code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 22 Oct 2013< code.20131021.log - code.20131023.log >
--- Log opened Tue Oct 22 00:00:17 2013
00:01 thalass [thalass@Nightstar-141785b5.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code
00:01
<@Reiv>
That's still a good start~
00:01
<@Tarinaky>
You can help you know :p
00:03
<@Reiv>
I would want to learn how to program again first.
00:03
<@Reiv>
And learn OpenGL. I should probably do that anyway. Sigh.
00:19 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
00:23 * Tarinaky glowers at KSP for doing a silly.
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00:39
<&ToxicFrog>
Reiv: you can get surprisingly far with openGL-backed APIs without actually knowing openGL at this point.
00:39
<&ToxicFrog>
Although this may not be the case if you want to go 3d~
00:40
<@Tarinaky>
And compatability mode is piss easy anyway.
00:40
<@Tarinaky>
ToxicFrog: Don't suppose I can trouble you a pair of eyes over my code to see what I'm doing wrong with my err... whatever tha angle is called.
00:41
<@Tarinaky>
Even if I want to land this minmus probe first >.<
00:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Tarinaky: go ahead, but I can't guarantee I'll be any help.
00:41
<@Tarinaky>
https://github.com/Tarinaky/DuelFieldStars/blob/qt/solar.py
00:41
<@Azash>
What're you working on, Tarinaky?
00:41
<@Tarinaky>
Hang on, maneuver node coming up.
00:49
< thalass>
I can't see any errors, but my code-fu is lower than yours. :P It's interesting. You're modelling orbits?
00:50
<&ToxicFrog>
thalass: he's trying to derive the ellipse (easy) and position as a function of time (hard) for orbital bodies, starting with the solar system.
00:51 * thalass nods
00:55 * thalass is going to be trying to map the shape of a room with an ultrasonic sensor, soon, but first: moving. :P
00:55
< thalass>
also: build up codefu
00:57 thalass is now known as Thalass|walkingbus
00:57
<@Azash>
Thalformers! More than meets the eye
00:58
< Thalass|walkingbus>
hee
00:59 Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody
00:59
<@Azash>
And Kindamorning to you
00:59
<@Kindamoody>
:P
01:00
<@Kindamoody>
It's 2am, not really morning yet. I just can't sleep. >_<
01:00
<@Azash>
So it's.. Kindamorning?
01:01
<@Kindamoody>
It's Kindabellyache. >_<
01:01
<@Azash>
Ow :<
01:02
<@Kindamoody>
My own fault for eating salad with raw onions just before bedtime. But it was so good! o.o
01:03
<@Azash>
I feel obliged to link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bpS-cOBK6Q&feature=related
01:05
<@Kindamoody>
These were red onions, and it was just a spoonful... :P
01:06
<@Kindamoody>
Weird song, by the way. :P
01:09
<@Azash>
I'm surprised you've never heard it before, actually
01:11
<@Kindamoody>
I'm pretty sure I've heard it, I just haven't really listened to it.
01:12 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
01:20 * Tarinaky begins to do SCIENCE! on Minmus.
01:29
<@Tarinaky>
And my rover just commited sepuku on a nice bit of flat ground by throwing itself into the air.
01:29
<@Tarinaky>
-.-
01:29
<@Tarinaky>
At least I got some good Science before I tried driving it.
01:33
<@Tarinaky>
In hindsight I'd have probably had more fun with a Gerry Anderson-style jumping craft.
01:54
<@Reiv>
In passing: Don't forget you can go to circles orbiting on circles if you so desire. It worked for the ancients! :p
02:01
<@Tarinaky>
I thought that was specifically to deal with retrograde motion?
02:01
<@Tarinaky>
Also: Anno already made that joke about epicycles.
02:02
<@Reiv>
Tarinaky: IIRC, a circle on a circle with the right math in them is mathematically equivalent to an ellipse.
02:02
<@Reiv>
With the wrong math it's a spirograph, which would at least make for an amusing-looking failure state. :p
02:03
<@Tarinaky>
I'm pretty sure I just have the wrong math right now.
02:03
<@Tarinaky>
On that note. I should sleep.
02:03
<@Tarinaky>
I actually have crap to do in the morning.
02:13 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
02:21 Thalass|walkingbus is now known as Thalass
02:26
< Thalass>
With that orbit thing, in its current state does it draw elipses? I'm getting a rough 10 point star, effectively, as the points are separated by about 20% of the circumference. Possibly this is caused by my crusty old netbook.
02:31
<@Tarinaky>
Thalass: Nope.
02:31
<@Tarinaky>
Thalass: The points are on an elipse, but they seem to be randomly distributed about it.
02:32
<@Tarinaky>
Also, meant to be sleeping.
02:36
<@Azash>
So yeah Tarinaky what are you doing
02:37
< Thalass>
Ah ok. G'night Tarinaky
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10:39
<@Tarinaky>
Argh, overslept.
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13:37
<@Tarinaky>
Okay. I... still have no idea what's wrong :/
13:45
<@Tarinaky>
Okay, one thing I don't understand.. why is Mean Anomaly nt?
14:00
<@Tarinaky>
Setting the mean motion = 1/period gives me a segment of the circle/ellipse.
14:01
<@Tarinaky>
Which, again, I don't understand.
14:01
<@Tarinaky>
Ah!
14:01
<@Tarinaky>
2pi t/period works for mean anomaly.
14:02
<@Tarinaky>
Added bonus: the true anomaly calculation is giving me counter-clockwise rotation 'for free'. No need to do any transformation :D
14:13
<@Tarinaky>
Hurray for unit errors and badly described web pages :/
--- Log closed Tue Oct 22 14:13:56 2013
--- Log opened Tue Oct 22 14:14:03 2013
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18:25
< ErikMesoy>
When did OpenOffice start automatically inserting "smart" quotes?
18:27
<@Tamber>
When the option got ticked.
18:28
< ErikMesoy>
I'm using OpenOffice Impress for the first time ever because it's the default program set for opening a funny filetype here. I'm pretty sure I didn't tick it. Maybe it's set in the file?
18:28
<@Tamber>
Aha, "first time ever"; it's likely to be a "because this is what MS Office users expect" default.
18:30
< ErikMesoy>
http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/download/file.php?id=7247&sid=986e7796afa7a d9e8ff0d1e24212552c&mode=view <-- Internet suggests I turn it off here. OO Impress *lacks this tab*. What the hell.
18:31
<@Tamber>
Sure it's for the same version? :/
18:31
< ErikMesoy>
Maybe not. But here is what i have: http://i.imgur.com/rsZ62zP.png I would expect it to be under Replace if moved, replacing dumb quotes with smart quotes. Can't find it.
18:34
<@Tamber>
Hmmm
18:39
<@gnolam>
->Options
18:40
<@gnolam>
No wait, ->Localized Options
18:40
<@gnolam>
Also, OpenOffice? How old a version are you running?
18:41
< ErikMesoy>
Thanks. 3.4.1, it came with this computer.
18:43
<@gnolam>
In LibreOffice 4, SVG import actually /seems to work/.
18:46
<@gnolam>
(Previous OpenOffices, claimed to be able to embed SVGs but really couldn't)
18:47
<@gnolam>
-,
18:47
<@gnolam>
Can't type. Need food and caffeine.
18:47 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
19:17
< RichyB>
Wow, this is um, obscenely fucking nice. http://codecube.io/TxJKwG
19:17
< RichyB>
http://hmarr.com/2013/oct/16/codecube-runnable-gists/
19:19
< RichyB>
That thing just sits there, you POST some C, Python, Go! or Ruby at it, and it spins up a new Docker container (close relative of an LXC container), compiles and runs your code, hands you the results.
19:20
< RichyB>
It is doing that in less than a second for me including the network round-trip.
19:20
< Syka>
I don't think it spins up a new docker container
19:20
< Syka>
that shit takes minutes
19:21
<&ToxicFrog>
ErikMesoy: use LaTeX~
19:22
< ErikMesoy>
ToxicFrog: I am mostly diagramming. I thought LaTeX was for mostly textual documentation with very complicated equations/footnotes/symbols, not so much when the thing shifts over into graphics?
19:24
< RichyB>
Syka, strongly suspect that it's successfully doing that; the description says so and the code's up here https://github.com/hmarr/codecube
19:26 Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @iospace, Typherix, @Pandemic, @Syloq, Xires, Attilla, @froztbyte, LurtzCZ, @Reiv, @Orthia, (+13 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
19:31 Netsplit over, joins: jeroud, &jerith, @Orthia, @Pandemic, @Reiv, @iospace, @froztbyte, @gnolam, &McMartin, Stalker (+13 more)
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20:13
< ToxicFrog_>
ErikMesoy: mostly true; you can write diagrams directly in LaTeX with TikZ or pstricks.
20:13
< ToxicFrog_>
That said, I thought OO Impress was the powerpoint clone?
20:14
< ErikMesoy>
And I thought OO Draw was.
20:15
< ToxicFrog_>
No, that's the diagramming tool.
20:15 * ToxicFrog_ checks. Yeah, Impress is for making slideshows.
20:15
< jeroud>
Impress is the presentation thing, Draw is the drawing thing.
20:15
< ToxicFrog_>
Generally you make your diagrams in something else and then import them.
20:19
< RichyB>
OO Draw is, uh.
20:19
< RichyB>
I'd rather use Inkscape and import the SVGs than attempt to use OO Draw again.
20:20
<@gnolam>
^ This.
20:20
< ErikMesoy>
Draw was fine for drawing boxes with lines between them, which is about all I ever used it and Powerpoint for. :p
20:21
<@gnolam>
And as previously stated, new versions of LibreOffice can actually import SVGs.
20:23 * Alek thinks he used Vizio or some such thing for diagramming, back around the turn of the century. At DeVry. *spits*
20:23
< Syka>
visio is so bad
20:23
< Syka>
dia is also bad
20:24
< jeroud>
Visio was great before MS bought it.
20:35
< RichyB>
ErikMesoy, I resort to Inkscape when I have to do that. I find Draw utterly obtuse to use. I have no fecking speck of a clue how to get it to draw readably-sized text on boxes that fit onto a finite-sized canvas.
20:36
<@gnolam>
Oh gods. I don't even want to know what Microsoft has done to it now.
20:36
<@gnolam>
Given what they've done to the rest of Office.
20:36
< ErikMesoy>
RichyB: "on"? I can either use the textbox tool,or click the graphic box itself and just start typing, then adjust font size in either case.
20:43
< RichyB>
Yeah, that seems to involve fuckery with text becoming unreadable, receding miles from the edges of the boxes, or the boxes being miles long.
20:43
< RichyB>
I give insufficient fucks about OO Draw to learn how to use it properly when Inkscape is better anyway.
20:45 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code
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20:46 * Derakon goes to work on making a pure-C++ control program for his camera, on the off-chance that the C++/Python transition is causing problems, discovers to his surprise that threads weren't part of the C++ standard until 2011!
20:46
<&Derakon>
I would have thought that'd have been standard for most of a decade.
20:46
<&McMartin>
Yeah, uh, no
20:46
<&Derakon>
So VS2010 can't build my program.
20:46
<&Derakon>
(And then imagine my further surprise when I can't download VS2013 without an account on the MS website...sigh)
20:47
<&McMartin>
Uh, how about 2012, the latest actually published version?
20:47
<&McMartin>
Also, expandable arrays (std::vector) have been part of the standard since 1998 and you couldn't actually use them in C++ code until 2005 because the standard libraries weren't there
20:47
< ToxicFrog_>
Derakon: suprisingly many languages do not have threads as any part of the language spec, just as a library
20:47
< RichyB>
Derakon, er don't no please don't
20:47
<&Derakon>
McM: the MS website tries to throw me to VS2013 instead.
20:47
<&McMartin>
This surprises me
20:47
< RichyB>
oh wait
20:47
<&McMartin>
Anyway, if you want to do cross-platform C++ development, use the boost libraries
20:47
< RichyB>
I've read that the new C standard threads are terrible compared to either posix or windows threads
20:48
< RichyB>
but I don't know about the C++11 standard threads at all, maybe those are actually good.
20:48
< RichyB>
s/those are/that API is/
20:48
<&McMartin>
Most of the things later added to the C++ standard started life in the boost standard libraries.
20:48
<&Derakon>
This is a one-shot test program.
20:48 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
20:48
<&Derakon>
I don't really want to get bogged down in dependency hell if I can avoid it.
20:48
<&McMartin>
Boost also gives you reference-counted garbage collection for free
20:48
<&Derakon>
(If this test program demonstrates that the C/Python gap is actually the problem, then I'll implement a more serious solution)
20:49
<&Derakon>
Boost is also a pain in the ass to install IME.
20:49
<&Derakon>
It's gigantic.
20:49
< RichyB>
Derakon, what's your data dependency pattern? If you can, use OpenMP because it's the easiest way to parallelise a C or C++ program by far.
20:49
<&McMartin>
You don't install *all* of it.
20:49 * ToxicFrog_ eyes the fuck out of this codebase
20:49
<&McMartin>
If you just need "I need to spin off a worker thread", use the OS native for a test program
20:49
<&Derakon>
RichyB: standard producer/consumer model based on a std::list.
20:49
< RichyB>
You "just" wonk "#pragma omp parallel for" around the outermost for loop whose iteration order you don't care about and it takes care of the rest for you.
20:49
< ToxicFrog_>
The default layer is named "DefaultLayer" in the data returned by the server and "" in the config files.
20:49
< ToxicFrog_>
Thanks a bunch.
20:50
<&McMartin>
(You install shared_ptr, which is just a header file, and then thread and filesystem)
20:50
< RichyB>
Ooh, no, OpenMP is primarily for pure computation. You want ordinary threads for concurrency, not parallelism. :)
20:50
<&Derakon>
Yeah, this is just "Can I receive and store images from this camera without shit blowing up".
20:50
<&Derakon>
No complex computation.
20:50
<&Derakon>
Just a ~50MBps datastream.
20:52
<&Derakon>
...the only version of VS2012 I can find is for Windows Phone. Goddammit, MS.
20:52
<&McMartin>
This is bizarre
20:52
<&McMartin>
I swear I was hunting for this just last week
20:53
<&McMartin>
Okay then
20:53
<&McMartin>
This appears to have changed at some point in the last 14 days
20:53
<&Derakon>
...if I click on the "Products" tab then it shows me 2013 editions, and then Visual Studio 2010, but no 2012. WTF.
20:53
<&McMartin>
Did they rename 2012?
20:53
<&Derakon>
Beats me!
20:53
<&McMartin>
2010 isn't as bad as I had been led to believe, at any rate
20:53
<&Derakon>
But it can't build threads-using programs~
20:53
<&McMartin>
Is there something in 2012/2013/whatever it is now that you need?
20:53
<&Derakon>
2013 is supposed to be able to.
20:53
<&McMartin>
Um
20:54
<&McMartin>
Oh
20:54
<&McMartin>
Can't you just call CreateThread() like a normal person
20:54
<&Derakon>
...I don't know, I haven't done threading in C++ in, uh, ever. I googled "C++ threads" and it said "just do std::thread(func, arg1, arg2...)".
20:55
< RichyB>
Yes. I'd use Win32 threads or Cygwin's pthreads implementation in your situation, since you have no idea how mature VC2013's C++11 threads might be.
20:55 * Derakon googles for "Windows C++ thread", finds completely different resources.
20:55
< RichyB>
or mostly since you won't need a new compiler for htat
20:55
< RichyB>
*that
20:55
<&Derakon>
I don't know why I keep forgetting that Windows doesn't implement POSIX.
20:55
<&Derakon>
Somehow it keeps happening!
20:56
< Syka>
there's a simple solution for this
20:56
< RichyB>
I will admit to being in love with pthreads not because of its technical merits or otherwise, but because I once read 0.5 of a book on it that had Alice in Wonderland quotes ALL OVER THE PLACE in the text
20:56 * Syka prescribes 700MBs of Debian
20:56
<&Derakon>
Syka: great! You got the vendor to write Linux libraries?
20:56
<&McMartin>
Syka: Build an entirely new data center! Truly a minimal solution
20:56
< Syka>
Derakon: yes, I threatened them with a disassembled toaster
20:56
<&McMartin>
Or you can rename your call to a function that takes a void (*void()) and returns void
20:57 ToxicFrog_ is now known as ToxicFrog
20:57
<&McMartin>
To a *different* function, rather
20:57 mode/#code [+ao ToxicFrog ToxicFrog] by ChanServ
20:58 * Derakon eyes the example of using CreateThread in the official docs, wonders if anyone at MS understands the meaning of the word "simple".
20:58
< RichyB>
Syka, I was going to say that what Derakon is doing now, pretty much *is* that solution.
20:58
<&Derakon>
Their "simple" example is 155 lines long.
20:58
< RichyB>
i.e. sticking up a program on a Windows machine that works with the vendor's Windows-only drivers and exports the data over gigabit ethernet so that it can be moved to useful machines. ;)
20:59
<&McMartin>
The Windows API is pretty much unusable without google+MSDN in a browser window, yes
21:00
< RichyB>
Though I'm not sure that Derakon isn't moving it to another Windows machine⦠but I leave that entirely up to his conscience. ;)
21:00
<&Derakon>
...why do they want me to specify the initial stack size ._.
21:00
< RichyB>
2 << 20 bytes should be enough for practically anything.
21:00
<&Derakon>
I'm not convinced that downloading VS2013 wouldn't be easier than trying to parse this one function's shitty documentation.
21:00
< RichyB>
Maybe. Go for it.
21:00
<&McMartin>
I'd still say just using boost::thread is still the least pain
21:01
<&McMartin>
Or SDL threads!
21:01
<&McMartin>
>_>
21:01
< RichyB>
oh yeah there's an idea
21:01
< RichyB>
SDL threads are pretty close to pthreads. The API is fairly sane.
21:01
<&ToxicFrog>
Write the whole thing in clojure, let the jvm worry about it~
21:01
< RichyB>
Similar to, I mean.
21:01 You're now known as TheWatcher
21:01
<&Derakon>
TF: if clojure were an option, so would Python.
21:01
<&McMartin>
TF: The whole point is to see if FFIs are the problem, so C and C++ are the only options.
21:03
<&ToxicFrog>
Oh.
21:14 * Derakon fakes a bunch of data to create a stupid MSDN account, forgets to set the birthdate to something more recent than Jan 1st 2013, is therefore unable to use the account without a parent account to authorize it.
21:14 * Derakon creates another account with a proper birthdate by appending "-msdn" to the email address, is unable to validate it because he's not using the right fucking email address.
21:15
<&Derakon>
Jesus Fuck Microsoft, you don't need your developers to create fucking accounts with you just to download your fucking software.
21:15
<&Derakon>
Pardon my French.
21:16
<&Derakon>
Ah, I did the wrong kind of suffix fixing for email addresses. It has to be "+msdn" or the like. And of course if there's a + in your email address then the MS website rejects it as invalid.
21:17
<&McMartin>
Have you also considered using cygwin+gcc, which will let you use pthreads~
21:17
<&Derakon>
:p
21:18
<&McMartin>
(I hate cygwin, but pthreads is one of the few things MSYS will not provide you)
21:19
<&ToxicFrog>
The developers of sites that reject email addresses with + in them will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
21:19
< ErikMesoy>
The people who fought for their right to have + in their email address will be second.
21:19
< Syka>
i dibs the bank developers who stop me having multiple tabs for next
21:20
<@froztbyte>
eh, + in an address isn't that bad
21:20
<@froztbyte>
there are worse things in SMTP.
21:20
<&Derakon>
(I note I also can't delete the too-young account; my only options are to get a parent to sign in, or to sign out. Better not make that particular fuck up yourself!)
21:20
< Syka>
want to view two accounts at once? fuck you, this is 1996, tabbed browsers don't exist
21:20
<@froztbyte>
Derakon: this is why I'm born on 1 april 1984.
21:21
<&ToxicFrog>
Pretty sure that even in 1996 I was viewing multiple pages at once by opening multiple Mosaic windows
21:22
<&Derakon>
Froztbyte: yeah, I typo'd the birthdate (or near enough; it's a dropdown menu).
21:22
<@froztbyte>
urgh.
21:22
<&Derakon>
And now there is AFAICT literally no way to fix it except for creating another bogus account and claiming that account is older.
21:22
<@froztbyte>
I hate those damned things
21:22
<&Derakon>
(Which requires creating a new email address, since the old one is already claimed and I can't use + in the email to use it twice)
21:23
< Syka>
man, microsoft makes me sad
21:23
< Syka>
their certification sites are sobad
21:23
<&Derakon>
This could be so simple! Just have the download link actually download the file!
21:23
< Syka>
Derakon: i dont know why they want you to sign up
21:24
< Syka>
they could just ask the NSA to notify them, since they know it anyway
21:24
<&Derakon>
For the precious, precious metadata and adbux.
21:24
<@Tamber>
But then they wouldn't be able to spam you with marketing crap!
21:24
<@Tamber>
...damn, too slow.
21:24
< Syka>
man
21:24
< Syka>
imagine if the NSA gets privatised
21:24
<@Tamber>
*wince*
21:24
<&ToxicFrog>
At this point I would have torrented it^W^Wdecided to use something else long ago.
21:24
< Syka>
you'd think googles advertising is bad
21:25
<&Derakon>
TF: yeah, looks like I'm installing boost instead, I guess.
21:25
<@froztbyte>
Derakon: it's funny, though
21:25
< Syka>
at least those that get a penis enlargement pill spam email will actually find it convenient
21:25
<@froztbyte>
I don't know what metadata they get out of me
21:25
< Syka>
since the NSA would have checked
21:25
<@froztbyte>
or adbux
21:25
<&Derakon>
(The main reason I wanted to install VS2012 in the first place was just because using our existing VS2010 install requires me to be on a shared computer)
21:25
<@froztbyte>
since in the latter case, my browser tries /very/ hard to make ads go away
21:25
<@froztbyte>
and in the former case, I'm known by various names such as "Christfuckdammit McSeriously", etc
21:26 * froztbyte has a notes file that maps site<->name
21:26
<&Derakon>
Froztbyte: but if they have a 1% accuracy rate on the account data people provide, then making more people provide account data means they get more accurate account info...on an absolute scale.
21:26
<@froztbyte>
heee
21:26
<@froztbyte>
irunno
21:26
<&Derakon>
Who cares if they send out 99 million emails that never get read? It's the 1 million that do that count.
21:26
<@froztbyte>
we have a project at $work where the client loves them their numbers
21:26
<@froztbyte>
they have an age gateway in the way of the site
21:26
<@froztbyte>
(they're an alcohol company)
21:27
<@froztbyte>
and currently they're trying to understand why they only have a 12% clickthrough rate.
21:27
< Syka>
i dont get why theres an age barrier
21:27
<@Tamber>
So they can say they're doing something.
21:27
<&Derakon>
Froztbyte is in South Africa IIRC.
21:28
<@froztbyte>
I am
21:28
<@froztbyte>
but this client is not.
21:28
<&Derakon>
So different laws may ap...ah.
21:28
<@Tamber>
"Something must be done; I am doing something; Therefore..."
21:28
< Syka>
does .za have that by law?
21:28
<&Derakon>
Anyway, I go now, to the aforementioned shared computer. Bleh.
21:28
< Syka>
the US does, I think?
21:28
<@froztbyte>
some of the same laws apply here, just different numbers
21:28
< ErikMesoy>
Tamber: I thought it was "Something must be done; this is something; therefore I must do this".
21:28
<@Tamber>
Close enough.
21:28
<@Tamber>
:)
21:28
<@froztbyte>
anyway, this age gate isn't mandatory, it's just how they've chosen to comply with the laws
21:29
< Syka>
i don't get that with beer
21:29
<@froztbyte>
this is (yet another reason) why I consider laws to be a crock of shit.
21:29
<@froztbyte>
even more than one crock of shit.
21:29
< Syka>
are they preparing for when you can download irl things over the internet
21:29
<@froztbyte>
Derakon: what device are you typing from btw?
21:29
< Syka>
in which case, people would just pirate their beer
21:30
< ErikMesoy>
And there will be fake beer recipes floating around
21:30
< ErikMesoy>
People will prank their friends by distributing alcohol-free beer that gives you flatulence
21:31
< ErikMesoy>
It only takes one guy to invent this and a million teenagers to think it would be HILARIOUS.
21:31
< Syka>
rickroll, but in alcohol form
21:31 * Derakon pops in from the other computer, where boost is already installed, tries to find the threading library...C:\boost_1_46_1\bin.v2\libs\thread\build\msvc-9.0\release\address-mode l-64\link-static\threading-multi\what\the\fuck\is\going\on\here...
21:31
<&Derakon>
froztbyte: I had been typing from my laptop.
21:32
< Syka>
Derakon: ...\oh\god\i\can\see\forever\
21:32
<@Tamber>
[‚¶]\and\its\full\of\stars\
21:33
< ErikMesoy>
[...]\renamed\these\because\cant\find\out\how\to\delete
21:33
<&Derakon>
Just tell me where the header and dll files are! My god!
21:33
< Syka>
[...]\pretty\sure\ntfs\doesnt\support\this\deep\folders\you\know
21:33
< ErikMesoy>
[...]\do\not\use
21:34
<@Tamber>
[...]\help\Im\trapped\in\a\filename\factory[...]?
21:34
< Syka>
\bushhidthetruth.txt
21:34
<@froztbyte>
you're all lying
21:34
<@Tamber>
=D
21:34
<@froztbyte>
folder recursion depth on ntfs is not this deep.
21:35
<@froztbyte>
(I haven't quite counted, but I think you're not over it yet)
21:35
< Syka>
fat32s directory depth limit makes me sad
21:36
< Syka>
since its always 1 layer too shallow for this data i am trying to back up onto a USB drive
21:36
<@froztbyte>
Syka: you do know the solution to that, right?
21:36
<@Tamber>
s/s directory depth limit//
21:37
<@Tamber>
Use a real filesystem? =p
21:37
<@froztbyte>
well, yes, that
21:37
< Syka>
I would use a real filesystem
21:37
< Syka>
but unfortunately windows vista in safemode on a dell dimension doesn't support btrfs
21:38
<@froztbyte>
the hilarious part is that it's 2013 and fat32 is still the most cross-platform fs. :/
21:38
<@froztbyte>
Syka: do it the other way around then.
21:38
< Syka>
i would, but i dont carry around my atx desktop
21:39
<@Tamber>
froztbyte, I managed to figure out how to handle transporting files between OSs and all that. I changed career. =p
21:40
<@froztbyte>
Tamber: haha
21:40
<@froztbyte>
Syka: you own a laptop, no?
21:41
< Syka>
froztbyte: not one with a SATA port
21:41
< Syka>
froztbyte: sealed ultrabook, yo
21:41
<@froztbyte>
Syka: this was not what I asked.
21:41
< Syka>
yes :p
21:41
<@froztbyte>
Syka: you get little external drive controller units that support all the major connector types
21:42
<@froztbyte>
I have one with sata, pata, and mini-pata
21:42
<@froztbyte>
it's basically a removable drive with 3 port types, and no shell
21:50
<&Derakon>
Okay, apparently Windows also doesn't use the POSIX main function.
21:50
<@Tamber>
Windows? POSIX? Ha.
21:50
<&Derakon>
ISTR there's a different main you're supposed to provide for console programs vs. other kinds of programs?
21:51
<&Derakon>
Oh, /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE did it.
21:51
<&Derakon>
I think.
21:51
<@froztbyte>
stop talking
21:51
<@froztbyte>
please
21:51
<@froztbyte>
you're making me remember things I don't want to.
21:51
<&Derakon>
Forbidden knowledge you thought you had forgotten!
21:51
<@froztbyte>
no
21:52
<@froztbyte>
I've just done reasonably well at suppressing it with more useful knowledge
21:52
<@froztbyte>
aside, from elsewhere:
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<fijal> tomprince: why would you have GC and refcounting?
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<fijal> I mean I know few answers as to why
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<fijal> one is "because PHP semantics are fucked up in the head"
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<fijal> but I don't know any good answers to that
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<PenguinO1Doom> fijal: C++ programmers are obsessed with efficiency
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<fijal> PenguinO1Doom: and I'm not?
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<fijal> PenguinO1Doom: I think C++ are obsessed with getting their shit crash
21:52
<@froztbyte>
<PenguinO1Doom> fijal: would you cut your legs off so you could crawl faster?
21:53
<@Tamber>
*snrk*
21:56 * Derakon builds, runs...can't find MSVCP90.dll, of course.
21:56
<&Derakon>
Why isn't that just automatically included in programs anyway? ._.
21:58
<@Tamber>
Because then everyone would complain about it being automatically included, and taking up all that space with all those copies.
21:58
<@froztbyte>
and anyway, what would you do when MSVCP92.dll came out?
21:58
<@froztbyte>
(<//////////////3 windows)
21:59
<&Derakon>
...rebuild your program?
22:00
<&Derakon>
(I note that if you install Visual Studio, then you get approximately a kabillion copies of these with all the example programs it includes)
22:02 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
22:04
<&Derakon>
Hooray, the program runs, fails to connect to the camera, and exits.
22:05
<@froztbyte>
does it exit successfully?
22:05
<@froztbyte>
no zombie? no device port stuck in a half-open state?
22:06
<&Derakon>
Um, it exits with an error code 1, as I told it to.
22:07
<@froztbyte>
yeah but I mean, that's hardly the only thing that matters
22:07
<@froztbyte>
stuck child processes, etc
22:07
<&Derakon>
It's not even close to making it that far.
22:07
<@froztbyte>
but if none of those, then all's good!
22:07
<@froztbyte>
Derakon: ah :D
22:07
<@froztbyte>
well that's a decent first step
22:07
<&Derakon>
It's like "main() {if (not initialize() or not open()) {print "Whoops!"; return 1;}Q
22:08
<&Derakon>
Uh, should be a ", not a Q at the end there.
22:08
<&Derakon>
Qwerty/Dvorak switching screws me up sometimes.
22:16
<&McMartin>
Derakon: There should be a pushbutton for /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE, you should not have to actually say this
22:17
<&McMartin>
Note that properly written Windows-native programs even for the console shouldn't actually use the main() entry point, they should use wmain()
22:17
<&McMartin>
because fuck locales forever
22:20 LurtzCZ [Lurtz@Nightstar-0604e0ca.cust.termsnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
22:22
<&Derakon>
McM: I'm working in the command line with nmake, not in the GUI.
22:22
<&Derakon>
And I finally got it to compile and run and do the right thing.
22:23
<&Derakon>
Hell, the actual program logic, once initialization completes, appears to be working on the first try.
22:39
<&McMartin>
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/linux-is-king-nix-of-the-d ata-center-but-unix-may-live-on-forever/
22:39
<&McMartin>
This is kind of fun
22:39
<&McMartin>
It's also kind of amusing because a co-worker has been getting burned by trying to mix certain third-party plugins on Linux and having DLL Hell problems that don't happen on Windows (well, PE32) or Mac (well, Mach-O)
22:39 * Derakon watches the test control program go.
22:39
<&Derakon>
30k frames so far and no failure...
22:39
<&McMartin>
And it turns out in his research that they also don't happen on ELF... but the relevant parts of the ELF standard are only implemented on Solaris. -_-
22:40
<@Tamber>
*snrk*
22:40
<&Derakon>
I dunno if I want this to succeed or not. I'd really rather not have to integrate a pure-C program into the otherwise pure-Python microscope control.
22:41
<&McMartin>
Hah
22:41
<&Derakon>
On the flipside, working is working.
22:42
<&Derakon>
Maybe I can set up some kind of interprocess comms between the pure-C program running as a daemon and the Python program handling C&C.
22:42
<&Derakon>
Bleh.
22:42
<&McMartin>
Blargh, IPC
22:43
<&McMartin>
Does Python's Win32 library speak NamedPape?
22:43
<&McMartin>
Er
22:43
<&McMartin>
NamedPipe
22:43
<&McMartin>
Also not NamedPope
22:43 * McMartin hurls message potatoes
22:43
<&Derakon>
One major stumbling block is that I'm pretty sure two programs can't hold the camera handler object at the same time.
22:43
<&Derakon>
Dunno about NamedPipe; I've never tried.
22:43
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: python does implement popen() on windows
22:44
<&McMartin>
TF: That's slightly different; windows "Named Pipes" are more like UNIX domain sockets
22:44
<&ToxicFrog>
Right; I'm saying that if you can get away with python controlling process startup etc. you don't need to deal with IPC directly
22:44
<&McMartin>
Ah, yes.
22:45
<&McMartin>
You do have to make sure that you open in unbuffered mode if you need two-way comms though
22:45
<&Derakon>
The big problem would be that the Python program needs to control the camera, and so does the C program, and they both need the camera handle to do it.
22:45
<&Derakon>
I don't know if the vendor API will be happy with two processes having the same handle at the same time, even if they don't trip each other up otherwise.
22:45
<&Derakon>
50k frames without failing; I've never made it that far before.
22:46 VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code
22:50
<&Derakon>
Yeah, this looks like it's working. WTF.
22:50
<&McMartin>
Can you build a Python plugin that does what you need instead and use that instead of theirs >_>
22:51
<&Derakon>
Okay, so, somewhere in the communication between C and Python, there's something screwing up that causes the PCI bus to lock up and experience severely degraded performance.
22:51
<&Derakon>
I think.
22:51
< abudhabi>
Grr. Why do these MX records take so long to take effect?
22:51
<&Derakon>
What I might try is replacing my current SWIG-based glue code with ctypes or something similar.
22:52
<&Derakon>
Alas, their library is not open-source, so I can't just talk directly to the card in Python~
22:53
< abudhabi>
SWIG sounds like there's booze involved somewhere.
22:53
<&Derakon>
SWIG is a program for automatically generating language-specific glue code based on defined interface files.
22:54
<&Derakon>
So you say "This library has a function that accepts two ints and returns a float" and ask it for Python bindings and it'll make the .cxx file for you to compile.
22:54
<&Derakon>
Neat idea, kind of overkill in our case, but it's how we've handled this situation in the past and at the time I didn't know anything about ctypes.
22:58
<@gnolam>
McMartin: yes.
22:59
<@gnolam>
McMartin: it's the method I chose to communicate between The Beast and my code.
23:04
<&Derakon>
I think I'll declare victory for today on this project, and go think about Pyrrhus for a bit.
23:04 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving]
--- Log closed Wed Oct 23 00:00:01 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 22 Oct 2013< code.20131021.log - code.20131023.log >

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