code logs -> 2013 -> Thu, 05 Dec 2013< code.20131204.log - code.20131206.log >
--- Log opened Thu Dec 05 00:00:25 2013
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06:19
<@Azash>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tracking-cellphone-loc ations-worldwide-snowden-documents-show/2013/12/04/5492873a-5cf2-11e3-bc56-c6ca9 4801fac_print.html
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08:00
<@froztbyte>
sigh
08:00
<@froztbyte>
I might have to C(Python) it up today
08:00
<@froztbyte>
:(
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12:11
<@gnolam>
https://twitter.com/HardSciFiMovies/status/407572381104742401
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20:51
< McMartin>
http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/
20:54
<@TheWatcher>
That looks vaguely akin to the Scripture of the Master Programmer an old uni friend and I started on years ago
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21:36 * AnnoDomini tries to get this silly bouncer thingy to replay the log of what happened while he was away.
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21:48
< RichyB>
TheWatcher, I don't suppose that might be online anywhere?
21:53
<@TheWatcher>
I still have a few in my random sig file, but the original is lost to the river of history.
21:54 * TheWatcher digs out the ones he still has
21:55
<@TheWatcher>
http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/600
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21:56
<&ToxicFrog>
"symbols, whose values are looked up in the court of the LORDÔs glory."
21:56
<&ToxicFrog>
http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/
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21:57 * Tamber grins at Designers 2:146-148.
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21:59
< RichyB>
TheWatcher, thank you!
22:01
<@TheWatcher>
(I do note that none of them were ever intended to be actually serious or anything. Except Principles 1:46.
22:01
<@TheWatcher>
)
22:01
< RichyB>
"Users are specialists. Unfortunately, not in computers." is beautiful and should be stapled to the face of every tool who ever belittled someone for not understanding their computer.
22:02
< RichyB>
TheWatcher, I would prefer that Principles 1:32 be filed under Arguments, since I think it's a deliberate flamewar incitement. :)
22:03
<@Tamber>
I still firmly believe that there is no excuse for not learning to type, if your job involves entering information into a computer all day.
22:03
< RichyB>
TheWatcher, er, not 1:32, 1:24.
22:04
<@TheWatcher>
heheh
22:04
< RichyB>
ÔŽor maybe not. Nah, it's good where it is.
22:04
<@TheWatcher>
Tamber: a-bloody-men to that one
22:06
< RichyB>
I suppose that since using a strong static type system allows me to offload some correctness checking from my own brain to the computer, it does indeed let me write correct programs with a weaker mind than would otherwise be required.
22:06
<@Tamber>
It is damned cringeworthy to watch people hunting and pecking, when it's their job to enter info into a computer. There is a great struggle within me when I behold such.
22:07
< RichyB>
Analogously, shooting someone in the face permits me to slay them with significantly less requisite badasstitude than would be required of me if I were throwing the bullets really hard with my hands.
22:07
< RichyB>
Tamber, I agree. I have no clue how to convince people of this.
22:08
<@Tamber>
(I'm not asking for 140+ WPM, or anything like that; that'd be unreasonable. But, y'know, better than *pak* *pak* *pak* *pak* *pak*)
22:08 * Tamber continues grumping and grumbling in the corner.
22:08
< RichyB>
What I have tried telling people before is that learning to type is easy, pays dividends surprisingly fast and will delay them from developing RSI.
22:09
<@Tamber>
Oh, but I *love* that little tingly *pling* in my wrists when I bend my hands so!
22:10
< RichyB>
I think I need some kind of free touch-typing-tutor app online to point people at, because going out and buying a copy of Mavis Beacon is a pretty big barrier to action in most peoples' minds.
22:10
<@TheWatcher>
Yeah, we have a secretary in work who hunt&pecks. She's worked there 20-odd years. I have no idea how
22:10
<@Tamber>
Inertia.
22:10
<@Tamber>
20 years thereof. :p
22:11
< RichyB>
A javascript version of KTouch might be the best thing.
22:11
<@TheWatcher>
(this is the one who had to be handheld through CODICIL WINTER HILL, with here writing down every step /including the password she has to enter in the login form/)
22:11
<@TheWatcher>
s/here/her
22:12
<@TheWatcher>
I have been assured by other members of staff that yes, she really needs to put that down, or she gets stuck on the login form
22:17 * iospace pats TheWatcher
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22:28
<@Alek>
I think that the older people in the workforce have LESS excuse for hunt-and-pecking, since some of them learned on a typewriter. And many schools, in fact, offered typewriting courses. As requisites.
22:28
<@Alek>
at least in the more urban areas. but less ghetto.
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22:59
<@Tarinaky>
Alek: Equally though those typing courses probably would have been pushed on some genders over others :p
22:59
<@Alek>
doesn't invalidate my point, though.
23:00
<@Tarinaky>
It does a little unless you want to feed out more specifics.
23:16 * Azash waves for someone who has done academia (McMartin?)
23:17
<@Azash>
I think I just finished planning out my MSc
23:17
<@Azash>
Mobile platform security 3, software security 4, distributed systems 4, dist. sys. project 2, overlay/p2p networks 4, software factory 10, internet protocols 4, software architecture 5, crypto 4, intro to ML 4, compilers 4, code generation 4, mobile middleware 3
23:17
<@Azash>
Does this look well-rounded enough if one wants to have a security focus or am I missing some area?
23:20
<&ToxicFrog>
RichyB: Typing of the Dead~
23:20
<&ToxicFrog>
Except that's not free.
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23:24
<@Namegduf>
It's weird how cheap software becomes when you start assigning a sensible value to your time.
23:32
< Vorntastic>
No kidding. My last software job, the software we made cost clients $10k plus 1% of revenue and that was xonsidered quite cheap.
23:32
<@Alek>
http://i.imgur.com/Gcto95Z.png
23:35
<@Reiv>
Alek: Typing was for receptionists.
23:35
<@Reiv>
It was not for Real Employees.
23:43
< RichyB>
ToxicFrog, uh? The issue is not price and it isn't interface, it's that I want something to point people to where the barrier to entry is not "buy this software" or even "download and run this program" but "just visit this URL"
23:44
< RichyB>
Much easier to convince people to try, I think.
23:49
<&ToxicFrog>
Aah.
23:50
< RichyB>
TypeRacer exists too
23:51
< RichyB>
the thing about ktouch is that it has this mode where it patiently explains which fingers to put where
23:52
< McMartin>
Azash: Looks OK. ML's a good language to know, too, though you're unlikely to use it much in industry.
23:52
< McMartin>
It does have a couple features that Spoil You Forever, but so it goes~
23:52
<@Azash>
McMartin: Machine learning
23:53
<&ToxicFrog>
I should learn ML one of these days.
23:53
<@Azash>
I have to admit I've never heard of ML
23:54
< McMartin>
OCaml and SML are the two major dialects at this point.
23:54
< McMartin>
It's where Haskell stole its function definition syntax. ;-)
23:54
<@Azash>
Ah, those I have heard about
23:54
<@Azash>
Hee
23:54
< McMartin>
"ML" is the, er, superclass.
23:54
< McMartin>
(Haskell is *not* an ML, though.)
23:55
<@Azash>
Is OCaml worth a shot?
23:56
< McMartin>
Hmm.
23:56
< McMartin>
It's uglier, but the compiler is "better" (produces faster, more portable code)
23:56
< McMartin>
I've written a handful of actual programs in it that I used for things.
23:56
< McMartin>
This is more than I can say for a lot of mostly-esoteric languages.
23:58
<@Azash>
I gave ML a quick look on wikipedia and saw it say it has side effects, which is pretty much my tiebreaker :b
23:58
< McMartin>
All ML dialects have side effects.
23:58
< RichyB>
Azash, <3
23:59
< McMartin>
OCaml's big ugliness is that it doesn't properly handle a numeric tower; SML's big ugliness is that it's bad at deriving comparators for user types.
23:59
<@Azash>
Numeric tower?
23:59
< McMartin>
So, ML has type inference
--- Log closed Fri Dec 06 00:00:08 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Thu, 05 Dec 2013< code.20131204.log - code.20131206.log >

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