code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 08 Oct 2013< code.20131007.log - code.20131009.log >
--- Log opened Tue Oct 08 00:00:39 2013
01:25
<&McMartin>
"When you stare into the void, the void stares also; but if you *cast* into the void, you get a type conversion error."
01:25 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
01:27 * TheWatcher[zZzZ] will need to add that to his email sig file
01:33 * McMartin is catching up on the Laundry novellas.
01:33
<&McMartin>
(That one is a quote from "Overtime")
01:37
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: that just turns up threads discussing MSSQL stuff?
01:43 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
02:00
< [R]>
http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/8159.aspx?PageIndex=1
02:00
< [R]>
http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/7593/141396.aspx#141396
02:08
< [R]>
Second one is more informative
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02:59
<&ToxicFrog>
There has got to be a better way to make this aquaria mod.
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04:15 * Derakon reads up.
04:15
<&Derakon>
TF: what Aquaria mod?
04:20
<&ToxicFrog>
I'm trying to make enemies less aggressive.
04:20
<&ToxicFrog>
The problem is programatically determining what an enemy is.
04:23
<&Derakon>
So, make the game even more about exploration and even less about combat?
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04:26
<&Derakon>
How much information do you have on enemies?
04:26
<&Derakon>
Anything that has a damaging hitbox or creates any kind of projectile is probably an enemy.
04:27
<&Derakon>
Well, or damaging terrain, I guess.
04:36
<&ToxicFrog>
Or a projectile in its own right.
04:38
<&ToxicFrog>
I have lots of information, the problem is that there's ~500 entity types and it's really hard to discriminate.
04:39
<&Derakon>
Right, I guess my question should have been "how structured is the information", and it sounds like the answer is "not very".
04:39
<&ToxicFrog>
Enemies have the ET_ENEMY type, but so do projectiles, damaging terrain, and some non-enemy scenery creatures that exhibit enemy-like movement.
04:39
<&ToxicFrog>
Likewise, there's lots of things with damage hitboxes that aren't technically enemies.
04:40
<&ToxicFrog>
And "aggression" isn't really a concept in the game, I'm implementing it by overriding update() and a few other methods.
04:40
<&ToxicFrog>
Which can have tragic consequences on non-enemy entities.
04:40
<&Derakon>
Changing the frequency with which decisions are made by the enemies, I'm guessing?
04:40
<&ToxicFrog>
(Aquaria's code is really disorganized)
04:40
<&Derakon>
And yeah, you wouldn't want e.g. the ridable fish dude to just kind of sit there.
04:40
<&ToxicFrog>
No, forcing them into a passive state on spawn and only turning on their targeting routines when Naija gets within one screen or attacks them.
04:41
<&Derakon>
Hm, what's the desired result?
04:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Being able to pick and choose your battles.
04:41
<&Derakon>
That sounds like it wouldn't be harmful to apply to non-enemies.
04:41
<&ToxicFrog>
xEr
04:41
<&ToxicFrog>
"passive" here means "does not move or respond to most event triggers or internal state transitions"
04:42
<&ToxicFrog>
Applying this to any sort of scripting trigger will straight up break the game, and background fish and whatnot will behave oddly.
04:42
<&ToxicFrog>
(also, bosses need special handling)
04:42
<&Derakon>
You can't tell scripting triggers apart from enemies?
04:43
<&ToxicFrog>
I'm not confident I can, no. Have you looked at the code?
04:43
<&Derakon>
No, I haven't.
04:43
<&ToxicFrog>
It's kind of not good~
04:43
<&Derakon>
But I accept it's not as clean as you'd like it to be.
04:43
<&Derakon>
That's sadly kind of expected of games.
04:43
<&ToxicFrog>
Even by game standards.
04:44
<&Derakon>
Ouch.
04:44
<&ToxicFrog>
Lots and lots of lots of copy-paste. Multiple copies of some entities, only one of which is loaded. No trust in version control; huge swathes of code are commented out, or you'll get two or three versions of the same line with all but one commented.
04:44
<&ToxicFrog>
At least one file with an "is this unused?" comment and then a later "yep it's unused" comment (but the file still exists)
04:45
<&Derakon>
Yie.
04:45
<&ToxicFrog>
A bunch of stuff hinting at a different game - NPCs with dialogue trees and whatnot.
04:45
<&ToxicFrog>
Also, all entities have fields like "money" that are, AFAICT, never actually used for anything.
04:45
<&ToxicFrog>
Hard to tell because the actual entity definition is C-side.
04:45
<&ToxicFrog>
And now, th esleep.
04:45
<&Derakon>
Night.
04:45
<&Derakon>
And good luck.
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12:10 * Vornicus finally gets around to writing a cron job that will commit and push the cavemen's work so he can do things the right way
12:10 * Vornicus ... can't fucking remember how to use cron
12:14
<@Tamber>
My work-flow when working with cron: crontab -e ÔŽ man 5 crontab ÔŽ crontab -e ÔŽ ; aaaaargh
12:14
<~Vornicus>
Yeup
12:15
<@Tamber>
And even then, I screw it up.
12:21
<@froztbyte>
it's easy
12:22
<@froztbyte>
`crontab -e` = no user field, wondering why the fuck they put the time fields in that order, regret not writing a wrapper script for PATH and arg parsing-y shit
12:22
<@froztbyte>
straight file somewhere in /etc/cron* = user field, wondering why the fuck they put the time fields in that order, regret not writing a wrapper script for PATH and arg parsing-y shit
12:23
<@Tamber>
xD
12:26
<@froztbyte>
err, /etc/cron.*
12:27
<@froztbyte>
(you can't have a file in /etc/crontab, just another line)
12:27
<@froztbyte>
(but the rule still counts there, user field)
12:33
<@gnolam>
http://nullroute.eu.org/mirrors/analogliterals/analogliterals.xhtml
12:34
<@froztbyte>
hahaha
12:57
< simon_>
gnolam, yeah, Dunning-Kruger to the max!
12:58
< simon_>
gnolam, it has two consequences: some good students end up in less-capable classes, which is not a problem at all, because they fare well. and some bad students end up in very good classes, which is bad.
12:58
<@gnolam>
Having suffered the former, I consider it a way worse problem than the latter. :P
12:59
<~Vornicus>
...What the entire drugs
13:04
< ErikMesoy>
Good drugs.
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13:28
< simon_>
gnolam, well, I'm a TA, so I suffer the latter. ;-)
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14:45
<@Azash>
15:44 <+matx> <p style="font-weight:bold;"><b>
14:47
<@gnolam>
?
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15:09
< ErikMesoy>
I saw "Passw0rd" at a thing at my workplace today. This is a major international company I'm consulting for. :p
15:10
< RichyB>
In ./src/tests/example_data.json { 'username': 'user', 'password': 'Passw0rd' }, right?
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15:18
<@froztbyte>
ErikMesoy: I'm not surprised. in the least.
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15:55
<&ToxicFrog>
My workflow with cron: sudo nano /etc/cron.daily/foo
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18:08
< AnnoDomini>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24232896
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21:56 * McMartin looks at the Ubuntu support schedule
21:56
<&McMartin>
12.04: supported through Apr 2017
21:56
<&McMartin>
12.10: supported through Apr 2014
21:56
<&McMartin>
13.04: supported through Jan 2014
21:56
<&McMartin>
("The next release will end support before its own launch")
21:56
<@Tamber>
*snrk*
21:58
< ErikMesoy>
What.
21:58
< AnnoDomini>
What.
21:59
<&McMartin>
OK, so, 12.04 was LTS, which is why it's way later
21:59
<&McMartin>
Ubuntu's been shifting towards "everything that isn't LTS is set out to sea on a dwindling ice floe as soon as possible" model
21:59
<@Tamber>
And 13.04 is a 0TS? :p
21:59
<&McMartin>
And they're transitioning that.
21:59
<@Tarinaky>
Isn't there a Physicist who predicted his own death by making similar remarks about the amount of time he slept each night?
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22:09
<@Reiv>
LTS?
22:09
<@Tarinaky>
Long-term support.
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22:14
<&ToxicFrog>
And this is why I run an RR distro on orias~
22:15 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
22:25
< simon_>
it's funny how Ubuntu's idea of "Long-term support" still means that older versions of Ubuntu are discarded. neither Debian nor Arch neglects their older versions like that, huh.
22:26
<&McMartin>
Debian doesn't release very often either.
22:26
<&McMartin>
If every release is a permanently maintained fork you need exponentially increasing QA resources.
22:26
< simon_>
right.
22:26
< simon_>
I suppose those two distros idea of support varies a little, too.
22:26
<@Namegduf>
Huh?
22:27
<@Namegduf>
Debian drops support for stables.
22:27
< simon_>
it does? my mistake.
22:27
<@Namegduf>
There's stable, and there's oldstable, and then you need to upgrade.
22:27 * simon_ has been an Arch fanboy for too long, and only knows of deprecation through "If you've forgotten to sync your system for so long that automatic syncing doesn't work, you're off the wagon."
22:27
<&McMartin>
That sounds like it largely tracks how LTS works in Ubuntu, then; LTS goes out of support a bit after two more LTSes have been released.
22:27
<@Namegduf>
"The security team tries to support a stable distribution for about one year after the next stable distribution has been released, except when another stable distribution is released within this year. It is not possible to support three distributions; supporting two simultaneously is already difficult enough"
22:28
<@Namegduf>
I don't think Arch counts, seeing as it avoids deprecating releases through not having them.
22:28
< simon_>
;-)
22:28
<@Namegduf>
If you run Debian unstable, which is roughly equivalent, you never have 'deprecation' either.
22:29
<@Namegduf>
(Only roughly equivalent; Debian Unstable still has some QA, held back that GNOME version which broke everything until everything else was updated to work with it, etc)
22:31
< simon_>
so I was at a lecture today and the lecturer came over to me and said he liked my idea of making a workshop on monads to prepare students in the "Advanced Programming" course and wanted to participate as a course assistant, and asked if I was looking for a thesis supervisor, because he knew someone who would be interested. :D
22:31
< simon_>
s/course assistant/workshop assistant/
22:50
< [R]>
<simon_> it's funny how Ubuntu's idea of "Long-term support" still means that older versions of Ubuntu are discarded. neither Debian nor Arch neglects their older versions like that, huh. <-- Arch does regularly.
22:50
< [R]>
All glibc are bound to a kernel version, all programs need a minimum glibc.
22:51
< [R]>
Guess what happens if you try and update something while having an old kernel? Program bitches about glibc.
22:51
< [R]>
Guess what happens when you update glibc? Everything breaks because the kernel is too old.
22:52
< [R]>
Guess what happens when you do an "update all"? glibc gets mixed in an everything breaks because the kernel's install scripts fail because the kernel is too old.
22:53
<@Tarinaky>
Arch's pacman installed Kernel and glibc updates fine for me when I used it.
22:53
< [R]>
The new Arch devs can fuck themselves with anal razors.
22:54
< [R]>
Tarinaky: this would be around 2008ish?
22:54
<@Tarinaky>
2008-ish to 2011-ish.
22:55
< [R]>
Yeah, you left about when the glibc needs kernel versions thing came in.
23:01
<@Tarinaky>
I seem to recall every Kernel update having a new glibc come out at the same time.
23:01
< [R]>
Before they still had them, just they were for really old kernels.
23:01
< [R]>
Now the window is stupid small
23:02
<@Tarinaky>
Oh. Well that's silly.
23:02
< [R]>
Aye
23:02
< [R]>
Maintaining ~10 Arch machines was a massive PITA at that point
23:03
< [R]>
Though that's not the only bullshit that caused me to leave.
23:04
< [R]>
(Fucking up pacman twice: -r no longer works... at all. OpenSSL being a requirement is retarded... especially the reason... and /especially/ the fact they don't do runtime fall-back.)
23:04
< [R]>
(Reason: 15% efficiency upgrade to MD5 implementation)
23:07
< simon_>
[R], ugh. I'd probably never maintain Arch on a server farm!
23:07
< simon_>
[R], I'd probably go with Debian or FreeBSD.
23:08
< simon_>
but then that's also because a favorable feature of a server Linux is that I can leave it alone for 6 months without updating.
23:08
<@Tamber>
And still have it work properly when you *do* come to update?
23:08
< simon_>
two months without upgrading in Arch is... well... it happens too often. :|
23:09
< simon_>
s/upgrading/updating/
23:09
< [R]>
Debian does retarded things with packages, so anything based on that is a no-go. I find *BSDs to be jarring since random non-alphanumeric keys just don't work with them.
23:09
< simon_>
Tamber, yeah, the update process should preferrably not be much longer than the time it takes to download a modest (< 1GB) set of packages.
23:10
< simon_>
[R], keys as in passwords?
23:10
< [R]>
It'd be nice if the BSDs had freaking guides to fixing the keys.
23:10
< [R]>
Keys as in arrows, home, end, backspace
23:10
< simon_>
oh, keys as in crypto keys
23:10
< simon_>
oh!!! :)
23:10
< simon_>
tbh, I never actually sit in front of a server with a keyboard any more.
23:10
< [R]>
Nah, crypto works right
23:10
< [R]>
I never use their keyboards
23:11
< [R]>
Alwas through SSH
23:11
< simon_>
yeah, FreeBSD's default terminal settings leave things to be desired for.
23:11
< [R]>
Said keys never work right.
23:11
< simon_>
s/(?<=terminal)/virtual /
23:11
< simon_>
I think, actually, its real terminal works much better.
23:11
< [R]>
I suspect that too
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23:55
< RichyB>
There really is no perfect Unix. Ah well.
23:56
< RichyB>
[R], I'm using CentOS on as many machines as I can fit it on in work for a couple of reasons.
23:56
< RichyB>
Chief amongst them the fact that, on my personal hobby box, I've had "0 0 * * * sleep $RANDOM; yum update -y && shutdown -r now" in root's crontab for a while now with no issues.
23:57
< RichyB>
I'd prolly be using Debian if not for the habitual tendency to write "cute" on-install scripts into packages that really don't need them.
23:58
< RichyB>
oh and the habit of "apt-get install whateverd" simultaneously unpacking /sbin/whateverd, doing "service whateverd start" and punching a hole in the firewall, all without giving me any chance to configure whatever the thing is first.
--- Log closed Wed Oct 09 00:00:54 2013
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