code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 24 Sep 2013< code.20130923.log - code.20130925.log >
--- Log opened Tue Sep 24 00:00:08 2013
00:00
< Syka>
you don't have to run chromeos
00:00
< Syka>
flick dev switch, boot into uefi
00:00
< Syka>
install whatever you want
00:01 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
00:01
<@froztbyte>
McMartin: I don't much see the point is the entire effort either
00:01
<@froztbyte>
Of*
00:01
< Syka>
linus torvalds uses one mainly for the screen res
00:01
<@froztbyte>
That's fine
00:02
< Syka>
you can fit a lot of emails in 10pt font
00:02
<@froztbyte>
But I don't care about that
00:02 * Syka gives froztbyte some caremad
00:02
<@froztbyte>
Res causes detail loss in perception if the observable surface is too tiny
00:03
<@froztbyte>
(cf graphs)
00:03
< Syka>
i think the only thing he's complained about is 'jesus christ dpi scaling a shit'
00:03 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
00:03
<@froztbyte>
Yeah there's that too
00:03
<@froztbyte>
I don't feel like having that fun
00:03
< Syka>
which must mean that its pretty okay in other respects
00:03
<@froztbyte>
Already have enough elsewhere
00:03
< Syka>
froztbyte: run it at 95 dpi anyway
00:03
< Syka>
:D
00:04 * Syka puts froztbyte on the express train to eye strain
00:05
< Syka>
anyway, i cant wait for the gabebox
00:06
< Syka>
gabecube, rather
00:06
<@Reiv>
Steambox is a good thing.
00:06
<@Reiv>
If nothing else, with any luck it'll encourage Corporate Drones to not ignore PC so horribly for the next few years.
00:08
< Syka>
nvidia seem to be trumpeting the 'haha console users, your shit is already outdated at the announcements'
00:08
< Syka>
they also seem to have unfucked their prop drivers quite a bit
00:08
< Syka>
its a nvidia steam conspiracy
00:08
< Syka>
to sell us all games!!!1!1
00:09
< Syka>
what a henious thing to do
00:09
<@Reiv>
This would be because ATI are the ones making the next generation of consoles, yes?
00:10
<&McMartin>
omzg
00:12 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
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00:27
< Syka>
reiv: yep
00:28
< Syka>
the ps4 and xbone are jokes right now
00:28
< Syka>
its a shitty amd apu with shitty clocks and okay ram
00:28
<@Reiv>
Syka: You seem a person distinctly prone to hyperbole.
00:29
< Syka>
Reiv: naaaah~
00:29 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
00:29
<@Reiv>
Consoles are never cutting edge hardware. The hardware they're getting is considerably ahead of what the previous boxes could run; I am pleased at the improvements in fidelity and capability that will result accordingly.
00:29 mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ
00:29
< Syka>
bzzt
00:29 * Syka buzzer
00:30
< Syka>
on release, the PS3 was more powerful than PCs of its day
00:30
< Syka>
if only in raw power
00:30
< Syka>
the Cell is a different story
00:30
<@Reiv>
That they are all fundamentally PCs is also an inherently good thing. The less money spent fiddling with ports the more money spent on the game itself; and the less effort spent on the technical portion of porting, the more can be directed to finetuning to the platform in question.
00:31
< Syka>
know what makes the cost of porting even less?
00:31
< Syka>
not porting to consoles!~
00:32
< Syka>
although right now it is better
00:32
< Syka>
because they target opengl on the ps4 and directx on the xbone
00:32
< Syka>
both of which are required for a pc/mac/linux version
00:33 * Reiv patpat Syka on the head, wanders off to conversations elsewhere.
00:33
< Syka>
have fun with your xbone :D
00:34
<@Reiv>
... why?
00:34
<@Reiv>
I use PC.
00:35
< Syka>
and obviously not anything with a half-assed buggy PC port :p
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00:39
<@Reiv>
Syka: How old are you?
00:41
< Syka>
old enough to vote! :D
00:43
<@Reiv>
In which countries? ¬¬
00:43
< Syka>
besides, the new consoles aren't inherently PCs, since the xbone is a stripped down W8 (apparently) and the PS4 is some form of BSD (i think)
00:44
<&McMartin>
PS3/4 is "some form of BSD" roughly the same way OS X is
00:44
< Syka>
they're still going to be a pain to port :p
00:45
< Syka>
yeah, ps4 orbis is some custom thing
00:45
<&McMartin>
The real trick is the guys writing to XBLA did it using C# and XNA.
00:45
<&McMartin>
Porting *that* to MonoGame is a much simpler task
00:45
<&McMartin>
So stuff like Bastion and SpaceChem makes the jump pretty easily.
00:45
< Syka>
XNA is dead now, isn't it?
00:46
< Syka>
or it wasnt supported in the new .net, or something
00:46
< Syka>
which if it is, thats a shame
00:48
< RichyB>
froztbyte, huh. I would normally use xz rather than 7z because (AIUI they're (almost?) exactly the same algorithm) and (there's an 'xz' program that's either on or available for every unix which mimics gz and bz2's friendly command-line parsing, whereas p7zip is a bit of a pain)
00:49
< RichyB>
Syka, you don't need to write a DirectX version of any given videogame in order to target Windows; all three currently-competitive GPU vendors each ship an OpenGL implementation on Windows anyway.
00:50
< Syka>
RichyB: but is it a good opengl implementation?
00:50
< Syka>
i remember valve sending a whole heap of stuff to nvidia about it during the linux port
00:51
< RichyB>
AIUI yes.
00:51
<&McMartin>
Syka: Dunno offhand (re: XNA), but I'd be very surprised if they abandoned their gamewriting framework.
00:52
< RichyB>
McMartin, did you know that Bastion has a Google "Native Client" port?
00:52
< Syka>
McMartin: they also ditched Windows Presentation Foundation, so
00:53
< Syka>
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-to-retire-xna-tools-no-plans-to-abandon-dir ectx
00:53
< RichyB>
That makes me scratch my head a lot.
00:53
< Syka>
microsoft don't care about gaming on windows anymore
00:53
< Syka>
like, legitimately don't care
00:53
< RichyB>
Remember how MS's thing always used to be selling a (bunch of) platform(s) that ISVs would build and sell applications on?
00:54
< Syka>
Games for Windows has been shitcanned, XNA is dead, Windows 8 is a tool for race to the bottom hardware
00:54
< RichyB>
When and why the fuck did MS switch into this new mode of just churning out and abandoning new supposedly-ecosystem-defining APIs on such short schedules?
00:55
< Syka>
RichyB: when they realised they made more money selling CoD to kids
00:55
<&McMartin>
GfWL was always a steaming pile compared to its competitors.
00:55
< RichyB>
You can track *Ubuntu* releases now and reasonably expect longer support lifetimes than MS is handing out
00:55
<&McMartin>
Though it was apparently very easy to use.
00:56
< RichyB>
Stability isn't even on their goal list!
00:56
< Syka>
gfwl was never easy to use
00:56
<&McMartin>
Oh hey, Salacious Salamander or whatever is coming out at some point.
00:56
<&McMartin>
Syka: I meant as a developer
00:56
< RichyB>
McMartin, if I had worked on GfWL, I would tell anyone who asked about it that I was unemployed or working in a circus biting the heads off chickens instead during that time.
00:56
< Syka>
oh probably
00:56
<&McMartin>
It was the platform of choice for "oh shit I need to have multiplayer support in my half-assed PC port"
00:57
< RichyB>
GfWL is the most embarrassing pile of trash that I have ever seen come out of Redmond, and that's saying a lot.
00:57
< RichyB>
Wait, that's actually overly harsh.
00:57
< Syka>
i have a video of logging on to Red Faction
00:57
< Syka>
it took about a minute of GFWL fucking itself
00:57
<&McMartin>
I'd have to think about that
00:57
< Syka>
and then it would give up and sign in offline
00:57
< RichyB>
I have yet to see anything else come out of Redmond that's even a tenth as shit-tastic as GfWL
00:57
< RichyB>
What were they fucking thinking!?
00:58 * Reiv sets mode: -hyperbole
00:58
<@Reiv>
¬¬
00:58
< Syka>
RichyB: Microsoft SQL Express
00:58
< Syka>
:D
00:58
< Syka>
where the limitation is the filesize!
00:58
< Syka>
and vendors do not know how to make small databases!
00:58
< RichyB>
Eh, file-size limits make perfect sense.
00:58
< Syka>
...and the upgrade path is 90% of the time 'go buy Oracle'
00:59
< Syka>
I shit you not, this platform had two databases
00:59
< Syka>
MSSQL Express, or Oracle
00:59
< RichyB>
Reiv, really? Show me anything that competes?
00:59
<@Reiv>
I would have plenty of sympathy for the very intelligent programmers behind GFWL
00:59
< Syka>
no MSSQL Server
00:59
< Syka>
Reiv: I do not think that the GFWL developers were the smartest tools in the shed
00:59
< RichyB>
Syka, why not MSSQL Server?
00:59
< Syka>
RichyB: I have no idea :(
01:00
< Syka>
RichyB: it was a shitty niche software product that we ended up paying $lots for
01:00
<&McMartin>
I'm going to have to say that GfWL is only as bad as it is because it is in your way more.
01:00
< Syka>
and had to fly a guy from the USA to get training
01:00
<&McMartin>
Windows ME, for instance, you probably managed to ignore
01:00
< Syka>
because the person who bought the system, and was trained on it, left a month later
01:01
<&McMartin>
I'm not willing to state as immediately obvious that WinMe wasn't worse than GfWL.
01:01
< RichyB>
McMartin, I used a Windows ME computer once for as much as two straight hours and it neither blue-screened nor asked me to log in to anything nor wasted my time wanking to itself instead of letting me launch applications.
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01:03
< RichyB>
For comparison though, I haven't yet tried using Microsoft Bob.
01:06
< RichyB>
Derakon, is there any particular reason why pyrel doesn't seem to have a setup.py?
01:06
<&Derakon>
RichyB: hang on, I'll be back in 30-45 minutes.
01:06
<&Derakon>
But short version: fuck if I know how to set up Python packages~
01:06 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
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01:08
< RichyB>
Derakon[AFK], fair enough. :)
01:20 * ToxicFrog resyncs
01:21
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: git uses content-addressed storage, so while it is famously bad at large binaries, if you have *the same* large binaries all over the place they only get stored once.
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01:21
<&ToxicFrog>
Also, the delta algorithm normally cuts off for files above a certain size to avoid ballooning memory requirements, but this can be tuned if you find you have large binaries that change, but only slightly.
01:22
<&McMartin>
The material retained is of the former variety.
01:23
<&McMartin>
It is 12 hours of oggs.
01:23
<&McMartin>
However, the other 800MB was the 12 hours of AIFFs that the oggs replaced.
01:23
<&McMartin>
(Ladies and gentlemen, early CD-ROM software)
01:24
<@Reiv>
McMartin: ... run that past me again
01:24
<&ToxicFrog>
SteamOS and the Steam client are getting local game streaming?
01:24
<&ToxicFrog>
yessssssssssssssssss
01:24
<&ToxicFrog>
I have wanted this for ages
01:24
<&McMartin>
Reiv: Unlike, say, SVN, Git has you download the entire history of the project.
01:25
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: oh yes, and you can use git filter-branch (among other things) to retroactively remove things from the history.
01:25
<&McMartin>
This is problematic for UQM, where "the entire history" includes nearly 700 megabytes of uncompressed digital audio that is the soudntrack and the voiceovers.
01:25
<&McMartin>
ToxicFrog: Turns out we did that during the CVS->SVN transition.
01:25
<&ToxicFrog>
Which is handy for "oh shit, someone checked in a gigabyte of raw art assets three years ago and no-one noticed until now"
01:25
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: I still want Steam to have scheduled downloading.
01:26
<@Reiv>
So you can have the thing start doing its thing at 1AM and leave us the hell alone during the day
01:26
<&ToxicFrog>
Reiv: I certainly would not object to scheduled downloading, but local game streaming is something I've wanted for years.
01:26
<&ToxicFrog>
And all of the existing solutions (a) suck (b) are proprietary (c) are expensive and (d) suck.
01:26
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: So you can game on one machine and Symbol can watch on another?
01:26
<&ToxicFrog>
Er
01:26
<&ToxicFrog>
So I can game on the laptop, using the power of Durandal to play games that the laptop is wholly incapable of actually running
01:27
<@Reiv>
... oho
01:27
<&McMartin>
Yeah, this streaming is the other direction from LPs.
01:27
<@Reiv>
Oh that /will/ be shiny.
01:27
<@Reiv>
... with that I can build a gamerig and skip the screen.
01:27
<@Reiv>
I mean I won't, but I could~
01:27
<&ToxicFrog>
Yeah, this is not streaming as in "streaming the game video to someone else"
01:27
<&ToxicFrog>
It's streaming as in OnLive.
01:27
< Syka>
but local! :D
01:27
<&ToxicFrog>
Run the game on one machine, but display it and get input from another.
01:28
< Syka>
the nvidia shield does that too
01:28
<@Reiv>
Shiny.
01:28
<&ToxicFrog>
Yes, but the Shield requires you to have a recent nV video card and the Shield client hardware.
01:28
< Syka>
I think that people are realising that you're not going to get good power out of anything small
01:28
<&ToxicFrog>
Fuck that noise, this is doable entirely in software.
01:28
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: the former isn't a problem, and the latter is why you buy the shield anyway :p
01:28
<&McMartin>
TF: Except here it was eleven years ago, not three, and we noticed because converting it to something smaller and writing in some audio codecs was a major early goal.
01:29
<&ToxicFrog>
Syka: it is if you don't have any nV hardware and don't feel like dropping several hundred on an inferior graphics card just for local streaming.
01:29
<&ToxicFrog>
Or if, say, you want to stream the game to a laptop rather than nV's weird handheld console thinger.
01:30
< Syka>
man, that reminds me
01:30
< Syka>
I need to shove a nv gpu in my microserver
01:30
<&ToxicFrog>
Reiv: all that said, yes, one immediate benefit of this is that I could use Durandal's hardware for gaming while Symbol uses its screen for watching things.
01:30
< Syka>
for delicious hdmi audio
01:31
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: Will Durandals hardware cheerfully run Youtubes?
01:31
<&ToxicFrog>
....yes?
01:31
<@Reiv>
While, you know, gaming full out
01:32
<&ToxicFrog>
Also, the things she's watching are H.264 videos streamed from Orias over the local network, not youtube.
01:35
<&ToxicFrog>
As long as I'm not playing something super recent it should be fine.
01:35
<@Reiv>
Nice.
01:35
<@Reiv>
Very, very nice.
01:35
<&ToxicFrog>
Since my main gaming taste at the moment is Perfect Dark...
01:35
<@Reiv>
hm.
01:35
<@Reiv>
The opposite is true, too I guess
01:35
<@Reiv>
Will this Steam Streaming let you stream video in the other direction?
01:35
<@Reiv>
That'd be nice.
01:35
<&ToxicFrog>
What?
01:36
<@Reiv>
Instead of streaming my games from Orias to PC
01:36
<@Reiv>
Can I stream my *movies* from Orias to PC
01:36
<@Reiv>
Using the SteamThingy.
01:37
< Syka>
...VLC?
01:37
<&ToxicFrog>
What
01:37
<&ToxicFrog>
No, that's not how it works, on several counts
01:38
<&ToxicFrog>
Steam gaming streaming is from the PC on which you would normally play games to another device.
01:38
<&McMartin>
It's closer to RDP than VLC.
01:38
<&ToxicFrog>
You start Steam or SteamOS on your laptop or HTPC or the like, and it commandeers the gaming machine, if it's on, to do the actual rendering and stuff.
01:38
< Syka>
i'm talking movie streaming
01:38
< Syka>
re: vlc
01:38
< Syka>
because y'
01:38
< Syka>
know, we can do that, right now
01:38
< Syka>
on pretty much anything
01:39
<@Reiv>
Perhaps I should rephrase.
01:39
<@Reiv>
I wonder if SteamOS will let us play with such toys without having to run a dozen different apps for each use case.
01:39
<&ToxicFrog>
In the case of my home network, that would mean the games run on Durandal and display on Thoth or Isis. Orias - being a system with no screen, no graphics card, and running the wrong OS - doesn't, and can't, get involved.
01:40
<&ToxicFrog>
So...playing video files on the gaming machine and streaming them to the steamOS endpoint?
01:40
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: Right.
01:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Unknown. Probably not. What's the use case? Anything with enough beef to decode the stream from Steam can decode the actual video file.
01:41
<&ToxicFrog>
Also, video playback in Steam in general is famously a total clusterfuck, so I'm not sure I'd trust them to get it right in any case~
01:41
<@Reiv>
Do you think they'll package VLC with SteamOS?~
01:43
<&ToxicFrog>
(also, we already have dozens of good solutions for local media streaming. We don't have shit for local game streaming.)
01:47
<@Reiv>
Idly: Does this imply that the 'Steambox' solution we have at last is a bit of hardware in the realm of OUYA rather than Xbone, and then stream from your main gaming rig?
01:47
<@Reiv>
(OUYA itself can die in a fire, of course)
01:51
<&ToxicFrog>
Doubtful. From what I've read of the Steambox, it's meant to be capable of heavyweight gaming whether the user already has a gaming machine or not.
01:51
<&ToxicFrog>
This is a feature they are adding to all Steam clients and will probably be more useful to people who have an existing gaming machine and don't want to drop $$$ on a steambox just to play their PC games on the TV - but might have a spare laptop.
01:53
<@Reiv>
Tres shiny.
01:53
<@Reiv>
Best part about it is that it will make the cheapo PC I picked up at work *even better*
01:53
<@Reiv>
I just hope SteamOS has a light footprint.
01:54 * McMartin unleashes the GIT PUSHO RIGIN MASTER of 200 MB
01:54
<@Reiv>
Given that they intend it to be able to run on said 'spare laptop' it should do it, I hope.
01:54
<&ToxicFrog>
I have no idea if that's actually something they intend!
01:54
<&ToxicFrog>
All they've said is that it will be free, linux based, and have features X Y Z.
01:55
<@Reiv>
Yeah. It'll be interesting.
01:55
<@Reiv>
I do so hope they keep it lightweight; I can't really imagine SteamOS taking off otherwise. We already have heavyweight OSes - they're, uh, Windows, linux, and mac~
01:57
<&ToxicFrog>
Yeah, I mean, I suspect it'll be a minimal Linux system that boots straight into Steam Big Picture Mode.
01:57
<&ToxicFrog>
But they haven't said.
01:59
<@Reiv>
So long as it will also stream video, somehow (VLC is fine), I will be a very happy man.
01:59
<&McMartin>
That's on the feature list
02:01 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
02:02 * Derakon eyes his email.
02:02
<&Derakon>
I have a message from someone who "stumbled onto your Bitbucket profile and saw that you created the repo "pyrel," <insert summary of Pyrel C&P'd from the repo page>"
02:03
<&Derakon>
"Based on your interest in Python, I wanted to see if you would be interested in yadda yadda recruiter spiel"
02:07
<&ToxicFrog>
This has been A Thing for a while now. They scrape github too.
02:08
<&ToxicFrog>
This occasionally has hilarious results when the repo is things like "my dotfiles" or "my godawful student project erected here as a terrible warning to others"
02:08
<&Derakon>
Heh.
02:13
< [R]>
Nice
02:17 * celticminstrel just had 404 unread messages in here.
02:19
<@celticminstrel>
I'm assuming this is spam you're discussing?
02:31
<&Derakon>
CM: more like poorly-targeted headhunting.
02:32
< Syka>
man
02:32
< Syka>
diffs are sometimes so freakin weird
02:32
< Syka>
this one section has two additions and one removal
02:33
< Syka>
they're all newlines, right next to each other???
02:33
<&Derakon>
Ahh, but you see, they're different newlines!
02:33
< Syka>
fucking newlines
02:33
< Syka>
what are they good for
02:39
<@celticminstrel>
Ah.
02:46 * iospace gives Syka a unicable
02:46
<@iospace>
^_^
02:49 * Syka beats iospace to death with it
02:49
< Syka>
D:<
02:49
<@iospace>
D:
02:49
< Syka>
introducing hdmi-to-corpse
02:50
<@iospace>
>:
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03:25
< [R]>
<Ius> They need a modern remake of Tic-Tac-Toe, where all the Xs and Os level up and gain new skills and weapons <Ius> with new DLC maps <Ius> and for $.99 you can buy an extra move
03:26
<&McMartin>
OK, time to convert a couple dozen SVN revision numbers into git tags
03:37
<&McMartin>
But it does look at least at first like the push was successful!
03:38
<@celticminstrel>
...
03:38
<@celticminstrel>
What is a "unicable" anyway.
03:40
< Syka>
celticminstrel: it's a thing from some articles I wrote
03:40
< Syka>
celticminstrel: http://reddrgn.net/tidbits/files/esp/4.jpg
03:42
< Syka>
or rather, a thing I was making fun of in some article I wrote
03:44
<@celticminstrel>
Ah.
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05:56 ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy
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07:36
< Xon>
> Total DISK READ: 0.00 B/s | Total DISK WRITE: 4.54 M/s
07:36
< Xon>
> TID PRIO USER DISK READ DISK WRITE SWAPIN IO> COMMAND
07:36
< Xon>
> 20208 be/3 root 0.00 B/s 0.00 B/s 0.00 % 88.96 % [jbd2/dm-0-8]
07:36
< Xon>
Not something I want to see on a DB server :(
07:37
<@Alek>
eep
07:38
< Xon>
sorting by DISK WRITE has only about 200kb/s of disk throughput showing up
08:01 Azash [ap@Nightstar-339920e6.net] has quit [Operation timed out]
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08:40 You're now known as TheWatcher
08:52
<@froztbyte>
RichyB: not everything has xz yet
08:52
<@froztbyte>
but yeah, xz is definitely nicer
09:07 Kindamoody|out [Kindamoody@Nightstar-05577424.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Operation timed out]
09:17 Kindamoody|autojoin [Kindamoody@Nightstar-05577424.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code
09:23
<&McMartin>
Woot
09:23 * McMartin successfully reads a full sprite specification out of his JSON spec file.
09:23
<@froztbyte>
haha
09:23
<~Vornicus>
Victory
09:24
<&McMartin>
Once I get the optional arguments in, and object *unloading*, and some refactoring of the API that has been made clear is necessary...
09:24
<&McMartin>
... I can start tackling the hardest problem in the project, which I'm still not wholly sure how to solve. -_-
09:25
<@froztbyte>
isn't there a rule which says that if you leave that hardest part for last, you'll end up changing the last 10 things before it as well?
09:25
<@froztbyte>
just because murphy's a dick
09:25
<&McMartin>
This is a lot more dispersed than that, so, no
09:25
<&McMartin>
Five components ago will not survive
09:25
<&McMartin>
These four are golden though
09:25
<@froztbyte>
hehe
09:27
<&McMartin>
These will need to be heavily reworked to let them gain their full power
09:27
<&McMartin>
which, uh, wasn't in the spec
09:29
<@froztbyte>
haha
09:29
<&McMartin>
But it's become pretty clear that Monocle ought to export a relatively generic JSON query interface.
09:30
<&McMartin>
That way instead of having things like UQM's endless shitloads of string tables and color maps and animation specs, I can just have a "data" resource type that is A JSON Object.
09:30
<&McMartin>
(In addition to knowing how to parse up stuff for sound, music, sprites, etc.)
09:31
<&McMartin>
I'd like to do that without also having to expose the red-black trees I'm using for maps, though. I think I can do this thing without too much trouble.
09:31
<&McMartin>
(While not *replacing* them, because other Monocle internals need access to it. But it won't be exported.)
09:32
<@froztbyte>
mmmmmmmmm
09:32
<@froztbyte>
I'm speaking from a position of lack of information here, but isn't that the XML trap?
09:33
<&McMartin>
Monocle's core system will never rely on the Data resource type.
09:33
<&McMartin>
that's the escape hatch for whatever it is you happen to need that I didn't think of. ;-)
09:33
<@froztbyte>
ah
09:34
<&McMartin>
(Actually, there are two escape hatches. There's that, for semistructured data, and then there's "raw", for "just give me an mmaped file"
09:34
<&McMartin>
)
09:34
<&McMartin>
Strictly speaking, raw is enough, but, well, I've got a whole JSON library here, I shouldn't really be bogarting it.
09:37
<&jerith>
McMartin: Is this your own JSON library?
09:39
<&McMartin>
It is. All other ones that would be acceptable were C++-based and thus weren't acceptable.
09:40
<&McMartin>
If you're using a language with native support, then loading supplementary JSON as raw data and parsing that is probably preferable, though.
09:42
<&McMartin>
It is also my own red-black tree libarary
09:42
<&McMartin>
Project Monocle is also in large part Project Not Invented Here
09:43
<&McMartin>
But frankly parsing JSON is easier than RB Trees.
09:44
<&jerith>
This kind of project is one of the few cases where rolling your own is often better than using third-party libraries.
09:46
<&McMartin>
Also, one of the things I roundly loathe is trying to get a project up and running and spending 14 hours tracking down and configuring all its dependencies
09:46
<&McMartin>
THIS IS NOT THE GLORIOUS FUTURE OF CODE REUSE
09:46
< [R]>
Heh
09:46
<@TheWatcher>
^--
09:46
< [R]>
I remember compiling pacman 3.x, finding its two dependancies was a bitch
09:47
< [R]>
Getting them to compile after wasn't fun either.
09:47
<&jerith>
McMartin: Yes, that was my point.
09:47
< [R]>
Then realizing that one became incompatable with pacman (though in a minor way)...
09:53
<&McMartin>
Especially since...
09:53
<&McMartin>
477 1417 12899 tree.c
09:53
<&McMartin>
658 2071 17726 json.c
10:30 AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has joined #code
10:50
<~Vornicus>
Man. Lua json work is so much easier when you realize a structure can become an object with methods in one builtin call.
10:51
<~Vornicus>
Load the data, setmetatable(), Done.
11:06
< AnnoDomini>
C. I want to make an array of strings. array[index][length] or array[length][index]?
11:06
<~Vornicus>
The former.
11:08
< AnnoDomini>
How do I then feed it into snprintf? As array[index], array[index][], or?
11:08
<~Vornicus>
array[index].
11:08
< AnnoDomini>
OK. Thank you!
11:11
<~Vornicus>
Make sure of course that 'length' is actually the length of the longest string you hope, in your most vivid fever dreams, to store, Plus One.
11:15
< AnnoDomini>
Hmm. If snprintf is fed the same number as was used to make the array's length, it will be one too much, yes?
11:16
<~Vornicus>
I haven't used snprintf (I haven't done string BS in C since, um. Ever), so Idunno
11:18
< AnnoDomini>
I'll play it safe and make the array one larger.
11:19
< AnnoDomini>
Ah, actually, it'll work right.
11:20
< AnnoDomini>
snprintf reserves a byte for \0.
11:32 Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out]
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11:45 AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
12:11 * AnnoDomini scavenges a slightly worn but digital-input-capable monitor and a wireless keyboard from home, finds the problem with his raspi, manages to get logged in via SSH.
12:14 himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
12:24
< AnnoDomini>
Those poor undergrads. They will have to find a new repository for free study material, once the server I have it hosted on gets downed.
12:27 himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code
12:27 mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ
12:31
<@TheWatcher>
?
12:35
< AnnoDomini>
During my studies I had a habit of putting up my projects, reports, assignments, tests with marked answers, etc on a website sitting on a server that a buddy from high school gave me an account on.
12:36
< AnnoDomini>
This became a go-to place for people who wanted to get such data.
12:38
< AnnoDomini>
I think my custom VHDL package (useless for everything but a specific assignment, but #included into every project since) is still used by undergrands who don't understand its function, just blindly submitting my old solutions in hopes of passing.
12:38
< AnnoDomini>
One of the VHDL teachers, with whom I was on friendly terms, told me that he asks these people "what does this do?" for lulz.
12:42
< AnnoDomini>
Now my buddy is shutting down the server. It's been like 10 years since it went up and the hardware is starting to be too worn.
12:43
<@froztbyte>
heresy
12:43
<@froztbyte>
just replace and transport the data!
12:43
<@froztbyte>
replace hw*
12:45
< AnnoDomini>
But now I'm building my own server on my raspi!
12:48 * AnnoDomini is wondering how to do this.
13:01
<@TheWatcher>
sudo apt-get install apache2 ?
13:02 * TheWatcher wonders if steve put the lab notes online
13:02
<@TheWatcher>
https://github.com/stevepettifer/COMP101/blob/master/rpi2.tex#L274 - might be of some help
13:03
< AnnoDomini>
I've got a no-ip.org address to go with this, and it now redirects to my router's web admin.
13:03
< AnnoDomini>
I'm not sure I want that.
13:03
<@TheWatcher>
No, you don't
13:03
< AnnoDomini>
I would like external requests to go to my raspi, while internal (from the LAN) to go to the router's page.
13:04
<@TheWatcher>
you need to set up port forwarding on your router to send incoming connections from the internet on port 80 and 443 to your pi
13:05
<@froztbyte>
TheWatcher: you're a bad person
13:05
<@froztbyte>
(for apache)
13:06
< AnnoDomini>
So, apache2 and vsftpd?
13:06
<@TheWatcher>
*sigh*
13:06
<@TheWatcher>
Fine, he could use nginx instead
13:07
<@froztbyte>
AnnoDomini: apache is a webserver, vsftpd is an ftp daemon
13:07
< AnnoDomini>
I already got no-ip's DNS gizmo, so I don't need bind9?
13:07
<@froztbyte>
TheWatcher: apache basically eats a raspi up
13:07
< AnnoDomini>
Eats it up?
13:07
<@froztbyte>
too heavy
13:07
<@froztbyte>
and the raspi isn't that strong
13:07
<@froztbyte>
so nginx or lighttpd are probably more favourable for that
13:08
<@froztbyte>
and yes, you don't need bind9
13:08
<@froztbyte>
both for this particular case, and in general
13:08
<@froztbyte>
people should use pdns instead :)
13:08
<@froztbyte>
dnsmasq is fairly nice too
13:08
<@froztbyte>
(yes, I hate most "popular" software choices, because I believe them all to be too damned cargo cult with little evidence in favour)
13:12 * TheWatcher just uses apache because he knows it pretty much inside out these days
13:21
< AnnoDomini>
Grr. This router appears to not implement anything I put in its configuration, but where's the save & restart button?
13:32
< Xon>
froztbyte, well if you slim down apache and put it a diet (aka strip out most of the default modules), uses threaded-workers and fastcgi to communicate to application server it's about as light as nginx
13:32
< Xon>
but it is likely much easier to start with a sane config and add what you need =p
13:33
<@froztbyte>
Xon: by the time you've spent doing all that, you could have finished learning the basics of another thing *and* gone outside to play frisbee
13:33
< Xon>
yup!
13:33
<@froztbyte>
spent effort*
13:33
<@froztbyte>
I can type, I promise
13:36
< Xon>
my next hobby project will be to retro-fit php-fpm into pfsense's usage of php-cli. I want to get more life out of this amd 400mhz box =p
13:37
< Xon>
doesn't look to be /too/ hard
13:37
< Xon>
VMs make this stuff so much easier to practice with =p
13:38 celmin|Zzzzzz [celticminst@Nightstar-5d0169f9.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
13:38 * TheWatcher has been spoilt by the 64 core, 1TB RAM servers he's got in work now
13:39
< Xon>
lol
13:39 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d0169f9.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code
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13:39
< Xon>
the issue I have @ work is too many of the VMs are on /shit/ storage
13:39
< Xon>
(at home all my VMs are on sata3 SSDs)
13:44
<@Azash>
"Debugging code you've never seen before. (i.imgur.com)" http://i.imgur.com/Kf9te.jpg
13:56
<@froztbyte>
Xon: shouldn't be too hard
14:13 * AnnoDomini verifies that his custom-port sshd and web server work... on the LAN.
14:14
< AnnoDomini>
I can't seem to make things work out at all via the domain name.
14:16
<&ToxicFrog>
Port forwarding?
14:18
< AnnoDomini>
I'm trying that but this router makes everything difficult.
14:19
< AnnoDomini>
I don't know how to make it actually do what I'm setting up.
15:12
<@TheWatcher>
Voodoo *nods sagely*
15:16
< AnnoDomini>
No matter what I set it always seems to do one of two: a) Showing the router admin pages on the no-ip.org address. b) Not showing anything on the no-ip.org address.
15:16
< AnnoDomini>
I have internet, the raspi has internet.
15:16
< AnnoDomini>
I can talk to the raspi's servers on the LAN.
15:20 Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
15:25 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
16:06 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
16:13
<&ToxicFrog>
AnnoDomini: what router is it?
16:15
< AnnoDomini>
ZTE Livebox FTTH v2.
16:46 Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel
17:30 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d0169f9.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
17:52
<&ToxicFrog>
"You go to work hung-over, and you realize that, during a drunken conference call, you told your boss that your processor has 32 registers when it only has 8, but then you realize THAT YOU CAN TOTALLY LIE ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PHYSICAL REGISTERS, and you invent a crazy hardware mapping scheme from virtual registers to physical ones,
17:52
<&ToxicFrog>
and at this point, you start seducing the spouses of the compiler team, because its pretty clear that compilers are a thing of the past, and the next generation of processors will run English-level pseudocode directly."
17:53
< [R]>
lolwut
17:53
<@Tamber>
Does this come from a company starting with 'I'?
17:53
<&ToxicFrog>
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf
17:53
<@Tamber>
(...I suspect *not*, but it was the first thing I thought.)
17:55
<&ToxicFrog>
"John was terrified by the collapse of the parallelism bubble, and he quickly discarded his plans for a 743-core processor that was dubbed The Hydra of Destiny and whose abstract Platonic ideal was briefly the third-best chess player in Gary, Indiana."
17:56
<@Tamber>
*snrk*
17:56
< RichyB>
ToxicFrog, I like where the story ends up. Now users yell at anything that takes more than 4% CPU. :)
17:56
<@Azash>
http://www.popularresistance.org/new-intel-based-pcs-permanently-hackable/
17:57 * Azash makes spooky noises
18:00
< ErikMesoy>
"is like asking Godzilla to prevent Mega-Godzilla from terrorizing Japan. THIS DOES NOT LEAD TO RISING PROPERTY VALUES IN TOKYO."
18:02
< [R]>
Wait, is that dude just bitching that an IT administration feature does exactly as advertised?
18:03
< [R]>
... okay the 3g thing's a little extreme
18:03
< ErikMesoy>
I have no idea what he's bitching about, but it's funny.
18:03
< [R]>
But holy fuck Frank, faraday cages.
18:04
< [R]>
For. A. Day. Cages.
18:04
< [R]>
(One of my teachers had a weird accent)
18:04
<@Azash>
[R]: Also when discussed #elsewhere <@mortaneous> Politik: it only works if it's been enabled in BIOS and has been properly provisioned, it's a PITA to set up
18:05
< [R]>
Aww
18:05
< [R]>
That's slightly disappointing
18:05
< [R]>
(The PITA part)
18:06
< [R]>
"Even a faraday bag wont protect you. The Core vPro processor comes with phantom ethernet that will route signals right through your faraday bag."
18:06
<@Tamber>
*giggle*
18:06
< [R]>
FUCK YOU IN THE ASS SMART QUOTES
18:06
< [R]>
FUCK YOU. IN THE. ASS.
18:07
< ErikMesoy>
FUCK YOU IN THE SMART-ASS QUOTES.
18:07
< [R]>
Is that just like extreme oral, or fetishized oral?
18:10
< ErikMesoy>
It's like reverse safe words. Witty things you say when you want to have sex.
18:12
<@froztbyte>
smart quotes?
18:12
<@froztbyte>
that's a PHP thing, right?
18:13
<@froztbyte>
oh
18:13
<@froztbyte>
no, php's thing is that other bullshit
18:13
<@froztbyte>
[R]: why so much rage?
18:17
< [R]>
froztbyte: because they fuck so many things up. And no, it's an MS thing.
18:17
< [R]>
That quote I dropped has them in it.
18:17
<@froztbyte>
[R]: fix your shell/terminal/client
18:18
<@Tamber>
o.ô
18:18
< [R]>
They render correctly, they're just ugly and remind me of the hellish fixes one has to do to handle them sometimes.
18:19
< ErikMesoy>
The smart quotes around "phantom ethernet" rendered fine here
18:19
< AnnoDomini>
Hmm. Return status 3 is a division by zero, right?
18:20 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
18:21
<@froztbyte>
those are standardized?
18:22
< [R]>
# ./a.out ; echo $?
18:22
< [R]>
Floating point exception
18:22
< [R]>
136
18:22
< [R]>
AnnoDomini: ^
18:22
< [R]>
(Linux)
18:22
< AnnoDomini>
This is Windows.
18:22
< AnnoDomini>
But I was operating on floats.
19:11
<@gnolam>
<[R]> froztbyte: because they fuck so many things up. And no, it's an MS thing.
19:11
<@gnolam>
Wut.
19:15
< [R]>
Primarily an MS thing.
19:16
< [R]>
It's fine for printed media, but when you encounter that in data meant to be machine processed it's annoying as fuck.
19:18
<@froztbyte>
eh. sounds like mountains of moleheaps
19:18
<@froztbyte>
annoying and shitty, perhaps, but I've seen worse data
19:18
<@froztbyte>
that said, have a lol: https://github.com/BitchX
19:19
< [R]>
... he maintains... 4 respositories for the same program?
19:21
<@froztbyte>
who needs branches!
19:22
< jeroud>
The real issue with "smart quotes" is that a bunch of tools automatically replace normal quotes with them and now you have all sorts of unexpected encoding issues.
19:23
< [R]>
http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=756 and other reasons yeah
19:23
< ErikMesoy>
The most basic one, IME, being that you can't do find-and-replace.
19:24
<@Tamber>
Anything described as "Smart ${X}" automatically sounds like trouble, to me.
19:24
< jeroud>
The usual way they arrive is people copying text out of word processors.
19:25
< [R]>
Like Smarty (it had moronic capitalization that I forget now). "Hey guys, let's completely replicate a language feature in its own project."
19:26
< [R]>
On a more related note "Magic ${X}" features are always Chatoic Evil too. Especially PHP's Magic Quotes.
19:27 * TheWatcher takes the opportunity to, one again, express his burning, undying hatred of character encoding bullshit
19:28
<@TheWatcher>
(So much hate)
19:30
< jeroud>
Very.
19:30 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
19:31
< jeroud>
And telcos all get it so wrong all the time.
19:32 Kindamoody|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody
19:33 mode/#code [+o Kindamoody] by ChanServ
19:38
<@gnolam>
It's not an MS thing. It's a word processor and annoying comment system thing.
19:47 * TheWatcher[afk] notes that, of all the problems he's had with CODICIL WINTER HILL, the worst ones have been caused by people copying and pasting from random word docs, pdfs, mayan inscriptions and other shit, and then characters showing up wrong as a result - made no easier by the fact that some sites in work persistently use Latin-1
19:59
< [R]>
Latin-1? It's 1992 still?
19:59
< ErikMesoy>
September 1992, even
20:01
< [R]>
*snerk*
20:04
<@Tamber>
1993, surely?
20:04
<@Tamber>
There's far too many idiots about for it to be the glorious days of 1992.
20:04
<@Tamber>
:p
20:05
< jeroud>
[R]: Latin-1 is still standard in *so* *many* *places*.
20:06
< jeroud>
Also, a lot of people actually mean latin-1 when they say ASCII.
20:06
< ErikMesoy>
Oh, right, misremembered when Eternal September was.
20:07 * ErikMesoy checks the date. 7329th of September, 1993.
20:09 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
20:24
<@iospace>
:P
20:29
< ErikMesoy>
Being like a Pharisee, would that be "Phariseeism" or "Pharisaism"? (Can't think of a better place to ask, since I figure coders are the sort of people habituated to caring about minor differences. :) )
20:34
< AnnoDomini>
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pharisaism
20:40
<&McMartin>
"Pharasaic" sounds right to me
20:53 himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
21:06 himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code
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21:14 * AnnoDomini fights through a Google Apps password recovery.
21:14
< AnnoDomini>
Bloody hell.
21:14
< AnnoDomini>
It's a bother because by now I have three Google accounts, all different.
21:14
< AnnoDomini>
And they got confused during the recovery.
21:15
<@froztbyte>
lulz
21:15
<@froztbyte>
yes
21:16
<@froztbyte>
if you ever need to juggle anything specific with a given account, and you have the multi-account stuff on
21:16
<@froztbyte>
just open a new browser instance or something
21:16
< RichyB>
This is what I use porn mode in browsers for now.
21:16
< RichyB>
Logging in twice to the same app with different credentials.
21:16
< RichyB>
*private browsing mode
21:16
<&jerith>
Likewise.
21:17
<&jerith>
Also my internet banking and such.
21:21 You're now known as TheWatcher
21:34
<@gnolam>
ErikMesoy: You know, -phari-C should be GCC's strict standards compliance option instead of -pedantic...
21:35 * ErikMesoy upvotes +1 funny
21:35
<@Alek>
hahaha
21:55 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d0169f9.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code
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22:49
<@froztbyte>
gnolam: "let my o-files gooooooo!" ?
22:56 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
23:55 Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
23:55 mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ
--- Log closed Wed Sep 25 00:00:23 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 24 Sep 2013< code.20130923.log - code.20130925.log >

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