| --- Log opened Wed Dec 04 00:00:09 2013 |
| 00:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:38 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:48 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:14 | < RichyB> | AHA! The fucker! Found it! |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | ? |
| 01:14 | < RichyB> | Mental note: never, ever implement anything using singly-linked-lists without physically getting out a piece of notepaper and DRAWING BOXES AND ARROWS |
| 01:16 | < RichyB> | I had a SLL implemented with a node* HEAD, and a node **pointer-to-last-node-pointer. |
| 01:16 | < RichyB> | er |
| 01:16 | < RichyB> | I had a SLL implemented with a node *HEAD, and a node **PTR_TO_LAST |
| 01:16 | < RichyB> | I was mutating PTR_TO_LAST at the wrong moment and cutting the end off |
| 01:17 | < RichyB> | since it contained a list of semaphores with threads hanging off them waiting for something to happen⦠I got deadlocks. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Oof. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | That mental note seems wise |
| 01:21 | < RichyB> | On a related note, I appreciate that Hg is good software but I really don't like using it instead of git. |
| 01:23 | <@Tarinaky> | I am incredibly stressed out and can't sleep as I desperately await an email to tell me whether I can drop a module from this semester at this late stage or not. |
| 01:24 | <@Alek> | iknowthatfeel.bro |
| 01:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | RichyB: use git-hg?~ |
| 01:38 | <@Tarinaky> | So now you get the user-unfriendliness and unsafety of git's absence of any kind of abstraction with the availability and proliferation of hg repos? |
| 01:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Boy! I sure can't wait! |
| 01:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: well, no, it solves the same problem git-svn does |
| 01:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Converts a hg repo to a git one? |
| 01:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which is "I want to interact with a project that uses hg, but I don't want to learn hg just for this and I'm already fluent in git" |
| 01:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah, yes. |
| 01:39 | <@Tarinaky> | My snide remark stands then. |
| 01:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Because of how popular mercurialhub is these days. |
| 01:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | (you can also use it to convert a hg repo) |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...er? |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | The relative popularity is irrelevant. |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | What matters is whether the project you want to check out uses mercurial. |
| 01:40 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, it kindof isn't when one of the selling points of git is how easy it is to get a free repo >.< |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | So |
| 01:40 | <@Tarinaky> | And consequently most of the projects I want to check out use git. |
| 01:40 | <@Tarinaky> | Despite git having Obvious Flaws. |
| 01:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure if what you're arguing here is "git is so popular you should never encounter a project using hg in the first place" |
| 01:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or "all projects using hg should immediately convert to git, and until then they don't deserve patches" |
| 01:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or "as a git user, you shouldn't want to inspect the source of projects using hg" |
| 01:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or something else entirely |
| 01:41 | <@Tarinaky> | "git is so popular I never seem to encounter a project using hg in the first place..." |
| 01:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | I mean, #1 is obviously untrue, and #2 and #3 are obviously insane |
| 01:42 | <@Tarinaky> | And "Why would you want to use git to interact with a hg repo when hg is saner" |
| 01:43 | <@Tarinaky> | That's like taking a C++ library and wanting to write C bindings for it. |
| 01:43 | <&Derakon> | ...that is a common thing. |
| 01:43 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm aware. |
| 01:43 | <@Tarinaky> | It's still wrong. |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...because you already know git, and you want to quickly submit a patch or inspect the source of some open source project that uses hg |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | The hell it is |
| 01:43 | <@Tarinaky> | And I mean wrong in a spiritual sense. |
| 01:44 | <&Derakon> | TF's statement stands. |
| 01:44 | <@Tarinaky> | Myeh. |
| 01:44 | <@Tarinaky> | This is a silly argument. |
| 01:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, you may never encounter projects that don't use git; I've hacked on two hg projects and one bzr one this year along. |
| 01:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | *alone. |
| 01:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Did you use git to do that, or did you use hg/bzr? |
| 01:45 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, thank you, yes, that precisely captures why I'm whining about Hg. I already know Git and there is "just" this one thing in Hg which I want to hack on. :) |
| 01:45 | <&Derakon> | FWIW I have the reverse problem at work: a project I've been hosting on my private Mercurial repo has been shared with another lab and they want to set up GitHub for it. |
| 01:45 | <&Derakon> | RichyB: manually download the source, hack it, then submit a diff via the project's ticket system? |
| 01:46 | <&Derakon> | It's clunkier than setting up a pullreq, but the devs can probably deal. |
| 01:46 | < RichyB> | I expect that I'll end up doing something like that. |
| 01:46 | < RichyB> | Hrmn, I really should have *started* by looking at git-remote-hg. |
| 01:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: git. |
| 01:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although as it turned out what I wanted to do was simple enough that I could have just downloaded HEAD and sent in patches with diff in all three cases. |
| 01:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh, well. Fine then. I am full of shit. |
| 01:51 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, be at peace. It's only broken-feeling technology. |
| 02:00 | <@Tarinaky> | http://i.imgur.com/JYCSJiu.jpg |
| 02:13 | < RichyB> | HAHA! IT PASSES THE TEST SUITE! |
| 02:13 | < RichyB> | well, when built with -O0 |
| 03:11 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-c0i1dq.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 03:15 | < macdjord> | Okay, I am working on a perl script that uses a database. To test it, I have installed MySQL on my Ubuntu machine. However, I have no idea what the connection parameters are. I've tried my username @ localhost, both with and without a password, but all I get is 'access denied'. |
| 03:18 | < macdjord> | Ah! Found it. |
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| 06:33 | <&jerith> | MySQL. ;_; |
| 06:34 | <@froztbyte> | theirsql |
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| 09:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 14:16 | <@Tarinaky> | The nun asked: âHow will I know when I have learned enough to use threads wisely?â |
| 14:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Banzen replied: âWhen you no longer wish to use them.â |
| 14:18 | <@TheWatcher> | S'true. |
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| 15:41 | < RichyB> | I think it's a crock. :) |
| 15:44 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 15:53 | <@TheWatcher> | I note that it's not "When you no longer use them". If it was, I'd agree. |
| 15:53 | <@TheWatcher> | There's plenty of times I've had to use threads, because it's the only approach that makes sense. But I wish I didn't have to. |
| 16:25 | < RichyB> | I still think shared-memory multiprocessing is fun. |
| 17:51 | < RichyB> | (Not productive. Definitely fun, though.) |
| 18:00 | <@Tarinaky> | RichyB: I think this is written expressly from the perspective of deployment code and best practices and engineering and code as a means to an end. |
| 18:00 | <@Tarinaky> | Rather than 'fun' - which is subjective. |
| 18:00 | <&jerith> | Threads are useful, but they're a really bad default concurrency mechanism. |
| 18:01 | <&jerith> | http://thecodelesscode.com/case/68 |
| 18:04 | < RichyB> | No, for goodness' sake, pithy fake zen koans are not a substitute for reasoned argument. |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | We're not proposing them as such. |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | They are however 1) Amusing and 2) Good conversation starters. |
| 18:05 | < RichyB> | Please link to http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2006/EECS-2006-1.pdf instead. |
| 18:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Also I wasn't aware we were having an argument. |
| 18:06 | <@Tarinaky> | There is space for both the factual and the entertaining imo >.> |
| 18:06 | < RichyB> | Well, I just swore at you (I used to word "good" in a sentence, bletch!) so it's probably an argument. ;) |
| 18:07 | < RichyB> | Yeah, sorry, I'll try to be less uptight. :P |
| 18:08 | <@Tarinaky> | Ty ^^ |
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| 18:11 | < RichyB> | Interesting fall-out from the argument about threads being excessively non-deterministic |
| 18:11 | < RichyB> | http://pchiusano.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/actors-are-overly-nondeterminstic.html |
| 18:11 | < RichyB> | ^- accusation that the problems largely apply to Actors, too. |
| 18:12 | <@Tarinaky> | My experience and knowledge of threads is limited as I've mostly been sticking to python of late. So I'm going to bow out now. |
| 18:23 | < RichyB> | You don't lack access to a thread implementation in Python, you merely lack access to one which is strongly worth using. ;) |
| 18:24 | <@Tarinaky> | I am aware. I didn't feel it needed stating explicitly. |
| 18:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Co-routines and child processes are pretty neat though. |
| 18:25 | < RichyB> | Twisted and Tornado and Stackless are all supposed to be pretty good. |
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| 18:25 | <@Tarinaky> | I've played with Twisted before. It works. |
| 18:25 | <@Tarinaky> | It hides most/all of the actual 'work' away from you though. |
| 18:25 | <@Tarinaky> | So my knowledge of threads is still weak ;) |
| 18:26 | <@Tarinaky> | Sorry, I didn't mean for that to sound like a negative point, I'll try again: It hides all the actual work away from you!!11 |
| 18:27 | <@Tarinaky> | I was going to do something, but I forgot what. |
| 18:30 | < ErikMesoy> | Join a Black Power organization. |
| 18:35 | <@Tarinaky> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u5N00ApR_k |
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| 18:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | RichyB: shared memory concurrency is full of spiders, message passing for life |
| 19:06 | <@gnolam> | OpenMP FTW. |
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| 19:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | openMP is great if you want to use pmap but are stuck using a language that doesn't have pmap. |
| 19:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's about it. |
| 19:31 | <&jerith> | I wrote pmap in a line of Erlang once. |
| 19:32 | <&jerith> | It wasn't a very robust implementation. |
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| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | jerith! |
| 20:43 | <@froztbyte> | I may ask you to review more code in the (near) future |
| 20:44 | <@froztbyte> | I apologise for whatever parts of your soul this specific set might kill |
| 20:47 | <&jerith> | froztbyte: That's okay. I'll just consume some hapless PHP dev's soul to make up for it. |
| 20:47 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: you may need more than one |
| 20:47 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: this will be python code based on that thing from the other day |
| 20:48 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: along with potentially bad callbacks (still trying to figure out if this is a thing, fixing sf first) |
| 20:48 | <@froztbyte> | but hey, at least I know it'll be bad! that way I can be prepared to fix it! |
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| 22:09 | <@TheWatcher> | jerith: That would require the php dev to have a soul |
| 22:09 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm not sure that is possible. |
| 22:10 | <&jerith> | TheWatcher: Most PHP devs start off with souls. |
| 22:23 | <&McMartin> | Then you happen? |
| 22:25 | <@Tamber> | Either that, or they try to write something involving security. |
| 22:26 | <@TheWatcher> | s/involving security// |
| 22:26 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 22:26 | <@himi> | Fortunately, none of us would consider ourselves PHP devs |
| 22:27 | <@himi> | Despite having written plenty of PHP, of course |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | I haven't~ |
| 22:27 | <@himi> | (how else could we provide useful critique) |
| 22:28 | <@himi> | McMartin: you don't count - you're one of those academic types that gets to work on the stuff that everyone else wishes they could work on while getting paid to do it ;-P |
| 22:28 | <@Tamber> | I wouldn't consider myself a developer; but I've duct-taped and chewing-gum'd together enough PHP to want to avoid it for anything 'complex'. |
| 22:28 | <@Tamber> | For varying definitions of "complex" |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | himi: Heh. Well, maybe. Today is looking like it will not be that day. |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | Today is looking more like "examine core dumps to figure out why important processes aren't appearing to start" |
| 22:29 | <@Tamber> | Ninjas. |
| 22:30 | | * McMartin may end up being a deployed counter-ninja. |
| 22:30 | <@Tamber> | Nice thing to add to your business card. |
| 22:30 | <@himi> | I hope you get danger money |
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| 22:58 | <@Azash> | http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/announcements/2013/12/cloudius-systems -hsa-foundation-and-valve-join-linux-foundation |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | "Cloudius"? |
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| 22:59 | <@Azash> | "Cloudius is a boutique Cloud service vendor" |
| 22:59 | <&McMartin> | Butt service |
| 22:59 | <@Azash> | Please, McMartin, I thought you were the mature one here |
| 23:00 | <@Azash> | http://i.imgur.com/YOmDuDV.jpg |
| 23:01 | <@Azash> | McMartin: There's some info on Cloudius in that release |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> | I might be the "mature" one but wasn't I the one that linked cloud-to-butt? |
| 23:04 | <@Azash> | Butt jokes are like a fine wine? |
| 23:04 | <&McMartin> | I did used to be an archer |
| 23:05 | <@Azash> | http://i.imgur.com/8tWSmWq.jpg |
| 23:24 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| --- Log closed Thu Dec 05 00:00:25 2013 |