code logs -> 2013 -> Wed, 04 Dec 2013< code.20131203.log - code.20131205.log >
--- Log opened Wed Dec 04 00:00:09 2013
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00:38 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
00:48 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
01:14
< RichyB>
AHA! The fucker! Found it!
01:14
<&McMartin>
?
01:14
< RichyB>
Mental note: never, ever implement anything using singly-linked-lists without physically getting out a piece of notepaper and DRAWING BOXES AND ARROWS
01:16
< RichyB>
I had a SLL implemented with a node* HEAD, and a node **pointer-to-last-node-pointer.
01:16
< RichyB>
er
01:16
< RichyB>
I had a SLL implemented with a node *HEAD, and a node **PTR_TO_LAST
01:16
< RichyB>
I was mutating PTR_TO_LAST at the wrong moment and cutting the end off
01:17
< RichyB>
since it contained a list of semaphores with threads hanging off them waiting for something to happen⦠I got deadlocks.
01:17
<&McMartin>
Oof.
01:17
<&McMartin>
That mental note seems wise
01:21
< RichyB>
On a related note, I appreciate that Hg is good software but I really don't like using it instead of git.
01:23
<@Tarinaky>
I am incredibly stressed out and can't sleep as I desperately await an email to tell me whether I can drop a module from this semester at this late stage or not.
01:24
<@Alek>
iknowthatfeel.bro
01:35
<&ToxicFrog>
RichyB: use git-hg?~
01:38
<@Tarinaky>
So now you get the user-unfriendliness and unsafety of git's absence of any kind of abstraction with the availability and proliferation of hg repos?
01:38
<@Tarinaky>
Boy! I sure can't wait!
01:38
<&ToxicFrog>
Tarinaky: well, no, it solves the same problem git-svn does
01:39
<@Tarinaky>
Converts a hg repo to a git one?
01:39
<&ToxicFrog>
Which is "I want to interact with a project that uses hg, but I don't want to learn hg just for this and I'm already fluent in git"
01:39
<@Tarinaky>
Ah, yes.
01:39
<@Tarinaky>
My snide remark stands then.
01:39
<@Tarinaky>
Because of how popular mercurialhub is these days.
01:39
<&ToxicFrog>
(you can also use it to convert a hg repo)
01:40
<&ToxicFrog>
...er?
01:40
<&ToxicFrog>
The relative popularity is irrelevant.
01:40
<&ToxicFrog>
What matters is whether the project you want to check out uses mercurial.
01:40
<@Tarinaky>
Well, it kindof isn't when one of the selling points of git is how easy it is to get a free repo >.<
01:40
<&ToxicFrog>
So
01:40
<@Tarinaky>
And consequently most of the projects I want to check out use git.
01:40
<@Tarinaky>
Despite git having Obvious Flaws.
01:40
<&ToxicFrog>
I'm not sure if what you're arguing here is "git is so popular you should never encounter a project using hg in the first place"
01:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Or "all projects using hg should immediately convert to git, and until then they don't deserve patches"
01:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Or "as a git user, you shouldn't want to inspect the source of projects using hg"
01:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Or something else entirely
01:41
<@Tarinaky>
"git is so popular I never seem to encounter a project using hg in the first place..."
01:41
<&ToxicFrog>
I mean, #1 is obviously untrue, and #2 and #3 are obviously insane
01:42
<@Tarinaky>
And "Why would you want to use git to interact with a hg repo when hg is saner"
01:43
<@Tarinaky>
That's like taking a C++ library and wanting to write C bindings for it.
01:43
<&Derakon>
...that is a common thing.
01:43
<@Tarinaky>
I'm aware.
01:43
<@Tarinaky>
It's still wrong.
01:43
<&ToxicFrog>
...because you already know git, and you want to quickly submit a patch or inspect the source of some open source project that uses hg
01:43
<&ToxicFrog>
The hell it is
01:43
<@Tarinaky>
And I mean wrong in a spiritual sense.
01:44
<&Derakon>
TF's statement stands.
01:44
<@Tarinaky>
Myeh.
01:44
<@Tarinaky>
This is a silly argument.
01:44
<&ToxicFrog>
Also, you may never encounter projects that don't use git; I've hacked on two hg projects and one bzr one this year along.
01:44
<&ToxicFrog>
*alone.
01:45
<@Tarinaky>
Did you use git to do that, or did you use hg/bzr?
01:45
< RichyB>
ToxicFrog, thank you, yes, that precisely captures why I'm whining about Hg. I already know Git and there is "just" this one thing in Hg which I want to hack on. :)
01:45
<&Derakon>
FWIW I have the reverse problem at work: a project I've been hosting on my private Mercurial repo has been shared with another lab and they want to set up GitHub for it.
01:45
<&Derakon>
RichyB: manually download the source, hack it, then submit a diff via the project's ticket system?
01:46
<&Derakon>
It's clunkier than setting up a pullreq, but the devs can probably deal.
01:46
< RichyB>
I expect that I'll end up doing something like that.
01:46
< RichyB>
Hrmn, I really should have *started* by looking at git-remote-hg.
01:47
<&ToxicFrog>
Tarinaky: git.
01:47
<&ToxicFrog>
Although as it turned out what I wanted to do was simple enough that I could have just downloaded HEAD and sent in patches with diff in all three cases.
01:48
<@Tarinaky>
Oh, well. Fine then. I am full of shit.
01:51
< RichyB>
Tarinaky, be at peace. It's only broken-feeling technology.
02:00
<@Tarinaky>
http://i.imgur.com/JYCSJiu.jpg
02:13
< RichyB>
HAHA! IT PASSES THE TEST SUITE!
02:13
< RichyB>
well, when built with -O0
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03:15
< macdjord>
Okay, I am working on a perl script that uses a database. To test it, I have installed MySQL on my Ubuntu machine. However, I have no idea what the connection parameters are. I've tried my username @ localhost, both with and without a password, but all I get is 'access denied'.
03:18
< macdjord>
Ah! Found it.
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06:33
<&jerith>
MySQL. ;_;
06:34
<@froztbyte>
theirsql
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14:16
<@Tarinaky>
The nun asked: ‚How will I know when I have learned enough to use threads wisely?‚
14:16
<@Tarinaky>
Banzen replied: ‚When you no longer wish to use them.‚
14:18
<@TheWatcher>
S'true.
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15:41
< RichyB>
I think it's a crock. :)
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15:53
<@TheWatcher>
I note that it's not "When you no longer use them". If it was, I'd agree.
15:53
<@TheWatcher>
There's plenty of times I've had to use threads, because it's the only approach that makes sense. But I wish I didn't have to.
16:25
< RichyB>
I still think shared-memory multiprocessing is fun.
17:51
< RichyB>
(Not productive. Definitely fun, though.)
18:00
<@Tarinaky>
RichyB: I think this is written expressly from the perspective of deployment code and best practices and engineering and code as a means to an end.
18:00
<@Tarinaky>
Rather than 'fun' - which is subjective.
18:00
<&jerith>
Threads are useful, but they're a really bad default concurrency mechanism.
18:01
<&jerith>
http://thecodelesscode.com/case/68
18:04
< RichyB>
No, for goodness' sake, pithy fake zen koans are not a substitute for reasoned argument.
18:05
<@Tarinaky>
We're not proposing them as such.
18:05
<@Tarinaky>
They are however 1) Amusing and 2) Good conversation starters.
18:05
< RichyB>
Please link to http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf instead.
18:05
<@Tarinaky>
Also I wasn't aware we were having an argument.
18:06
<@Tarinaky>
There is space for both the factual and the entertaining imo >.>
18:06
< RichyB>
Well, I just swore at you (I used to word "good" in a sentence, bletch!) so it's probably an argument. ;)
18:07
< RichyB>
Yeah, sorry, I'll try to be less uptight. :P
18:08
<@Tarinaky>
Ty ^^
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18:11
< RichyB>
Interesting fall-out from the argument about threads being excessively non-deterministic
18:11
< RichyB>
http://pchiusano.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/actors-are-overly-nondeterminstic.html
18:11
< RichyB>
^- accusation that the problems largely apply to Actors, too.
18:12
<@Tarinaky>
My experience and knowledge of threads is limited as I've mostly been sticking to python of late. So I'm going to bow out now.
18:23
< RichyB>
You don't lack access to a thread implementation in Python, you merely lack access to one which is strongly worth using. ;)
18:24
<@Tarinaky>
I am aware. I didn't feel it needed stating explicitly.
18:24
<@Tarinaky>
Co-routines and child processes are pretty neat though.
18:25
< RichyB>
Twisted and Tornado and Stackless are all supposed to be pretty good.
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18:25
<@Tarinaky>
I've played with Twisted before. It works.
18:25
<@Tarinaky>
It hides most/all of the actual 'work' away from you though.
18:25
<@Tarinaky>
So my knowledge of threads is still weak ;)
18:26
<@Tarinaky>
Sorry, I didn't mean for that to sound like a negative point, I'll try again: It hides all the actual work away from you!!11
18:27
<@Tarinaky>
I was going to do something, but I forgot what.
18:30
< ErikMesoy>
Join a Black Power organization.
18:35
<@Tarinaky>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u5N00ApR_k
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18:59
<&ToxicFrog>
RichyB: shared memory concurrency is full of spiders, message passing for life
19:06
<@gnolam>
OpenMP FTW.
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19:20
<&ToxicFrog>
openMP is great if you want to use pmap but are stuck using a language that doesn't have pmap.
19:20
<&ToxicFrog>
That's about it.
19:31
<&jerith>
I wrote pmap in a line of Erlang once.
19:32
<&jerith>
It wasn't a very robust implementation.
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20:43
<@froztbyte>
haha
20:43
<@froztbyte>
jerith!
20:43
<@froztbyte>
I may ask you to review more code in the (near) future
20:44
<@froztbyte>
I apologise for whatever parts of your soul this specific set might kill
20:47
<&jerith>
froztbyte: That's okay. I'll just consume some hapless PHP dev's soul to make up for it.
20:47
<@froztbyte>
jerith: you may need more than one
20:47
<@froztbyte>
jerith: this will be python code based on that thing from the other day
20:48
<@froztbyte>
jerith: along with potentially bad callbacks (still trying to figure out if this is a thing, fixing sf first)
20:48
<@froztbyte>
but hey, at least I know it'll be bad! that way I can be prepared to fix it!
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22:09
<@TheWatcher>
jerith: That would require the php dev to have a soul
22:09
<@TheWatcher>
I'm not sure that is possible.
22:10
<&jerith>
TheWatcher: Most PHP devs start off with souls.
22:23
<&McMartin>
Then you happen?
22:25
<@Tamber>
Either that, or they try to write something involving security.
22:26
<@TheWatcher>
s/involving security//
22:26
<@Tamber>
:)
22:26
<@himi>
Fortunately, none of us would consider ourselves PHP devs
22:27
<@himi>
Despite having written plenty of PHP, of course
22:27
<&McMartin>
I haven't~
22:27
<@himi>
(how else could we provide useful critique)
22:28
<@himi>
McMartin: you don't count - you're one of those academic types that gets to work on the stuff that everyone else wishes they could work on while getting paid to do it ;-P
22:28
<@Tamber>
I wouldn't consider myself a developer; but I've duct-taped and chewing-gum'd together enough PHP to want to avoid it for anything 'complex'.
22:28
<@Tamber>
For varying definitions of "complex"
22:29
<&McMartin>
himi: Heh. Well, maybe. Today is looking like it will not be that day.
22:29
<&McMartin>
Today is looking more like "examine core dumps to figure out why important processes aren't appearing to start"
22:29
<@Tamber>
Ninjas.
22:30 * McMartin may end up being a deployed counter-ninja.
22:30
<@Tamber>
Nice thing to add to your business card.
22:30
<@himi>
I hope you get danger money
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22:58
<@Azash>
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2013/12/cloudius-systems -hsa-foundation-and-valve-join-linux-foundation
22:59
<&McMartin>
"Cloudius"?
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22:59
<@Azash>
"Cloudius is a boutique Cloud service vendor"
22:59
<&McMartin>
Butt service
22:59
<@Azash>
Please, McMartin, I thought you were the mature one here
23:00
<@Azash>
http://i.imgur.com/YOmDuDV.jpg
23:01
<@Azash>
McMartin: There's some info on Cloudius in that release
23:01
<&McMartin>
I might be the "mature" one but wasn't I the one that linked cloud-to-butt?
23:04
<@Azash>
Butt jokes are like a fine wine?
23:04
<&McMartin>
I did used to be an archer
23:05
<@Azash>
http://i.imgur.com/8tWSmWq.jpg
23:24 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
--- Log closed Thu Dec 05 00:00:25 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Wed, 04 Dec 2013< code.20131203.log - code.20131205.log >

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