| --- Log opened Thu Oct 10 00:00:10 2013 |
| 00:18 | <@Alek> | "Son, please bring me back a couple of diskettes when you go shopping." "What for? It's 2013!" "There's a huge virus at work, it infects all the flash drives but it's too big to fit on a diskette." |
| 00:19 | <&McMartin> | Man, I wonder if you can still buy 5.25" 161KB Commodore 1541 diskettes. |
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| 00:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Isn't the answer to that "son, bring me back a livecd"? |
| 00:22 | <@Alek> | not everyone knows of that. |
| 00:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Then they are fools, and we must pity them. |
| 00:23 | <@Alek> | also, maybe they specifically a: have to use the work system, b: can't make changes to it, and c: need to move files. which ARE small enough to fit on a diskette. |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | I haven't seen a machine with a diskette drive in something like ten years. |
| 00:26 | <@Alek> | trust me, they're still around. |
| 00:27 | <@Alek> | especially in semi-developed countries, which Russia kinda is. |
| 00:31 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:44 | < [R]> | I kind of miss the physical aspects of using floppies. |
| 00:45 | < [R]> | Probably because towers have only recently started having USB ports on the front. |
| 00:45 | < [R]> | Also floppies are easier to find. |
| 00:48 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 00:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Would amuse me if someone made a 3.5" floppy that contained a USB drive, and a floppy drive that contained the matching connectors. |
| 00:49 | <@TheWatcher> | 32GB floppy disk? Sure! |
| 00:50 | <@Alek> | you're aiming low. |
| 00:51 | <@Alek> | I think you could probably fit a decent SSD in a floppy. >_> |
| 00:57 | < [R]> | Likely to fail as zip drives did |
| 01:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Woo, backups finally set up |
| 01:08 | <@Alek> | well, weren't those also spinning disks, just like floppies, only a little more failure-prone, and with expensive drives needed, and any given drive couldn't even support all existing sizes of zip disk? |
| 01:09 | <@Alek> | iow, superfloppies by committee. |
| 01:10 | <@Alek> | in a good many cases, it was still cheaper per MB to buy floppies (in bulk). |
| 01:16 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 01:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Alek: yes, they were. |
| 01:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: what alex is proposing is a USB flash drive in floppy form factor, not spinning media. |
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| 01:24 | < [R]> | Right, but you'd still have to usurp DVDs and pendrives. |
| 01:24 | < [R]> | Which were ultimately the Zip Drive's fall. |
| 01:36 | < [R]> | Cause you're competing to get your ports installed everywhere, when they already have theirs. |
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| 02:35 | | * Alek shrugs. |
| 02:36 | <@Alek> | the idea was a novelty "floppy" drive, looking just like an original one, and possibly backwards-compatible. |
| 02:36 | <@Alek> | I can't be the only person who still has games on floppies he still wants to play. |
| 02:37 | | * Alek has Ultima V. boxed. that he never got to finish. |
| 02:39 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 02:45 | < [R]> | Have you tried using your floppies? |
| 02:45 | < [R]> | They should've expired by now. |
| 02:45 | < [R]> | (Not the 5 inch ones though) |
| 02:47 | <&McMartin> | Alek: It's on GOG >_> |
| 02:48 | <&McMartin> | (Ultima V is kind of pants though, 4 and 6 are both much better) |
| 03:07 | <&Derakon> | 5 is the one with the three anti-virtue supermonsters, right? |
| --- Log closed Thu Oct 10 03:33:29 2013 |
| --- Log opened Thu Oct 10 09:33:29 2013 |
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| 10:13 | <@Tarinaky> | I seem to have inadvertantly sat in on someone's meeting. I'm killing time between lecture's in one of the softa areas in a computer lab. |
| 10:13 | <@Tarinaky> | To my right someone is taking minutes. |
| 10:13 | <@Tarinaky> | I hope they don't think I'm in their group project group and try to do anything like ellicit comments from me... Even worse if they say something stupid and I want to comment. |
| 10:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Hopefully IRC can keep me sane. |
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| 11:26 | <@gnolam> | Tarinaky: chip in with insightful comments!" |
| 11:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Their meeting consisted mostly of them sitting in silence. |
| 11:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah to be a second year again. |
| 11:40 | <@Tarinaky> | They've yet to learn how to make a meeting grow to fill all available space. |
| 11:43 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: rofl btw |
| 11:43 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: http://slub.org/ |
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| 13:22 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm looking at an example of Python code, a small program, and I notice one of the path string literals begins with a ':' |
| 13:22 | <@Tarinaky> | As in ":/x/y.z" |
| 13:23 | <@Tarinaky> | I am unfamiliar with this notation. Anyone got any clues? |
| 13:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah, a friend suggests it's a Qt thing. |
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| 13:38 | | * ErikMesoy encounters some "usability" done the bureaucratic, ass-covering way |
| 13:38 | < ErikMesoy> | You know those small a/large a icons used some places for changing tet size (or selecting it, etc)? |
| 13:39 | < ErikMesoy> | I just hit one of those which pretends to be clickable (cursor becomes a hand), but isn't. However, mousing over it causes the message "TO CHANGE TEXT SIZE, HOLD THE CTRL KEY AND PRESS + TO ENLARGE OR - TO REDUCE" to appear across *half the bloody screen*. |
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| 13:40 | < ErikMesoy> | This is very easy to read, I'm sure, and makes it easier for people with poor eyesight to use the page. |
| 13:40 | < ErikMesoy> | But the popup message on mousover, combined with the control's lac of any function, just telling you to do it otherwise, doesn't seem all that usable. |
| 13:41 | | * ErikMesoy fixes typos. Text size. Lack of any function. Mouseover. |
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| 14:44 | < abudhabi> | Hum. The script does not work as planned, because the bot doesn't seem to understand that it should exit when *connecting* fails. |
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| 14:57 | <@Azash> | Shouldn't it attempt reconnecting in a bit? |
| 15:03 | < abudhabi> | Unfortunately reconnecting does not seem to be part of the functionality provided. |
| 15:05 | <@Azash> | ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ |
| 15:07 | < abudhabi> | Or, rather, you can detect that you've been disconnected and try to reconnect. |
| 15:07 | < abudhabi> | But this only works if you CAN reconnect. |
| 15:08 | < abudhabi> | If, say, the internet is down, reconnecting will fail, the 'disconnected' event will NOT fire, and the thing will NOT shut down. |
| 15:09 | < abudhabi> | It will also not try to reconnect again. Because it wasn't successful in connecting in the first place. |
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| 15:31 | <@Tarinaky> | abudhabi: Test for connectivity before you reloaunch the app? |
| 15:42 | < abudhabi> | Tarinaky: Not sure how. |
| 15:42 | < abudhabi> | I'm trying something else. |
| 15:42 | <@Tarinaky> | You already have a script that tests for connectivity. |
| 15:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Use a FSM that moves according to the state of that test. |
| 15:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Plus some built-in to sleep/block for a period of time. |
| 15:43 | <@Tarinaky> | You may not want to use bash for this. |
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| 15:44 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
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| 15:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | It shouldn't be hard to emit a virtual "disconnectd" event when a connection fails; xchat already does this. |
| 15:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Also, when I see FSM I think "flying spaghetti monster". |
| 15:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Finite State Machine. |
| 15:45 | <@celticminstrel> | I know. |
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| 16:02 | | * abudhabi thinks he's figured out how to make the bot not hurr-durr when not being able to connect. |
| 16:04 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 16:09 | <@froztbyte> | celticminstrel: yeah, me too |
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| 16:13 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh? How? |
| 16:15 | < abudhabi> | I've replaced ->start with its code, that is, a loop that continuously does ->do_one_loop. And also polls the connection for its {_connected} property thing. |
| 16:15 | < abudhabi> | I don't actually know how it will work out, since this mess is awful and undocumented. |
| 16:16 | < abudhabi> | Meanwhile, I'm beginning to think that this god-damned connection is unsuitable for IRC. |
| 16:43 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
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| 17:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Honestly... I think your bot is unsuitable for being a bot. |
| 17:28 | < abudhabi> | I think your comment is a non-sequitur. |
| 17:41 | <@Tarinaky> | It lacks the ability to handle disconnection and reconnection without the use of a watchdog. |
| 17:42 | <@Tarinaky> | my statement is sequiturous. |
| 17:44 | < abudhabi> | Look, if you want to rewrite the whole bot using the newer library, which is supposed to handle things better, be my guest. I may do this some day, but it is not this day. In the meantime, I'm trying to make this work. |
| 17:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Pfft, no need to get ansi. You're meaner to me about less :/ |
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| 18:56 | < ToxicFrog_> | Holy shit, I get to submit a patch to software written and maintained by ESR |
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| 18:58 | <@Tarinaky> | ESR? |
| 19:02 | <@Tamber> | Eric S. Raymond, I think. |
| 19:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes. Author of The Cathedral and the Bazaar, and one of the Nethack developers. |
| 19:13 | <@Azash> | Also TAOUP |
| 19:13 | <@Azash> | Which is a great book |
| 19:19 | <@Tarinaky> | TAOUP you too. |
| 19:24 | <&McMartin> | TF: I recent crossed paths with his git repo surgeon program. |
| 19:24 | <&McMartin> | It looks pretty slick, but we ultimately didn't need it for the UQM Git conversion |
| 19:25 | <&McMartin> | Also, here's a 40-minute talk about Clojure that defines the basics of music theory pretty well |
| 19:25 | <&McMartin> | Admittedly, I only learned two things from it, but this is because I was carefully trained as a youth in a strange mix of things that didn't really include being any good at any instruments |
| 19:25 | <&McMartin> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfsnlbd-4xQ |
| 19:29 | <@Azash> | Tarinaky: http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Addison-Wesley-Professional-Computng-Series/dp /0131429019 |
| 19:51 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Does anyone know of anything like Project Euler for GUI/Frameworks? Like... Here is a small problem, write some software that solves it? |
| 20:05 | < [R]> | Apparently ESR went into crazy town post-9/11 |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | Rationalwiki provides extensive citations. |
| 20:08 | <&McMartin> | That said, he was always a libertarian/anarchist sort; 9/11 merely provided the impetus to produce one of the failure modes associated with it |
| 20:22 | <@Namegduf> | ESR? |
| 20:22 | | * Tarinaky giggles at 'failure modes'. |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | Eric S. Raymond |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | See above |
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| 21:15 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm having trouble finding something in PySide. I have a basic form. How do I get access to the elements (such as buttons) after it's loaded so I can attach them to functions/slots in the code? |
| 21:19 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah, apparently I'm overthinking it, looking at the state of __dict__. |
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| 21:44 | <@Tarinaky> | ââRetarded Childâ architectural patternâ - A sub-system which canât report error and canât correctly handle it (for example, I once worked with a database connection which didnât have any way to access error code or description for a query, and didnât log it, but just returned general ERROR status to you, so you could only discern nature of error by setting breakpoint inside that connectionâs code, which was in another library) |
| 21:46 | < [R]> | Aww, poor baby, having to deal with DB libs that don't call exit() on error. |
| 21:47 | <@Tamber> | "not having any way of telling what error you got" != "not calling exit() on error" |
| 21:48 | < [R]> | Yes but it's true the other way around. |
| 21:50 | <@Tamber> | Oh, in that you *are* having to deal with that particular flavour of speshul? ...yeouch; that's... that's horrible. |
| 21:50 | < [R]> | Yes |
| 21:50 | < [R]> | Super fun when you load the lib into the REPL too |
| 22:36 | | * AnnoDomini puts his problem to Stack Overflow and potentially gets a potential solution. Will see how it works in practice! |
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| 22:56 | < RichyB> | [R], ow! How often do you need to hit it? I'd be thinking "pipe(), fork(), then hit the stupid DB library / wait4() child process". |
| 22:56 | < [R]> | It's got an obscure option to turn that off |
| 22:57 | < [R]> | But the exit() is default. |
| 22:58 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, so, I set up the automatic git updates. |
| 22:58 | < [R]> | Honestly though, it was half tempting to just make it use the DB's shell instead. |
| 22:58 | <~Vornicus> | And now I'm poking at my stuff and wondering how the hell these other guys manage to write code without exploding. |
| 23:27 | <@Tarinaky> | 1280 |
| 23:27 | <@Tarinaky> | I will need this number in a moment. |
| 23:34 | <~Vornicus> | 10100000000 |
| 23:36 | < AnnoDomini> | 4. |
| 23:38 | <~Vornicus> | 0x500; 0o2400 |
| 23:41 | < AnnoDomini> | What about in the number system of the alien ostriches with three fingers on one appendage and two on the other? |
| 23:49 | <@Tarinaky> | They will be executed by means of forcing them to learn emacs. |
| 23:49 | <~Vornicus> | 20110 |
| 23:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyway. I had a relatively big plain-text file that I wanted to store as efficiently as possible. So I compared a couple of readily available compression utilities and found gzip performed best. |
| 23:50 | <@Namegduf> | Huh. |
| 23:50 | <@Namegduf> | What was the second? |
| 23:50 | <~Vornicus> | What were teh numbers? Usually I expect bz2 to be the highest. |
| 23:50 | <~Vornicus> | or rather, the highest compression ratio |
| 23:51 | <@Tarinaky> | I hadn't tried bz2. Just gzip and compress. |
| 23:51 | <@Namegduf> | bz2 Ah. |
| 23:51 | <@Namegduf> | *Ah. |
| 23:51 | <@Tarinaky> | I've committed it to my git repo now. I can't change it without consuming more bits. |
| 23:51 | <@Namegduf> | Those two are basically the same algorithm with almost the same settings. |
| 23:51 | <@Tarinaky> | 'Oh well'. |
| 23:51 | <@celticminstrel> | What about 7z? |
| 23:52 | <@Namegduf> | LZMA? |
| 23:52 | <@Namegduf> | Sure. |
| 23:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Or rar? |
| 23:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Or zip? |
| 23:52 | <@Namegduf> | rar and 7z themselves are annoying as hell proprietary archive formats, but 7z uses lzma |
| 23:52 | <@celticminstrel> | I haven't ever found 7z annoying. |
| 23:52 | <@celticminstrel> | rar though, yes. |
| 23:52 | <@Namegduf> | That's probably because you have 7zip installed. |
| 23:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Especially when it's pointlessly passworded. |
| 23:52 | <@Namegduf> | It would be highly annoying for me, because I don't. |
| 23:53 | <@celticminstrel> | And no, I don't have 7z installed. |
| 23:53 | <@celticminstrel> | I can't, since it's only for Windows. |
| 23:53 | <@Tarinaky> | In future I will consult this room before making any poorly thought out decisions. |
| 23:53 | <@celticminstrel> | ^7zip |
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| 23:53 | <@Namegduf> | Oh, on Linux? |
| 23:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Mac. |
| 23:53 | <@Namegduf> | What is there which deals with 7z files on a Mac? |
| 23:54 | <@Namegduf> | Rar has unrar. |
| 23:54 | | AnnoDomini [abudhabi@Nightstar-dee370fe.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 23:54 | <@Namegduf> | "zip" is not a compression format. |
| 23:54 | <@Namegduf> | It's either compress or gzip, IIRC, plus an archive format. |
| 23:55 | <@Namegduf> | It cannot do better than anything else using either of those two. |
| 23:56 | <~Vornicus> | there is a 7zip drag&drop for mac |
| 23:56 | <@Namegduf> | Or, more accurately, not a distinct compression format. |
| 23:56 | <~Vornicus> | 7zX |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: er? there's at least two implementations of 7-zip for linux, p7zip and 7za |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | And if you have either one installed fileroller will open them too |
| 23:57 | | * ToxicFrog upreads |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...oh dear |
| 23:57 | <@celticminstrel> | I know zip is an archive format, but it has compression implied in it. |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: you committed compressed files to git? |
| 23:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Why? |
| 23:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | The repo contents are already stored compressed! |
| 23:58 | <@Namegduf> | celticminstrel: Yes, but he said he'd already experimented with compress and gzip. |
| 23:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh. |
| 23:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | By compressing them yourself, you've made it impossible for it to apply delta compression, too |
| 23:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Well. I'm an idiot. |
| 23:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or give you meaningful diffs |
| 23:58 | <@Namegduf> | celticminstrel: Adding a *third slight variation of the same compression algorithm* isn't going to get you anything. |
| 23:59 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: Would you like to facepalm on my behalf? |
| 23:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I didn't know it was the same algorithm. :P |
| --- Log closed Fri Oct 11 00:00:31 2013 |