Go and it's total schizophrenia about where pointer types are or are not OK and where they are treated as value types by the syntax and where not. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | s/it's/its/ |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | I am so impatient I cannot fail to greengrocer |
| 08:07 | <&jeroud> | McMartin: How do you find Go's import system? |
| 08:08 | <&McMartin> | Do you mean the part where you aren't allowed to include things you don't use, the part where FQNs lose their F, or the part where you're supposed to put stable download URLs in the names |
| 08:10 | <&McMartin> | But no, it's the batshittery with the distinction between pointers to interfaces vs. interfaces, as opposed to pointer to struct vs struct |
| 08:11 | <&McMartin> | Where the latter you can refer to them syntactically as if there is no difference, but the former you cannot |
| 08:12 | <&McMartin> | It is also apparently illegal to treat interfaces as if they were notional supertypes |
| 08:14 | <&McMartin> | (Re the three things I listed, though, the first is a thing I like, the second is slightly annoying but can be trivially worked around, and the third is hilarious but a property of go-get, not Go itself) |
| 08:19 | <&McMartin> | But the end result is that it is not clear to me that breaking this little project up into packages has actually improved its modularity any. |
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| 08:31 | <&jerith> | I ask mostly because that's the loudest objection I've seen to Go. |
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| 09:20 | <&McMartin> | My loudest objection so far is that it pretends to be way more generic than it is |
| 09:21 | <&McMartin> | I'm OK with the import system because, at core, it is the compiler demanding you stop being sloppy |
| 09:21 | <&McMartin> | However, Go's idea of "sloppy" doesn't quite match up with anybody else's. |
| 09:22 | <&McMartin> | In particular, types that you are using, but are only using because of return values whose types are autodeclared with the := operator, count as "not being used" |
| 09:22 | <&McMartin> | And this is apparently an excuse for making functions have to return the lowest absolute type they in fact return |
| 09:22 | <&McMartin> | I am not so far seeing how you could meaningfully do a polymorphic factory but perhaps they intend you to architect around that. |
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| 13:17 | | * thalass eyes this, finds it interesting https://medium.com/@shazow/ssh-how-does-it-even-9e43586e4ffc <-- |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jan 04 00:00:01 2015 |