code logs -> 2013 -> Fri, 15 Nov 2013< code.20131114.log - code.20131116.log >
--- Log opened Fri Nov 15 00:00:09 2013
00:31
<&McMartin>
Man, it's a challenge to make APIs that are expressible in Java and also don't suck
00:31
<&McMartin>
This probably improves the architecture overall, though.
00:33
< Reiv_>
Minor point of brainfail: What does API /stand for/
00:33
< Reiv_>
I know it, but I do not know it today.
00:34
< Reiv_>
aha, application programming interface
00:34
< Reiv_>
Yes, because that's intuitive
00:34
< Syka_>
application programming inter- yeah
00:36
<&McMartin>
Compare "ABI", "Application Binary Interface", which is the protocol for how arguments work in function calls etc at the machine code level.
00:38
< RichyB>
Also "FFI", "Foreign Function Interface", which is a system for adapting to a dissimilar ABI in order to be able to call into it (and possibly back).
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01:12
< thalass>
Is it actually possible to compress .pdf files? Or are they as compressed as possible? Though these are scanned images, so maybe it's not possible.
01:15
< Syka_>
thalass: the scanned images are actually .jpgs
01:16
< thalass>
Hrm. I really can't be arsed re-scanning the images at a lower resolution, but trying to attach them to an email is proving to be a painful timeout-rich experience
01:17
< RichyB>
thalass, uh <insert brief lecture about Kolmogorov complexity here>
01:18
< thalass>
heh
01:18
< RichyB>
PDFs tend not to compress well under algorithms that work like Lempel-Ziv.
01:19 * thalass goes looking for a way to unpack the images from the pdf file, scale the images a bit smaller, then repack them as a pdf, in the command line.
01:19
< RichyB>
Their contents are binary encodings of sequences of curves.
01:19
< RichyB>
When images are embedded in PDF files, they are usually encoded with either PNG or JPEG.
01:21 * thalass nods
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01:25
< Reiv_>
... binary encodings of sequences of curves?
01:26
< RichyB>
by "algorithms that work like Lempel-Ziv" I mean "algorithms for compressing files that take advantage of repetitions". gzip, bz2, lzma, xz, rar all fall into this category.
01:26
< Reiv_>
... right, yes
01:27
< thalass>
These are regular zip files, due to the high likeliness that the recipient is running windows.
01:27
< RichyB>
Reiv_, poorly-phrased. What I mean is, they're largely vector graphics, encoded in some way that isn't plain text.
01:27
< thalass>
I get a 2mb reduction in file size. woop woop. :P
01:27
< Reiv_>
Everything from LZ to huffman counts as that pattern, correct?
01:27
<@Alek>
how about tar?
01:28
< thalass>
I'm attempting a ghostscript rejiggering on a copy of the file (because srsly it took ages to scan these pages one by one. >.<
01:28
< RichyB>
Reiv_, not Huffman. Huffman trees let you take advantage of some symbols in an alphabet occurring more often than others, and nothing else.
01:29
< Reiv_>
... symbols? I had thought huffman let you do whole strings.
01:29
< RichyB>
Alek, tar isn't a compression system, it's a system for representing a set of files in a single file.
01:29
< Reiv_>
Man, I Know All This(tm)
01:29
< Reiv_>
But it has been so long since I dealt with the nit and grit that the knowledge has turned to mush.
01:30
< RichyB>
Reiv_, Huffman is what is called an "entropy encoding algorithm". It's often used as the final step in a more complicated algorithm (e.g. encoding with Huffman trees is the last compression step in gzip)
01:31
< thalass>
Oh wow. From an 80mb pdf to a 3mb pdf. That script worked well. Though the text in the images is a bit pixely, it's largely readable. I might try again with different settings.
01:32
< Reiv_>
Yeah, JPEG can save a *lot* of size compression very quickly.
01:32
< RichyB>
Reiv_, the part of the problem it solves is this: You have an alphabet of symbols, and you have a prior probability distribution for them. Taking into account the prior probabilities, find a way of representing sequences of symbols ("words") from that alphabet compactly, on average.
01:33
< Reiv_>
The difference between, eg, 100 and 80 on a slider can be a quarter the size with imperceptible change.
01:33
< Reiv_>
RichyB: Yes indeed
01:33
< RichyB>
Reiv_, does that explanation make sense, please?
01:35
< RichyB>
e.g. in a compression algorithm that smell a tiny bit like gzip, your alphabet might be ("literal byte 0", "literal byte 1", ... "literal byte 255", "repeat the last 2 bytes", "repeat the last 4 bytes", "repeat the last 8 bytes", "repeat the last 16 bytes")
01:36
< RichyB>
you probably expect to emit the symbol "repeat the last 2 bytes" more often than you emit the symbol "repeat the last 16 bytes"
01:36
< RichyB>
a Huffman tree will give a longer codeword to the symbol "repeat the last 16 bytes" in order to be able to give a shorter codeword to the symbol "repeat the last 2 bytes"
01:38 * thalass goes crosseyed, but beleives RichyB
01:38
< RichyB>
in an attempt to optimise sum([ probability_that_a_symbol_is(a) * len(codeword_for(a)) for a in alphabet ])
01:39
< Reiv_>
That's pretty clever. I hadn't realised they did thath to gzip.
01:40
< RichyB>
btw that would make a terrible real-world compression algorithm because rules for repetitions are way too stupidly simple, but DEFLATE (which gzip is a wrapper around) does actually use Huffman like that, but with a MUCH cleverer set of rules for repetitions)
01:40 * Reiv_ is aware of just how crazy-clever some of those encodings get.
01:41
< Reiv_>
The one I really like is where you store the entire file as a ridiculously precise floating point number.
01:41
< Reiv_>
I understand it's not terribly /useful/, but damn is it cool
01:41
< RichyB>
Uh, are you thinking of arithmetic encoding?
01:42
< Reiv_>
Might be.
01:42
< Reiv_>
My knowledge is ancient and seized.
01:42
< Reiv_>
A pity because I still need to encode that spaceship.
01:42
< RichyB>
Arithmetic *coding*, sorry, is an entropy encoding system (same problem domain as Huffman) where you encode input sequences as very precise fractions.
01:43
< thalass>
encode that spaceship? You're heading into the matrix, Reiver?
01:43
< RichyB>
Arithmetic coding is actually more compact than Huffman though.
01:43
< RichyB>
It's really useful in practice!
01:44
< Reiv_>
thalass: Not quite, but close.
01:44
< Reiv_>
I have an idea for a computer game; it has *nothing at all* to do with the worldbuilding I play with in FLEET.
01:44
< thalass>
neat
01:45
< Reiv_>
Instead you're on a slowboat. In fact, given my predilections to the genre, you might *be* the slowboat... as its AI. :p
01:45
< RichyB>
It shows up in fewer places because mostly because there was a patent on it for ages (since expired). I think it's also more CPU-costly to work with than Huffman trees, but not by so much that you'd feel the difference these days.
01:46
< thalass>
That sounds good, Reiver.
01:47
< Reiv_>
RichyB: I'd understood it was very clever, better than Huffman, but the CPU load meant that it was a bad trade of size:speed because the improvements in size were... what was it my lecturer said
01:49
< RichyB>
Eh. That depends on historical context. These days, you're compressing sequences because you want to put them down a network connection, and the ratio of CPU cycles available to bytes per second of bandwidth has shot WAY up over the years.
01:51
< RichyB>
I've seen it claimed that JPEGs get (without changing the values that are encoded in them) ~20% smaller when you switch from using Huffman to Arithmetic coding in them, though nobody does because nobody's sure that everyone else's software bothers to implement that bit of the JPEG spec.
01:54
< Reiv_>
Yeah that's true; the old compression was for storage space.
01:54
< RichyB>
*or a disk.
01:55
< RichyB>
The ratio between CPU cycles to the throughput of spinning rust has *also* gone through the roof. ;)
01:56
< RichyB>
I guess solid-state disks have brought it down again a bit, but they have much more pressing capacity concerns.
01:57
< RichyB>
heehee
01:58
< RichyB>
annnnd just for once in a blue moon, #code is full of talk about actual codes, rather than about computer software. ;)
02:06
< Reiv_>
Oh hush
02:06
< Reiv_>
Code was *spawned* apon such principles
02:06
< Reiv_>
That such principles were being written in Python was a mere side detail.
02:06
< Reiv_>
(Indeed, when the young lady in question took her code to the supervisor, said supervisor suggested she could write her thesis on *that* instead of merely doing the analysis with it)
02:08
< RichyB>
The young lady in question?
02:13
<&ToxicFrog>
Chalcy's stoatburger project, no?
02:16
< Reiv_>
ToxicFrog: Correct!
02:16
< RichyB>
Please tell me about it?
02:17
< Reiv_>
RichyB: #Code was founded to help a flatmate of mine, Chalcedon, get some PC help with an Interesting Problem. At the time, I had no obvious channel for her to join and discuss matters with the Local Expert (Vornicus), so I founded #Code as athrowaway.
02:18
< RichyB>
Ah! Cool!
02:18
< Reiv_>
ToxicFrog saw it with his Eldritch Powers and within five minutes had joined and piled in on the discussion.
02:18
< RichyB>
What was her interesting problem? :
02:18
< RichyB>
:)
02:19
< Reiv_>
This was joined by a few others; after a time it pretty rapidly became something of a Switzerland of the network: We had many channels with competent coders in each, who weren't in each others channels.
02:19
< Reiv_>
Thus #Code mutated into being the channel where they could all argue with each other. It's worked out, ahem, rather well.
02:19
<&ToxicFrog>
Data mining of records of small animals trapped in a certain region for her dissertation, IIRC
02:19
<&ToxicFrog>
Project codename "stoatburgers"
02:19
<&ToxicFrog>
(no stoats were harmed in the making of this paper)
02:19
< Reiv_>
(Why yes, we were trapping stoats. They're a national pest here.)
02:20
< Reiv_>
(But they weren't getting, uh, burger'd. That was just a Vornism~)
02:20
<&ToxicFrog>
I provided some postscript assistance for visualization of the resulting data.
02:20
< Reiv_>
IIRC we ended up with an algorithm that ran in linear time
02:20
< Reiv_>
So you did
02:21
< Reiv_>
(This was absolutely overkill; the records were Not That Large. But hell, we were a tad chuffed with ourselves all the same.)
02:21 * RichyB scratches head
02:22
< RichyB>
come to think of it, I think I have vague memories of hearing about stoatburgers.
02:22
<&ToxicFrog>
Sadly Chalcy has not been seen in these parts since 2008.
02:23
< Reiv_>
I've not heard from her in several years, barring one phonecall.
02:23
< RichyB>
I definitely remember seeing conversations on nightstar about it in other channels.
02:23
< Reiv_>
I really must fix that.
02:23
< RichyB>
Aw. Hope she's alright.
02:28
< Reiv_>
She is, in fact - and significantly better in the past year.
02:29
< Reiv_>
We lost touch during a rough patch, and they now live in the south island, so reconnecting has grown harder. (It doesn't help that I moved from our City of Origin either, so to meet up we'd /both/ have to synchronise)
02:29
< RichyB>
Wasn't she suffering from some pretty nasty chronic health conditions around the time that she dropped off nightstar? :|
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02:29
< Reiv_>
Along those lines, yes. She's doing better.
02:30
< Reiv_>
And moved to do her PhD, which is pretty neat.
02:30
< RichyB>
I am glad to hear that!
02:30
< RichyB>
Oh cool!
02:30
<&ToxicFrog>
Sweet!
02:30
< Reiv_>
(AKA: She's well enough to do her PhD, and the Professor To Do It With was there, so they went)
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02:31
< Reiv_>
That's about all I know, but that *is* what I know, so I am :) and will try to reconnect some time when I'm not drowning in :( myself~
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12:14
<@Azash>
https://github.com/search?q=sudo+$_POST&type=Code&ref=searchresults
12:17
<@TheWatcher>
I'm not going to look at that, because my head hurts enough as it is without me bashing it on the desk repeatedly
12:18
< RichyB>
change it to $_GET and it gets even funnier.
12:22
<~Vornicus>
Azash: Oh my god people do that?
12:22
<@TheWatcher>
RichyB: If by "funnier" you mean "even more raeg inducing"
12:24
<@Azash>
Vornicus: More injections than the bird flu
13:08
<~Vornicus>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-************* *****
13:11
< AnnoDomini>
Nice cat you have there.
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13:15
<@froztbyte>
that's not a cat
13:15
<@froztbyte>
that's future-hayes
13:16
< AnnoDomini>
Or he could be programming in brainfuck.
13:17
<@froztbyte>
mmm, was * an operator there?
13:17
<@froztbyte>
it wasn't
13:17
<@froztbyte>
so it'd have to be input or something
13:18
<@froztbyte>
(but it can't be because no ,)
13:20 * AnnoDomini proceeds with installing Win7 on the newly purchased company laptop for the new employee.
13:20
< AnnoDomini>
It was a real bitch the first time.
13:20
< AnnoDomini>
Was the first time I encountered UEFI and couldn't get to the stage where I can actually boot something but Win8 until like 3 in the morning.
13:22
< AnnoDomini>
This time I encountered only minor troubles with getting Win7 to install. Had to wipe all the damn partitions, because they were the wrong sort or something.
13:23
<@Tarinaky>
No UEFI bootloader has ever made a mistake, or distorted information.
13:24
<@Tarinaky>
We are, by all practical definitions of the word, fool-proof, and incapable of error.
13:24
< AnnoDomini>
You are quoting somethng, aren't you?
13:26
<@Tarinaky>
2001: A Space Oddessy.
13:31
<@TheWatcher>
Not exactly a fair quote, given that HAL only malfunctioned because he was put in an impossible position. He wasn't /created/ to be shit.
13:32
<@Tarinaky>
UEFI secureboot /is/ an impossible situation.
13:33
<@Tarinaky>
Secureboot is like the main thing everyone complains about being unusably shit.
13:34
<@Tarinaky>
Everything else is because it's not entirely clear what hardware has to be initialise to bootload in the general case - unless you can make firm assumptions about the hardware.
13:41
<@froztbyte>
you really need to meet some IPMI.
13:41
<@Tarinaky>
IPMI?
13:42
<@TheWatcher>
Intelligent Platform Management Interface
13:42
<@Tarinaky>
BIOS did kindof need replacing with something else though.
13:42
<@froztbyte>
sure
13:42
<@froztbyte>
but coreboot has proven that it's possible to do that without it being shit
13:43
<@froztbyte>
like most things that aren't written up by a spec doc of people who don't understand the problem
13:43
<@Tarinaky>
Oh, yeah, design by committee. I'd forgotten about that.
13:43
<@Tarinaky>
I was thinking more about it being slower than BIOS because it supports more /stuff/.
13:44
<@Tarinaky>
And all the other problems one associates with project mass.
13:57
< AnnoDomini>
I hate touchpad.
13:57
< AnnoDomini>
I hate touchpads to death.
13:57 * TheWatcher stabs javascript and form submission in the head
14:19
< AnnoDomini>
WTF. After installing some drivers, the laptop will not boot.
14:24
<@froztbyte>
you just hate shitty touchpads
14:24
<@froztbyte>
(yes, there is a difference)
14:24
< AnnoDomini>
Every touchpad I've ever used has been shit.
14:24
<@froztbyte>
the apple ones do an exceptional job of not being hateful
14:25
<@froztbyte>
some others come close, but aren't big enough
14:29
< AnnoDomini>
"All boot options are tried." GAH.
14:29
< AnnoDomini>
You were booting just fine a minute ago you stupid shit!
14:29
< AnnoDomini>
I can't even seem to boot from the bootable USB Win7 installation disk I made.
14:31
< AnnoDomini>
Got the fucker.
14:32
< AnnoDomini>
Again, a problem with the fucking, newfangled, godawful, incompatible-by-default, new boot system.
14:34
< AnnoDomini>
froztbyte: Well, what little I've used of the Mac stuff hasn't beet poorer than other experiences... well, except for the lack of a right button.
14:34
<@froztbyte>
two-finger click
14:34
<@froztbyte>
(fwiw)
14:35
< AnnoDomini>
And apparently Microsoft is behind all this boot fuckery, pressurinng hardware vendors to do defaults the way they are now.
14:36
<@froztbyte>
yes
14:36
<@froztbyte>
they were one of the lead motivators and implementers in uefi
14:36
<@froztbyte>
implementors?
14:36
<@froztbyte>
fucking english
14:36
< AnnoDomini>
I hope they choke on it.
14:36
<@froztbyte>
this is basically the same shit as TPM
14:37
< AnnoDomini>
TPM?
14:37
<@froztbyte>
generalized computing make some people's lives hard, so they try to control it again
14:37
<@froztbyte>
AnnoDomini: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module
14:37
<@froztbyte>
this kind of shit will keep coming until people realize that it's okay if someone doesn't like you
14:37
<@froztbyte>
and that it's okay if someone actually wants to own a thing
14:39
< AnnoDomini>
WTF. WTF!
14:39
< AnnoDomini>
Now it will only boot if I have a bootable USB stick...
14:39
< AnnoDomini>
That is, the stick is found and temporarily given the option of starting from that, I do nothing, Windows starts.
14:39
< AnnoDomini>
If the USB stick is not present, the boot fails.
14:46 esucg0aq47trgb8 [esucg0aq47@Nightstar-v4d.8k8.153.41.IP] has joined #code
14:46
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
YOU MAY BE WATCHED
14:46
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
WARNING WARNING WARNING, WARNING
14:46
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
WARNING WARNING WARNING, WARNING WARNING
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
YOU MAYWATCHED
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
YOU MAY BE WATCHED
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
YOU MAY BE WATCHED
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
)
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
Do usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
تستخد ارااسرئ اشات اس ب تجسس!!!!!!!
14:47
< esucg0aq47trgb8>
Egyptian moslem
14:47 mode/#code [+b *!esucg0aq47@*.41.IP] by gnolam
14:47 esucg0aq47trgb8 was kicked from #code by gnolam [Off you go.]
14:48
< Syka_>
oh no the usa and israel
14:49
< Syka_>
it's all part of the *jewish plot*, responsible for things like 9/11 and hanukkah being so hard to spell
14:49
< Syka_>
</sarc>
14:50
<@Azash>
What on earth?
14:50
<@froztbyte>
just bot spam
14:50
<@Tarinaky>
I may be being watched? I didn't know my fake cleavage was that spectacular.
14:50
< Syka_>
Azash: spambot~
14:50
<@froztbyte>
although, entertainingly
14:50
<@Azash>
Also, I just sat through the easiest infosec exam ever
14:50
<@froztbyte>
I first saw it happening just sliiiiightly before the snowden stuff
14:51
<@Azash>
1. How are digital signatures used in network protocols? How is RSA used for signing and validating? Explain how signatures releate to certificates and what operations are required.
14:51
<@Azash>
2 a) Explain how canaries prevent buffer overflow attacks. b) Give an example of issues with symbolic linkage.
14:51
<@Azash>
3) Explain how ARP poisoning works and how one can attempt to prevent it.
14:51
<@Azash>
4) Present the SQL injection attact and defensive techniques.
14:54 Vornicus is now known as Vash
14:55
< AnnoDomini>
Hmmm. The boot sector might be fucked. Might be because I deleted everything to install Win7.
14:59 ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy
15:02
<@Tarinaky>
AnnoDomini: Installing Win7 should have unfucked it. Might be UEFI being a dick again.
15:03
<@Tarinaky>
Since the install cd will need a different signature to the actual install (I think)
15:04
< AnnoDomini>
I've turned secureboot and fastboot off, I've enabled CMOS.
15:04
<@Tarinaky>
Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor?
15:05
< AnnoDomini>
Historic name for nonvolatile BIOS memory.
15:06
< AnnoDomini>
Hrm. The recovery tools do not find anything wrong.
15:11
<@Azash>
Doesn't CMOS refer to the type of memory?
15:12
< AnnoDomini>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMOS_(disambiguation)
15:12
<@Tarinaky>
Azash: Pretty sure CMOS refers to the chemical composition of the IC out of which the memory is built.
15:12
< RichyB>
CMOS specifically refers to a type of semiconductor design & manufacture
15:13
< RichyB>
but for hysterical raisins, it also got abused to mean "the tiny blob of battery-backed RAM in an IBM PC".
15:18
< AnnoDomini>
Strange that the recovery tools name the system partition "D" rather than "C" as it appears from within the system.
15:36
< RichyB>
It would be very unstrange if the recovery tools had a RAMdisk mounted a C: with the recovery programs in it.
15:36
< RichyB>
*mounted at C:
15:48
< AnnoDomini>
"Sorry, it looks like you're on a slow connection, so this might take a while."
15:48
< AnnoDomini>
No, Microsoft. You are installing the newest Office from the internet.
15:48
< AnnoDomini>
This does not mean that my connection is slow.
15:49
<@celticminstrel>
Huh?
15:50
<@celticminstrel>
I'm guessing the thing it says might take awhile isn't the office update.
15:50 JustBob [justbob@Nightstar-5smtnf.or.comcast.net] has joined #code
15:51
< AnnoDomini>
No, it's the office installation. I purchased an Office 2013. Comes with no DVD or other installation media, simply instructions how to install it from the internet.
15:52
<@TheWatcher>
It depends on their definition of 'slow'
15:52
<@celticminstrel>
Okay then...
15:52
<@TheWatcher>
Maybe they thing 'slow' is 'not directly connected to a gigabit internet connection
15:53
< AnnoDomini>
Apparently, it's "not fast enough to download multiple gigabytes under 5 minutes".
15:53
<@TheWatcher>
Psh. How horribly pedestrian!
15:57
< AnnoDomini>
!roll 2095+895
16:00 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
--- Log closed Fri Nov 15 16:27:10 2013
--- Log opened Fri Nov 15 16:27:19 2013
16:27 TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-ksqup0.co.uk] has joined #code
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16:35 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
16:37
<@gnolam>
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thenightwatch.pdf
16:40
<@gnolam>
"I can realistically give a kernel hacker a nickname like Diamondback or Zeus Hammer. In contrast, no one has ever said, These semi-transparent icons are really semi-transparent! IS THIS THE WORK OF ZEUS HAMMER?"
16:40
< RichyB>
oh my that's epic
16:40
< RichyB>
and yes, I have a strict budget for the number of times I may directly apply the adjective "epic" per year, ironically or otherwise
16:41
< RichyB>
That writing is worth spending this quarter's entire "epic" budget.
16:55 Vash [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
17:09
<@Azash>
RichyB: I hope you didn't watch Blizzcon
17:10
< RichyB>
I'm pretty uninterested in what Blizzard are up to.
17:10
< RichyB>
They don't publish anything in genres that I want to play.
17:12
<@Azash>
Mm, it was pretty epicepicepic
17:29
<@froztbyte>
it probably wasn't
17:30
<@froztbyte>
you just fall into the right class of psychological triggers they design for ;)
--- Log closed Fri Nov 15 17:38:13 2013
--- Log opened Fri Nov 15 17:38:20 2013
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17:44 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
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18:00 AnnoDomini is now known as Sam
18:18
<&ToxicFrog>
"One time I tried to create a list<map<int>>, and my syntax
18:18
<&ToxicFrog>
errors caused the dead to walk among the living. Such things
18:18
<&ToxicFrog>
are clearly unfortunate."
--- Log closed Fri Nov 15 18:46:11 2013
--- Log opened Fri Nov 15 18:46:18 2013
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18:46 Irssi: #code: Total of 38 nicks [15 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 23 normal]
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18:47
<@celticminstrel>
Fortunately that's no longer a syntax error. Yay!
19:20
< Sam>
That's strange. bootrec /scanos doesn't detect any existing Windows installation.
19:27
< Sam>
I'd like to try installing some kind of boot manager to help solve this issue.
19:27
< Sam>
What would you guys recommend?
20:18
< Sam>
Urgh. I'm trying to use something called the Plop Boot Manager 5.0, but so far I've only managed to break Windows booting at all.
20:19
< Sam>
(The Windows recovery stuff fixed that one.)
20:19
< Sam>
(But the system still won't boot on its own!)
20:19
<&ToxicFrog>
No idea, sorry. I don't speak windows bootloader.
20:19
< Sam>
I may have to make some tiny USB stick into a bootable thing, and call it a security measure. Ya can't boot it without it! (:P{
20:20
<&McMartin>
Windows's native bootloader these days is BCDEDIT, which is kind of hard to use
20:21
< Sam>
See, I'm not getting to any bootloader. I'm getting dropped at the hardware error specific to Samsung.
20:21
< Sam>
I think the problem is somehow that I installed Windows on the wrong disk.
20:21
<&McMartin>
Oof.
20:21
< Sam>
There are two here. One which is 20 GB and change and one that is the advertised 500 GB.
20:22
< Sam>
The former is occupied in 100 MB by some "reserved by system" thing.
20:22
<&McMartin>
That's where BCDEDIT does its work, yeah.
20:23
< Sam>
Trying to boot the first partition of the first disk fails. Trying to boot the first partition of the second disk succeeds in Windows.
20:31 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.]
20:32 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code
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20:32
<&McMartin>
The typical Linux bootloader is grub2, the typical Windows one is BCDedit, which need to be pointed at that System Reserved drive
20:32
<&McMartin>
I'm not good with either but I'd start with BCDedit if you don't intend to dual boot. google "bcdedit msdn" for instructions
20:33
< Sam>
OK. I'll try that, hank you.
20:34
<&McMartin>
I think you need to get the boot control database on that "system reserved" partition to realize that windows is on the first partition of the second drive, and then it should start working.
20:47
< Sam>
Hmm. The bcdedit thing lists two things, the manager on drive C and loader on drive D.
20:47
< Sam>
But Windows upon starting assigns drive D the letter C and nothing to drive C.
20:49 Sam is now known as AnnoDomini
20:55 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
21:07 * AnnoDomini tries changing the boot manager to point no D, which fails with corrupted booting.
21:09
< AnnoDomini>
Let's see if manually reverting it works for repairs.
21:09
< AnnoDomini>
It does!
21:13 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
21:20 * AnnoDomini gnashes teeth at this problem.
21:20
< AnnoDomini>
I'm going to try to delete the reserved partition.
21:24
< AnnoDomini>
AHa! May have found the problem.
21:24
< AnnoDomini>
The smaller disk is SSD.
21:24
< AnnoDomini>
The bigger one is HDD.
21:26 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
21:28
<@Alek>
that's probably not it.
21:28
<@Alek>
check the partitions.
21:29
< AnnoDomini>
There's nothing obviously wrong with the partitions.
21:32
< AnnoDomini>
Hmm. OK. That's interesting. I can't see the SSD under boot options, just the HDD.
21:32
< AnnoDomini>
It might be the issue here - Part of the Windows boot up crap is stored on the SSD, which the UEFI/BIOS can't see.
21:33
<&ToxicFrog>
Weird that UEFI can't see it. Legacy partition table or something?
21:33
< AnnoDomini>
I... don't know. I've just installed the system today, it's Windows 7.
21:34
<&McMartin>
That *is* pretty weird and a thing I would not have guessed
21:41
< AnnoDomini>
Stupid fucking Windows, couldn't just ignore the bloody SSD drive, mumble, mumble, had to hurr hurr and install an important part on somewhere it can't reach now.
21:41
< AnnoDomini>
OK. A potential remedy would be to move the thrice-damned boot manager from that disk to the one I can see.
21:52 VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code
21:54 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
22:01 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
22:14
< AnnoDomini>
Hmm. I may have more permanently knocked this thing out by making another boot thing on the HDD.
22:15
< AnnoDomini>
It fails in a slightly new way, "can't boot because the device it needs is inaccessible", and repairing it with the automatic repair thingy from the installation USB doesn't cut it.
22:22
< AnnoDomini>
OK. Maybe not. It starts again.
22:40 Stalker [Z@Nightstar-484uip.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
--- Log closed Sat Nov 16 00:00:25 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Fri, 15 Nov 2013< code.20131114.log - code.20131116.log >

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