| --- Log opened Mon Sep 30 00:00:39 2013 |
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| 03:29 | < Harlow> | Can some one tell me what might cause a Mach-o linker error? is it just the files can't be found? |
| 03:36 | < Vorntastic> | There are huge numbers of errors a linker can come up with. |
| 03:37 | < Vorntastic> | You'd have to figure out which one it is (yay, logs) and then see why that one would come up. |
| 03:40 | < Harlow> | what would "Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64:" mean to look for? |
| 04:01 | < Vorntastic> | That generally means there is no .o file (or similar) that has exported that symbol. |
| 04:02 | < Vorntastic> | This can happen for many reasons; I can't name them all, but missing files, the compiler not exporting that symbol for whatever reason (including conditional preprocessor commands), or the compiler's build targets not including x86-64. |
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| 04:03 | < Harlow> | thanks |
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| 04:04 | <~Vornicus> | no problem |
| 04:04 | <@Reiv> | I d oso love #code |
| 04:04 | <~Vornicus> | what'd I do now? |
| 04:05 | <@Reiv> | IT support, amusing anecdotes, programming how-to, and technical debates all in one~ |
| 04:06 | < Harlow> | Reiv i know right? |
| 04:06 | < Harlow> | people here are brilliant |
| 04:07 | <@Azash> | Of course, sometimes you can't help but feel you're in way over your head |
| 04:10 | < Harlow> | Sometimes you are in way over your head. Like I am right now. For some reason updating Xcode broke quite a bit of stuff when i try and compile. oh well. Time to mess with it for hours only for it to be one simple mistake. |
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| 04:58 | < Harlow> | Well Thanks again Vornicus i was able to resolve the problem. The frameworks some how are not in the list of things to be compiled along side the program. |
| 04:59 | <~Vornicus> | Hooray! |
| 05:04 | < Harlow> | Total time ~ 1hr 40min to resolve the problem. Coding can be a love hate relationship sometimes. |
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| 11:49 | < AnnoDomini> | Does anyone perhaps have the link to the programming aptitude test (the one made by Dehnadi and Bornat)? |
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| 12:08 | <@Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: It's something like a = 10; b = 3; a = b; what is a? What is b? Why? |
| 12:09 | <~Vornicus> | Tarinaky: I think he was looking for the actual test. |
| 12:09 | <@himi> | . . . is that some kind of trick question? |
| 12:10 | <~Vornicus> | himi: no, and remember that you've been a programmer for a very long time. |
| 12:11 | <@himi> | Now I'm wondering how that can be misunderstood |
| 12:11 | <~Vornicus> | The question the testers are asking is "what model does the novice student have of the meaning of these statements?" and it turns out they've come up with a full /11/ models |
| 12:11 | <@himi> | Wow |
| 12:12 | <@himi> | I have to admit, when I was trying to spot the trick I was thinking "what language is this, and how does it handle data storage and access and so forth" |
| 12:12 | <~Vornicus> | http://www.ppig.org/papers/18th-dehnadi.pdf here's a paper on it. Pages 29 and 30 (pages 8 and 9 of the actual pdf) list the models they discovered. |
| 12:13 | <~Vornicus> | They found that, if the student has a consistent if not necessarily correct model, they'll do reasonably well in the course; if not, they'll do badly. |
| 12:14 | | * himi nods |
| 12:15 | <~Vornicus> | Unfortunately the test isn't in the paper. |
| 12:17 | < AnnoDomini> | Found it! |
| 12:17 | <~Vornicus> | Yay! Link! |
| 12:18 | < AnnoDomini> | http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/ |
| 12:18 | < AnnoDomini> | It's under "Test's script". |
| 12:24 | <~Vornicus> | woot |
| 12:24 | <~Vornicus> | ...they used a folder icon for the check boxes... |
| 12:34 | <@himi> | I have to say, although I can't be sure I'm pretty confident I'd have gotten those right even before I did any programming |
| 12:35 | <@himi> | That's probably because I did plenty of algebra, though |
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| 14:24 | | * AnnoDomini applies this test to his sister, who claims to have had some sort of php introduction in her studies. |
| 14:25 | <~Vornicus> | How'd she do? |
| 14:26 | < AnnoDomini> | For questions 1-6, she gave utterly puzzling multiple answers each. For questions 7-12, she apparently figured out a system that made sense to her and applied that for each of these. |
| 14:28 | < AnnoDomini> | Her system differed from correctness only in that it assumed parallel/isolated assignments. |
| 14:28 | <~Vornicus> | so a=1 b=2 a=b b=a gives a=2, b=1? |
| 14:28 | < AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
| 14:30 | < RichyB> | Good sign. |
| 14:31 | < AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
| 14:31 | <@Tarinaky> | How do you get marked if you answer "error. hail the functional ubermensch"? |
| 14:31 | < AnnoDomini> | That's the third group, accounting for 8% of takers in the study. |
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| 14:40 | <@Tarinaky> | himi: I was in a lecture and so missed your question but there is no correct answer, the trick is we only care about the answer to 'why'. |
| 14:45 | | * ErikMesoy remembers that! :D |
| 14:46 | | * TheWatcher eyes |
| 14:46 | | * ErikMesoy liked the summary of "Education can remedy ignorance, but not sloppy thinking". |
| 14:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I've had some students like that >.< |
| 14:47 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm convinced that at least one of them, if faced with "a = 10; b = 3; a = b; what is a? what is b?" would answer with "a is aardvark, b is 74.3" |
| 14:48 | < ErikMesoy> | Also, the comment section wherever the two-humps test is posted tends to demonstrate the same pattern. The test is used to measure CONSISTENCY; if students can produce a model or rule of some sort that they use to answer isomorphic questions in the same way. |
| 14:48 | < ErikMesoy> | There are inevitably lots of commenters going "but newbies won't be able to get this correct! wargle wargle wargle teach them how the language works before you test!" |
| 14:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Two-humps? |
| 14:55 | <@Tarinaky> | It's difficult to post questions to students that either don't have a correct answer or which have a large number of correct answers. |
| 14:55 | < ErikMesoy> | Tarinaky: "bimodal distribution" |
| 14:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Students, are broken by the education system, to answer questions with unique and easily assessed answers. |
| 14:56 | < ErikMesoy> | Aka two humps on a rough graph of skill. |
| 14:57 | < ErikMesoy> | Tarinaky: The neat trick here is that there are no correct answers per se. |
| 14:58 | < ErikMesoy> | Say question 1 is "a = 10; b = 3; a = b; what is a? what is b?" as Watcher said, and later question 5 asks "x = 12; y = 10; x = y; what is x? what is y?" |
| 14:58 | <@Tarinaky> | I am aware. |
| 14:58 | <@Tarinaky> | But when you pose it to a student, as a question, they will see several correct/valid answers and panic. |
| 14:58 | < AnnoDomini> | "Sloppy thinking". |
| 14:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Because if the answer is not unique they're doing someting wrong... according to their logic. |
| 14:59 | < ErikMesoy> | But I'll spell it out anyway for the peanut gallery. If you answer "3,10" to Q1 and "10,12" to Q5, this is consistent. |
| 14:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah, the peanut gallery isn't here. |
| 14:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Everyone's seen it before. I'm just remarking that 'trick questions' make 'good' students explode. |
| 15:00 | < Xon> | 'trick questions' are often really stupid |
| 15:01 | < Xon> | and for software, you don't give a shit if it has consistant internal logic but matches whatever retarded spec you are working against |
| 15:01 | < AnnoDomini> | How is this relevant? |
| 15:04 | < Xon> | answering an isomorphic question requires internal consistant in the questions |
| 15:05 | < Xon> | (which most of the time is handled by using the same question with numbers/symbols slightly tweaked) |
| 15:06 | < AnnoDomini> | And? |
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| 21:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | I am amused: https://github.com/rowanmanning/joblint |
| 21:45 | <@Tamber> | Hee |
| 21:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | I should run my current job description through it~ |
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| --- Log closed Tue Oct 01 00:00:54 2013 |